dk7th wrote:

RedmenBaller wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:The only other period that rivaled all sanity was starting 18-5 the following year because of Kidd until the team unraveled because they were old and Felton went back to being Felton.

Wiukdve made a lot more sense to have kids mentor Lin than Felton. As was originally intended but oh well. Just another royal screw up in the Knicks long list of screwups. Par for the coarse for this James W. Dolan led franchise

So you would have paid the 15 million for 3rd year that would have meant a luxury tax poison pill in exchange for one month of hype and three year bust?

this was the first chance for the knicks to use melo as a sixth man, a role he was destined to play. when he came back, according to the writer, the knicks lost a half-dozen games and d'antoni resigned. ahhh, yes, the outrageous unfolding of events recaptured quite matter-of-factly.

Welcome back Skippy....Here ya go.

foosballnick wrote:The continual and tiring issue is that if you are a supporter of something with the Knicks.....you are somehow assumed to also have to take a position on Melo.....then lines are drawn and the personal shots are fired here.

Lin was great for the short time he was with the Knicks. He gave a shot of energy to the Team, Fanbase, Media etc. However here's the thing(s).....

MDA should not be credited IMO as he had Lin on the roster and did not use him until desperately forced to.

Lin played great during his run with the Knicks - but did not play in the Playoffs

Ultimately Lin chose to take the most money offered and play in Houston. This is not a bad thing - but ultimately it was his choice to do so. If I'm an owner of any business, I'm hard pressed to offer a significant amount of money over an extended period based on a small sample size of performance. As it turned out, the correct decision was not to re-sign Lin to the $8 mil contract per year (& $15 mil Balloon Payment in year 3) based on his performance after his brief run with the Knicks.

Not sure you have to be a polarizing Melo Lover or Hater based on how you feel about Lin.....there are too many who try to bring Melo into every single topic.

holfresh wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

RedmenBaller wrote:Another hype victim? The Best Bait would be no team offering much for the failed hype. Or the 33% from three averaged last 3 years. Or the bench role given to a guy making 15 million. Say the name Jeremy Lin. Tell me the word bust does not immediately come out of your mouth. Wait, we are arguing that there needs to be data to prove Lin is a bust? Lmao

I want to see the Knicks win basketball games.

I want to see the Knicks play real team basketball.

I want to see the Knicks play the game the "right way"

When Jeremy Lin was a Knick, and Melo was off injured, Lin led the team, and they were winning basketball games, they were playing team basketball ( the defense and team effort had as much to do with the wins as Lin) and were playing the "right way"

Right now, and after Lin left and D'Antoni got fired, the team has lost more basketball games than won, they struggled to play team basketball and often simply did not play the game "the right way"

"You can only play the games they put in front of you " - Bill Parcells

"You are what your record says you are..." - Bill Parcells

You can feel anyway you want to about Jeremy Lin. Your opinion, your right to it ( Though you don't seem to give anyone else that courtesy)

But I would hesitate, in my view, about anyone calling themselves a Knicks fan and openly mocking ANY Knicks player who helped and led the team to victories, played true team basketbll and played the game the right way.

Win or lose, the Knicks with Lin, without the artificial restraints of Melo, Leon Rose, CAA, Stephen A Smith and their cronies, would be playing team basketball and playing the right way. Instead, the Knicks have been losing and are still trying to find a way to just play basic team basketball again. Interesting that some folks who call themselves Knicks fans seem to embrace falling two steps back in order to mock a player who helped the team take a step forward.

For whatever limitations Jeremy Lin had or has , real or perceived or fabricated, you never had to worry about him playing the game the right way, buying into the team effort, sacrificing for the team's greater good, acting like a true professional, handling the press with class and composure and putting 150 percent on the floor each night.

Remember when Ruben Sierra had a stint with the Yankees and then left, then complained to the press while on some other team - "Those Yankees, didn't get along with them, all they wanted to do was win"

All they wanted to do was win.

Some folks here scream out about agendas then want to mock a player who actually led the Knicks to victories by playing team basketball and playing the right way?

Total BS..The Knicks went 18-6 after MDA quit...Won 54 games the following season...Woodson left the Knicks with a winning record...

Never cloud the issue with facts, holfresh.

Some folks on here scream their agenda while screaming about agendas.

the player people are "mocking" didn't pan out to be the saviour of the world and the sport of basketball and the franchise that some folks (who have an agenda about a certain other player) would like to make him out to be. Actual facts and actual subsequent reality show that fact.

A worldview can be a horrible, entrenched place to see reality from.

Nevermind that D'Antoni can make the most marginal PG look competent and an average pg look like a borderline all-star.
With so many new players this on the Knicks this season, it is practically a complete reboot, I am looking forward to the season.
Dwelling on the past distracts from getting ready for the future.

CrushAlot wrote:

foosballnick wrote:The continual and tiring issue is that if you are a supporter of something with the Knicks.....you are somehow assumed to also have to take a position on Melo.....then lines are drawn and the personal shots are fired here.

Lin was great for the short time he was with the Knicks. He gave a shot of energy to the Team, Fanbase, Media etc. However here's the thing(s).....

MDA should not be credited IMO as he had Lin on the roster and did not use him until desperately forced to.

Lin played great during his run with the Knicks - but did not play in the Playoffs

Ultimately Lin chose to take the most money offered and play in Houston. This is not a bad thing - but ultimately it was his choice to do so. If I'm an owner of any business, I'm hard pressed to offer a significant amount of money over an extended period based on a small sample size of performance. As it turned out, the correct decision was not to re-sign Lin to the $8 mil contract per year (& $15 mil Balloon Payment in year 3) based on his performance after his brief run with the Knicks.

Not sure you have to be a polarizing Melo Lover or Hater based on how you feel about Lin.....there are too many who try to bring Melo into every single topic.

Well said. Also, I might not be remembering correctly but I thought D'Antoni wanted to cut Lin and Grunwald sent him to Erie for a game. After he blew up in the game there his fate changed.

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:The continual and tiring issue is that if you are a supporter of something with the Knicks.....you are somehow assumed to also have to take a position on Melo.....then lines are drawn and the personal shots are fired here.

Lin was great for the short time he was with the Knicks. He gave a shot of energy to the Team, Fanbase, Media etc. However here's the thing(s).....

MDA should not be credited IMO as he had Lin on the roster and did not use him until desperately forced to.

Lin played great during his run with the Knicks - but did not play in the Playoffs

Ultimately Lin chose to take the most money offered and play in Houston. This is not a bad thing - but ultimately it was his choice to do so. If I'm an owner of any business, I'm hard pressed to offer a significant amount of money over an extended period based on a small sample size of performance. As it turned out, the correct decision was not to re-sign Lin to the $8 mil contract per year (& $15 mil Balloon Payment in year 3) based on his performance after his brief run with the Knicks.

Not sure you have to be a polarizing Melo Lover or Hater based on how you feel about Lin.....there are too many who try to bring Melo into every single topic.

No. Almost everything in this post is wrong.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

technomaster wrote:What was the big deal about the poison pill anyway? The Rockets were able to trade him no problem. The Lakers traded for him and survived. Mediocre players were signed for more this offseason.

I hope he can find a good situation again. He was certainly one of the most exciting players for that stretch. But fundamentally, maybe he never was quite the same after tearing cartilage in his knee that season.

Maybe he was never the same without Jared Jeffries as his pnr partner.

But players perform in the right circumstances... I can't say we won't see Linsanity again. There were still a few flashes on the Lakers this past season.

The rockets had to trade a first round pick to move him. The poison pill put the Knicks in a horrible position cap wise that would limit moves they could make and they would be taxed at an incredibly high rate (75 mil in his third year I believe was what was reported). The point of the poison pill was to prevent the Knicks from signing Lin. The Knicks and Lin made a business decision. It was the right decision for the Knicks. Lin got his money but has lost his starting job to an undrafted player and a rookie second round pick. Have to think that things would have gone better for him in ny. The Knicks didn't have cap space or picks so he wasn't going to lose his job and he was loved by the fan base. It was business though. The guy fired his agent and went with a bigger name. He sat out of usa basketball because he didn't want to jeopardize his free agency. If reports are accurate, he chose to sign the poison pill after it was reported that the Knicks would match the rockets original offer. I don't know if the last part is accurate but make no mistake, Lin wanted to get paid and he was right to want what was best for himself. I just get frustrated when other guys are painted as all about their money and Lin is painted as the team before money guy. Lin gave up his career to get paid in my opinion.

lin was in the wrong situation with melo as a starter. melo is a ballhog with a usage rate in the low to mid 30s.

and he was in the wrong situation in houston with harden. harden dominates the ball with a usage but at least makes plays, but then that makes lin a bit redundant, not a bad player, but under- or mis-utilzed.

and he was in the wrong situation with bryant. he can't be a point guard on a team when there's a shooting guard/wing player with a usage rate of 35%

the right situation for him would have been to fully use his talents to be the orchestrating point guard with a strong pick and roll-centric offense, a couple of wing defenders, and a sturdy defensive center/rim protector. in other words, any team with lin as a starter needed/needs to be lin's team.

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:The continual and tiring issue is that if you are a supporter of something with the Knicks.....you are somehow assumed to also have to take a position on Melo.....then lines are drawn and the personal shots are fired here.

Lin was great for the short time he was with the Knicks. He gave a shot of energy to the Team, Fanbase, Media etc. However here's the thing(s).....

MDA should not be credited IMO as he had Lin on the roster and did not use him until desperately forced to.

Lin played great during his run with the Knicks - but did not play in the Playoffs

Ultimately Lin chose to take the most money offered and play in Houston. This is not a bad thing - but ultimately it was his choice to do so. If I'm an owner of any business, I'm hard pressed to offer a significant amount of money over an extended period based on a small sample size of performance. As it turned out, the correct decision was not to re-sign Lin to the $8 mil contract per year (& $15 mil Balloon Payment in year 3) based on his performance after his brief run with the Knicks.

Not sure you have to be a polarizing Melo Lover or Hater based on how you feel about Lin.....there are too many who try to bring Melo into every single topic.

No. Almost everything in this post is wrong.

Please indicate what exactly is not factual about the post of shut your pie hole.

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:The continual and tiring issue is that if you are a supporter of something with the Knicks.....you are somehow assumed to also have to take a position on Melo.....then lines are drawn and the personal shots are fired here.

Lin was great for the short time he was with the Knicks. He gave a shot of energy to the Team, Fanbase, Media etc. However here's the thing(s).....

MDA should not be credited IMO as he had Lin on the roster and did not use him until desperately forced to.

Lin played great during his run with the Knicks - but did not play in the Playoffs

Ultimately Lin chose to take the most money offered and play in Houston. This is not a bad thing - but ultimately it was his choice to do so. If I'm an owner of any business, I'm hard pressed to offer a significant amount of money over an extended period based on a small sample size of performance. As it turned out, the correct decision was not to re-sign Lin to the $8 mil contract per year (& $15 mil Balloon Payment in year 3) based on his performance after his brief run with the Knicks.

Not sure you have to be a polarizing Melo Lover or Hater based on how you feel about Lin.....there are too many who try to bring Melo into every single topic.

No. Almost everything in this post is wrong.

Please indicate what exactly is not factual about the post of shut your pie hole.

"MDA should not be credited".... We can start there.

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:The continual and tiring issue is that if you are a supporter of something with the Knicks.....you are somehow assumed to also have to take a position on Melo.....then lines are drawn and the personal shots are fired here.

Lin was great for the short time he was with the Knicks. He gave a shot of energy to the Team, Fanbase, Media etc. However here's the thing(s).....

MDA should not be credited IMO as he had Lin on the roster and did not use him until desperately forced to.

Lin played great during his run with the Knicks - but did not play in the Playoffs

Ultimately Lin chose to take the most money offered and play in Houston. This is not a bad thing - but ultimately it was his choice to do so. If I'm an owner of any business, I'm hard pressed to offer a significant amount of money over an extended period based on a small sample size of performance. As it turned out, the correct decision was not to re-sign Lin to the $8 mil contract per year (& $15 mil Balloon Payment in year 3) based on his performance after his brief run with the Knicks.

Not sure you have to be a polarizing Melo Lover or Hater based on how you feel about Lin.....there are too many who try to bring Melo into every single topic.

No. Almost everything in this post is wrong.

Please indicate what exactly is not factual about the post of shut your pie hole.

"MDA should not be credited".... We can start there.

It's difficult to determine what is lower. Your sense of reality or your intelligence level, How about you take the time to re-read the post. What you are challenging as non-factual was in fact presented as an opinion. Please reference the "IMO" in that sentence which means "in my opinion". How about you actually challenge presented facts with fact checks and challenge opinions with opinions and don't mix the two. Otherwise it just continues to further the hypothesis that you are nothing more than a buffoon on this board.

"Such displays of loyalty register deeply with the players: “We’re loyal to Joe because Joe is loyal to us,” says Stanton. These bonds, in turn, have allowed Torre to make difficult decisions—such as temporarily benching big-name veterans for strategic reasons—without a peep of protest. Well, hardly a peep: Torre says his one incorrigible was outfielder Ruben Sierra, who complained ceaselessly about everything from his playing time to his uniform number. “He didn’t get it, and in retrospect, I don’t think he wanted to get it,” says Torre. “He was so used to dictating what he wanted as opposed to what was best for the team.” Traded to Detroit at Torre’s insistence, Sierra meant to insult the Yankees when he growled, “All they care about over there is winning.” "

Many criticism of Jeremy Lin tend to revolve around two basic concepts

1) That, as a 2nd year player, but really only getting an opportunity during his Knicks run, that as a young NBA player, that his flaws then were all he could be and ever be. This is not in line with how NBA players actually develop. If Lin was a 5th or 6th year player, I could see some reasoning, esp if he had had ample minutes to construct a wide view of his strengths and limitations. Most Lin criticism asks everyone to "trap" him in time, essentially as a rookie.

2) Most criticism holds him to a standard of a 10 year veteran in the league. Why doesn't he do this? Why does he do that? He was essentially a raw rookie jacked up to heavy minutes on the biggest spotlight in sports, and all he did was step up and help his team win. He doesn't control what the schedule looks like, he didn't control when his opportunity would come, if at all, but when it came, he was ready for it.

If a parent has a 10 year old who makes a mistake, do you expect that parent to punch that kid in the face? Because often the Lin criticism comes off just like that. Wow, a young point guard still learning the game coughs up the ball. In the history of the NBA, NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN THAT HAPPEN.

The Knicks desperately needed help at point guard, and he came in, and against all odds, gave them what they needed. He played real team basketball and played the game the right way. He did more to help the team win more than lose. He conducted himself as a professional. If he was a Knick now, he'd still be trying to play the right way.

Magic Johnson said it best, go beyond the turnovers, look at how many players on the roster are scoring in double digits when Lin is on the floor, look how much he energizes the team because they know if they do their job, he is going to do his damnest to get them the ball, look how he pumps up the crowd, how everyone is waiting to see what he does next, notice how he does a lot of the intangible things that you just can't teach a young player.

Of course Melo's biggest ball lickers here will be up in arms about Lin. Lin and how he played and how he lead the team to victories, as an undrafted free agent with only maybe 1/1000th of Melo's overall basketball talent, that just shamed Melo. If an undrafted young kid with almost no real NBA experience can do it, why can't a veteran with a decade in the league and with All Star and Team USA experience? Everything Lin did right was an indictment on everything Melo did wrong when it came to real team basketball.

Driven off the roster at Melo’s insistence, guys like jrodmc, holfresh and CrushAlot meant to insult the Jeremy Lin when they growled, “All he did for the Knicks was help them win basketball games.” "