Finestrg wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

nixluva wrote:RealGM has it listed that A 4 year vet minimum was listed at $1,015,421, tho it could be more now. http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/minimum_scale

To be honest it's not that much more they gave him and i'm sure they wanted to show him a little appreciation as a solid contributor to the change in attitude last year along with Amundson. I thought LT played hard and actually did good job. Don't know what was expected of him by some, but he was better than I thought he'd be and he played hard on D. Glad to see him back.

this

You can't look at it like that -- this signing cut into one of our two avenues to lure a higher priority young player for slightly < $3mm. You have backcourt upgrades out there like Lin, Shved, even this John Jenkins, a former 1st round pick who can really shoot the ball and score a-la JJ Reddick. Our backcourt still needs work fellas! Lin was just signed for very reasonable money (so much so that we should've been engaged for his services) and Shved and Jenkins are still out there -- all of these guys could be had for very reasonable money yet slightly above their vet minimum. Lance Thomas isn't on that same level in my opinion.

TPercy wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

TPercy wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Maybe VCoug knows if the knicks still had his bid rights and went over the min with that. I just hope they could save the $3m+ they have and use it for trades. Maybe the saving grace is having Thomas salary higher helps the knicks match salaries in a trade.

That's the only things I could thing of why a guy of his talents should get over min money.

Maybe we needed to beat other offers he had?? There was talk that 3 other teams were interested in him which one was the Spurs.

Why should did we consider doing that?

Ummmmmmmmmm huh???

I'm saying energy guys are not that rare. We should be be trying to outpay anyone for Lance Thomas.

I would say that energy guys that can actually understand and play in the Triangle are rare. Remember he came in with no training camp and picked up the system very quickly. As did Lou. They both changed the mentality of the team for the better.

So? As did everyone on the Summer League roster of both last year and this years newcommers as well. Nothing special. Energy guys are always positive players in the locker room because of their hard work. A big concern for me is whether or not we can still sign a decent back up SG with the room excpetion we have left...Do you know if you can add cap space onto a room excpetion deal?

No we can't add cap to the room exception. They have to be spent on separate players.

fishmike wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

nixluva wrote:RealGM has it listed that A 4 year vet minimum was listed at $1,015,421, tho it could be more now. http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/minimum_scale

To be honest it's not that much more they gave him and i'm sure they wanted to show him a little appreciation as a solid contributor to the change in attitude last year along with Amundson. I thought LT played hard and actually did good job. Don't know what was expected of him by some, but he was better than I thought he'd be and he played hard on D. Glad to see him back.

this

You can't look at it like that -- this signing cut into one of our two avenues to lure a higher priority young player for slightly < $3mm. You have backcourt upgrades out there like Lin, Shved, even this John Jenkins, a former 1st round pick who can really shoot the ball and score a-la JJ Reddick. Our backcourt still needs work fellas! Lin was just signed for very reasonable money (so much so that we should've been engaged for his services) and Shved and Jenkins are still out there -- all of these guys could be had for very reasonable money yet slightly above their vet minimum. Lance Thomas isn't on that same level in my opinion.

He's not... but are you telling me talent is the only factor in building teams? In building chemistry? You need a guy or two like Lance. Blue collar and high IQ are important also. The coaching staff love him. This is not a 30mpg hopefull here... this is practice culture player who will play spot minutes or give you a spot start and play effective BB next to better players.

TPercy wrote:

Finestrg wrote:I don't get this move at all. So many better options out there for a roster spot. How many open spots do we have now anyway? You figure one is almost certainly going to Thanasis (who, if so, should occupy the Lance Thomas spot). If anything, Thomas should've been allowed to compete for a spot with the SL team. I mean WTF--this dude Mo N'dour looks like a vastly superior player to Lance Thomas. Not only that--Shved is much more of a priority. WTF man--get Shved done first--or at least OFFICIALLY offer Shved either the room exception or the rest of the cap space, either/or. Let me hear he turned both down, then I'll move on. Now Phil went and torpedoed one avenue to bring Shved back. Sorry, Lance Thomas doesn't do a thing for me. Better players in the DL for Pete's sake. Not happy.

Phil has a team of NBA professionals, so he clearly knows what he was doing with this move. We are just coach potatos who drink beer all day. If it is any consolation, newyorkerforver was offering to text Phil Jackson that people were not okay with this deal.

newyorker4ever wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Finestrg wrote:I don't get this move at all. So many better options out there for a roster spot. How many open spots do we have now anyway? You figure one is almost certainly going to Thanasis (who, if so, should occupy the Lance Thomas spot). If anything, Thomas should've been allowed to compete for a spot with the SL team. I mean WTF--this dude Mo N'dour looks like a vastly superior player to Lance Thomas. Not only that--Shved is much more of a priority. WTF man--get Shved done first--or at least OFFICIALLY offer Shved either the room exception or the rest of the cap space, either/or. Let me hear he turned both down, then I'll move on. Now Phil went and torpedoed one avenue to bring Shved back. Sorry, Lance Thomas doesn't do a thing for me. Better players in the DL for Pete's sake. Not happy.

Phil has a team of NBA professionals, so he clearly knows what he was doing with this move. We are just coach potatos who drink beer all day. If it is any consolation, newyorkerforver was offering to text Phil Jackson that people were not okay with this deal.

No reason to be a whiny little baby but if you wanna make this a back and forth between me and you cause you can't take someone disagreeing with how you feel about what Phil is building then we can make that happen????? You just keep running your mouth is what you do. This is a message board that people debate with each other so deal with it in a adult way or move on.

It's not about disagreeing. The problem is when someone has the audacity to question a move Phil makes, they get called a know nothing couch potato that isn't qualified to have an opinion because they dont have 11 rings or something. If that's the case then the people who like the signing have a baseless opinion as well because well have they ever played in the NBA? So really, why dont we shut the discussion board down if that's the qualification for debate.

TPercy wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:That is the end of Scvheyd.

Well that's one good thing about the signing then...

So you are fine with Ledo as our back up SG?

The guard rotation of AA, Galloway, Grant, Calderon, and maybe Thanasis? Yeah Im OK with that. The Triangle doesn't really need SG's and PG's per say just G's. Im not a Schved fan I think he happened to have a hot streak as a Knick and before that he was a career 37% chucker. Id rather develop the young kids than watch him revert to his mean as a Knick getting paid more than the vet min.

Finestrg wrote:

TPercy wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:That is the end of Scvheyd.

Well that's one good thing about the signing then...

So you are fine with Ledo as our back up SG?

Gimmie a break. You care to explain why you don't want Shved back then, H1AND1? And while you're at it, explain to all of us how Lance Thomas makes more sense than Alexey Shved--I challenge anyone to do so.

I'm actually OK with Ledo at backup 2G, so if you told me there's no room for Jenkins--fine, But I'd like the 6'6" Shved back not only for additional depth at SG with his size and scoring ability but for his ability to run the point and handle/facilitate. I think it's imperative that he's resigned in fact. Right now Shved would be my first guard off the bench in a 30+min/game role behind Grant and Afflalo. Ledo and Galloway would see time as well but of the 3, Shved's the most versatile and most important. I'm shocked Phil doesn't appear to see it that way.

I never said I thought Lance should've been brought back, I would've preferred they signed a young kid with upside but Ill get back to that in a sec

Yes, Ill say it, I don't like Schved one bit. _It is my opinon_ he had a hot streak in his 16 games as a Knick. He is a career 30-something% shooter who is horribly inefficient. Were talking a 2 year career with a lot of playing time to get those stats. His 16 games a Knick cannot be looked at above what he did before in 150+ games in the NBA. ON TOP OF ALL THAT, he is a horrendous defender. Beyond bad. I want Schved back at not a penny more than the vet min and even then Id rather the young kids get playing time above him (Grant primarily, then Galloway and Thanasis even, to see what he have--at least we know Thanasis is a plus defender and can be developed in the Tony Allen mold of hard nosed D and dunks).

Schved already turned down the vet min so sayonara, amigo. And again, Lance Thomas, blah. He is horrible and i get it hes a locker room guy. OK. The Knicks arent going to be contending next season so I'd rather take a gamble on a young guy with upside than sign Lance Thomas even with the intangibles he brings to the locker room.

Bonn1997 wrote:He actually had negative win shares last year, meaning the team would have been better off playing 4 on 5! I get it that they wouldn't really have been better off 4 on 5. The stat just isn't equipped to deal with players who are that bad.

Is there an advanced metric for good locker room guys? Like Veteran Intangible Shares?

H1AND1 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Finestrg wrote:I don't get this move at all. So many better options out there for a roster spot. How many open spots do we have now anyway? You figure one is almost certainly going to Thanasis (who, if so, should occupy the Lance Thomas spot). If anything, Thomas should've been allowed to compete for a spot with the SL team. I mean WTF--this dude Mo N'dour looks like a vastly superior player to Lance Thomas. Not only that--Shved is much more of a priority. WTF man--get Shved done first--or at least OFFICIALLY offer Shved either the room exception or the rest of the cap space, either/or. Let me hear he turned both down, then I'll move on. Now Phil went and torpedoed one avenue to bring Shved back. Sorry, Lance Thomas doesn't do a thing for me. Better players in the DL for Pete's sake. Not happy.

Phil has a team of NBA professionals, so he clearly knows what he was doing with this move. We are just coach potatos who drink beer all day. If it is any consolation, newyorkerforver was offering to text Phil Jackson that people were not okay with this deal.

No reason to be a whiny little baby but if you wanna make this a back and forth between me and you cause you can't take someone disagreeing with how you feel about what Phil is building then we can make that happen????? You just keep running your mouth is what you do. This is a message board that people debate with each other so deal with it in a adult way or move on.

It's not about disagreeing. The problem is when someone has the audacity to question a move Phil makes, they get called a know nothing couch potato that isn't qualified to have an opinion because they dont have 11 rings or something. If that's the case then the people who like the signing have a baseless opinion as well because well have they ever played in the NBA? So really, why dont we shut the discussion board down if that's the qualification for debate.

To me its not about disagreeing or agreeing....its about not thinking it through before calling something that someone else does "stupid" like some do on this board constantly. Phil signed a marginal veteran role player for slightly more than the Vet Minimum. One could make a strong point that Phil is not stupid, so why would he make this move and potentially limit another bench/role player move? Here are some plausible reasons.....

A) He wanted to secure a veteran he trusted who had some experience in his system to help support the growth of a young roster
B) He wanted a veteran good soldier who would create an example in support of his young head coach
C) He wanted a guy who would agree to a one year contract which would leave more flexibility for next year as the rebuild is not a one-year process
D) The other guy he targeted (Shved) might want more money than the Knicks can afford and is playing hardball in negotiations in terms of money / years
E) Perhaps Shved is going back to Europe for more money

There are some who are flipping out over this move as if Shved or some other also ran guard is the missing piece to the championship puzzle. Yes - the Knicks need another reserve guard ..... and as you point out in a later post - I'm also good with Ledo & Thanesis filling in behind Afflalo, Calderon, Galloway & Grant.

foosballnick wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Finestrg wrote:I don't get this move at all. So many better options out there for a roster spot. How many open spots do we have now anyway? You figure one is almost certainly going to Thanasis (who, if so, should occupy the Lance Thomas spot). If anything, Thomas should've been allowed to compete for a spot with the SL team. I mean WTF--this dude Mo N'dour looks like a vastly superior player to Lance Thomas. Not only that--Shved is much more of a priority. WTF man--get Shved done first--or at least OFFICIALLY offer Shved either the room exception or the rest of the cap space, either/or. Let me hear he turned both down, then I'll move on. Now Phil went and torpedoed one avenue to bring Shved back. Sorry, Lance Thomas doesn't do a thing for me. Better players in the DL for Pete's sake. Not happy.

Phil has a team of NBA professionals, so he clearly knows what he was doing with this move. We are just coach potatos who drink beer all day. If it is any consolation, newyorkerforver was offering to text Phil Jackson that people were not okay with this deal.

No reason to be a whiny little baby but if you wanna make this a back and forth between me and you cause you can't take someone disagreeing with how you feel about what Phil is building then we can make that happen????? You just keep running your mouth is what you do. This is a message board that people debate with each other so deal with it in a adult way or move on.

It's not about disagreeing. The problem is when someone has the audacity to question a move Phil makes, they get called a know nothing couch potato that isn't qualified to have an opinion because they dont have 11 rings or something. If that's the case then the people who like the signing have a baseless opinion as well because well have they ever played in the NBA? So really, why dont we shut the discussion board down if that's the qualification for debate.

To me its not about disagreeing or agreeing....its about not thinking it through before calling something that someone else does "stupid" like some do on this board constantly. Phil signed a marginal veteran role player for slightly more than the Vet Minimum. One could make a strong point that Phil is not stupid, so why would he make this move and potentially limit another bench/role player move? Here are some plausible reasons.....

A) He wanted to secure a veteran he trusted who had some experience in his system to help support the growth of a young roster
B) He wanted a veteran good soldier who would create an example in support of his young head coach
C) He wanted a guy who would agree to a one year contract which would leave more flexibility for next year as the rebuild is not a one-year process
D) The other guy he targeted (Shved) might want more money than the Knicks can afford and is playing hardball in negotiations in terms of money / years
E) Perhaps Shved is going back to Europe for more money

There are some who are flipping out over this move as if Shved or some other also ran guard is the missing piece to the championship puzzle. Yes - the Knicks need another reserve guard ..... and as you point out in a later post - I'm also good with Ledo & Thanesis filling in behind Afflalo, Calderon, Galloway & Grant.

Ledo and Thanasis are at best unproven players who cannot be relied upon.

I do think that Phil chose to pay him extra because of B.