I think he played 2 years in Europe, so around here that would knock him down a few slots.

I would therefore pick him 24th in the draft.

Major steal at that spot.

I think thats similar to Ok4 vs Stein....

A young Duncan had agility like Stein and was more athletic than ok4.....

who would you take right now to build your team around....Duncan or Ibaka.....Serious question?

Knicks1969 wrote:

blkexec wrote:Old Duncan or Young Ibaka?

I think thats similar to Ok4 vs Stein....

A young Duncan had agility like Stein and was more athletic than ok4.....

who would you take right now to build your team around....Duncan or Ibaka.....Serious question?

Old TD Vs. new Ibaka? I would take Ibaka

Thats my thinking.....Ibaka would have a greater impact on this team than an old TD. I think Stein has Ibaka potential. Both are agile....they can guard the perimeter and the rim. Ibaka's jumpshot really shocked me, but Stein seems to already have the right form to be a good shooter. He just needs to build up the confidence. Thats easier to fix, than someone with a mechanical flaw.

At this point, I'm just excited to see who we draft......How Phil handles this offseason. See if we can really trust Phil to turn this ship around. We will soon know the answer to these questions when the draft is completed.

martin wrote:So would folks draft Ibaka at 4?

Winslow or Stein at 4

Butler or Ibaka at 4

These are the players potential ceiling for both guys. Sometimes it's easier to make decisions when looking at the players realistic potential.

We need them both, so I don't think it's a right or wrong answer. Winslow has always been my pick since watching the tourney.

But it comes down to supply and demand. I don't think you can find an Ibaka type of player all the time. In fact, I think there's only 1 Ibaka type in the draft, and non in free agency. But you can argue that there are multiple 6'6 type two way players that are sprinkled through out the 1st and 2nd round. So based on that supply and demand analysis, I would go with Ibaka at my top pick. Look to buy another pick and or use free agency to find a Winslow comparison (Carroll, Green, Harris, etc.....)

blkexec wrote:But it comes down to supply and demand. I don't think you can find an Ibaka type of player all the time. In fact, I think there's only 1 Ibaka type in the draft, and non in free agency. But you can argue that there are multiple 6'6 type two way players that are sprinkled through out the 1st and 2nd round. So based on that supply and demand analysis, I would go with Ibaka at my top pick. Look to buy another pick and or use free agency to find a Winslow comparison (Carroll, Green, Harris, etc.....)

I think you can buy 2-way wings but not sure you can do the same for Ibaka type.

WCS
Melo
Overpay
Overpay
Gallo

in 2016 when cap goes up you can still find the next max player.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:But it comes down to supply and demand. I don't think you can find an Ibaka type of player all the time. In fact, I think there's only 1 Ibaka type in the draft, and non in free agency. But you can argue that there are multiple 6'6 type two way players that are sprinkled through out the 1st and 2nd round. So based on that supply and demand analysis, I would go with Ibaka at my top pick. Look to buy another pick and or use free agency to find a Winslow comparison (Carroll, Green, Harris, etc.....)

I think you can buy 2-way wings but not sure you can do the same for Ibaka type.

WCS
Melo
Overpay
Overpay
Gallo

in 2016 when cap goes up you can still find the next max player.

That's been my basic premise for a while now. I question how a front court of Melo/Stein/Monroe would work - but that is a very classic frontcourt set up that Phil would like. As long as we could add a DeMarre Carroll type at SG, I think the team could be very good.

I do worry that Winslow may actually be very very good and he's the guy I worry most about passing. And sometimes Mudiay, but less so.

I think Porzingis CAN be good, but I really question if the Knicks have the organization to bring him along and develop him the right way. Is he two years away?

The other thing that worries me is that there are sure to be some very good players further down the board, but I don't know if there's any way to realistically target who that would be.

In the end, I keep coming back to wanting to pick Stein and knowing I have a strong defensive center for the next ten years.

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:So would folks draft Ibaka at 4?

I would definitely consider it. You need a guy like that to contend, I feel. GSW has one in Draymond Green. Cleveland has Tristan Thompson. Atlanta has Horford. DeAndre on the Clips. Dwight on the Rockets.

That said, we definitely need talent on the wing and at the point as well, so I would take Russell in a second. And I would take a long long look at Winslow and Mudiay, too.

I think my order of importance is WCS the big and rangy defender first. As exciting as it is to think of having Russell, I just don't think he'd have the kind of impact that we need in terms of finally being able to defend and slow teams down. He would most surely improve the team scoring which is also necessary, but I think less so than the need on defense. I would be fine with Russell of course but i'm more focused on the need to have a long term answer on D for this team.

There are WAY more offensive guards coming into the league every year than Elite defenders like WCS. IMO there are even other guards in this very draft that would be great to go after later in the draft if Phil can add another pick. In Free Agency there are some great 3nD wings we can add as well to enhance the boost we'd get from WCS on D. I just see a much clearer path to building a great defensive team going with WCS. We'd still be able to score well enough IMO.

Some may not agree, but Payne has a similar offensive impact as Russell. Russell might be better, but only marginally better. Don't get me wrong, you have to add Russell, or the Garden would be set on fire. But if we miss out on Russell, all Im saying is that it's not as big of a deal as one might think. At 4 we have the opportunity to draft a need, which is rare these days. And our need for the longest was defense. Unless we were 1 player away from having the best offensive team in the NBA, then adding another scorer could put you on GS level. But with Phil and fisher, they are all about defense.

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Its been a long time since we could watch someone throw the ball inside and see our big do damage without being spoon fed the ball. Thats why Id take Okafor.

If that was really all this team needed i'd say sure, but I think Okafor is only a small part of what this team needs. I think we would make much more substantial improvement with WCS as the top Defensive anchor and a player like Monroe in the post. I think Okafor is going to be a great offensive post player but I don't think he's what this team needs. I think OK4 is gonna be a bit of a One Trick Pony. He would make the team slower and less versatile on D and a little bit on offense too. He's not comfortable away from the basket and he's not a reliable FT shooter which limits his impact late in games.

With WCS we can keep it moving and play faster. He's fast running the floor and getting early offense. He can be used to pressure the opposing team, shutting down PnR, getting steals and blocks. On offense WCS can finish in PnR and get us more chances with offensive boards. WCS is much more effective without the ball. He quite simply can move and cut much better than OK4 which makes for a great fit with Melo. If OK4 doesn't have the ball he's diminished in terms of his impact. WCS is always moving and a threat to finish dump offs or put backs over the top of the defense.

You make it sound like a legit low post threat is almost an afterthought. When was the last time we had one? How has that worked out for us? You call Okafor a "one trick pony" but WCS is someone who is known primarily as a defensive specialist. I will take the high level low post player every time. You emphasize Okafor's short comings and gloss over WCS's. You say that Okafor has problems at the free throw line but you dont mention that WCS has no real offensive skills other than cleaning up at the rim. I still dont want Monroe, would rather go after Green, not even a contest IMO.

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Its been a long time since we could watch someone throw the ball inside and see our big do damage without being spoon fed the ball. Thats why Id take Okafor.

If that was really all this team needed i'd say sure, but I think Okafor is only a small part of what this team needs. I think we would make much more substantial improvement with WCS as the top Defensive anchor and a player like Monroe in the post. I think Okafor is going to be a great offensive post player but I don't think he's what this team needs. I think OK4 is gonna be a bit of a One Trick Pony. He would make the team slower and less versatile on D and a little bit on offense too. He's not comfortable away from the basket and he's not a reliable FT shooter which limits his impact late in games.

With WCS we can keep it moving and play faster. He's fast running the floor and getting early offense. He can be used to pressure the opposing team, shutting down PnR, getting steals and blocks. On offense WCS can finish in PnR and get us more chances with offensive boards. WCS is much more effective without the ball. He quite simply can move and cut much better than OK4 which makes for a great fit with Melo. If OK4 doesn't have the ball he's diminished in terms of his impact. WCS is always moving and a threat to finish dump offs or put backs over the top of the defense.

You make it sound like a legit low post threat is almost an afterthought. When was the last time we had one? How has that worked out for us? You call Okafor a "one trick pony" but WCS is someone who is known primarily as a defensive specialist. I will take the high level low post player every time. You emphasize Okafor's short comings and gloss over WCS's. You say that Okafor has problems at the free throw line but you dont mention that WCS has no real offensive skills other than cleaning up at the rim. I still dont want Monroe, would rather go after Green, not even a contest IMO.

WCS just does more without the ball than Okafor. I like Okafor but at the same time I value the high level of defense that WCS would bring more than what Okafor does. Now you can make it work with Okafor inside and adding a defensive big next to him. So it's not like I think he'd be awful and you couldn't build around him. That's not what I'm saying at all.

Also people are being way too harsh on WCS and his offensive skills. He's not totally devoid of any ability to score in the flow of an offense. WCS got started later in basketball than most of the top prospects. He's only going to get more comfortable as he works on his skills. Then you will see that he's a much better overall player than you realized. People aren't factoring in the late start WCS got but how he's been making progress offensively.

Okafor isn't much different from Monroe in that he doesn't have much of a game away from the post. He's better than Monroe but Monroe has been productive at the NBA level and you know what he's actually capable of whereas we will have to see what OK4 will be able to do. Monroe is ready to rock and roll right now at a higher level. He's used to playing next to a defensive big as he did with Drummond. He makes great passes big to big.

Monroe has also had plenty of games like this, which indicate the kind of potential he has.