nixluva wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:TPercy
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?

Atkins is interesting. He doesn't look or move like his defensive numbers suggest. He sort of sneaks up on you in a way.
For sure they will see how he defends centers. I am still a bit down on letting NDour go. But let's see what Atkins can do on offense....

Defensive Player of the Year... Think of how many are playing in college and 1 guy wins it. (Albeit in limited minutes.) He might surprise us.

didnt know that... although its the ACC and didnt Toney Douglas win it there?

Either way my point wasnt TPercy is WRONG, just rather wait and see. How big is the talent gap between NDour and Atkins? Lets just see how he fits

I think the big difference is that Atkins actually has the build to bang a bit more than Ndour. They listed Ndor at 200 lbs and Atkins is 240.

Atkins posted modest stats during his four-year career at Virginia before exploding onto the scene at the NBA’s Portsmouth Invitational in the spring. In three games, he averaged 20.0 points, 10.3 rebounds and 3.7 blocks and made the All-Tournament Team.

“He came in and just played solid,” said NBA Senior Director of Scouting Ryan Blake. “He played like a veteran. Defensively and offensively — he opened up a lot of eyes for NBA teams.

“He showed touch, instincts, composure — everything. His field goal percentage was great. He showed a lot.”

Added Jonathan Givony of NBA Draft Express: “He was really impressive. He was one of the best big guys there, without a doubt.”

Atkins will be looking to join former Virginia teammate Justin Anderson in the NBA. Anderson was a first-round pick of the Dallas Mavericks last month.

“It won’t be a dream come true until I’m on a team,” Atkins told The Daily Progress just after the draft.

He’s getting closer.

Wow, didn't realize the difference in weight there. Still a bit sad about Ndour due to his offensive potential. But perhaps Atkins shows us something, like in the PIT tournament was it? Didn't he win MVP or the like?

I think some of us need to stop doubting Phil and his staffs talent evaluation. Especially with a guy we may not have been watching but they were. His scouts are fully informed about what Phil is looking for and even tho Ndour didn't work out they may have been more focused on Atkins and maybe for a good reason. We won't know until Pre Season but I find it interesting that some fans actually think the Knicks aren't aware of what we see. They could see what we saw in Ndour, but they also have a lot more info than we do. They have their own plans for the roster which we can't know being on the outside.

They could see Atkins and Saunders as D League roster guys or possibly more. By the time we get to camp i'm sure there will be other players we may be surprised by.

More weight does not mean more effective. Taj Gibson weighed 214 lbs and same in hanging with the big boys.

Also, signing N'dour doesn't mean you can't sign Atkins. The problem is being so heap not to explore a potential cheap talent because it would cost an extra 200-500k. That's just sad.

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:TPercy
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?

Atkins is interesting. He doesn't look or move like his defensive numbers suggest. He sort of sneaks up on you in a way.
For sure they will see how he defends centers. I am still a bit down on letting NDour go. But let's see what Atkins can do on offense....

Defensive Player of the Year... Think of how many are playing in college and 1 guy wins it. (Albeit in limited minutes.) He might surprise us.

didnt know that... although its the ACC and didnt Toney Douglas win it there?

Either way my point wasnt TPercy is WRONG, just rather wait and see. How big is the talent gap between NDour and Atkins? Lets just see how he fits

I think the big difference is that Atkins actually has the build to bang a bit more than Ndour. They listed Ndor at 200 lbs and Atkins is 240.

Atkins posted modest stats during his four-year career at Virginia before exploding onto the scene at the NBA’s Portsmouth Invitational in the spring. In three games, he averaged 20.0 points, 10.3 rebounds and 3.7 blocks and made the All-Tournament Team.

“He came in and just played solid,” said NBA Senior Director of Scouting Ryan Blake. “He played like a veteran. Defensively and offensively — he opened up a lot of eyes for NBA teams.

“He showed touch, instincts, composure — everything. His field goal percentage was great. He showed a lot.”

Added Jonathan Givony of NBA Draft Express: “He was really impressive. He was one of the best big guys there, without a doubt.”

Atkins will be looking to join former Virginia teammate Justin Anderson in the NBA. Anderson was a first-round pick of the Dallas Mavericks last month.

“It won’t be a dream come true until I’m on a team,” Atkins told The Daily Progress just after the draft.

He’s getting closer.

Wow, didn't realize the difference in weight there. Still a bit sad about Ndour due to his offensive potential. But perhaps Atkins shows us something, like in the PIT tournament was it? Didn't he win MVP or the like?

I think some of us need to stop doubting Phil and his staffs talent evaluation. Especially with a guy we may not have been watching but they were. His scouts are fully informed about what Phil is looking for and even tho Ndour didn't work out they may have been more focused on Atkins and maybe for a good reason. We won't know until Pre Season but I find it interesting that some fans actually think the Knicks aren't aware of what we see. They could see what we saw in Ndour, but they also have a lot more info than we do. They have their own plans for the roster which we can't know being on the outside.

They could see Atkins and Saunders as D League roster guys or possibly more. By the time we get to camp i'm sure there will be other players we may be surprised by.

More weight does not mean more effective. Taj Gibson weighed 214 lbs and same in hanging with the big boys.

Also, signing N'dour doesn't mean you can't sign Atkins. The problem is being so heap not to explore a potential cheap talent because it would cost an extra 200-500k. That's just sad.

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:TPercy
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?

Atkins is interesting. He doesn't look or move like his defensive numbers suggest. He sort of sneaks up on you in a way.
For sure they will see how he defends centers. I am still a bit down on letting NDour go. But let's see what Atkins can do on offense....

Defensive Player of the Year... Think of how many are playing in college and 1 guy wins it. (Albeit in limited minutes.) He might surprise us.

didnt know that... although its the ACC and didnt Toney Douglas win it there?

Either way my point wasnt TPercy is WRONG, just rather wait and see. How big is the talent gap between NDour and Atkins? Lets just see how he fits

I think the big difference is that Atkins actually has the build to bang a bit more than Ndour. They listed Ndor at 200 lbs and Atkins is 240.

Atkins posted modest stats during his four-year career at Virginia before exploding onto the scene at the NBA’s Portsmouth Invitational in the spring. In three games, he averaged 20.0 points, 10.3 rebounds and 3.7 blocks and made the All-Tournament Team.

“He came in and just played solid,” said NBA Senior Director of Scouting Ryan Blake. “He played like a veteran. Defensively and offensively — he opened up a lot of eyes for NBA teams.

“He showed touch, instincts, composure — everything. His field goal percentage was great. He showed a lot.”

Added Jonathan Givony of NBA Draft Express: “He was really impressive. He was one of the best big guys there, without a doubt.”

Atkins will be looking to join former Virginia teammate Justin Anderson in the NBA. Anderson was a first-round pick of the Dallas Mavericks last month.

“It won’t be a dream come true until I’m on a team,” Atkins told The Daily Progress just after the draft.

He’s getting closer.

Wow, didn't realize the difference in weight there. Still a bit sad about Ndour due to his offensive potential. But perhaps Atkins shows us something, like in the PIT tournament was it? Didn't he win MVP or the like?

I think some of us need to stop doubting Phil and his staffs talent evaluation. Especially with a guy we may not have been watching but they were. His scouts are fully informed about what Phil is looking for and even tho Ndour didn't work out they may have been more focused on Atkins and maybe for a good reason. We won't know until Pre Season but I find it interesting that some fans actually think the Knicks aren't aware of what we see. They could see what we saw in Ndour, but they also have a lot more info than we do. They have their own plans for the roster which we can't know being on the outside.

They could see Atkins and Saunders as D League roster guys or possibly more. By the time we get to camp i'm sure there will be other players we may be surprised by.

More weight does not mean more effective. Taj Gibson weighed 214 lbs and same in hanging with the big boys.

Also, signing N'dour doesn't mean you can't sign Atkins. The problem is being so heap not to explore a potential cheap talent because it would cost an extra 200-500k. That's just sad.

How do you know that Ndour would be more effective than Atkins? You don't know. Apparently the Knicks feel Atkins is worth taking a look at. Perhaps they feel he has a shot to prove if he deserves to make the roster and that his skills and physical talent may be a better fit than Ndour. It's not hard to understand why they might feel a 200 lbs forward might now be what they're looking for, no matter how he may have looked.

They obviously wanted N'dour that were just cheap. They even wanted to get him to backout of a verbal agreement with Dallas. I get that you have a hard time saying Phil made a mistake and that's cool.

Also, N'dour showed potential on both sides of the ball while Atkins didn't show much when the man lights came on. However like I said before it's not about either or because Atkins could have been camp invite too.

http://nypost.com/2015/07/28/why-knicks-last-ditch-effort-to-sign-maurice-ndour-fell-short/

I agree that it's not necessarily an either or situation with Ndour and Atkins, since there will be plenty of spots in TC. IMO if they felt Ndour was a player they simply couldn't take a chance with losing then they would've locked him up with a more substantial initial offer. Even if they did make another offer late, I have to imagine that Phil and his staff had to know Ndour would get other offers after his SL showing. Dallas is a bit more aggressive at this point after all that happened to them.

Atkins did show offensive potential at the PIT. I suppose that it's possible he wasn't put in the same position in SL that he was at the PIT. Who knows for sure. In any event we'll get a look at him down the line. Maybe we'll see Ndour again too.

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:TPercy
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?

Atkins is interesting. He doesn't look or move like his defensive numbers suggest. He sort of sneaks up on you in a way.
For sure they will see how he defends centers. I am still a bit down on letting NDour go. But let's see what Atkins can do on offense....

Defensive Player of the Year... Think of how many are playing in college and 1 guy wins it. (Albeit in limited minutes.) He might surprise us.

didnt know that... although its the ACC and didnt Toney Douglas win it there?

Either way my point wasnt TPercy is WRONG, just rather wait and see. How big is the talent gap between NDour and Atkins? Lets just see how he fits

I think the big difference is that Atkins actually has the build to bang a bit more than Ndour. They listed Ndor at 200 lbs and Atkins is 240.

Atkins posted modest stats during his four-year career at Virginia before exploding onto the scene at the NBA’s Portsmouth Invitational in the spring. In three games, he averaged 20.0 points, 10.3 rebounds and 3.7 blocks and made the All-Tournament Team.

“He came in and just played solid,” said NBA Senior Director of Scouting Ryan Blake. “He played like a veteran. Defensively and offensively — he opened up a lot of eyes for NBA teams.

“He showed touch, instincts, composure — everything. His field goal percentage was great. He showed a lot.”

Added Jonathan Givony of NBA Draft Express: “He was really impressive. He was one of the best big guys there, without a doubt.”

Atkins will be looking to join former Virginia teammate Justin Anderson in the NBA. Anderson was a first-round pick of the Dallas Mavericks last month.

“It won’t be a dream come true until I’m on a team,” Atkins told The Daily Progress just after the draft.

He’s getting closer.

Wow, didn't realize the difference in weight there. Still a bit sad about Ndour due to his offensive potential. But perhaps Atkins shows us something, like in the PIT tournament was it? Didn't he win MVP or the like?

I think some of us need to stop doubting Phil and his staffs talent evaluation. Especially with a guy we may not have been watching but they were. His scouts are fully informed about what Phil is looking for and even tho Ndour didn't work out they may have been more focused on Atkins and maybe for a good reason. We won't know until Pre Season but I find it interesting that some fans actually think the Knicks aren't aware of what we see. They could see what we saw in Ndour, but they also have a lot more info than we do. They have their own plans for the roster which we can't know being on the outside.

They could see Atkins and Saunders as D League roster guys or possibly more. By the time we get to camp i'm sure there will be other players we may be surprised by.

More weight does not mean more effective. Taj Gibson weighed 214 lbs and same in hanging with the big boys.

Also, signing N'dour doesn't mean you can't sign Atkins. The problem is being so heap not to explore a potential cheap talent because it would cost an extra 200-500k. That's just sad.

How do you know that Ndour would be more effective than Atkins? You don't know. Apparently the Knicks feel Atkins is worth taking a look at. Perhaps they feel he has a shot to prove if he deserves to make the roster and that his skills and physical talent may be a better fit than Ndour. It's not hard to understand why they might feel a 200 lbs forward might now be what they're looking for, no matter how he may have looked.

They obviously wanted N'dour that were just cheap. They even wanted to get him to backout of a verbal agreement with Dallas. I get that you have a hard time saying Phil made a mistake and that's cool.

Also, N'dour showed potential on both sides of the ball while Atkins didn't show much when the man lights came on. However like I said before it's not about either or because Atkins could have been camp invite too.

http://nypost.com/2015/07/28/why-knicks-last-ditch-effort-to-sign-maurice-ndour-fell-short/

I dont understand the concept of being cheap with minimum players? If a guy makes 600 or 800K W is the difference if you believe in his skills? The NY Knicks--NOT 1 time NOT ONCE never have given a 2nd round pick a 3 or 4 year deal. If Langston Galloway has a good year this year financially he could absorb our free agent money because the Knicks did not add minimum option years. Thats on Phil Jackson--he cant say at the end if the year well we did not anticipate--uh thats your job... Im sure theyll be happy if L Gallo plays well but if he plays well enough to command 5-7mm????!!??

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:TPercy
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?

Atkins is interesting. He doesn't look or move like his defensive numbers suggest. He sort of sneaks up on you in a way.
For sure they will see how he defends centers. I am still a bit down on letting NDour go. But let's see what Atkins can do on offense....

Defensive Player of the Year... Think of how many are playing in college and 1 guy wins it. (Albeit in limited minutes.) He might surprise us.

didnt know that... although its the ACC and didnt Toney Douglas win it there?

Either way my point wasnt TPercy is WRONG, just rather wait and see. How big is the talent gap between NDour and Atkins? Lets just see how he fits

I think the big difference is that Atkins actually has the build to bang a bit more than Ndour. They listed Ndor at 200 lbs and Atkins is 240.

Atkins posted modest stats during his four-year career at Virginia before exploding onto the scene at the NBA’s Portsmouth Invitational in the spring. In three games, he averaged 20.0 points, 10.3 rebounds and 3.7 blocks and made the All-Tournament Team.

“He came in and just played solid,” said NBA Senior Director of Scouting Ryan Blake. “He played like a veteran. Defensively and offensively — he opened up a lot of eyes for NBA teams.

“He showed touch, instincts, composure — everything. His field goal percentage was great. He showed a lot.”

Added Jonathan Givony of NBA Draft Express: “He was really impressive. He was one of the best big guys there, without a doubt.”

Atkins will be looking to join former Virginia teammate Justin Anderson in the NBA. Anderson was a first-round pick of the Dallas Mavericks last month.

“It won’t be a dream come true until I’m on a team,” Atkins told The Daily Progress just after the draft.

He’s getting closer.

Wow, didn't realize the difference in weight there. Still a bit sad about Ndour due to his offensive potential. But perhaps Atkins shows us something, like in the PIT tournament was it? Didn't he win MVP or the like?

I think some of us need to stop doubting Phil and his staffs talent evaluation. Especially with a guy we may not have been watching but they were. His scouts are fully informed about what Phil is looking for and even tho Ndour didn't work out they may have been more focused on Atkins and maybe for a good reason. We won't know until Pre Season but I find it interesting that some fans actually think the Knicks aren't aware of what we see. They could see what we saw in Ndour, but they also have a lot more info than we do. They have their own plans for the roster which we can't know being on the outside.

They could see Atkins and Saunders as D League roster guys or possibly more. By the time we get to camp i'm sure there will be other players we may be surprised by.

More weight does not mean more effective. Taj Gibson weighed 214 lbs and same in hanging with the big boys.

Also, signing N'dour doesn't mean you can't sign Atkins. The problem is being so heap not to explore a potential cheap talent because it would cost an extra 200-500k. That's just sad.

How do you know that Ndour would be more effective than Atkins? You don't know. Apparently the Knicks feel Atkins is worth taking a look at. Perhaps they feel he has a shot to prove if he deserves to make the roster and that his skills and physical talent may be a better fit than Ndour. It's not hard to understand why they might feel a 200 lbs forward might now be what they're looking for, no matter how he may have looked.

They obviously wanted N'dour that were just cheap. They even wanted to get him to backout of a verbal agreement with Dallas. I get that you have a hard time saying Phil made a mistake and that's cool.

Also, N'dour showed potential on both sides of the ball while Atkins didn't show much when the man lights came on. However like I said before it's not about either or because Atkins could have been camp invite too.

http://nypost.com/2015/07/28/why-knicks-last-ditch-effort-to-sign-maurice-ndour-fell-short/

I agree that it's not necessarily an either or situation with Ndour and Atkins, since there will be plenty of spots in TC. IMO if they felt Ndour was a player they simply couldn't take a chance with losing then they would've locked him up with a more substantial initial offer. Even if they did make another offer late, I have to imagine that Phil and his staff had to know Ndour would get other offers after his SL showing. Dallas is a bit more aggressive at this point after all that happened to them.

Atkins did show offensive potential at the PIT. I suppose that it's possible he wasn't put in the same position in SL that he was at the PIT. Who knows for sure. In any event we'll get a look at him down the line. Maybe we'll see Ndour again too.

If that was the case they would not have tried to counter. The misjudge the situation tried to be cheap on and already cheap deal and it back fired.

Also, regarding Atkins and his PIT showing, it can hardly be trusted because of how bad he was in college. SL, PIT, and the combine should be a validation of what you see on the film of a player in college. Yes, there will always be exceptions to the rule but more likely than not you get a Iman Shumpert on offense.

N'dour is someone that can make your team.`He showed you that his college ability at a small school is affective against a higher level of competition. His stroke was pure with a high release and on op of his offense he gave you energy and defense. Atkins is a camp invite that will likely go overseas and develop some offense.

martin wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:TPercy
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?

Atkins is interesting. He doesn't look or move like his defensive numbers suggest. He sort of sneaks up on you in a way.
For sure they will see how he defends centers. I am still a bit down on letting NDour go. But let's see what Atkins can do on offense....

Defensive Player of the Year... Think of how many are playing in college and 1 guy wins it. (Albeit in limited minutes.) He might surprise us.

didnt know that... although its the ACC and didnt Toney Douglas win it there?

Either way my point wasnt TPercy is WRONG, just rather wait and see. How big is the talent gap between NDour and Atkins? Lets just see how he fits

I think the big difference is that Atkins actually has the build to bang a bit more than Ndour. They listed Ndor at 200 lbs and Atkins is 240.

Atkins posted modest stats during his four-year career at Virginia before exploding onto the scene at the NBA’s Portsmouth Invitational in the spring. In three games, he averaged 20.0 points, 10.3 rebounds and 3.7 blocks and made the All-Tournament Team.

“He came in and just played solid,” said NBA Senior Director of Scouting Ryan Blake. “He played like a veteran. Defensively and offensively — he opened up a lot of eyes for NBA teams.

“He showed touch, instincts, composure — everything. His field goal percentage was great. He showed a lot.”

Added Jonathan Givony of NBA Draft Express: “He was really impressive. He was one of the best big guys there, without a doubt.”

Atkins will be looking to join former Virginia teammate Justin Anderson in the NBA. Anderson was a first-round pick of the Dallas Mavericks last month.

“It won’t be a dream come true until I’m on a team,” Atkins told The Daily Progress just after the draft.

He’s getting closer.

Wow, didn't realize the difference in weight there. Still a bit sad about Ndour due to his offensive potential. But perhaps Atkins shows us something, like in the PIT tournament was it? Didn't he win MVP or the like?

I think some of us need to stop doubting Phil and his staffs talent evaluation. Especially with a guy we may not have been watching but they were. His scouts are fully informed about what Phil is looking for and even tho Ndour didn't work out they may have been more focused on Atkins and maybe for a good reason. We won't know until Pre Season but I find it interesting that some fans actually think the Knicks aren't aware of what we see. They could see what we saw in Ndour, but they also have a lot more info than we do. They have their own plans for the roster which we can't know being on the outside.

They could see Atkins and Saunders as D League roster guys or possibly more. By the time we get to camp i'm sure there will be other players we may be surprised by.

More weight does not mean more effective. Taj Gibson weighed 214 lbs and same in hanging with the big boys.

Also, signing N'dour doesn't mean you can't sign Atkins. The problem is being so heap not to explore a potential cheap talent because it would cost an extra 200-500k. That's just sad.

How do you know that Ndour would be more effective than Atkins? You don't know. Apparently the Knicks feel Atkins is worth taking a look at. Perhaps they feel he has a shot to prove if he deserves to make the roster and that his skills and physical talent may be a better fit than Ndour. It's not hard to understand why they might feel a 200 lbs forward might now be what they're looking for, no matter how he may have looked.

They obviously wanted N'dour that were just cheap. They even wanted to get him to backout of a verbal agreement with Dallas. I get that you have a hard time saying Phil made a mistake and that's cool.

Also, N'dour showed potential on both sides of the ball while Atkins didn't show much when the man lights came on. However like I said before it's not about either or because Atkins could have been camp invite too.

http://nypost.com/2015/07/28/why-knicks-last-ditch-effort-to-sign-maurice-ndour-fell-short/

I dont understand the concept of being cheap with minimum players? If a guy makes 600 or 800K W is the difference if you believe in his skills? The NY Knicks--NOT 1 time NOT ONCE never have given a 2nd round pick a 3 or 4 year deal. If Langston Galloway has a good year this year financially he could absorb our free agent money because the Knicks did not add minimum option years. Thats on Phil Jackson--he cant say at the end if the year well we did not anticipate--uh thats your job... Im sure theyll be happy if L Gallo plays well but if he plays well enough to command 5-7mm????!!??

Exactly, it all doesn't make much sense. What is the difference. Show some reward just like you did with the two vets who you overpaid for (Amundson and Thomas).
I know that Phil has a plan, but we have more cap left then he even planned on. Now we are "settling" for a good defender in Atkins but with (it looks like) little offense.

Nixluva - Your name says it all! lol I realize, as we all do, from your posts, that Phil and the Knicks can do little wrong. I think a little bit more complaining would make some of your arguments sound a little more believable. You are nice to have on board, regardless.

My understanding from the article is that NDour got a full year guarantee for next year and a partial for the following... off of a couple of SL games?

Not for nothing, but I think Phil made the prudent choice. Guys got to prove themselves for more than just a spattering of games that aren't even at the top level. Dallas was desperate and NDour right place,
right time.

We should be happy that we aren't bidding against ourselves and just throwing around money like drunken sailors, right? Even if it is for vet mins.

Lance Thomas and Lou Amundson signings goes against this. They actually count against the cap unlike N'dour. Also, it was not just a couple of SL games it was that he displayed the same traits he showed at a small school on the SL level. His talent transferred and showed that he belonged on this level and should be payed like a minimum player.

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

martin wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:TPercy
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?

Atkins is interesting. He doesn't look or move like his defensive numbers suggest. He sort of sneaks up on you in a way.
For sure they will see how he defends centers. I am still a bit down on letting NDour go. But let's see what Atkins can do on offense....

Defensive Player of the Year... Think of how many are playing in college and 1 guy wins it. (Albeit in limited minutes.) He might surprise us.

didnt know that... although its the ACC and didnt Toney Douglas win it there?

Either way my point wasnt TPercy is WRONG, just rather wait and see. How big is the talent gap between NDour and Atkins? Lets just see how he fits

I think the big difference is that Atkins actually has the build to bang a bit more than Ndour. They listed Ndor at 200 lbs and Atkins is 240.

Atkins posted modest stats during his four-year career at Virginia before exploding onto the scene at the NBA’s Portsmouth Invitational in the spring. In three games, he averaged 20.0 points, 10.3 rebounds and 3.7 blocks and made the All-Tournament Team.

“He came in and just played solid,” said NBA Senior Director of Scouting Ryan Blake. “He played like a veteran. Defensively and offensively — he opened up a lot of eyes for NBA teams.

“He showed touch, instincts, composure — everything. His field goal percentage was great. He showed a lot.”

Added Jonathan Givony of NBA Draft Express: “He was really impressive. He was one of the best big guys there, without a doubt.”

Atkins will be looking to join former Virginia teammate Justin Anderson in the NBA. Anderson was a first-round pick of the Dallas Mavericks last month.

“It won’t be a dream come true until I’m on a team,” Atkins told The Daily Progress just after the draft.

He’s getting closer.

Wow, didn't realize the difference in weight there. Still a bit sad about Ndour due to his offensive potential. But perhaps Atkins shows us something, like in the PIT tournament was it? Didn't he win MVP or the like?

I think some of us need to stop doubting Phil and his staffs talent evaluation. Especially with a guy we may not have been watching but they were. His scouts are fully informed about what Phil is looking for and even tho Ndour didn't work out they may have been more focused on Atkins and maybe for a good reason. We won't know until Pre Season but I find it interesting that some fans actually think the Knicks aren't aware of what we see. They could see what we saw in Ndour, but they also have a lot more info than we do. They have their own plans for the roster which we can't know being on the outside.

They could see Atkins and Saunders as D League roster guys or possibly more. By the time we get to camp i'm sure there will be other players we may be surprised by.

More weight does not mean more effective. Taj Gibson weighed 214 lbs and same in hanging with the big boys.

Also, signing N'dour doesn't mean you can't sign Atkins. The problem is being so heap not to explore a potential cheap talent because it would cost an extra 200-500k. That's just sad.

How do you know that Ndour would be more effective than Atkins? You don't know. Apparently the Knicks feel Atkins is worth taking a look at. Perhaps they feel he has a shot to prove if he deserves to make the roster and that his skills and physical talent may be a better fit than Ndour. It's not hard to understand why they might feel a 200 lbs forward might now be what they're looking for, no matter how he may have looked.

They obviously wanted N'dour that were just cheap. They even wanted to get him to backout of a verbal agreement with Dallas. I get that you have a hard time saying Phil made a mistake and that's cool.

Also, N'dour showed potential on both sides of the ball while Atkins didn't show much when the man lights came on. However like I said before it's not about either or because Atkins could have been camp invite too.

http://nypost.com/2015/07/28/why-knicks-last-ditch-effort-to-sign-maurice-ndour-fell-short/

I dont understand the concept of being cheap with minimum players? If a guy makes 600 or 800K W is the difference if you believe in his skills? The NY Knicks--NOT 1 time NOT ONCE never have given a 2nd round pick a 3 or 4 year deal. If Langston Galloway has a good year this year financially he could absorb our free agent money because the Knicks did not add minimum option years. Thats on Phil Jackson--he cant say at the end if the year well we did not anticipate--uh thats your job... Im sure theyll be happy if L Gallo plays well but if he plays well enough to command 5-7mm????!!??

Exactly, it all doesn't make much sense. What is the difference. Show some reward just like you did with the two vets who you overpaid for (Amundson and Thomas).
I know that Phil has a plan, but we have more cap left then he even planned on. Now we are "settling" for a good defender in Atkins but with (it looks like) little offense.

Nixluva - Your name says it all! lol I realize, as we all do, from your posts, that Phil and the Knicks can do little wrong. I think a little bit more complaining would make some of your arguments sound a little more believable. You are nice to have on board, regardless.

My understanding from the article is that NDour got a full year guarantee for next year and a partial for the following... off of a couple of SL games?

Not for nothing, but I think Phil made the prudent choice. Guys got to prove themselves for more than just a spattering of games that aren't even at the top level. Dallas was desperate and NDour right place,
right time.

We should be happy that we aren't bidding against ourselves and just throwing around money like drunken sailors, right? Even if it is for vet mins.

Lance Thomas and Lou Amundson signings goes against this. They actually count against the cap unlike N'dour. Also, it was not just a couple of SL games it was that he displayed the same traits he showed at a small school on the SL level. His talent transferred and showed that he belonged on this level and should be payed like a minimum player.

Yes but Phil and Fish know what LT and Lou can at the NBA level. It's more of a risk with a kid like Ndour who you really only saw for a few SL games. I mean we really can't compare the 2 situations. Actual NBA players vs. a kid you saw flash in a few SL games is not a good comparison.

Yes, We all know what LT and Lou can do at the NBA level, suck. The entire league knows they suck and are vet minimum type players but the knicks use cap space to pay those two good guys.

However, when it comes to a player that might have actual potential to excel they get cheap on a contract where they only have to pay part of. That's silly and dumb.

It's kind of like Vcoug said about the phil-files, "everything is a contradiction", you can't use the save money excuse when you can't point to two examples of not saving money.

You can't say, they didn't want him, when they tried to get him to back out a verbal agreement on top of that they actively recruited him to their summer league because of his play in college.

Whatever though, its over and done with.

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

martin wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:TPercy
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say?

Atkins is interesting. He doesn't look or move like his defensive numbers suggest. He sort of sneaks up on you in a way.
For sure they will see how he defends centers. I am still a bit down on letting NDour go. But let's see what Atkins can do on offense....

Defensive Player of the Year... Think of how many are playing in college and 1 guy wins it. (Albeit in limited minutes.) He might surprise us.

didnt know that... although its the ACC and didnt Toney Douglas win it there?

Either way my point wasnt TPercy is WRONG, just rather wait and see. How big is the talent gap between NDour and Atkins? Lets just see how he fits

I think the big difference is that Atkins actually has the build to bang a bit more than Ndour. They listed Ndor at 200 lbs and Atkins is 240.

Atkins posted modest stats during his four-year career at Virginia before exploding onto the scene at the NBA’s Portsmouth Invitational in the spring. In three games, he averaged 20.0 points, 10.3 rebounds and 3.7 blocks and made the All-Tournament Team.

“He came in and just played solid,” said NBA Senior Director of Scouting Ryan Blake. “He played like a veteran. Defensively and offensively — he opened up a lot of eyes for NBA teams.

“He showed touch, instincts, composure — everything. His field goal percentage was great. He showed a lot.”

Added Jonathan Givony of NBA Draft Express: “He was really impressive. He was one of the best big guys there, without a doubt.”

Atkins will be looking to join former Virginia teammate Justin Anderson in the NBA. Anderson was a first-round pick of the Dallas Mavericks last month.

“It won’t be a dream come true until I’m on a team,” Atkins told The Daily Progress just after the draft.

He’s getting closer.

Wow, didn't realize the difference in weight there. Still a bit sad about Ndour due to his offensive potential. But perhaps Atkins shows us something, like in the PIT tournament was it? Didn't he win MVP or the like?

I think some of us need to stop doubting Phil and his staffs talent evaluation. Especially with a guy we may not have been watching but they were. His scouts are fully informed about what Phil is looking for and even tho Ndour didn't work out they may have been more focused on Atkins and maybe for a good reason. We won't know until Pre Season but I find it interesting that some fans actually think the Knicks aren't aware of what we see. They could see what we saw in Ndour, but they also have a lot more info than we do. They have their own plans for the roster which we can't know being on the outside.

They could see Atkins and Saunders as D League roster guys or possibly more. By the time we get to camp i'm sure there will be other players we may be surprised by.

More weight does not mean more effective. Taj Gibson weighed 214 lbs and same in hanging with the big boys.

Also, signing N'dour doesn't mean you can't sign Atkins. The problem is being so heap not to explore a potential cheap talent because it would cost an extra 200-500k. That's just sad.

How do you know that Ndour would be more effective than Atkins? You don't know. Apparently the Knicks feel Atkins is worth taking a look at. Perhaps they feel he has a shot to prove if he deserves to make the roster and that his skills and physical talent may be a better fit than Ndour. It's not hard to understand why they might feel a 200 lbs forward might now be what they're looking for, no matter how he may have looked.

They obviously wanted N'dour that were just cheap. They even wanted to get him to backout of a verbal agreement with Dallas. I get that you have a hard time saying Phil made a mistake and that's cool.

Also, N'dour showed potential on both sides of the ball while Atkins didn't show much when the man lights came on. However like I said before it's not about either or because Atkins could have been camp invite too.

http://nypost.com/2015/07/28/why-knicks-last-ditch-effort-to-sign-maurice-ndour-fell-short/

I dont understand the concept of being cheap with minimum players? If a guy makes 600 or 800K W is the difference if you believe in his skills? The NY Knicks--NOT 1 time NOT ONCE never have given a 2nd round pick a 3 or 4 year deal. If Langston Galloway has a good year this year financially he could absorb our free agent money because the Knicks did not add minimum option years. Thats on Phil Jackson--he cant say at the end if the year well we did not anticipate--uh thats your job... Im sure theyll be happy if L Gallo plays well but if he plays well enough to command 5-7mm????!!??

Exactly, it all doesn't make much sense. What is the difference. Show some reward just like you did with the two vets who you overpaid for (Amundson and Thomas).
I know that Phil has a plan, but we have more cap left then he even planned on. Now we are "settling" for a good defender in Atkins but with (it looks like) little offense.

Nixluva - Your name says it all! lol I realize, as we all do, from your posts, that Phil and the Knicks can do little wrong. I think a little bit more complaining would make some of your arguments sound a little more believable. You are nice to have on board, regardless.

My understanding from the article is that NDour got a full year guarantee for next year and a partial for the following... off of a couple of SL games?

Not for nothing, but I think Phil made the prudent choice. Guys got to prove themselves for more than just a spattering of games that aren't even at the top level. Dallas was desperate and NDour right place,
right time.

We should be happy that we aren't bidding against ourselves and just throwing around money like drunken sailors, right? Even if it is for vet mins.

Lance Thomas and Lou Amundson signings goes against this. They actually count against the cap unlike N'dour. Also, it was not just a couple of SL games it was that he displayed the same traits he showed at a small school on the SL level. His talent transferred and showed that he belonged on this level and should be payed like a minimum player.

Yes but Phil and Fish know what LT and Lou can at the NBA level. It's more of a risk with a kid like Ndour who you really only saw for a few SL games. I mean we really can't compare the 2 situations. Actual NBA players vs. a kid you saw flash in a few SL games is not a good comparison.

You honestly don't consider Maurice Ndour a higher-end talent and therefore more of a priority to keep over LT or Lou Amundson? Or Alexey Shved for that matter? This is where people seem to be split on this issue. A good-looking young player with a promising future beyond just this coming year vs. 2 fringe NBA hanger-ons...See for me, Lance and Lou's "experience" means very little, so little I don't even consider it an asset when talking about either player.. They're not good players, certainly not good enough to get the guaranteed, cap-impacting money they did, not when there were still more-talented, higher-priority players out there we should've been focused on adding/motivated to bring back. I still think we should be in the accumulation phase in terms of bringing in talent, definitely before overspending to bring back two players who offer so little....Not trying to be a dick by any means--just asking a legit basketball pound for pound talent comparison question, taking all available info into account--Ndour's very good college numbers across the board, his SL play, Alexey Shved's very good body of work as a primary player with the ball in his hands within the triangle system, etc..

nixluva wrote:

Finestrg wrote:You honestly don't consider Maurice Ndour a higher-end talent and therefore more of a priority to keep over LT or Lou Amundson? Or Alexey Shved for that matter? This is where people seem to be split on this issue. A good-looking young player with a promising future beyond just this coming year vs. 2 fringe NBA hanger-ons...See for me, Lance and Lou's "experience" means very little, so little I don't even consider it an asset when talking about either player.. They're not good players, certainly not good enough to get the guaranteed, cap-impacting money they did, not when there were still more-talented, higher-priority players out there we should've been focused on adding/motivated to bring back. I still think we should be in the accumulation phase in terms of bringing in talent, definitely before overspending to bring back two players who offer so little....Not trying to be a dick by any means--just asking a legit basketball pound for pound talent comparison question, taking all available info into account--Ndour's very good college numbers across the board, his SL play, Alexey Shved's very good body of work as a primary player with the ball in his hands within the triangle system, etc..

I think as i've said in other posts that we have to remember that we don't always look at things from Phil's standpoint. I liked Shved and was a big supporter of him before most of the forum was believing in him. I think that in Shved's case Phil had a price on him and wasn't willing to go above that price. This all comes after he added Jerian and Afflalo to the mix, who he most likely believes will soak up a good amount of the minutes along with Jose and Gallo. So in Phil's calculation the spot that Shved would now be filling isn't as high as it was when he didn't have Jerian and Afflalo in the mix. The spot left is just a low cost spot from what I can gather at this point. Some fans just aren't thinking about how the roster has changed and that maybe Phil just wasn't as hard up for Shved after he added 2 better players to the roster.

As for Ndour, I know he was pretty impressive in SL but it didn't work out as Phil may have planned, given the really over the top offer that Dallas made. Dallas was in a much more desperate position. We already have forwards who we know can actually function in the offense and defend. People may not like LT and Lou but they're proven to be good in practice and can fill in during games with no problem. We have guys ahead of them that will be rotation players. We have about 2 spots left and all of this Phil criticism seems a bit overdone.

What I think this really says about those who are making a huge deal about this is that they don't really have much faith in the players we have who are most likely to be major rotation players for this team and not very likely to be pushed out by anyone we add from here.

1.  Melo 
2.  RoLo 
3.  Afflalo 
4.  Jerian 
5.  KP 
6.  Jose 
7.  Galloway 
8.  O'Quinn
9.  DWill 
10. Early
11. Ledo
12. LT
13. Lou
14. Saunders???
15. Atkins???

NixLuva FEELS WHATEVER PHIL JACKSON DOES IS THE CHOICE OF GOD and CAN NOT BE WRONG
HE IS HERE TO PREACH HIS KNOWLEDGE OF THE PYRAMIDS
PRIOR, DANTONI WAS HIS LEADER and STILL STAYS LOYAL TO HIM TODAY
WHEN Phi Jackson said the 3point comments, it put NixLuva in a awkward situation, a disciple of both PJ and

Hey NixLuva, this is a message board, unless you know Phil Jackson personally, please do not preach what you think what he thinks you and can channel his inner thoughts
You come off as VERY FAKE to me and it is to the point that that just justify EVERY MOVE of Phil Jackson, his roster, and his moves/or lack of moves, ALL IS THE BEST DIRECTION FOR THE TEAM

For God Sakes you were one of the HUGE SUPPORTERS for a TRADE IN AB, justifying it as a steal with 2010 videos on him while skipping the other years
He was an amnesty candidate that we used 1 1st rounder, 2 2nd rounders on, and if we added in a future 1st rounder we easily would have got multiple choices to choose from, 2nd/3rd tier STAR like a Battum

If you job is to convince Phil Jackson with your "fake supporters" you are not doing a very good job in fact you are doing the opposite with the annoyance factor

FineStrng IS RIGHT, just let him vent about it and ALL he has to say about it

Derrick Williams

Shved
AB

Then N Dour

but RESIGNING both Lance Thomas and Lou Amundson with 3m COMBINED, that we could use for other FA's
While we are penny pinching with the other FA's that have more potential/skill/upside/trade value than both our 15th man in Lou Amundson and LANCE THOMAS
We offered Shved the vet min, we didnt offer AB ANY CONTRACT, N Dour has the upside to be higher than Derrick Williams while Williams has at least 10m invested in to him for the next 2 years

I like Derrick Williams, however, he has NO LEVERAGE on his contract, he is closer to a vet min to 3m at best with a TEAM OPTION on 2nd year
With players like Gereld Green, Wesley Johnson, and Josh Smith signing vet min contracts, those guys are better players than Derrick Williams
He simply was not a NEED that we should have used leverage against with the way he has struggled the past couple of seasons