holfresh wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Can't wait for holfresh's second by second critique of the poor Latvian farm boy's missteps in SL.

If his waistband is at the wrong height and shoes are not right in some way, prepare for another colorful thread, and god forbid if he doesn't not look like the second coming of Dirk on every play.

What's the best thing for Porzingis to do so he remains composed in the SL...maybe he can get J.R. Smith to hook him up with some of that obnoxious smelling acid diesel he probably smokes before using the hovertrac.

Some guys are going to have to search for another life on this forum if Porzingis actually turns out to be a good player.

It would be boring without this kind of thread, though.

Funny though, if Phil had taken Mudiay, Winslow, and even Stein, I would have made some posts, or maybe a single thread, about how we should have taken someone else, but then I would have immediately started looking for reasons to convince myself that one of these guys actually was a better pick than the player I wanted.

No hate for the kid..This is not about the kid..He can't help it..I just think the franchise is in limbo now...Not sure of any direction...

then your just not paying attention. The cubbard is totally bare. We need young players. We need prospects. The Spurs are ALWAYS in win now mode. Do they draft players to help them win now? No they take guys they can develop or sit on. Pipeline.

Who cares if Phil smokes weed? Remember your JR comments? THEY ALL DO IT.

Knicks added a mature win now PG in Grant. They also added a high ceiling prospect who if properly groomed can be a franchise changing talent. They added some young guys last year to develop and Galloway made the big leagues and played well. Hopefully Thanasis is next.

They have $25mm ish in cap space to add veteran players to build a winning culture and guys that can help Melo now. Its a mix. Rebuilding a talent base and winning games are allowed to happen at the same time. Last I checked there is nothing in the CBA that prohibits this

U are missing the point of my carefully crafted diatribe...I really don't care if he smokes..I don't know if he still does, nor do I care, really!!...We can't keep changing the plan on the fly was my point...You can't take Calderon contract then try to trade him within months then say you are set with him at a position when you couldn't trade him..Or the other half dozen moves that don't match what you are saying...For which last night's move was a baffling as everything else he does...

What was baffling about him taking arguably the BPA who reminds him of Pau Gasol?

Pau can play defense and play the post...

Was he doing that at 19? Honest question.

holfresh wrote:
My argument at the time if I remember correctly was that Isiah had a mandate from Dolan...I vividly remember an Isiah interview where he said he equated what was asked of him akin to changing the engine of an airplane in flight..In other words, His directive was not to rebuild but to trade pieces and picks for players than can win now...

I conceded that he suck at it...I vigorously defended because of the directive..He didn't have the option or the leeway to rebuild..The owner said build it this way..Not the same as what Phil currently have...We had dead weight players like Kurt Thomas etc..Phil has Melo and cap space...It's completely different...But again, I wanted Phil here too..

Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..

I said it back then too but some how I can't shake it...Let me continue...

Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..

OK - let me see if I got this.

You believe Isiah sucked - but gave him a pass at his suckiness because he publicly blamed his suckiness on a directive from Dolan. So basically Isiah is a person who passes the buck and is not accountable for his own actions - and you give him a pass.

You believe Jackson sucks - but do not give him a pass at his suckiness because he has publicly stated he is is own man. So basically Phil takes accountability for his actions, and you don't give him a pass.

DrAlphaeus wrote:

holfresh wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Can't wait for holfresh's second by second critique of the poor Latvian farm boy's missteps in SL.

If his waistband is at the wrong height and shoes are not right in some way, prepare for another colorful thread, and god forbid if he doesn't not look like the second coming of Dirk on every play.

What's the best thing for Porzingis to do so he remains composed in the SL...maybe he can get J.R. Smith to hook him up with some of that obnoxious smelling acid diesel he probably smokes before using the hovertrac.

Some guys are going to have to search for another life on this forum if Porzingis actually turns out to be a good player.

It would be boring without this kind of thread, though.

Funny though, if Phil had taken Mudiay, Winslow, and even Stein, I would have made some posts, or maybe a single thread, about how we should have taken someone else, but then I would have immediately started looking for reasons to convince myself that one of these guys actually was a better pick than the player I wanted.

No hate for the kid..This is not about the kid..He can't help it..I just think the franchise is in limbo now...Not sure of any direction...

then your just not paying attention. The cubbard is totally bare. We need young players. We need prospects. The Spurs are ALWAYS in win now mode. Do they draft players to help them win now? No they take guys they can develop or sit on. Pipeline.

Who cares if Phil smokes weed? Remember your JR comments? THEY ALL DO IT.

Knicks added a mature win now PG in Grant. They also added a high ceiling prospect who if properly groomed can be a franchise changing talent. They added some young guys last year to develop and Galloway made the big leagues and played well. Hopefully Thanasis is next.

They have $25mm ish in cap space to add veteran players to build a winning culture and guys that can help Melo now. Its a mix. Rebuilding a talent base and winning games are allowed to happen at the same time. Last I checked there is nothing in the CBA that prohibits this

U are missing the point of my carefully crafted diatribe...I really don't care if he smokes..I don't know if he still does, nor do I care, really!!...We can't keep changing the plan on the fly was my point...You can't take Calderon contract then try to trade him within months then say you are set with him at a position when you couldn't trade him..Or the other half dozen moves that don't match what you are saying...For which last night's move was a baffling as everything else he does...

What was baffling about him taking arguably the BPA who reminds him of Pau Gasol?

Pau can play defense and play the post...

Was he doing that at 19? Honest question.

Can't say, I know what Gasol was when Phil got him to play the triangle and the answer is yes..He reminds you of Gasol at 19??.You remember Gasol then??? honestly??

foosballnick wrote:

holfresh wrote:
My argument at the time if I remember correctly was that Isiah had a mandate from Dolan...I vividly remember an Isiah interview where he said he equated what was asked of him akin to changing the engine of an airplane in flight..In other words, His directive was not to rebuild but to trade pieces and picks for players than can win now...

I conceded that he suck at it...I vigorously defended because of the directive..He didn't have the option or the leeway to rebuild..The owner said build it this way..Not the same as what Phil currently have...We had dead weight players like Kurt Thomas etc..Phil has Melo and cap space...It's completely different...But again, I wanted Phil here too..

Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..

I said it back then too but some how I can't shake it...Let me continue...

Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..

OK - let me see if I got this.

You believe Isiah sucked - but gave him a pass at his suckiness because he publicly blamed his suckiness on a directive from Dolan. So basically Isiah is a person who passes the buck and is not accountable for his own actions - and you give him a pass.

You believe Jackson sucks - but do not give him a pass at his suckiness because he has publicly stated he is is own man. So basically Phil takes accountability for his actions, and you don't give him a pass.

This is bordering on pointless no??..It's easier when u think I hate Phil so why not run with that...

holfresh wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

holfresh wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Can't wait for holfresh's second by second critique of the poor Latvian farm boy's missteps in SL.

If his waistband is at the wrong height and shoes are not right in some way, prepare for another colorful thread, and god forbid if he doesn't not look like the second coming of Dirk on every play.

What's the best thing for Porzingis to do so he remains composed in the SL...maybe he can get J.R. Smith to hook him up with some of that obnoxious smelling acid diesel he probably smokes before using the hovertrac.

Some guys are going to have to search for another life on this forum if Porzingis actually turns out to be a good player.

It would be boring without this kind of thread, though.

Funny though, if Phil had taken Mudiay, Winslow, and even Stein, I would have made some posts, or maybe a single thread, about how we should have taken someone else, but then I would have immediately started looking for reasons to convince myself that one of these guys actually was a better pick than the player I wanted.

No hate for the kid..This is not about the kid..He can't help it..I just think the franchise is in limbo now...Not sure of any direction...

then your just not paying attention. The cubbard is totally bare. We need young players. We need prospects. The Spurs are ALWAYS in win now mode. Do they draft players to help them win now? No they take guys they can develop or sit on. Pipeline.

Who cares if Phil smokes weed? Remember your JR comments? THEY ALL DO IT.

Knicks added a mature win now PG in Grant. They also added a high ceiling prospect who if properly groomed can be a franchise changing talent. They added some young guys last year to develop and Galloway made the big leagues and played well. Hopefully Thanasis is next.

They have $25mm ish in cap space to add veteran players to build a winning culture and guys that can help Melo now. Its a mix. Rebuilding a talent base and winning games are allowed to happen at the same time. Last I checked there is nothing in the CBA that prohibits this

U are missing the point of my carefully crafted diatribe...I really don't care if he smokes..I don't know if he still does, nor do I care, really!!...We can't keep changing the plan on the fly was my point...You can't take Calderon contract then try to trade him within months then say you are set with him at a position when you couldn't trade him..Or the other half dozen moves that don't match what you are saying...For which last night's move was a baffling as everything else he does...

What was baffling about him taking arguably the BPA who reminds him of Pau Gasol?

Pau can play defense and play the post...

Was he doing that at 19? Honest question.

Can't say, I know what Gasol was when Phil got him to play the triangle and the answer is yes..He reminds you of Gasol at 19??.You remember Gasol then??? honestly??

I'm just going by what I read. I don't have a memory or eye like that but I posted Gasol's 2001 draft review upthread. So what I'm saying is I'm very OK with a draftee not being ready for double-doubles day one. But looks like this guy is double-double capable season one if all goes well and the system works.

holfresh wrote:

BasketballJones wrote:Is thread this what's meant by the term "Hippie punching"?

This entire exercise was to bring out the woodwork..Success!!

Trolling usually works that way.

foosballnick wrote:

holfresh wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

holfresh wrote:
My argument at the time if I remember correctly was that Isiah had a mandate from Dolan...I vividly remember an Isiah interview where he said he equated what was asked of him akin to changing the engine of an airplane in flight..In other words, His directive was not to rebuild but to trade pieces and picks for players than can win now...

I conceded that he suck at it...I vigorously defended because of the directive..He didn't have the option or the leeway to rebuild..The owner said build it this way..Not the same as what Phil currently have...We had dead weight players like Kurt Thomas etc..Phil has Melo and cap space...It's completely different...But again, I wanted Phil here too..

Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..

I said it back then too but some how I can't shake it...Let me continue...

Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..Isiah sucked, yes I agree..Yes he sucked..Yes Isiah sucked..

OK - let me see if I got this.

You believe Isiah sucked - but gave him a pass at his suckiness because he publicly blamed his suckiness on a directive from Dolan. So basically Isiah is a person who passes the buck and is not accountable for his own actions - and you give him a pass.

You believe Jackson sucks - but do not give him a pass at his suckiness because he has publicly stated he is is own man. So basically Phil takes accountability for his actions, and you don't give him a pass.

This is bordering on pointless no??..It's easier when u think I hate Phil so why not run with that...

I'm not the one creating Fire Phil threads, Weed Smoking Hippy Pothead Phil threads and Don't Have Faith in Phil Poll threads all in the name of "trying to bring out the woodwork" as you claimed - which is just another way to say you were trolling the board.

Whatever works for ya, booo...

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:I blame Phil for giving Melo his contact. Stupid move.
I appreciate Phil for being able to change course and move on from that mistake.

Signing Melo was a risk. Much bigger risk than drafting Proz. The risk backfired when Melo got injured.

But to keep spending all your real and future assets to surround this guy with players so he can take us to two more first round records is exactly the wrong thing to do.

In business you don't throw good money after bad money. You cut your losses and move on.

Letting him walk in free agency would have been the right move. All this garbage about getting value back is just noise. The cap space you free up by letting him go all the value you need.

Both Stephen A's and OP'S diatribes are directed at Phil for having cut his losses and moved on. This is not based on reasoning or logic. It's an emotional outburst from a fan. Yeah its my opinion.

Given the draft choice I would be even happier if he gets FAs with the future in mind. Any team with Melo as the feature star isn't winning anything. Now or later. The data is overwhelming and no I am not talking college ball.

This post is so wrong on so many different levels. Melo is not Josh Smith. You absolutely can get value out of Melo in a trade; IMHO it would have been downright dump not to resign him and just let him walk without getting value in return.

Depends on how you define value. Never said anything about Josh smith. The only "value" we would get would be other overpaid players with some type of issue. It's not like we would get a franchise caliber player in a trade for Melo. On the other hand cap space is a trade-able asset. You can surrender cap space plus a combination of players to obtain a player of your liking. Conversely, in a trade you are limited to one or two teams that are able to pull it off and also has enough desire to do so and then you ca only get whatever they don't want.

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:You aren't happy with the pick holfresh, fine. I don't know enough about these players or basektball in general to make a call either way. But I am just tired of being part of a fanbase that acts like some sort of cyberarmy of hate and childishness all over the Internet to echo the dumb heckling of some clowns, which ape whatever the backpages of tabloids told them to think. Yesterday's Post has a 2-page spread of Mudiay in the tailor shop for Christ's sake.

It's all soap operas until these guys hit the court. I have issues with Phil too. It does seem like he is trying to have his cake and eat it too here, but who knows what happens. I didn't think that 54-win team had that in them, so maybe he'll strike a nice balance. You know, like a nice indica-sativa hybrid.

You are missing the point..It's not the pick as its the direction or the plan...Nevermind...

So are you really following the SAS line of thought:

You signed Melo to a nearly Max contract

Melo is 31 and not going to be any better than he is now

We need to find the right FAs to surround him with

We needed to draft a player more ready to play even if they fall outside of the BPA rule of drafting OR

We needed to trade back for a young veteran and a lesser pick who is more ready to play

Pretty much but my question..I even heard Phil say it..Phil said the kid is a bigger risk but there is a bigger reward...I don't know what that means..How does he know what the ceiling for this kid is..Because you took a bigger risk doesn't mean you will be rewarded on par with your risk..It's not gambling where the payoff odds are greater for the bigger risk you take..

But are we really saying the he is better than Mudiay or Winslow??

I basically wanted a player who was more NBA ready..Another starter to fill a need with upside...Winslow first, Mudiay second..

Phil won't be here when this kid is really ready to play..

We sign a max dude and another piece...To that we add the pick..I just want to see competitive ball...5 years from now means nothing to me...

Are you really banking on 5 years from now with Mills driving the bus??

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:You aren't happy with the pick holfresh, fine. I don't know enough about these players or basektball in general to make a call either way. But I am just tired of being part of a fanbase that acts like some sort of cyberarmy of hate and childishness all over the Internet to echo the dumb heckling of some clowns, which ape whatever the backpages of tabloids told them to think. Yesterday's Post has a 2-page spread of Mudiay in the tailor shop for Christ's sake.

It's all soap operas until these guys hit the court. I have issues with Phil too. It does seem like he is trying to have his cake and eat it too here, but who knows what happens. I didn't think that 54-win team had that in them, so maybe he'll strike a nice balance. You know, like a nice indica-sativa hybrid.

You are missing the point..It's not the pick as its the direction or the plan...Nevermind...

So are you really following the SAS line of thought:

You signed Melo to a nearly Max contract

Melo is 31 and not going to be any better than he is now

We need to find the right FAs to surround him with

We needed to draft a player more ready to play even if they fall outside of the BPA rule of drafting OR

We needed to trade back for a young veteran and a lesser pick who is more ready to play

Pretty much but my question..I even heard Phil say it..Phil said the kid is a bigger risk but there is a bigger reward...I don't know what that means..How does he know what the ceiling for this kid is..Because you took a bigger risk doesn't mean you will be rewarded on par with your risk..It's not gambling where the payoff odds are greater for the bigger risk you take..

But are we really saying the he is better than Mudiay or Winslow??

I basically wanted a player who was more NBA ready..Another starter to fill a need with upside...Winslow first, Mudiay second..

Phil won't be here when this kid is really ready to play..

We sign a max dude and another piece...To that we add the pick..I just want to see competitive ball...5 years from now means nothing to me...

Are you really banking on 5 years from now with Mills driving the bus??

Pau Gasol was 17.6ppg 8.6rpg 2.1bpg his first year in the NBA. Dirk was 8.2ppg 3.4rpg year 1, 17.5ppg 6.5rpg year 2. I think he'll be closer to Dirk's progression, but that's not five years. If he's good, we'll know before Year 5.

Physical strength has a lot to do with it..Because he is the same dimensions doesn't mean he was as strong as those guys...His problem right now is strength..He said he got stronger since he played in Europe and he will get stronger before the season starts..I mean come on..

One guy criticized Winslow saying he was 6'4" playing PF bulling people...Isn't that a good thing if a just turned 19 yr old who is 6'4" can bully PFs..What will he do to SF and SG??