nixluva wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:My fear is that caldron gets bulk minutes and fails to get the team involved .. His lack of penetration and being able to pass the ball on the move really puts the team to sleep and creates stagnation in the offense(everyone stand around and watch Melo... We will be destined for another 15 win season if our pg fails to get the team involved . It just creates a watch Melo play and shoot empty jumper type of game plan ....

this is why grant needs to take over the rains at pg he's a pass first pg who d's up and can penetrate and dish also a proven leader.

I thought this thread was about the Knicks who the **** cares about jr and shump there both brick city cuckers shump couldn't penetrate to save his life and his defense was extremely over rated. And jr is always going to crumble when the spotlight is on him... I think I speak for 98% of fans by saying thank god there gone.

The idea that Jose isn't an excellent passer seems to go against everything he's done as a PG. Dude was just not healthy last year and also never got into top form. People are basing their opinions on him based on flawed information. Just months before his Knicks season he was doing things like this.

We ALL want to see Jerian become the starter. He has more physical talent than Jose overall. Jose has more experience and is a better shooter. Having BOTH playing well will make the Knicks a very good team and it's one of the reasons I believe they'll be a playoff team. Jose won't have to log tons of minutes anymore with Jerian carrying some of the load and neither should be overextended.

Totally agree that caldron was not himself last year..but Even in that video minus one play where he goes in for a lay up ... He really has problems penetrating and creating for others . He is good at passing when there are off the ball screens. But most of his passing is made from the three point line extended.. And the passes are one and done. He also has issues moving off the ball.

With that said he is a excellent shooter . I think he needs to move to the two position . He's defiantly tall enough at 6'5... His defense made me want Felton back which is disgusting . He might have a easier time keeping bigger 2 guards in front of him then speedy pg's

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:There is a reoccurring theme that getting rid of JR and Shump was essentially what held us back..I think we had bigger problems that that..But they are now gone..We should be winning now I hope..

you expect them to win 31 games, if i recall.. that isn't winning, that's simply getting better.

Phil thought we would make the playoffs last year..I didn't...If Phil is building a team that wins 17 or 30 games when he thinks he is actually fielding a playoff team then changes needs to be made correct?

If you are spending every penny of cap space on free agents, you are trying to win..

it was his first year and a learning curve is involved. he overreached in his playoff assumption, and when he realized he did, he eventually took ownership of that.

he hasn't made and isn't going to make any sort of prediction other than to say they will be improved and have a chance to be a good team. that translates to winning more games, probably within the range many have been speaking about, including yourself.

it sounds like you are waiting for him to make the same kind of prediction so he can set himself up for looking like a fool. i don't think he is going to give you that opportunity.

they will win between 29-41 games and that should be acceptable to all but the haters.

It should be fun watching you straddle the line of expecting Melo to win the East with this team and Phil giving another year's pass as he figures out how to win 30 games in his sophomore year...

no straddle now or in the future. it's september. lets see a couple of preseason games before we start narrowing the wins and losses prediction. meantime it should be a hoot seeing you crapping on the new players in game threads. who are you targeting?

I always root for Knick players and the team to succeed..I do however, recognize scrubs..I'm more of the realist ilk...After Melo there is a big drop off in talent and our record will reflect that..Phil coaching the team from the GM box doesn't help...Fisher being inadequate is a non starter but onward...Triangle rules!!

My original defense of JR was people like yourself expecting peak playoff performance on a blown out knee while he was here...Others were just making up timeline of events which proved untrue...JR has done enough shet in his life where things don't need to be made up or tp expect unrealistic performance during an injury..His bad choices are enough..I'm sure u guys have enough fuel to run on the legit stuff he can be blamed for...

a realist would acknowledge that melo has been grossly overpaid for what he brings to the court.. but never mind about that. i laid out why the knicks will win a minimum of 29 games. if melo is good then that is another 7-8 games. if melo is bad then another 3-4 games.

i have no idea how the good folks and razor-sharp basketball minds at espn came to their conclusion, but since you rely on what others have to say rather than doing your own reasoning and analysis there is no use in calling yourself a realist or mouthing off about scrubs..

lets not talk about jr smith anymore. he has taken his soft-azz game and pea-brain to cleveland where he can hinder lebron's quest for another title....

As compared to whom..Gallo is making 17..DJordan is making 20?..Robin Lopez s making 13/14..Bosh is making 22...Amare, your boy, who brought a lot less, was making more than Melo...

no.

gallo's contract amortizes at 15.5 over the next 3 seasons. is he being overpaid? yes, and i have acknowledged as much a couple of times.. but we both know you have an issue with selective memory.

the others you mentioned are also being overpaid, but this is part of the hysteria of the marketplace... except for one big difference: melo is a known quantity over 30 who refused to take a discount to help his own cause, while gallinari and the others you mentioned have not yet reached their primes or met the potential that their respective front offices believe they can achieve. gallinari is still being paid more than he deserves-- now why can't you say the same about melo?

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:There is a reoccurring theme that getting rid of JR and Shump was essentially what held us back..I think we had bigger problems that that..But they are now gone..We should be winning now I hope..

you expect them to win 31 games, if i recall.. that isn't winning, that's simply getting better.

Phil thought we would make the playoffs last year..I didn't...If Phil is building a team that wins 17 or 30 games when he thinks he is actually fielding a playoff team then changes needs to be made correct?

If you are spending every penny of cap space on free agents, you are trying to win..

it was his first year and a learning curve is involved. he overreached in his playoff assumption, and when he realized he did, he eventually took ownership of that.

he hasn't made and isn't going to make any sort of prediction other than to say they will be improved and have a chance to be a good team. that translates to winning more games, probably within the range many have been speaking about, including yourself.

it sounds like you are waiting for him to make the same kind of prediction so he can set himself up for looking like a fool. i don't think he is going to give you that opportunity.

they will win between 29-41 games and that should be acceptable to all but the haters.

It should be fun watching you straddle the line of expecting Melo to win the East with this team and Phil giving another year's pass as he figures out how to win 30 games in his sophomore year...

no straddle now or in the future. it's september. lets see a couple of preseason games before we start narrowing the wins and losses prediction. meantime it should be a hoot seeing you crapping on the new players in game threads. who are you targeting?

I always root for Knick players and the team to succeed..I do however, recognize scrubs..I'm more of the realist ilk...After Melo there is a big drop off in talent and our record will reflect that..Phil coaching the team from the GM box doesn't help...Fisher being inadequate is a non starter but onward...Triangle rules!!

My original defense of JR was people like yourself expecting peak playoff performance on a blown out knee while he was here...Others were just making up timeline of events which proved untrue...JR has done enough shet in his life where things don't need to be made up or tp expect unrealistic performance during an injury..His bad choices are enough..I'm sure u guys have enough fuel to run on the legit stuff he can be blamed for...

a realist would acknowledge that melo has been grossly overpaid for what he brings to the court.. but never mind about that. i laid out why the knicks will win a minimum of 29 games. if melo is good then that is another 7-8 games. if melo is bad then another 3-4 games.

i have no idea how the good folks and razor-sharp basketball minds at espn came to their conclusion, but since you rely on what others have to say rather than doing your own reasoning and analysis there is no use in calling yourself a realist or mouthing off about scrubs..

lets not talk about jr smith anymore. he has taken his soft-azz game and pea-brain to cleveland where he can hinder lebron's quest for another title....

As compared to whom..Gallo is making 17..DJordan is making 20?..Robin Lopez s making 13/14..Bosh is making 22...Amare, your boy, who brought a lot less, was making more than Melo...

no.

gallo's contract amortizes at 15.5 over the next 3 seasons. is he being overpaid? yes, and i have acknowledged as much a couple of times.. but we both know you have an issue with selective memory.

the others you mentioned are also being overpaid, but this is part of the hysteria of the marketplace... except for one big difference: melo is a known quantity over 30 who refused to take a discount to help his own cause, while gallinari and the others you mentioned have not yet reached their primes or met the potential that their respective front offices believe they can achieve. gallinari is still being paid more than he deserves-- now why can't you say the same about melo?

If everyone is being overpaid then the problem is you...You need to adjust to the market...The Garden has been sold out since Melo got here...MSG increase the prices on commercials during games..Secondary prices of Knick tickets plummet after last year all star game...Melo was getting more search hits on ESPN.com during baseball season, this summer, than anyone in sports...You have no clue what his value is...

you keep changing the narrative to justify his salary. "it's a business" sure it is. but it's also about winning championships, or at least making a conference finals. that is not just "business" it is "success" and "winning."

when i talk about being overpaid it is not azzes in seats which is where you go every stinking time, it's about achieving something significant, like the nba final four.

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:There is a reoccurring theme that getting rid of JR and Shump was essentially what held us back..I think we had bigger problems that that..But they are now gone..We should be winning now I hope..

you expect them to win 31 games, if i recall.. that isn't winning, that's simply getting better.

Phil thought we would make the playoffs last year..I didn't...If Phil is building a team that wins 17 or 30 games when he thinks he is actually fielding a playoff team then changes needs to be made correct?

If you are spending every penny of cap space on free agents, you are trying to win..

it was his first year and a learning curve is involved. he overreached in his playoff assumption, and when he realized he did, he eventually took ownership of that.

he hasn't made and isn't going to make any sort of prediction other than to say they will be improved and have a chance to be a good team. that translates to winning more games, probably within the range many have been speaking about, including yourself.

it sounds like you are waiting for him to make the same kind of prediction so he can set himself up for looking like a fool. i don't think he is going to give you that opportunity.

they will win between 29-41 games and that should be acceptable to all but the haters.

It should be fun watching you straddle the line of expecting Melo to win the East with this team and Phil giving another year's pass as he figures out how to win 30 games in his sophomore year...

no straddle now or in the future. it's september. lets see a couple of preseason games before we start narrowing the wins and losses prediction. meantime it should be a hoot seeing you crapping on the new players in game threads. who are you targeting?

I always root for Knick players and the team to succeed..I do however, recognize scrubs..I'm more of the realist ilk...After Melo there is a big drop off in talent and our record will reflect that..Phil coaching the team from the GM box doesn't help...Fisher being inadequate is a non starter but onward...Triangle rules!!

My original defense of JR was people like yourself expecting peak playoff performance on a blown out knee while he was here...Others were just making up timeline of events which proved untrue...JR has done enough shet in his life where things don't need to be made up or tp expect unrealistic performance during an injury..His bad choices are enough..I'm sure u guys have enough fuel to run on the legit stuff he can be blamed for...

a realist would acknowledge that melo has been grossly overpaid for what he brings to the court.. but never mind about that. i laid out why the knicks will win a minimum of 29 games. if melo is good then that is another 7-8 games. if melo is bad then another 3-4 games.

i have no idea how the good folks and razor-sharp basketball minds at espn came to their conclusion, but since you rely on what others have to say rather than doing your own reasoning and analysis there is no use in calling yourself a realist or mouthing off about scrubs..

lets not talk about jr smith anymore. he has taken his soft-azz game and pea-brain to cleveland where he can hinder lebron's quest for another title....

As compared to whom..Gallo is making 17..DJordan is making 20?..Robin Lopez s making 13/14..Bosh is making 22...Amare, your boy, who brought a lot less, was making more than Melo...

no.

gallo's contract amortizes at 15.5 over the next 3 seasons. is he being overpaid? yes, and i have acknowledged as much a couple of times.. but we both know you have an issue with selective memory.

the others you mentioned are also being overpaid, but this is part of the hysteria of the marketplace... except for one big difference: melo is a known quantity over 30 who refused to take a discount to help his own cause, while gallinari and the others you mentioned have not yet reached their primes or met the potential that their respective front offices believe they can achieve. gallinari is still being paid more than he deserves-- now why can't you say the same about melo?

If everyone is being overpaid then the problem is you...You need to adjust to the market...The Garden has been sold out since Melo got here...MSG increase the prices on commercials during games..Secondary prices of Knick tickets plummet after last year all star game...Melo was getting more search hits on ESPN.com during baseball season, this summer, than anyone in sports...You have no clue what his value is...

you keep changing the narrative to justify his salary. "it's a business" sure it is. but it's also about winning championships, or at least making a conference finals. that is not just "business" it is "success" and "winning."

when i talk about being overpaid it is not azzes in seats which is where you go every stinking time, it's about achieving something significant, like the nba final four.

It doesn't matter what I write, you will keep moving the goal post..Let's give it a shot...You are trying to assess his value on how his team results noit his personal results...He already went to the WCF without playing with another current all star...I'm sure that doesn't count in your book...You will move the goal post even after your just stated "Final Four"...But why should his value be assess to the whims of a GM..For example, Phil decided not to speak to Aldridge, clearly the Knicks would be better with Aldridge than with Lopez, O'Quinn and Dwill...Melo and Adridge with anyone else on the roster is a playoff team...As constructed now, we aren't a playoff team...But you want to actually say that Melo cannot take this scrub team to the ECF, so he is overpaid???

While I don't fully agree with this specific example. I agree with the principal of it. In Denver they drafted Skeet and he became a bust, Nene became a good player but never reached his lottery potential. If Skeet panned out then Denver may have had a couple of finals appearances in the tough west. Then there is the time they traded 3 first round picks and offered max contract to Kmart who only gave them one healthy season and never came close to the filling the price they paid.

There are way to many factors that go into winning and losing to hold one person accountable for it. Denver had Melo under a rookie contract and multiple draft picks to play with and they basically whiffed on what they could have actually done with all those assets. Just like they did after they traded Melo for all the assets they took from us.

Malos contract doesn't mean as much as hitting on draft picks does.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:It doesn't matter what I write, you will keep moving the goal post..Let's give it a shot...You are trying to assess his value on how his team results noit his personal results...He already went to the WCF without playing with another current all star...I'm sure that doesn't count in your book...You will move the goal post even after your just stated "Final Four"...But why should his value be assess to the whims of a GM..For example, Phil decided not to speak to Aldridge, clearly the Knicks would be better with Aldridge than with Lopez, O'Quinn and Dwill...Melo and Adridge with anyone else on the roster is a playoff team...As constructed now, we aren't a playoff team...But you want to actually say that Melo cannot take this scrub team to the ECF, so he is overpaid???

You are stuck on this particular tandem but it's too simplistic to say that LMA and Melo + whatever is a playoff team and Melo, Afflalo, RoLo etc isn't a playoff team!!! How do you really expect us to accept that premise??? Why isn't possible that this roster as constructed could be a playoff team? I haven't seen you really break down the roster in a way that backs up your contention.

RoLo isn't a sexy big man but he did have a positive impact on the Blazers. He should have a positive impact on this roster as well. He's not the offensive player that LMA is but he will help to solidify the defense and give just enough of a presence on offense to make things flow properly.

Between the pick-and-rolls and the putbacks, Lopez finished 2013-14 with an offensive rating of 128 -- best in the league.

With RoLo
Season	Team    W  L	W/L%	Finish	SRS	Pace	 ORtg   DRtg    Playoffs	        Top WS
2014-15	Blazers 51 31	.622	1	4.41	94.2	 108.2  103.7   Lost W.C. 1st Rnd.	D. Lillard (10.6)
2013-14	Blazers 54 28	.659	2	4.44	94.9	 111.5  107.4   Lost W.C. Semis		D. Lillard (9.6)
Before RoLo
2012-13	Blazers	33 49	.402	4	-2.53	91.4	 105.8  109.2		                L. Aldridge (7.2)
2011-12	Blazers	28 38	.424	4	-0.22	91.2	 105.7  106.4		                L. Aldridge (7.0)

RoLo can now look to form a tandem with Melo, Afflalo, KP and Jerian over the next few years. IMO that core should be able to win games and compete in the East.

Lopez averaged 5 pts 4 rebs last playoffs...Afflalo shot 17% on the playoffs and averaged 1.7 pts per, makes JR look like LeBron in the finals...Those are scrub like stats...U don't have enough fairy dust to sprinkle on those numbers...