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dk7th
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7/30/2015  8:41 AM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:DK7.

The guy who thinks Gallinari will be a star after 10 shyt seasons.

Yea, you're getting called out little boy.

golly you actually went there. you must be bored. the kings market in cresskill is looking for a stockboy.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
AUTOADVERT
ChuckBuck
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7/30/2015  8:43 AM
holfresh wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Are the guys actually debating if Woodson was a good coach now?

The same guy that had no idea how to run an offense? The same guy that doesn't know how to phucking guard a switch?

I mean he had a few winning seasons in ATL and a season and a half of good here in NY, but no team was recruiting or knocking at his door when he became a free agent again.

And what is your assessment based on?? It's certainly not based on wins?..Knick fans are so smart that they forget what really matters, wins..They were all caught up in the switching defense all year anf forgot that a coach was getting the best out of his players, actually winning games and getting past the first round..Phil comes in a sells you Fisher and a 17 win year and you are eating it up...Truly amazing..

Actually it is based on wins. His record was 7 - 10 when it mattered most. That's a losing record in my book.

Actually everyone's book!

His career win percentage in the postseason is 39%. Sorry holfresh, numbers never lie.

Regu Regu Regu Regu    Regu   Regu Play Play Play Play      
Season      Age  Lg  Tm    G    W    L W/L% W  .500 Finish    G    W    L W/L% Notes
2004-05      46 NBA ATL   82   13   69 .159   -28.0      5                          
2005-06      47 NBA ATL   82   26   56 .317   -15.0      5                          
2006-07      48 NBA ATL   82   30   52 .366   -11.0      5                          
2007-08      49 NBA ATL   82   37   45 .451    -4.0      3    7    3    4 .429      
2008-09      50 NBA ATL   82   47   35 .573     6.0      2   11    4    7 .364      
2009-10      51 NBA ATL   82   53   29 .646    12.0      2   11    4    7 .364      
2011-12      53 NBA NYK   24   18    6 .750     6.0      2    5    1    4 .200      
2012-13      54 NBA NYK   82   54   28 .659    13.0      1   12    6    6 .500      
2013-14      55 NBA NYK   82   37   45 .451    -4.0      3    0    0    0           
Career          NBA      680  315  365 .463   -25.0          46   18   28 .391      
                                                                                    
6 seasons       NBA ATL  492  206  286 .419   -40.0          29   11   18 .379      
3 seasons       NBA NYK  188  109   79 .580    15.0          17    7   10 .412
holfresh
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7/30/2015  8:53 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
holfresh wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Are the guys actually debating if Woodson was a good coach now?

The same guy that had no idea how to run an offense? The same guy that doesn't know how to phucking guard a switch?

I mean he had a few winning seasons in ATL and a season and a half of good here in NY, but no team was recruiting or knocking at his door when he became a free agent again.

And what is your assessment based on?? It's certainly not based on wins?..Knick fans are so smart that they forget what really matters, wins..They were all caught up in the switching defense all year anf forgot that a coach was getting the best out of his players, actually winning games and getting past the first round..Phil comes in a sells you Fisher and a 17 win year and you are eating it up...Truly amazing..

Actually it is based on wins. His record was 7 - 10 when it mattered most. That's a losing record in my book.

Actually everyone's book!

His career win percentage in the postseason is 39%. Sorry holfresh, numbers never lie.

Regu Regu Regu Regu    Regu   Regu Play Play Play Play      
Season      Age  Lg  Tm    G    W    L W/L% W  .500 Finish    G    W    L W/L% Notes
2004-05      46 NBA ATL   82   13   69 .159   -28.0      5                          
2005-06      47 NBA ATL   82   26   56 .317   -15.0      5                          
2006-07      48 NBA ATL   82   30   52 .366   -11.0      5                          
2007-08      49 NBA ATL   82   37   45 .451    -4.0      3    7    3    4 .429      
2008-09      50 NBA ATL   82   47   35 .573     6.0      2   11    4    7 .364      
2009-10      51 NBA ATL   82   53   29 .646    12.0      2   11    4    7 .364      
2011-12      53 NBA NYK   24   18    6 .750     6.0      2    5    1    4 .200      
2012-13      54 NBA NYK   82   54   28 .659    13.0      1   12    6    6 .500      
2013-14      55 NBA NYK   82   37   45 .451    -4.0      3    0    0    0           
Career          NBA      680  315  365 .463   -25.0          46   18   28 .391      
                                                                                    
6 seasons       NBA ATL  492  206  286 .419   -40.0          29   11   18 .379      
3 seasons       NBA NYK  188  109   79 .580    15.0          17    7   10 .412

Let me help you with chart reading, it's not a skill everyone is adept at..What that chart is showing you is that he acquired bad teams and made them better..So the initial results aren't important, it's what resulted..Winning and playoffs.
dk7th
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7/30/2015  8:55 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7916347/new-york-knicks-mike-woodson-says-team-absolutely-re-sign-guard-jeremy-lin

http://www.forbes.com/sites/billfischer/2012/03/16/were-all-jeremy-lin-fans-now/

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/woodson-jeremy-guys-better-article-1.1207292

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/16/linsanity-is-dead-welcome-to-woodsons-knicks/

Nice links but I wish you would respond to the question I asked regarding what you wrote. Again, Lin played 7 games under Woodson before getting hurt. The team went 6-1. What was your issue with Woodson/Lin when the Knicks were winning at such a high rate?

as soon as d'antoni resigned it was no longer lin's team.

I am not going to address who's team it was but the Knicks had lost 6 straight, 8-10 and had what should have been one of the best frontlines in the league. Woodson took over and won. He also continued to start Lin until he got hurt.

they were destroyed by miami 4-1, cementing woodson's legacy as a jayvee season coach.

100-67
104-94
87-70
87-89
106-94

the heat toyed with the knicks, winning by an average margin of 15.5 points.

the first game was a "send them a message game" that they have no chance. in fact the game was over by the middle of the second quarter.

this is only one example of woodson being on the receiving end of an ass-whupping in the playoffs. there's a pattern, and a preponderance of blowouts, which is the case with woodson if you care to look at his record in the playoffs and the margin of loss, is demonstrative of an inferior coach, both strategically and in terms of leadership.

as i said, he will not get another head coaching job in the nba. that's indictment enough, wouldn't you say?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
ChuckBuck
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7/30/2015  9:09 AM
holfresh wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
holfresh wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Are the guys actually debating if Woodson was a good coach now?

The same guy that had no idea how to run an offense? The same guy that doesn't know how to phucking guard a switch?

I mean he had a few winning seasons in ATL and a season and a half of good here in NY, but no team was recruiting or knocking at his door when he became a free agent again.

And what is your assessment based on?? It's certainly not based on wins?..Knick fans are so smart that they forget what really matters, wins..They were all caught up in the switching defense all year anf forgot that a coach was getting the best out of his players, actually winning games and getting past the first round..Phil comes in a sells you Fisher and a 17 win year and you are eating it up...Truly amazing..

Actually it is based on wins. His record was 7 - 10 when it mattered most. That's a losing record in my book.

Actually everyone's book!

His career win percentage in the postseason is 39%. Sorry holfresh, numbers never lie.

Regu Regu Regu Regu    Regu   Regu Play Play Play Play      
Season      Age  Lg  Tm    G    W    L W/L% W  .500 Finish    G    W    L W/L% Notes
2004-05      46 NBA ATL   82   13   69 .159   -28.0      5                          
2005-06      47 NBA ATL   82   26   56 .317   -15.0      5                          
2006-07      48 NBA ATL   82   30   52 .366   -11.0      5                          
2007-08      49 NBA ATL   82   37   45 .451    -4.0      3    7    3    4 .429      
2008-09      50 NBA ATL   82   47   35 .573     6.0      2   11    4    7 .364      
2009-10      51 NBA ATL   82   53   29 .646    12.0      2   11    4    7 .364      
2011-12      53 NBA NYK   24   18    6 .750     6.0      2    5    1    4 .200      
2012-13      54 NBA NYK   82   54   28 .659    13.0      1   12    6    6 .500      
2013-14      55 NBA NYK   82   37   45 .451    -4.0      3    0    0    0           
Career          NBA      680  315  365 .463   -25.0          46   18   28 .391      
                                                                                    
6 seasons       NBA ATL  492  206  286 .419   -40.0          29   11   18 .379      
3 seasons       NBA NYK  188  109   79 .580    15.0          17    7   10 .412

Let me help you with chart reading, it's not a skill everyone is adept at..What that chart is showing you is that he acquired bad teams and made them better..So the initial results aren't important, it's what resulted..Winning and playoffs.

Last I saw 54 wins to 37 wins was a down trend, also 2nd round to no rounds.

Might need to get new spectacles, holfresh.
holfresh
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7/30/2015  9:18 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/30/2015  9:28 AM
After the 54 win season, Dolan was offering Phil the job in December of Woody's second full season..Everyone knew Woody was done because of the triangle..Woody lost the team at that point..But imagine the turmoil of that season and he still doubled Fisher's output..Dolan and Phil deserves each other..
holfresh
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7/30/2015  9:21 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/30/2015  9:24 AM
If I were making the call, the guy who were responsible for wins would get the headlines and I would build around him..But with Dolan, it's the starphuck..Phil Jackson..
newyorknewyork
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7/30/2015  9:21 AM
From ATL to NYK. When Woodson had quality guard play his teams won.

With MDA when Jeremy Lin's positive contributions dropped so did the Knicks wins.

Vs Nets - Deron Williams 38pts
Vs Heat - Don't need to get into details
Vs Boston - Rondo 18pts-17rebs-20ast
Vs Mavs - Kidd 15pts held Lin to 30 fg% 14pts 7ast -11 plus/minus
Vs Spurs - Parker 32 pts
Vs Bucks - Jennings 25pts, Lin 20pts 13ast, his only good game during this stretch.
Vs 76ers - Holiday 8pts 14fg% 0 plus/minus. Lin 14pts 27fg% -2 plus/minus
Vs Bulls - Derek Rose 32pts

When we won during our 3-9 skid after the winning streak.

Vs Mavs - Lin 28pts-14ast-5stls, Kidd 8pts 33fg%
Vs Cavs - Lin 19pts-13ast 1 to 50fg%, Irving 22pts 44fg%
Vs Hawks - Lin 17pts-9ast 54fg%, Teague 18pts 58fg% 0ast

Back to Woodson, when he had Kidd before he broke down, Jr Smith playing at a high level, Felton with reduced responsibilities Woodson won games. When Kidd left and Jr Smith decided to go back to been a prick, and Felton pulled a gun on his wife Woodson lost.

In ATL they fired Woodson after winning 53games and getting swept vs the Magic who went to the finals that yr. In reality Mike Bibby what they needed was to upgrade Bibby who was getting old and washed up. Jameer Nelson averaged 17pts per game to Bibby's 4pts. Crawford had to play more mins at PG putting him away from his strengths.

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newyorknewyork
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7/30/2015  9:26 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
holfresh wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Are the guys actually debating if Woodson was a good coach now?

The same guy that had no idea how to run an offense? The same guy that doesn't know how to phucking guard a switch?

I mean he had a few winning seasons in ATL and a season and a half of good here in NY, but no team was recruiting or knocking at his door when he became a free agent again.

And what is your assessment based on?? It's certainly not based on wins?..Knick fans are so smart that they forget what really matters, wins..They were all caught up in the switching defense all year anf forgot that a coach was getting the best out of his players, actually winning games and getting past the first round..Phil comes in a sells you Fisher and a 17 win year and you are eating it up...Truly amazing..

Actually it is based on wins. His record was 7 - 10 when it mattered most. That's a losing record in my book.

Actually everyone's book!

His career win percentage in the postseason is 39%. Sorry holfresh, numbers never lie.

Regu Regu Regu Regu    Regu   Regu Play Play Play Play      
Season      Age  Lg  Tm    G    W    L W/L% W  .500 Finish    G    W    L W/L% Notes
2004-05      46 NBA ATL   82   13   69 .159   -28.0      5                          
2005-06      47 NBA ATL   82   26   56 .317   -15.0      5                          
2006-07      48 NBA ATL   82   30   52 .366   -11.0      5                          
2007-08      49 NBA ATL   82   37   45 .451    -4.0      3    7    3    4 .429      
2008-09      50 NBA ATL   82   47   35 .573     6.0      2   11    4    7 .364      
2009-10      51 NBA ATL   82   53   29 .646    12.0      2   11    4    7 .364      
2011-12      53 NBA NYK   24   18    6 .750     6.0      2    5    1    4 .200      
2012-13      54 NBA NYK   82   54   28 .659    13.0      1   12    6    6 .500      
2013-14      55 NBA NYK   82   37   45 .451    -4.0      3    0    0    0           
Career          NBA      680  315  365 .463   -25.0          46   18   28 .391      
                                                                                    
6 seasons       NBA ATL  492  206  286 .419   -40.0          29   11   18 .379      
3 seasons       NBA NYK  188  109   79 .580    15.0          17    7   10 .412

Woodson got the max out of what he had in ATL. ATL didn't lose in the playoffs because of Woodson's coaching. They needed to upgrade there PG position from Mike Bibby who was getting old and couldn't defend anymore. They needed better defense at the guard position since Bibby and Crawford were both liabilities.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
ChuckBuck
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7/30/2015  9:31 AM
First the excuse train for Melo now the excuse train for Woodson.

Woodson had the corpse of Bibby. Whoa is me! Crawford is a no defense chucker. Boo hoo!

Dude had one offense in ATL....Give the rock to Joe Johnson and get the phuck outta the way.

Dude sucks, stop trying to defend a turd.
holfresh
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7/30/2015  9:39 AM
It's stupid to fire the guy that won the most game for you in a decade..Plain stupid..
newyorknewyork
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7/30/2015  9:40 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:First the excuse train for Melo now the excuse train for Woodson.

Woodson had the corpse of Bibby. Whoa is me! Crawford is a no defense chucker. Boo hoo!

Dude had one offense in ATL....Give the rock to Joe Johnson and get the phuck outta the way.

Dude sucks, stop trying to defend a turd.

If Bibby is a corpse and Crawford is a chucker then who is the offense supposed to run through?

Joe Johnson had a 25% usage rate and a 20% ast% rate during the Woodson playoff era which actually isn't bad. You upgrade the PG from Bibby then Johnson's 25% goes down and his efficiency probably goes up as does the playoff wins.

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newyorknewyork
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7/30/2015  9:48 AM
The only way you can claim Woodson failed in the playoffs is if you believe that ATL was a complete roster and Woodson is the one that brought them down. But in reality they were undersized with Hortford playing center and Josh Smith PF. They lacked perimeter defenders. Crawford and Johnson both served the same purpose and Bibby was more of a liability then positive contributor at this point in there career. Needed more 3 & D type of guard to offset Johnson as well as a pass first defense utility guard in place of Bibby. Dallas version of Jason Kidd would have been perfect as well as a Patrick Beverly.
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Knixkik
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7/30/2015  9:52 AM
dk7th wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
dk7th wrote:
BigSm00th wrote:1. New York - Carmelo
2. Toronto - Demarre Carroll
3. Brooklyn - Joe Johnson
4. Boston - Jae Crowder
5. Philly - whoever they start at SF

Fact or fiction - Carmelo is the best player in the Atlantic division. i say fact. something to keep in mind when you read the Knicks 25-win projections.

he is much closer to a zero-sum player when you consider he is an abomination on defense.


No hes not--come on Carmelo is an excellent NBA player. He won a NC and was the main conduit to many excellent Nugget seasons. It WILL NOT happen here but IF he was in the right situation he could easily be part of a championship team--just like Paul Pierce.

wait did you just compare carmelo anthony to the truth?!?

You get crushed on these conversations every time you act like melo is less than he is. Yes he is very comparable to pierce as far as talent and individual success in the league. But playing on a team that was able to acquire KG and Ray is the biggest thing that separates them. But both players will be first ballet Hall of famers.
ChuckBuck
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7/30/2015  9:55 AM
LOL now they're undersized.

Hey I don't make these things up. Dude played Center his whole life and excelled for the most part, now he's undersized!
newyorknewyork
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7/30/2015  10:09 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/30/2015  10:10 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:LOL now they're undersized.

Hey I don't make these things up. Dude played Center his whole life and excelled for the most part, now he's undersized!

2015
Mozgov 10.8pts 7.5rebs 1.3blks. Horford 11pts 4.8rebs 0.5blks
2010
Howard 24pts 13.3rebs 2.8blks. Horford 13pts 7.5rebs 1blk

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ChuckBuck
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7/30/2015  10:12 AM
newyorknewyork you're reaching now. Take a long nap or something.

Anyone would love to have Al Horford on their team. Dude's as solid as they come. Guy can do it all and efficiently.

That's why they compared Karl Anthony Towns to the next Al Horford, not the next Mozgov or Howard.
holfresh
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7/30/2015  10:21 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:newyorknewyork you're reaching now. Take a long nap or something.

Anyone would love to have Al Horford on their team. Dude's as solid as they come. Guy can do it all and efficiently.

That's why they compared Karl Anthony Towns to the next Al Horford, not the next Mozgov or Howard.

Fact remains that Woodson took all his teams as far as they could have gone..There is no denying that..If you do, then you don't know the game..
newyorknewyork
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7/30/2015  10:27 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:newyorknewyork you're reaching now. Take a long nap or something.

Anyone would love to have Al Horford on their team. Dude's as solid as they come. Guy can do it all and efficiently.

That's why they compared Karl Anthony Towns to the next Al Horford, not the next Mozgov or Howard.

He has gotten lit up by most of the true centers he has played against in the playoffs. He has either been injured or his production drops drastically. Tristan Thompson and Mozgov killed ATL's frontline in the playoffs.

Horford is a good role player, doesn't really take over games on a consistent enough bases to be labled more, fades away big time in big playoff games.

The point though is if your a complete team you would like the flexibility to go big or small depending on the matchup. If you don't have the flexibility to do that then you leave yourself open to being exposed by your weaknesses. Like when Dwight Howard is killing Horford you would like to be able to put another big body on Howard and free Horford up to produce at the PF position without making him guard the center. Much like Spurs do with Duncan and Mavs do with Dirk, Boston did with KG, LA did with Gasol. If you notice I named all teams that won championships with there ability to go big or small and move there big man around depending on matchup.

So far you haven't brought anything to this discussion and couldn't even dispute any of the break down of ATL roster I supplied. Your bringing a banana to a gun fight.

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newyorknewyork
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7/30/2015  10:34 AM
And guess what the Hawks did, they traded for Splitter from the Spurs. Now why would they go and do something like that????
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