holfresh wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:if tobias signs it basically means melo is going to PF fulltime... which i'm not opposed to but then you sign monroe or millsap and where do they play?

Tobias and Melo can play both the 3 or 4 so we can switch them up if need be. I wouldn't doubt if Phil thinks we could get by with Gallo/THJ/Calderon/Ledo and Shved at the 1 and 2 spots and maybe even bring in a veteran for cheap cause we'd have a lot of talent at the other 3 spots with some combo of Melo/T.Harris/P.Milsap and G.Monroe and we'd still have our draft pick to put somewhere.

Neither can defend the 4..

Neither one is as bad as people make them out to be and Harris is only 22 but they aren't making the all defensive team that's for sure.

Please see the 2013 NBA playoffs where David West back Melo down in the post every opportunity he got...

Where is David West now?

What am I, his agent?

I get what your saying but the league is changing...Draymond Green is the starting PF on a championship contending team. I think a rotation of Melo, Tobias, Monroe and Stein can work.. In todays NBA the bigs are playing smaller and the smalls are playing a little bigger...Its all about having at least 4 out of your 5 players that can put the ball on the floor and stretch the floor. Aint as many bruisers up front like in the 80's...

When you do run into that team, you adjust....Stein, Monroe and Melo up front, rotate Tobias in when the other team goes small up front...

Draymond Green defends the position..Atlanta got destroyed on the offensive boards with that type of line up..

Green gives good effort but he gets overmatched at times. Because of his size they also get killed on the offensive glass. When Melo played multiple minutes at 4, he put up big time numbers and was in the running for mvp ( top 5). He may be a bit too small for some 4's, but he can take advantage of them on the other end. Its all about matchups. Going small can make the other team adjust to you as Melo did many times during the 54 win season.

Another point is that you are asking Melo who is your top scorer to go in the battle to get beaten up more as his career advances..If anything, you should be lightening his load to prolong his career..

BRIGGS wrote:Think about how bad the basketball game would be if our two main guys were Harris and Carmelo--both guys who do not pass the ball. It would be a hoj poj of iso and than in-fighting of who should shoot the ball. And then those guys dont play defense. Sure throw Tobias the max--Im sure we can gegt him IF we give up a 2018 draft pick.

When you see a bunch of your own fans(Orlando) balking at bringing back their own player HMMM>>>

newyorker4ever wrote:

callmened wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Jalen also said his sources told him Melo was a lock to go to Chicago. He's got connections, but he's primarily in the entertainment business.

exactly. i enjoy listening to jalen - especially his old stories...but hes not an NBA insider

however ive been saying for months that i know for a FACT that Toby wants to play for the knicks. but its up to the magic if they will resign him

I'm pretty sure that since he practically said he wants to play for the Knicks that we all know he does. lol

The interesting thing there is that Skiles and Harris did not get along in Milwaukee. I don't know if the Magic would let him go for nothing for that reason... but who knows.

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:if tobias signs it basically means melo is going to PF fulltime... which i'm not opposed to but then you sign monroe or millsap and where do they play?

Tobias and Melo can play both the 3 or 4 so we can switch them up if need be. I wouldn't doubt if Phil thinks we could get by with Gallo/THJ/Calderon/Ledo and Shved at the 1 and 2 spots and maybe even bring in a veteran for cheap cause we'd have a lot of talent at the other 3 spots with some combo of Melo/T.Harris/P.Milsap and G.Monroe and we'd still have our draft pick to put somewhere.

Neither can defend the 4..

Neither one is as bad as people make them out to be and Harris is only 22 but they aren't making the all defensive team that's for sure.

Please see the 2013 NBA playoffs where David West back Melo down in the post every opportunity he got...

Where is David West now?

What am I, his agent?

I get what your saying but the league is changing...Draymond Green is the starting PF on a championship contending team. I think a rotation of Melo, Tobias, Monroe and Stein can work.. In todays NBA the bigs are playing smaller and the smalls are playing a little bigger...Its all about having at least 4 out of your 5 players that can put the ball on the floor and stretch the floor. Aint as many bruisers up front like in the 80's...

When you do run into that team, you adjust....Stein, Monroe and Melo up front, rotate Tobias in when the other team goes small up front...

Draymond Green defends the position..Atlanta got destroyed on the offensive boards with that type of line up..

Green gives good effort but he gets overmatched at times. Because of his size they also get killed on the offensive glass. When Melo played multiple minutes at 4, he put up big time numbers and was in the running for mvp ( top 5). He may be a bit too small for some 4's, but he can take advantage of them on the other end. Its all about matchups. Going small can make the other team adjust to you as Melo did many times during the 54 win season.

Another point is that you are asking Melo who is your top scorer to go in the battle to get beaten up more as his career advances..If anything, you should be lightening his load to prolong his career..

So you would rather Melo just stick at the SF spot instead of playing PF?? I know i would. I'd rather us sign or draft a starter for the PF spot and play Melo at SF.

Why would you prefer Melo at the 3 spot, when the team has been most successful with him at the 4? I much rather play him there and then get a defensive 5 to make up for the height differential.

codeunknown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

codeunknown wrote:Given the cap trajectory, you want to be aggressive in free agency but it needs to be with some degree of foresight of the eventual player combination in the triangle. I don't at all like 2 of Monroe, Millsap and Harris + Melo. This stupidity would ruin another 4 years.

Also u are spending all your money on your front line in a league that has become a perimeter league...

I agree that recent officiating and superior offensive schemes have allowed 3 point shooting to become a trump card but I disagree with the generalization that its necessarily a perimeter league. Oftentimes, we segment offense/defense/rebounding and perimeter/post aspects to focus our discussions but in reality there is a complex interplay between them, a management of tradeoffs. In that regard, the current metrics that are used are in their infancy and the movement of parts that converge at the 3 pointer are inadequately credited.

The triangle, for example, is a post-geared offense with transition defense balance that in theory can run in perpetuity until a desirable option is found. It also uses screen-action perpendicular to the basket and mid-court strong-weak side exchanges, which are relative emphasized compared to some other strategies. Is this additional complexity justified given current percentages with simple down-screen and roll? Its arguable. Overall, I like it and, notably, the offense is predicated on a dominant post player.

Don't forget the many rule changes geared in increase scoring which it has..Rules changes like perimeter hand checks, forearm checks, defensive 3 seconds where bigs can't cheet to help perimeter defenders, defensive rerouting so u can't follow perimeter players off screens, etc. designed to help the perimeter player..

I like the post game as well but let's not forget the perpetutual motion with previous Phil Jacskon teams usually ended in MJ's or Kobe's hands..

I didn't forget it - I mentioned it in the first sentence. However, the rule changes are not one sided as you present. Specifically your discussion of the defensive 3 rule doesn't account for its context: the 2001-02 allowance of zone defenses, which affect coverage for both offensive modes but preferentially contain all-angle dribble penetration. So, is the current zeitgeist that perimeter players are crucial largely because of the rule changes or because of a relative contemporary decline in premier post players compared to perimeter players? Probably both.

To me, it remains that the best blend/execution of perimeter and post play is determined by the talent available. With respect to the triangle, I'm arguing that it presents selective advantages a priori regardless of your interpretation of the reasons for success of Phil Jackson's previous teams.

Another rule change..The fouls where the offensive player attacking the paint/rim and draws contact is no longer called..Melo driving the lane against Hibbert in the playoffs and Hibbert jumps and create contact...NBA is discouraging these type of plays..

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo will start at the 3 and slide to 4 at different points in the game. There's no reason to look at him as a static position player. Just looking at how Phil wants to structure the team he clearly sees Melo as a tweener. Melo is not a PF in the way that Phil would want him to play on D. Phil wants more size at PF and C. Phil has already demonstrated that so it's not logical to think he'd move away from that.

All that stuff where Melo plays or slide to, doesn't matter...Where it matters is that Phil add complimentary pieces..Adding pieces that does the same things forcing Melo to play out of position is silly..

Melo is a tweener! He is more than capable of playing between 2 positions and he has. As he's matured he's been playing more PF, but he's more than capable of playing SF where he started. Obviously Phil is going to look to find players that complement Melo's game and help cover any weaknesses. Melo is a thicker than normal SF. He can play some PF but really he's not a true PF and especially on defense you don't want him having to constantly cover bigger PF's.

Why not just limited Melo to 31mpg and play him exclusively at the 4? I think that should be our goal, since it maximizes his time on the floor but moderates the wear and tear he'll experience during the season.