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A Little R.E.S.P.E.C.T.
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StarksEwing1
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7/4/2015  9:56 AM
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:Why do supposed Knick fans hate on their own players so much? Especially rookies and prospects we're tryin to develop! It's just stupid to be so negative even before the players have had a chance to be developed. The Knicks have prospects they must suck! Ridiculous. How about we allow some time for our prospects to be coached and see how they turn out?
now you are just being silly nixluva. First off you are extremely wrong. 99 percent of fans probably love young prospects. The jerian grant move was universally praised, most people loved the cleanthony early drafting, and even though KP had some detractors which i understand the majority are excited. So just because fans dont think like you doesnt mean they are negative.

No you need to freakin get off my back. Every time I post you come out and attack me for being positive on a damn KNICKS FAN FORUM!

This is what I was talking about since you think i'm being silly:

Melonoma wrote:Ledo is a d-league scrub who shouldn't make the team. Early is a bust. Thanasis and Gomez are second rounders, meaning they have a minuscule chance of being impact players.

Get a grip. We have one of the worst situations in the league regarding having young talent. Probably the worst situation out of any non-contender. And no pick next year.

You think I was wrong for commenting about Knick fans who say stuff like this? Phil literally just finished his 1 full season and all his prospects have barely had a chance to be developed. IMO this is a strange take for a Knicks fan to have and shows a lack of perspective. The Knicks are not one of the "worst situations in the league having young talent."

Where is the sense of perspective when it comes to this team? Phil didn't even have a pick in his 1st draft. He had one pick going into this draft. Still he's come out with all these prospects when he originally only had the one pick in the last 2 years. Phil has massively increased the number of young prospects this team has.

calm down gramps. My issue is you keep calling out fans for being too negative which is bull****. Let me tell you something EVERYBODY here loves the knicks and want them to win. Just because they dont love every move doesnt mean they are less of a fan. In fairness ledo probably wont do much thats not bashing him just being honest. I love early but i understand why some are a bit frustrated with him. Injuries hurt him last year but i think he will be fine.
AUTOADVERT
Bonn1997
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7/4/2015  10:22 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:Why do supposed Knick fans hate on their own players so much? Especially rookies and prospects we're tryin to develop! It's just stupid to be so negative even before the players have had a chance to be developed. The Knicks have prospects they must suck! Ridiculous. How about we allow some time for our prospects to be coached and see how they turn out?
now you are just being silly nixluva. First off you are extremely wrong. 99 percent of fans probably love young prospects. The jerian grant move was universally praised, most people loved the cleanthony early drafting, and even though KP had some detractors which i understand the majority are excited. So just because fans dont think like you doesnt mean they are negative.

No you need to freakin get off my back. Every time I post you come out and attack me for being positive on a damn KNICKS FAN FORUM!

This is what I was talking about since you think i'm being silly:

Melonoma wrote:Ledo is a d-league scrub who shouldn't make the team. Early is a bust. Thanasis and Gomez are second rounders, meaning they have a minuscule chance of being impact players.

Get a grip. We have one of the worst situations in the league regarding having young talent. Probably the worst situation out of any non-contender. And no pick next year.

You think I was wrong for commenting about Knick fans who say stuff like this? Phil literally just finished his 1 full season and all his prospects have barely had a chance to be developed. IMO this is a strange take for a Knicks fan to have and shows a lack of perspective. The Knicks are not one of the "worst situations in the league having young talent."

Where is the sense of perspective when it comes to this team? Phil didn't even have a pick in his 1st draft. He had one pick going into this draft. Still he's come out with all these prospects when he originally only had the one pick in the last 2 years. Phil has massively increased the number of young prospects this team has.

calm down gramps. My issue is you keep calling out fans for being too negative which is bull****. Let me tell you something EVERYBODY here loves the knicks and want them to win. Just because they dont love every move doesnt mean they are less of a fan. In fairness ledo probably wont do much thats not bashing him just being honest. I love early but i understand why some are a bit frustrated with him. Injuries hurt him last year but i think he will be fine.

+1
The incessant mission to eliminate any criticism and any hint of pessimism is the issue.
StarksEwing1
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7/4/2015  10:27 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:Why do supposed Knick fans hate on their own players so much? Especially rookies and prospects we're tryin to develop! It's just stupid to be so negative even before the players have had a chance to be developed. The Knicks have prospects they must suck! Ridiculous. How about we allow some time for our prospects to be coached and see how they turn out?
now you are just being silly nixluva. First off you are extremely wrong. 99 percent of fans probably love young prospects. The jerian grant move was universally praised, most people loved the cleanthony early drafting, and even though KP had some detractors which i understand the majority are excited. So just because fans dont think like you doesnt mean they are negative.

No you need to freakin get off my back. Every time I post you come out and attack me for being positive on a damn KNICKS FAN FORUM!

This is what I was talking about since you think i'm being silly:

Melonoma wrote:Ledo is a d-league scrub who shouldn't make the team. Early is a bust. Thanasis and Gomez are second rounders, meaning they have a minuscule chance of being impact players.

Get a grip. We have one of the worst situations in the league regarding having young talent. Probably the worst situation out of any non-contender. And no pick next year.

You think I was wrong for commenting about Knick fans who say stuff like this? Phil literally just finished his 1 full season and all his prospects have barely had a chance to be developed. IMO this is a strange take for a Knicks fan to have and shows a lack of perspective. The Knicks are not one of the "worst situations in the league having young talent."

Where is the sense of perspective when it comes to this team? Phil didn't even have a pick in his 1st draft. He had one pick going into this draft. Still he's come out with all these prospects when he originally only had the one pick in the last 2 years. Phil has massively increased the number of young prospects this team has.

calm down gramps. My issue is you keep calling out fans for being too negative which is bull****. Let me tell you something EVERYBODY here loves the knicks and want them to win. Just because they dont love every move doesnt mean they are less of a fan. In fairness ledo probably wont do much thats not bashing him just being honest. I love early but i understand why some are a bit frustrated with him. Injuries hurt him last year but i think he will be fine.

+1
The incessant mission to eliminate any criticism and any hint of pessimism is the issue.
exactly. Im not trying to abolish positivity or optimism. In fact its important. I just try to be objective because thats just me. When i love a move i praise and when i dont i am critical it. Nothing wrong with that
TeamBall
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7/4/2015  12:33 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:Why do supposed Knick fans hate on their own players so much? Especially rookies and prospects we're tryin to develop! It's just stupid to be so negative even before the players have had a chance to be developed. The Knicks have prospects they must suck! Ridiculous. How about we allow some time for our prospects to be coached and see how they turn out?
now you are just being silly nixluva. First off you are extremely wrong. 99 percent of fans probably love young prospects. The jerian grant move was universally praised, most people loved the cleanthony early drafting, and even though KP had some detractors which i understand the majority are excited. So just because fans dont think like you doesnt mean they are negative.

No you need to freakin get off my back. Every time I post you come out and attack me for being positive on a damn KNICKS FAN FORUM!

This is what I was talking about since you think i'm being silly:

Melonoma wrote:Ledo is a d-league scrub who shouldn't make the team. Early is a bust. Thanasis and Gomez are second rounders, meaning they have a minuscule chance of being impact players.

Get a grip. We have one of the worst situations in the league regarding having young talent. Probably the worst situation out of any non-contender. And no pick next year.

You think I was wrong for commenting about Knick fans who say stuff like this? Phil literally just finished his 1 full season and all his prospects have barely had a chance to be developed. IMO this is a strange take for a Knicks fan to have and shows a lack of perspective. The Knicks are not one of the "worst situations in the league having young talent."

Where is the sense of perspective when it comes to this team? Phil didn't even have a pick in his 1st draft. He had one pick going into this draft. Still he's come out with all these prospects when he originally only had the one pick in the last 2 years. Phil has massively increased the number of young prospects this team has.

calm down gramps. My issue is you keep calling out fans for being too negative which is bull****. Let me tell you something EVERYBODY here loves the knicks and want them to win. Just because they dont love every move doesnt mean they are less of a fan. In fairness ledo probably wont do much thats not bashing him just being honest. I love early but i understand why some are a bit frustrated with him. Injuries hurt him last year but i think he will be fine.

+1
The incessant mission to eliminate any criticism and any hint of pessimism is the issue.

You take exception to positivity the same way he takes exception to negativity.
Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
markvmc
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7/4/2015  12:37 PM
In fairness, Bonn is very polite about his lack of positivity. No all-caps posts or GTFOs.
TeamBall
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7/4/2015  12:41 PM
Oh yeah Bonn is more polite but the double standard of how nix gets attacked for positivity around here is a little alarming.
Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
TPercy
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7/4/2015  12:45 PM
TeamBall wrote:Oh yeah Bonn is more polite but the double standard of how nix gets attacked for positivity around here is a little alarming.

+1 Nix did have a point though. He was referring to Melonoma's post.

The Future is Bright!
nixluva
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7/4/2015  1:03 PM
TPercy wrote:
TeamBall wrote:Oh yeah Bonn is more polite but the double standard of how nix gets attacked for positivity around here is a little alarming.

+1 Nix did have a point though. He was referring to Melonoma's post.


Here's my thing with this particular negative take Melonoma had. The prospects Phil has brought in have barely had a chance to get going. Literally these kids are just getting their feet wet with the Knicks.

Gallo - 45 Games
Early - 39 Games
Ledo - 12 Games
Wear - 51 Games

Then you have our prospects that haven't even had a chance to do anything at the NBA level yet.

Kristaps
Jerian
Thanasis
Labeyrie
Willy

It seems highly premature to be so negative about our prospects who where rookies and some who haven't even made their Summer League appearance yet.

codeunknown
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7/5/2015  1:41 PM
Here are my thoughts. The overall shakeout here is ok. Phil's mistakes came early.

The Tyson trade was bad, a D, and a poor projection of what his value would have been mid-season.

The Carmelo Anthony contract is a B/B-, contingent on a trade before further depreciation.

Jason Smith signing - C.

The JR Smith/Shumpert trade was a B+.

The Amare waive was a D.

The draft as a whole including the Porzingis and Grant/Hardaway swap was an A-/A.

The Lopez signing was a B+.

The O Quinn signing is an A.

The Derrick Williams signing is a C.

The Afflalo signing is a C.

I'm using C as average. Given that, Phil has been slightly above average overall, around a B-/B.

Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
nixluva
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7/6/2015  3:07 PM
Really good article talking about the change in style that Phil has brought to how the Knicks go about their business of building a team.

July 6, 2015
Joseph Flynn

THE KNICKS' SHOCKINGLY SANE, SMART OFFSEASON
Phil Jackson doesn't move very well these days. Like many retired athletes creaking up on the big 7-0, the once-rugged NBA big man has undergone a multitude of operations, most notably a hip replacement. His declining health has been thrown in his face by critics since he took the job as president of the moribund New York Knicks last year. Is the hobbled old man serious about rebuilding this organization, or is he just going to sit back and cash James Dolan's checks? No one considered that the answer could be "all of the above."

Looking back on his measured, deliberate rebuilding of the team over the past few weeks, the Zen Master calls to mind not a disinterested codger, but another famous New York City boss: Goodfellas' Paulie Cicero, who "might've moved slow, but it was only because [he] didn't have to move for anybody." Once he finally got around to building the team he'd so thoroughly demolished, Jackson somehow got fans buzzing over strange old-man terms like "patience" and "financial prudence."

Jackson completed his teardown when he traded malfunctioning scoring machine Tim Hardaway Jr. for point guard prospect Jerian Grant on draft night. The 2015-16 Knicks will exclusively feature players acquired—or re-signed, in the case of Carmelo Anthony—by Jackson himself. With the old guard out the door, the president went about reshaping the roster through free agency—signing center Robin Lopez, center/forward Kyle O'Quinn, shooting guard Arron Afflalo, and forward Derrick Williams—in a manner that flies in the face of the Dolan Way. None of those players are stars, or even close. Most of them should be end up useful, affordable, valuable, and versatile. If pursuing players like this doesn't seem revolutionary, you haven't been following the Knicks.

Since the turn of the century, the Knicks' roster-building philosophy gone a little something like this: pick up a stat sheet, find the available player with the highest points-per-game average, then sign that guy at all costs. Does he play defense? Not important. Does he play the exact same position as the best player on your current roster? Who cares? It has been the driving force behind more than a decade's worth of unconscionable moves, from the Stephon Marbury/Steve Francis backcourt to the Eddy Curry trade to the psychedelic bummer that was The Andrea Bargnani Experience.

For the moment, at least, Jackson has taken an entirely different course. The flexibility in this new approach was evident during the Knicks' dalliance with free agent bigs Greg Monroe and Robin Lopez. The Knicks were linked to Monroe for months, in the most overstated and utterly bull**** New York media style, with talk of deals done well in advance and various Jackson confidants waxing creepily poetic on the importance of big men with big butts. New York did indeed meet with Monroe and his wonderful, Triangle-ready rump on the first night of free agency, but appeared gun-shy about handing out max money to a center who struggles to protect the rim (though Monroe's agent claims otherwise).

The Milwaukee Bucks swooped in and signed Monroe to a 3-year, $50-million deal and Jackson turned his attention toward Lopez, the defensive backbone of a Trail Blazers squad that won 50 games in back-to-back seasons against brutal Western Conference competition. Lopez's primary talents include protecting the rim, setting screens and boxing out on rebounds... in order words, he is the anti-Knick. There has been no word in the Post about the relative size of his butt.

Jackson augmented the Lopez deal with a string of moderately-priced signings. All told, the Knicks have handed out $96 million in contracts so far to four players—or, in other words, $4 million less than they gave Amar'e Stoudemire during their last big free agent shopping spree, in 2010.

The counterpoint to this is clear, and arrives ready-made in Stephen A. Smith's voice: you need stars to win in the NBA! It's true enough, to an extent: stars are essential to winning rings. But it's also important to remember that the term "star" is defined far too broadly. Stoudemire was a star, if also an elite scorer who gave back nearly as many points on the defensive end. He was also considered such an injury risk that the Knicks couldn't insure his deal. Handing out massive contracts to one-dimensional scorers is a damn difficult way to build a title contender, which—if you believe that the Knicks will always do the opposite of what's generally perceived as best practices—explains why the Knicks doubled down when they acquired Carmelo Anthony.

The Melo/STAT duo was never quite as bad as it's reputation, but never an elite unit. Unsurprisingly, the Knicks had their greatest success in 2012-13, when Stoudemire missed most of the season and the team was able to compliment Anthony with solid role players. In true Knicks style, the front office learned nothing from that season, tossing away draft picks for Andrea Bargnani, who will forever battle Michael Olowokandi and Kwame Brown in a very sad contest for the honor of Worst First Overall Pick Of His Generation.

To fully appreciate Jackson's new spread-the-wealth policy, consider the potential fate of his riskiest signing. Like Bargnani, Derrick Williams has done little to justify his hype as a high draft pick. At two years, $10 million, the Knicks are probably overpaying for the No. 2 overall pick in the 2011 draft. But that is still less money over two years than the Knicks paid Bargnani himself last year ($11 million). If Williams busts, the Knicks' cap won't be crippled down the line. New York is mitigating risk while staying clear of long-term, big-money deals that eat into the cap and ruin any chance at building a deep roster.

Jackson might have a difficult time selling this free agent haul to those fans hungry for a star. They suffered through a 17-win season, the logic goes, and the Knicks don't have their first-round pick next summer. This team must contend for a playoff berth immediately, for... whatever reasons would convince a person that it's reasonable to demand an immediate playoff appearance after such a season. It has been the Knicks great curse that the team's owner is one of the knuckleheads given to such demands.

For all their open hostility toward their own fans, previous Knicks regimes ran the club like a third-rate fan comment thread come to life: get stars, get scoring, win now. Fortunately for those fans, their team president doesn't appear to give a **** about any of that. Jackson has taken control of the NBA's most reckless franchise, and has spent the last week revealing his vision: a balanced team, looking to the future, with versatile, defense-minded players who know their roles supporting the team's star and a draft pick who could become one in time. Knicks fans know enough to expect a bumpy ride. But it has been a long time since they had the sense that a grown-up was at the wheel.


http://July 6, 2015 Joseph FlynnTHE KNICKS' SHOCKINGLY SANE, SMART …
jrodmc
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7/6/2015  3:34 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:Adding anyone is addressing a need, we had one NBA caliber starter...

he has not had true success as a starter in almost his entire career. he is best-suited to a sixth man role going forward. so in effect you are wrong, the knicks had not a single nba starting caliber player.


Carmelo Anthony has not had success as a starter??????..Two years ago when he wasn't hurt, he put up 27 pts and 8 boards pr game for an entire season...Last time it was done was Shaq Oneal...Please stop the stupid talk, you and Triple are embarrassing yourselves...You aren't taken seriously..

he has been a loser come playoff time. sixth men can give the illusion of being starting-caliber during the jayvee season when the competition is below average half the time and when the defense is more slack.

by contrast he has been easily made inefficient/ineffective in the playoffs on offense, and his defense has always been below the standards necessary in a starting-caliber player. therefore he is always exposed as a liability in the playoffs, and mostly sooner than later.

as you yourself shared, there is a perception that carmelo anthiny is SOFT. there is a measure of truth to that.

teams that win have at least three-two way players in their lineup. can't do it with fewer than that. hence the knicks have failed with him here.

ergo carmelo anthiny has not had... and will not have... success as a starter on a title contender.

Hence another pathetic rant that starts on one truly idiotic point (melo isn't an NBA caliber starter) and ends on a totally different point, while making silly non-fact based points on the way to the all to familiar land of Melohate.

Ergo, no one still takes you seriously.

Brewer critique ==> Melohate.
Next up:

Kristap too skinny ==> Melohate
Derrick not living up to potential ==> Melohate
Phil is old ==> Melohate
OKC will overpay to keep Durant ==> Melohate
JJ will be traded to the Cavs ==> Melohate
LeQ failed in Cleveland ==> Melohate

TPercy
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7/6/2015  3:46 PM

Melo might be a lot of things..but soft? not sure I get that.
The Future is Bright!
newyorker4ever
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7/6/2015  3:55 PM
nixluva wrote:Why do supposed Knick fans hate on their own players so much? Especially rookies and prospects we're tryin to develop! It's just stupid to be so negative even before the players have had a chance to be developed. The Knicks have prospects they must suck! Ridiculous. How about we allow some time for our prospects to be coached and see how they turn out?

It's like these negative fans are in training to become the next F.Isola. LOL
mreinman
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7/6/2015  4:18 PM
TPercy wrote:
Melo might be a lot of things..but soft? not sure I get that.

He is definitely not soft. That is silly.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
A Little R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

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