holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TPercy wrote:

holfresh wrote:They call RoLo a defensive player because there is no other way to describe him..He has no offensive game..This 7 footer rebounds less than than his brother, 6.7 per game, which is also less than Melo, who is a perimeter player...

when you take away the rebounding numbers, you have 0 clue what you are talking about.

I have zero clue of what I'm talking about???..Please post me RoLo's playoff stats from 2015..I watched the playoffs..RoLo was non existent and on the bench in crunch time..23 min, 5 pts, 4.4 reb...I have no clue who u think u were getting..

You can talk ish about RoLo but at least he helped his team make the playoffs and in the toughest Conference. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on RoLo's playoff performance. The Blazers were a mess in the playoffs and it wasn't RoLo's fault. He's there to support the effort and not lead the effort. If other key players aren't doing their job it puts pressure on the role players to do more than they should and can have an adverse effect.

The Grizz were one of the better teams in the league and the Blazers had some real defensive issues with their guards. Lillard and Blake are bad defenders and Afflalo was injured. They just couldn't put up a great defense. I think it's just too simplistic to look at a bad playoff series and conclude that the players aren't going to bring value off of that. You could do the same exercise with all losing teams in the playoffs.

Why do u take such offense to facts if it doesn't suit your narrative..Why would u get pissed if I said RoLo stats were 23 min 5 pts 4 reb for the playoffs...Are u pissed at ESPN for posting them??

his usage went down significantly with the blazers... playing with aldridge and lilliard, who both dominated the ball, will have that kind of negative affect.

Point was he couldn't help them in the playoffs because he doesn't have that kind of game...We essentially needed a body in the middle..

No the point is that maybe the Blazers didn't use RoLo to his best ability. LMA and Lillard forcing up bad shots doesn't help RoLo or the team work better. RoLo can score efficiently if you give him the opportunities and your offense isn't as predictable as the Blazers became. Here in NY we will make better use of all of our players. All players get to play a significant role rather than watching 2 guys take all the shots and hog the ball. You can't help if you're ignored. The Blazers style of play was faulty.

He wasn't ignored he was benched...Bu that's not a bad thing or anything to be upset about..He is what he is..He wont change because he is in a Knick uni...He will be useful because we need bodies..But don't expect much..

They never really gave RoLo a chance to be more of a factor. This offense will at least keep him involved. That's not to say he'll be the focus of the offense, but he won't be totally ignored. This system is about Ball and Player movement. Everyone touches the ball. Everyone can be a scoring threat. Sharing the ball and constant motion will create more good scoring opportunities for RoLo and everyone on this roster. This roster is built on team oriented players who are willing passers.

Yeah, you said that after you got thru blaming JR for ruining the triangle..The team got worse running that stuff.. But U can live in that fantasy world..

I have no idea what your talking about. The team actually got better after the trade. 5-35 before and 12-30 after. And that was without Melo for much of that time. If Melo was healthy they would've won a lot more games after the trade.

Look you can have your pissy attitude towards what the team is doing but you're sounding foolish given the way things have panned out this summer. It's very likely that this mix of players will be the right mix and be more successful. This is just stage one of this new direction. It's not about the individuals which you seem to keep focusing on. It's about how the team functions as a whole. It's not just a cliche it's the truth. You can judge this team on what the individual names mean to you. Seems like you're stuck with the old way of thinking and need to get up to speed on what this team is about now.

Yeah I have a pissy attitude after a 17 win season..What is your excuse for having a pissy attitude during a 54 win season and second round playoff appearance??

The poor end to the 54 win season didn't have to be. No need to go back over all that crap. I'm living in the present perhaps you should join us rather than living in a time bubble and stewing in negativity. There's a lot of really good stuff happening if you care to pay attention to it.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TPercy wrote:

holfresh wrote:They call RoLo a defensive player because there is no other way to describe him..He has no offensive game..This 7 footer rebounds less than than his brother, 6.7 per game, which is also less than Melo, who is a perimeter player...

when you take away the rebounding numbers, you have 0 clue what you are talking about.

I have zero clue of what I'm talking about???..Please post me RoLo's playoff stats from 2015..I watched the playoffs..RoLo was non existent and on the bench in crunch time..23 min, 5 pts, 4.4 reb...I have no clue who u think u were getting..

You can talk ish about RoLo but at least he helped his team make the playoffs and in the toughest Conference. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on RoLo's playoff performance. The Blazers were a mess in the playoffs and it wasn't RoLo's fault. He's there to support the effort and not lead the effort. If other key players aren't doing their job it puts pressure on the role players to do more than they should and can have an adverse effect.

The Grizz were one of the better teams in the league and the Blazers had some real defensive issues with their guards. Lillard and Blake are bad defenders and Afflalo was injured. They just couldn't put up a great defense. I think it's just too simplistic to look at a bad playoff series and conclude that the players aren't going to bring value off of that. You could do the same exercise with all losing teams in the playoffs.

Why do u take such offense to facts if it doesn't suit your narrative..Why would u get pissed if I said RoLo stats were 23 min 5 pts 4 reb for the playoffs...Are u pissed at ESPN for posting them??

his usage went down significantly with the blazers... playing with aldridge and lilliard, who both dominated the ball, will have that kind of negative affect.

Point was he couldn't help them in the playoffs because he doesn't have that kind of game...We essentially needed a body in the middle..

No the point is that maybe the Blazers didn't use RoLo to his best ability. LMA and Lillard forcing up bad shots doesn't help RoLo or the team work better. RoLo can score efficiently if you give him the opportunities and your offense isn't as predictable as the Blazers became. Here in NY we will make better use of all of our players. All players get to play a significant role rather than watching 2 guys take all the shots and hog the ball. You can't help if you're ignored. The Blazers style of play was faulty.

He wasn't ignored he was benched...Bu that's not a bad thing or anything to be upset about..He is what he is..He wont change because he is in a Knick uni...He will be useful because we need bodies..But don't expect much..

They never really gave RoLo a chance to be more of a factor. This offense will at least keep him involved. That's not to say he'll be the focus of the offense, but he won't be totally ignored. This system is about Ball and Player movement. Everyone touches the ball. Everyone can be a scoring threat. Sharing the ball and constant motion will create more good scoring opportunities for RoLo and everyone on this roster. This roster is built on team oriented players who are willing passers.

Yeah, you said that after you got thru blaming JR for ruining the triangle..The team got worse running that stuff.. But U can live in that fantasy world..

I have no idea what your talking about. The team actually got better after the trade. 5-35 before and 12-30 after. And that was without Melo for much of that time. If Melo was healthy they would've won a lot more games after the trade.

Look you can have your pissy attitude towards what the team is doing but you're sounding foolish given the way things have panned out this summer. It's very likely that this mix of players will be the right mix and be more successful. This is just stage one of this new direction. It's not about the individuals which you seem to keep focusing on. It's about how the team functions as a whole. It's not just a cliche it's the truth. You can judge this team on what the individual names mean to you. Seems like you're stuck with the old way of thinking and need to get up to speed on what this team is about now.

Yeah I have a pissy attitude after a 17 win season..What is your excuse for having a pissy attitude during a 54 win season and second round playoff appearance??

The 17 win season had a purpose. We know why they stunk and we didn't try to cover it over with more bad moves. Now we see the positive fruits of that course of action.

The poor end to the 54 win season didn't have to be. No need to go back over all that crap. I'm living in the present perhaps you should join us rather than living in a time bubble and stewing in negativity. There's a lot of really good stuff happening if you care to pay attention to it.

When MDA ran off and you were killing Woodson his entire tenure, it wasn't stewing on negativity then was it??..18-6 wasn't good stuff happening right, 54 wins wasn't good stuff either..We now wish this crew can muster Woody's 37 win season..

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TPercy wrote:

holfresh wrote:They call RoLo a defensive player because there is no other way to describe him..He has no offensive game..This 7 footer rebounds less than than his brother, 6.7 per game, which is also less than Melo, who is a perimeter player...

when you take away the rebounding numbers, you have 0 clue what you are talking about.

I have zero clue of what I'm talking about???..Please post me RoLo's playoff stats from 2015..I watched the playoffs..RoLo was non existent and on the bench in crunch time..23 min, 5 pts, 4.4 reb...I have no clue who u think u were getting..

You can talk ish about RoLo but at least he helped his team make the playoffs and in the toughest Conference. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on RoLo's playoff performance. The Blazers were a mess in the playoffs and it wasn't RoLo's fault. He's there to support the effort and not lead the effort. If other key players aren't doing their job it puts pressure on the role players to do more than they should and can have an adverse effect.

The Grizz were one of the better teams in the league and the Blazers had some real defensive issues with their guards. Lillard and Blake are bad defenders and Afflalo was injured. They just couldn't put up a great defense. I think it's just too simplistic to look at a bad playoff series and conclude that the players aren't going to bring value off of that. You could do the same exercise with all losing teams in the playoffs.

Why do u take such offense to facts if it doesn't suit your narrative..Why would u get pissed if I said RoLo stats were 23 min 5 pts 4 reb for the playoffs...Are u pissed at ESPN for posting them??

his usage went down significantly with the blazers... playing with aldridge and lilliard, who both dominated the ball, will have that kind of negative affect.

Point was he couldn't help them in the playoffs because he doesn't have that kind of game...We essentially needed a body in the middle..

No the point is that maybe the Blazers didn't use RoLo to his best ability. LMA and Lillard forcing up bad shots doesn't help RoLo or the team work better. RoLo can score efficiently if you give him the opportunities and your offense isn't as predictable as the Blazers became. Here in NY we will make better use of all of our players. All players get to play a significant role rather than watching 2 guys take all the shots and hog the ball. You can't help if you're ignored. The Blazers style of play was faulty.

He wasn't ignored he was benched...Bu that's not a bad thing or anything to be upset about..He is what he is..He wont change because he is in a Knick uni...He will be useful because we need bodies..But don't expect much..

They never really gave RoLo a chance to be more of a factor. This offense will at least keep him involved. That's not to say he'll be the focus of the offense, but he won't be totally ignored. This system is about Ball and Player movement. Everyone touches the ball. Everyone can be a scoring threat. Sharing the ball and constant motion will create more good scoring opportunities for RoLo and everyone on this roster. This roster is built on team oriented players who are willing passers.

Yeah, you said that after you got thru blaming JR for ruining the triangle..The team got worse running that stuff.. But U can live in that fantasy world..

I have no idea what your talking about. The team actually got better after the trade. 5-35 before and 12-30 after. And that was without Melo for much of that time. If Melo was healthy they would've won a lot more games after the trade.

Look you can have your pissy attitude towards what the team is doing but you're sounding foolish given the way things have panned out this summer. It's very likely that this mix of players will be the right mix and be more successful. This is just stage one of this new direction. It's not about the individuals which you seem to keep focusing on. It's about how the team functions as a whole. It's not just a cliche it's the truth. You can judge this team on what the individual names mean to you. Seems like you're stuck with the old way of thinking and need to get up to speed on what this team is about now.

Yeah I have a pissy attitude after a 17 win season..What is your excuse for having a pissy attitude during a 54 win season and second round playoff appearance??

The 17 win season had a purpose. We know why they stunk and we didn't try to cover it over with more bad moves. Now we see the positive fruits of that course of action.

The poor end to the 54 win season didn't have to be. No need to go back over all that crap. I'm living in the present perhaps you should join us rather than living in a time bubble and stewing in negativity. There's a lot of really good stuff happening if you care to pay attention to it.

When MDA ran off and you were killing Woodson his entire tenure, it wasn't stewing on negativity then was it??..18-6 wasn't good stuff happening right, 54 wins wasn't good stuff either..We now wish this crew can muster Woody's 37 win season..

I have no idea what you're talking about. Woody didn't even change the offense when he took over, so why would I be negative about the offense. All I was saying is that he wasn't the reason the team suddenly started playing harder the very day MDA left and he didn't really substantively change anything that the team was doing. I pointed out that players and coaches stated it was the same offense for a good while until Woody started to fall back on more ISO stuff. In the 54 win season Woody eventually ended up relying heavily on ISO later in the season and in the Playoffs. That's the stuff I had issues with.

You really are trying to change the subject tho. I'm not the one living in the past and bringing up old ish. What you're complaining about now seems off base given what Phil has done this summer. That's the issue here. You seem to not have the willingness to acknowledge that things are better than they were.

-Everyone is saying we whiffed on Monroe. Since January/February the one constant on Monroe was he wasn't a 15 mil a year player. So the Knicks don't offer Monroe a max deal and he signs with the Bucks for his max. Now the people crying that they shouldn't give him a max are crying that the Knicks "whiffed" or Jackson "couldn't close the deal". Which is it? To get him you had to give him his max. And once again, he didn't decide on the Bucks, nor did he "spurn" the Knicks offer. He didn't even get an offer from them.

-Where did all these top FA go? Contenders. Gasol stayed. LA went to SA with his "promise" not to play center. And before the "but he met with Miami crowd" chimes in, Miami still has Wade and Bosh. Don't get me started on DeAndre.

-Guys like Carroll and Green are super solid role players. Not players worth the max.

-No restricted FA's changed teams.

-The guys he traded, people have short memories on. I loved Chandler but he was a malcontent here and seems everyone had forgotten playoff no-shows (literal and figurative). Maybe he was trying to be a leader pointing fingers at everyone. Maybe he was still a defensive force. And maybe Jackson knew he wasn't resigning Chandler and figured his value wouldn't get any better here if his attitude didn't improve. Or maybe Chandler asked to be traded.
-Shumpert was injury prone. He was going to get traded for a pick to OKC and he got hurt that night. I'm sure. that helped his value.
-Smith was a freaking head case who was so awesome in Cleveland after his trade he can't even get an offer from one of the 32 teams who can bid on his services.
-He

Phil hasn't been perfect. The Williams signing was weird and a bit overpriced. Honestly not thrilled about the Fisher hire, to be honest. But he has a vision and he hasn't had a whole lot of time on the job. I actually see where he is going and I can't say I mind it.

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TPercy wrote:

holfresh wrote:They call RoLo a defensive player because there is no other way to describe him..He has no offensive game..This 7 footer rebounds less than than his brother, 6.7 per game, which is also less than Melo, who is a perimeter player...

when you take away the rebounding numbers, you have 0 clue what you are talking about.

I have zero clue of what I'm talking about???..Please post me RoLo's playoff stats from 2015..I watched the playoffs..RoLo was non existent and on the bench in crunch time..23 min, 5 pts, 4.4 reb...I have no clue who u think u were getting..

You can talk ish about RoLo but at least he helped his team make the playoffs and in the toughest Conference. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on RoLo's playoff performance. The Blazers were a mess in the playoffs and it wasn't RoLo's fault. He's there to support the effort and not lead the effort. If other key players aren't doing their job it puts pressure on the role players to do more than they should and can have an adverse effect.

The Grizz were one of the better teams in the league and the Blazers had some real defensive issues with their guards. Lillard and Blake are bad defenders and Afflalo was injured. They just couldn't put up a great defense. I think it's just too simplistic to look at a bad playoff series and conclude that the players aren't going to bring value off of that. You could do the same exercise with all losing teams in the playoffs.

Why do u take such offense to facts if it doesn't suit your narrative..Why would u get pissed if I said RoLo stats were 23 min 5 pts 4 reb for the playoffs...Are u pissed at ESPN for posting them??

his usage went down significantly with the blazers... playing with aldridge and lilliard, who both dominated the ball, will have that kind of negative affect.

Point was he couldn't help them in the playoffs because he doesn't have that kind of game...We essentially needed a body in the middle..

No the point is that maybe the Blazers didn't use RoLo to his best ability. LMA and Lillard forcing up bad shots doesn't help RoLo or the team work better. RoLo can score efficiently if you give him the opportunities and your offense isn't as predictable as the Blazers became. Here in NY we will make better use of all of our players. All players get to play a significant role rather than watching 2 guys take all the shots and hog the ball. You can't help if you're ignored. The Blazers style of play was faulty.

He wasn't ignored he was benched...Bu that's not a bad thing or anything to be upset about..He is what he is..He wont change because he is in a Knick uni...He will be useful because we need bodies..But don't expect much..

They never really gave RoLo a chance to be more of a factor. This offense will at least keep him involved. That's not to say he'll be the focus of the offense, but he won't be totally ignored. This system is about Ball and Player movement. Everyone touches the ball. Everyone can be a scoring threat. Sharing the ball and constant motion will create more good scoring opportunities for RoLo and everyone on this roster. This roster is built on team oriented players who are willing passers.

Yeah, you said that after you got thru blaming JR for ruining the triangle..The team got worse running that stuff.. But U can live in that fantasy world..

I have no idea what your talking about. The team actually got better after the trade. 5-35 before and 12-30 after. And that was without Melo for much of that time. If Melo was healthy they would've won a lot more games after the trade.

Look you can have your pissy attitude towards what the team is doing but you're sounding foolish given the way things have panned out this summer. It's very likely that this mix of players will be the right mix and be more successful. This is just stage one of this new direction. It's not about the individuals which you seem to keep focusing on. It's about how the team functions as a whole. It's not just a cliche it's the truth. You can judge this team on what the individual names mean to you. Seems like you're stuck with the old way of thinking and need to get up to speed on what this team is about now.

Yeah I have a pissy attitude after a 17 win season..What is your excuse for having a pissy attitude during a 54 win season and second round playoff appearance??

The 17 win season had a purpose. We know why they stunk and we didn't try to cover it over with more bad moves. Now we see the positive fruits of that course of action.

The poor end to the 54 win season didn't have to be. No need to go back over all that crap. I'm living in the present perhaps you should join us rather than living in a time bubble and stewing in negativity. There's a lot of really good stuff happening if you care to pay attention to it.

When MDA ran off and you were killing Woodson his entire tenure, it wasn't stewing on negativity then was it??..18-6 wasn't good stuff happening right, 54 wins wasn't good stuff either..We now wish this crew can muster Woody's 37 win season..

I have no idea what you're talking about. Woody didn't even change the offense when he took over, so why would I be negative about the offense. All I was saying is that he wasn't the reason the team suddenly started playing harder the very day MDA left and he didn't really substantively change anything that the team was doing. I pointed out that players and coaches stated it was the same offense for a good while until Woody started to fall back on more ISO stuff. In the 54 win season Woody eventually ended up relying heavily on ISO later in the season and in the Playoffs. That's the stuff I had issues with.

You really are trying to change the subject tho. I'm not the one living in the past and bringing up old ish. What you're complaining about now seems off base given what Phil has done this summer. That's the issue here. You seem to not have the willingness to acknowledge that things are better than they were.

The 17 win season is a fact of our present situation..Not the past..I'm just not lost in candy land..

lmao

nix Im afraid holfresh is right, as much as you don't want to dwell on the past, you were just as optimistic about last seasons moves, as you were about this season.

Calderon was suppose to be an upgrade, and look how that turned out. In fact, all the players were totally on board prior to the season. They all wanted the culture change, and welcome fisher and phil.

Jr, THJ, and melo were to benefit from the triangle like phils last 2 sg
Amare with his hakeem post moves, would be a solid fit in the triangle
shumpert was the next ron harper
Fisher was the player coach that could relate to the current NBA ballers.
Larkin, daly, quincy, all seem like solid pieces

How did that turn out?

I don't know how else to put this but what happened last year doesn't make your case for being pessimistic for this year. No matter how you try to predict it's always up to the players to buy in and give a max effort. With the talent of the players we had last year, they should've done better! Teams with a .500 record and worse made the playoffs in the East, so that team should've been able to compete better than they did. There was no reason to have expected such a poor start to the season from that team.

We started the year with Larkin and not Jose. No one was saying Larkin was the key to the season so lets stop that BS. Bargs was hurt. Things did not get off to the kind of start that was needed and key players didn't fully buy in. Then JR had a Plantar Fascia and Shump a shoulder. A losing mentality took over the team. WTF does any of that have to do with this year's team??? NOTHING. Even if we could duplicate the exact same circumstances it's still a completely different team and no way to say how these players would react to those same issues. You guys just love to bring it up since it's something negative to hold up as if that should inform what the team is about this year.

You have to assess this team independent of the team we had to start last year. It's a nearly completely different team than the roster we had to start last year. The top of the Rotation will be almost completely new. Larkin started 12 of the 1st 13 games and played major minutes over the course of the 1st 40 games in which the team went 5-35!!! How does that have any relevance to what the team will do this year?

RedmenBaller wrote:Just cant say that we got our moneys worth.

The Oakland Raiders just signed center Rodney Hudson, formerly of the KC Chiefs, to the largest contract ever given to an NFL center.

When you are treading the bottom of the standings, and have for a while, and have a negative rep of bad ownership and a dysfunctional franchise, you have to overpay guys to get there, and likely to any who WILL GO THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

The Knicks are the last dog at the bowl. Sorry, it's just the reality of being a bottom feeder team, that's true in any sport. It can change, it does change, but shifting the perception of your franchise takes time.

Honestly, Phil Jackson could do it, could jump start a perception change, he would just have to rip Melo a new one in the press. I mean no holds bar rip him up and down.

Matt Flynn has a nice fat two year deal with the Seahawks, but rookie Russell Wilson outplayed him, so Wilson got the job. In a lot of franchises, that wouldn't happen. Player notice stuff like that. So do agents. And GMs of other teams. The sports media will even notice. If a player feels by doing the right things and playing the right way, that he'll get playing time for it, he sees a functional meritocracy, which is the only way sports can truly function. Then players fall into line, then the winning takes care of itself, then players want to be there with you to win. Melo needs to be benched every time he refuses to play real defense. Doing that is real culture change. Finding quotes like nixluva does , that's not real culture change, that's just fluffy coach speak.

Melo has been enabled and coddled and given everything he wants. You won't attract players to that kind of situation.

martin wrote:Don't you think he has already started to do it?

With respect, once Melo played in the All Star game, despite needing season ending surgery, and admittedly did so for branding, to me that's not culture change.

And Phil Jackson and Steve Mills came out later and said it was a group decision, simply to cover tracks for it, so the front office could try to at least pretend they weren't emasculated IMHO by the whole process.

Now Bill Parcells, he was a genius at "culture change" He'd walk into a new franchise. Identify two veteran guys linked culturally within the old regime, then brutally cut one, then get the other to buy into the Parcell's team mantra and get others to tow that line. Then Parcells would infuse "his guys" into the roster to control the locker room. All the while, Parcells would work the press and use the media to his advantage.

Culture change IMHO requires all ships to sail in the same direction, with the same goal, willing to make the same sacrifices.

Melo risked the rest of his Knicks contract ( why does he care, it's guaranteed) to keep playing, for him. Not for the team. That's one guy putting himself above the team. You just can't win that way.

To me, this is what's needed. Phil Jackson dressing down Melo to the bare bone facts.

"Make an example for the younger guys. Be a leader. Can you do that?"

martin wrote:Dressing him down for no particular reason doesn't help anything either. You do pressure him to play both ends and ride him to do so every day. He is worth keeping around if you bring in another Alpha dog that is better than he is and I hope that turns out.

Honestly, I see it as the only viable option.

1) Melo seems overly concerned about his public perception and how the press, general public and NBA fans see him. Use that against him.

2) If Phil Jackson has one skill set far and above over any current NBA GM, if he has one true calling card outside of his coaching acumen, it's being able to manipulate the press and knowing how to use the press to push buttons and get what he wants out of it.

3) The Knicks have tried enabling Melo and giving him everything he wants, how is that working out for the team and the bottom line of winning?

For the Knicks to win, he has to at least give max effort on defense. I just don't see that happening unless something drastic changes, which would be Phil Jackson, using the weight of all those rings, to crush him the press and demand better defensive play. What can Melo do? Sulk? Then use that against him too. Turn him out in the press as a villain. Eventually Melo will demand a trade, then keep hammering him until he widens his list of teams that he can go to. If he buckles and throws a tantrum, wait until he does something you can suspend him for, then do it.

I really don't believe IMHO that anything other than direct public pressure from someone with Phil Jackson's reputation will move Melo to actually try defensively.

Knicks have tried the carrot, now IMHO , try the stick.

IMHO, Melo is a bully on the school yard. He doesn't change and won't have a reason to change because he always gets his way. Trashing the Knicks draft in public, playing while hurt and risking the Knicks long term investment, refusing to play real D, it's all like a bully challenging Phil Jackson to do something about. Do you reason with a bully? No, you punch that mother ****er in the face, you put him down ,and you keep him down and you let him know that from now on, if he wants to keep up the same happy horse **** routine, he's going to get put down.

I'm not asking Phil Jackson to reason with Melo, I'm asking him to realize you can only speak one language to a bully - Put him down and keep him down.

martin wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

RedmenBaller wrote:Just cant say that we got our moneys worth.

The Oakland Raiders just signed center Rodney Hudson, formerly of the KC Chiefs, to the largest contract ever given to an NFL center.

When you are treading the bottom of the standings, and have for a while, and have a negative rep of bad ownership and a dysfunctional franchise, you have to overpay guys to get there, and likely to any who WILL GO THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

The Knicks are the last dog at the bowl. Sorry, it's just the reality of being a bottom feeder team, that's true in any sport. It can change, it does change, but shifting the perception of your franchise takes time.

Honestly, Phil Jackson could do it, could jump start a perception change, he would just have to rip Melo a new one in the press. I mean no holds bar rip him up and down.

Matt Flynn has a nice fat two year deal with the Seahawks, but rookie Russell Wilson outplayed him, so Wilson got the job. In a lot of franchises, that wouldn't happen. Player notice stuff like that. So do agents. And GMs of other teams. The sports media will even notice. If a player feels by doing the right things and playing the right way, that he'll get playing time for it, he sees a functional meritocracy, which is the only way sports can truly function. Then players fall into line, then the winning takes care of itself, then players want to be there with you to win. Melo needs to be benched every time he refuses to play real defense. Doing that is real culture change. Finding quotes like nixluva does , that's not real culture change, that's just fluffy coach speak.

Melo has been enabled and coddled and given everything he wants. You won't attract players to that kind of situation.

Don't you think he has already started to do it? Ripped JR, Shump, Chandler away from the team as soon as he could. Upgraded THJr. Chose not to trade down and selected KP. Convinced Rolo. Signed 2 solid role players in Afflalo and OQuinn. I don't think you gain anything by ripping Melo a new one in the press. Rip Melo just like he did Kobe but I think the perception change has already started. This season he needs to put big time pressure on the coaching staff to win and develop all the pieces and get to the playoffs and do well in them. The last signing is just around the corner.

I'm hoping Calderon stays until the trade deadline and is traded. Then Phil can concentrate on Durant.

there are 24 million reasons why the pressure is on melo to conform and be a good employee and regardless of the number of wins or a playoff appearance.