Vmart wrote:Shades of the McDyess deal. Denver sends the Knicks damaged goods and get a higher pick.

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:I expect that Phil would take Kaminsky or Winslow at 7- I think Lyles is more of a 10-13 guy. DraftNet really likes him, though.

Maybe he was out of position, but I never saw anything special from him- he never really stood out.

The DExpress vids show a pretty sound player, not a great defender, though.

Looks like he has a good midrange shot and has some brains. Also saw some movement in the post that I liked.

Another young guy, who does not have his adult muscle yet.

Maybe he's the one who stood out in those KU practices. They would have seen him going up against Towns, Stein, and Johnson, maybe he showed something there.

For some reason I think of Earl Clark when I think of Lyles...not sure Lyles deserves this thought.

Are there any workout videos of him around? Would like to see if he's worked on his upper body.

Funny watching some of the DExpress clips for Lyles and seeing Stein getting pushed around or boxed out in the post at times. Lyles seemed stronger than Stein at.

He has a terrible write up at draft net everything we dont want from a 4.

Does not do one thing at an elite level ... Not a high flyer. A smooth athlete, but not very explosive ... Remains to be seen, but could potentially be relegated to a stretch 4 at the next level because of his lack of explosiveness ... Not especially quick, lacks speed ... Needs to improve his on-ball defense ... Does not possess great lateral quickness, which results in him getting beat off the bounce too often ... Struggles with defending quicker players ... Not overly athletic (for NBA’s standards) ... Inconsistent and struggles from the 3-point line (currently shooting 13 percent) ... Does not overmatch anyone on offense with the strength he has ... Needs to add more strength to his build and bulk up ... Slow-footed … Is not known for his shot blocking/rim protecting abilities … Does not have the abilities to be a good individual defender right now, especially in space ... Does not come up with many steals ... Average low post and perimeter defender ... Was asked to play as a 3 for much of the time, which played to his strengths as a face up scorer, but didn't help to improve upon his back to the basket skills

They went out of their way to say hes a shtty defender in almost every way.

Problem with many of the younger players is that you simply have no idea what they will look like in a few years, and how the maturation process will influence their game. He looked underdeveloped physically when I saw him in games. Not thin, but he clearly lacked upper body strength.

Training makes a difference, but we all know that individuals develop at different rates. Seems like he has enough room to become much stronger, and maybe his quickness improves a little.

Verdict is still out on Lyles. Still say he is a 10-13 possibility, but I would never take him 4-8...but then again, I am not Phil.

CrushAlot wrote:What if the Knicks do this deal and grab Stanley Johnson. He worked out for them but there hasnt been the same buzz about Johnson. Physically Johnson s taller, has a longer wingspan and is 20 lbs heavier tan Winslow.

Johnson is a whole lot better than Lyles. That could make it palatable. I feel the Knicks can get similar to Trey Lyles at pick 35. I think Rakeem Christmas is better than Lyles. Better defender and has the same mid range jumpshot.

But were not getting the best player and that counts in the NBA. Hezonja is better than Johnson.

EwingsGlass wrote:Denver is in cap hell with their stable of middling players on mid to high price contracts. With no cap flexibility, they have to be looking to move some salary and or add serious value through the Draft. Me, I am not bailing Denver out by taking on their players unless it genuinely fills a need to put me over the top. Their are plenty of PGs better than Lawson availlable in free agency. Nurkic is interesting, but I'm not sure I am a risk taker with my new found cap flexibility. Basically, Denver is going to have to pay to get my pick... Not just a fair deal, I want value because of their cap problems. We suffered for years overpaying to make deals work and dump salary. I want their 2016 pick in any deal.

Which PG's that are available in free agency are better than Lawson?? Dragic is the only one I can think of and he's staying in Miami so what other PG's are out there??

BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:What if the Knicks do this deal and grab Stanley Johnson. He worked out for them but there hasnt been the same buzz about Johnson. Physically Johnson s taller, has a longer wingspan and is 20 lbs heavier tan Winslow.

Johnson is a whole lot better than Lyles. That could make it palatable. I feel the Knicks can get similar to Trey Lyles at pick 35. I think Rakeem Christmas is better than Lyles. Better defender and has the same mid range jumpshot.

But were not getting the best player and that counts in the NBA. Hezonja is better than Johnson.

All I'm asking/praying/hoping you can/will do is stop talking in facts because you have none/zero.

WaltLongmire wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:I expect that Phil would take Kaminsky or Winslow at 7- I think Lyles is more of a 10-13 guy. DraftNet really likes him, though.

Maybe he was out of position, but I never saw anything special from him- he never really stood out.

The DExpress vids show a pretty sound player, not a great defender, though.

Looks like he has a good midrange shot and has some brains. Also saw some movement in the post that I liked.

Another young guy, who does not have his adult muscle yet.

Maybe he's the one who stood out in those KU practices. They would have seen him going up against Towns, Stein, and Johnson, maybe he showed something there.

For some reason I think of Earl Clark when I think of Lyles...not sure Lyles deserves this thought.

Are there any workout videos of him around? Would like to see if he's worked on his upper body.

Funny watching some of the DExpress clips for Lyles and seeing Stein getting pushed around or boxed out in the post at times. Lyles seemed stronger than Stein at.

He has a terrible write up at draft net everything we dont want from a 4.

Does not do one thing at an elite level ... Not a high flyer. A smooth athlete, but not very explosive ... Remains to be seen, but could potentially be relegated to a stretch 4 at the next level because of his lack of explosiveness ... Not especially quick, lacks speed ... Needs to improve his on-ball defense ... Does not possess great lateral quickness, which results in him getting beat off the bounce too often ... Struggles with defending quicker players ... Not overly athletic (for NBA’s standards) ... Inconsistent and struggles from the 3-point line (currently shooting 13 percent) ... Does not overmatch anyone on offense with the strength he has ... Needs to add more strength to his build and bulk up ... Slow-footed … Is not known for his shot blocking/rim protecting abilities … Does not have the abilities to be a good individual defender right now, especially in space ... Does not come up with many steals ... Average low post and perimeter defender ... Was asked to play as a 3 for much of the time, which played to his strengths as a face up scorer, but didn't help to improve upon his back to the basket skills

They went out of their way to say hes a shtty defender in almost every way.

Not saying I want him, especially in the top 10, but some see value there.

Problem with many of the younger players is that you simply have no idea what they will look like in a few years, and how the maturation process will influence their game. He looked underdeveloped physically when I saw him in games. Not thin, but he clearly lacked upper body strength.

Training makes a difference, but we all know that individuals develop at different rates. Seems like he has enough room to become much stronger, and maybe his quickness improves a little.

Verdict is still out on Lyles. Still say he is a 10-13 possibility, but I would never take him 4-8...but then again, I am not Phil.

Yeah it scares me a little with all the rumors of how much Phil loves Lyles for the triangle. There's a lot of experts that think he's one of the most underrated players in the draft and some think he's a mid round pick that will be a good/average player which is still good if you're picking in the middle of the first but who knows where we'll be making our first pick with all the trade down talk.

I'm in an "I don't know what the F we're going to do...just have to sit back and hope Phil knows what he is doing mode."

Gut feeling is that if we trade out to 7 with Denver, we take Kaminsky...if we do something with Phoenix, for example, we take Lyles, although I thought I read something about Bird liking Lyles over Stein(though he allegedly told Stein he was a "$100 M player"), and he might not get past the Pacers.

Who knows what is going on.

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:I expect that Phil would take Kaminsky or Winslow at 7- I think Lyles is more of a 10-13 guy. DraftNet really likes him, though.

Maybe he was out of position, but I never saw anything special from him- he never really stood out.

The DExpress vids show a pretty sound player, not a great defender, though.

Looks like he has a good midrange shot and has some brains. Also saw some movement in the post that I liked.

Another young guy, who does not have his adult muscle yet.

Maybe he's the one who stood out in those KU practices. They would have seen him going up against Towns, Stein, and Johnson, maybe he showed something there.

For some reason I think of Earl Clark when I think of Lyles...not sure Lyles deserves this thought.

Are there any workout videos of him around? Would like to see if he's worked on his upper body.

Funny watching some of the DExpress clips for Lyles and seeing Stein getting pushed around or boxed out in the post at times. Lyles seemed stronger than Stein at.

He has a terrible write up at draft net everything we dont want from a 4.

Does not do one thing at an elite level ... Not a high flyer. A smooth athlete, but not very explosive ... Remains to be seen, but could potentially be relegated to a stretch 4 at the next level because of his lack of explosiveness ... Not especially quick, lacks speed ... Needs to improve his on-ball defense ... Does not possess great lateral quickness, which results in him getting beat off the bounce too often ... Struggles with defending quicker players ... Not overly athletic (for NBA’s standards) ... Inconsistent and struggles from the 3-point line (currently shooting 13 percent) ... Does not overmatch anyone on offense with the strength he has ... Needs to add more strength to his build and bulk up ... Slow-footed … Is not known for his shot blocking/rim protecting abilities … Does not have the abilities to be a good individual defender right now, especially in space ... Does not come up with many steals ... Average low post and perimeter defender ... Was asked to play as a 3 for much of the time, which played to his strengths as a face up scorer, but didn't help to improve upon his back to the basket skills

They went out of their way to say hes a shtty defender in almost every way.

Not saying I want him, especially in the top 10, but some see value there.

Problem with many of the younger players is that you simply have no idea what they will look like in a few years, and how the maturation process will influence their game. He looked underdeveloped physically when I saw him in games. Not thin, but he clearly lacked upper body strength.

Training makes a difference, but we all know that individuals develop at different rates. Seems like he has enough room to become much stronger, and maybe his quickness improves a little.

Verdict is still out on Lyles. Still say he is a 10-13 possibility, but I would never take him 4-8...but then again, I am not Phil.

Yeah it scares me a little with all the rumors of how much Phil loves Lyles for the triangle. There's a lot of experts that think he's one of the most underrated players in the draft and some think he's a mid round pick that will be a good/average player which is still good if you're picking in the middle of the first but who knows where we'll be making our first pick with all the trade down talk.

I'm in an "I don't know what the F we're going to do...just have to sit back and hope Phil knows what he is doing mode."

Gut feeling is that if we trade out to 7 with Denver, we take Kaminsky...if we do something with Phoenix, for example, we take Lyles, although I thought I read something about Bird liking Lyles over Stein(though he allegedly told Stein he was a "$100 M player"), and he might not get past the Pacers.

Who knows what is going on.

If we trade down and take Lyles at 7 it will be the "worst" catcall in the history of NY sports. he will get booed severely--not personal to the kid in this case but hes a consensus 15 pick if we look at all mocks combined and taking him at 7 moving down from 4 will be a true disaster--it will be and it might be something we look back at for years. There is more safety taking Kaminsky at 7 as he is 7-1 with elite shooting skills and can play 5-4 etc.. Lyles is a pure 4 who plays porous defense. I just dont think you even consider such a move. So we watch Mario and Kristaps become all stars while we get 11-7 out of Trey Lyles for a 32 win team? Kaminsky at 7-1 gives me hope that he has NBA upside that Lyles will not.