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If Cleveland wins it all, where does that rank lebron?
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mreinman
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is it possible that he can be considered the best of all time because of how little he won with?

or, will he get dinged because of the lack of competition compared to years past?

GS is a damn good team, but old schoolers will always view 80's (teams) as better.

top 5 of all time
top 10 of all time
best of all time
not top 10
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holfresh
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6/10/2015  12:59 PM
Krauss at the time, offered Kukoc more money than Michael and Pippen was making, even after they were winning back to back titles...That's why they were pissed...
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Bonn1997
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6/10/2015  2:01 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:If Cleveland wins it would be great but this would not be the most miraculous win ever. I compared what Lebron is doing now to what Dirk did against him when he was in Miami but the truth is Dallas might have had an even worse roster than CLeveland does right now and Dirk had to carry that roster the whole year in the Western Conference. Dirk won with arguably less talent and against a more talented team than GSw.

This Cleveland win would just help remove some of the stain of that lose, imo.


Not giving Tyson any credit?
Seriously, I think if you look at most of the advanced stats, you'll find a bigger difference between Lebron and his (remaining) teammates in this year's finals than Dirk and his teammates in the finals. That's not just Tyson - Terry also contributed a lot in the playoffs. I'm looking at win shares, box score plus minus, value above replacement, and per 100 #s.
yellowboy90
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6/10/2015  2:13 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:If Cleveland wins it would be great but this would not be the most miraculous win ever. I compared what Lebron is doing now to what Dirk did against him when he was in Miami but the truth is Dallas might have had an even worse roster than CLeveland does right now and Dirk had to carry that roster the whole year in the Western Conference. Dirk won with arguably less talent and against a more talented team than GSw.

This Cleveland win would just help remove some of the stain of that lose, imo.


Not giving Tyson any credit?
Seriously, I think if you look at most of the advanced stats, you'll find a bigger difference between Lebron and his (remaining) teammates in this year's finals than Dirk and his teammates in the finals. That's not just Tyson - Terry also contributed a lot in the playoffs. I'm looking at win shares, box score plus minus, value above replacement, and per 100 #s.

You talking about career, season, or playoff run? I am just focusing on the players actual season and playoff stats. Also, I am not over looking Tyson but Moz is doing some good things for Cleveland not exactly Tyson rebounding or efficiency but he is providing rim protection.


I doubt it. Where is Nixluva with a nice coded breakdown of both rosters stats?

Bonn1997
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6/10/2015  2:19 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/10/2015  2:20 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:If Cleveland wins it would be great but this would not be the most miraculous win ever. I compared what Lebron is doing now to what Dirk did against him when he was in Miami but the truth is Dallas might have had an even worse roster than CLeveland does right now and Dirk had to carry that roster the whole year in the Western Conference. Dirk won with arguably less talent and against a more talented team than GSw.

This Cleveland win would just help remove some of the stain of that lose, imo.


Not giving Tyson any credit?
Seriously, I think if you look at most of the advanced stats, you'll find a bigger difference between Lebron and his (remaining) teammates in this year's finals than Dirk and his teammates in the finals. That's not just Tyson - Terry also contributed a lot in the playoffs. I'm looking at win shares, box score plus minus, value above replacement, and per 100 #s.

You talking about career, season, or playoff run? I am just focusing on the players actual season and playoff stats. Also, I am not over looking Tyson but Moz is doing some good things for Cleveland not exactly Tyson rebounding or efficiency but he is providing rim protection.


I doubt it. Where is Nixluva with a nice coded breakdown of both rosters stats?


I was mostly looking at playoff run stats. Yeah, I would say the exact same about Moz.
Bonn1997
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6/10/2015  6:01 PM
mreinman wrote:
Nalod wrote:I think when your somewhere in the top 5, ranking is kind of tough. Thru three games this is some sort of Heroic journey and very "Jordanesque" in not just the mental focus, but also physically holding up.

The level of leadership is beyond Jordan, and not that he was not capable, but it was never called for as the Bulls were a deep excellent roster! Lebron is doing some super freaky leadership thing I don't think has been done before.

They not out of the woods yet, but if not for the first game lapse the'd be up 3-0!!!!

Warriors are not playing badly either!!!!

Jordan's 6-0 perfection in the finals is a thing of beauty. Russells 11 chips in 13 years is the golden standard. Kobe never had to do what Lebron is trying to do. Im rooting for lebron to forge his legacy.

Its not Russells, or jordans, but something different. Thats even better!

Jordans 6-0 perfection was a thing of beauty ... agree ... but pippens 6-0 perfection is a thing of beauty too. Also, Pippen was a terrible call away from being a favorite in the finals to make him 7-0 without jordan.

Lebron is doing this with a terrible roster and if you took him off, they would be a terrible team.

this win would cement him right up there.

And almost another triple double last night again ... if only his teammates could shoot a bit better but he is sure getting them to play balls to the wall defense.

Lebron sets very high expectations for his teammates and he is leading them to accomplish these.


You've gotten me thinking about this a lot more. It's a good discussion. You're right that Jordan had much better teammates but he faced a much better east too. Even though GS is a good, worthy opponent, the odds are so much more in your favor if you only have to beat one serious team each year in the playoffs than if you have to beat 3.
Do I think MJ could carry a bad roster deep in the east and occasionally to the finals? Yes. Do I think he'd at least once win a ring? Probably. He took a terrible roster in 1988-9 deep in a tougher east. If you look at the win shares and other advanced stats, his teammates then were much worse than Lebron's.
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If Cleveland wins it all, where does that rank lebron?
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