crzymdups wrote:

smackeddog wrote:SI.com has also changed theres but has:

1. Twolves- OK4
2. Lakers- Towns (annoying)
3. Sixers- Mudiay
4. Knicks- Russell (almost makes up for the hurt of missing out on Towns, and falling to 4th)

If the Knicks get Russell, I will run through the streets hugging strangers and wishing them a Merry Christmas like Ebenezer Scrooge at the end of A Christmas Carol. I'll buy Tiny Tim all the toys in the damn toy store.

Ha! It would certainly undo some of the frustration of these past few weeks. What team would you build around him in FA? I haven't even thought about it because it seems so unlikely. I'd be tempted to play him at SG, and just have cheapish PG who can defend and hit the 3- they can bring it up the court, but really its Russell who does most of the handling. Then just add the best defenders at PF and C (or SF if you move Melo to PF).

Knicks1969 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Mudiay is nothing special folks. If he were special, he wouldn't be this afraid to showcase his talent. The dude played less then 15 games in China, a league that he couldn't even dominate; but most of you sound here would not mind drafting this unknown commodity with the 4th over all pick. Some of you cares not about total package and smarts; all you care about is a stupid dude that can jump and dunk without a jump shot.

Give me: Russell, towns, Winslow, Lyles, and this draft will be a complete success

Well the good thing about that is nobody on here will be making the pick and if Mudiay ends up being the pick it will be made by people who know much much more about the kid than you or anyone on here does and those people also know much much more about basketball than you or anyone on here so we will see what the big wigs do in less than a mobth.

Thanks to our dumb coach, we are in this situation. Had we ended up with one of the top three picks, we would be in a totally different position. When I mentioned that fact at the end of the season, newyork4ever blasted me; because he claimed that winning those two games will not be as detrimental as predicted.

And if we had won a few more games we would have had the 2nd or 3rd pick, it's pointless to cry about it now. If we had lost those games, everything would have changed in the lead up to the lottery, and then butterfly effect would mean that the actual lottery would not have had exactly the same outcome- the person who switches on the machine, brings the balls, hits the switch, whatever- if they were a fraction of a second different the outcome would be altered.

If we were playing for a playoff spot like the Nets, I would have had no problem with the positioning. I am bothered by the fact that we looks like pure garbage all season and decided to win the last two games. The only thing that will console me is if we end up with Russell or if we trade the fourth pick to get WCS AND Winslow.

The problem with the idea that the Knicks "decided" to win the last two games is wrong to me because I actually think they were trying to win every night. They were just so terrible that they only won 17 all damn season. I didn't see a single game where they tried to tank. Maybe they should have, or maybe "the basketball gods" will smile upon us come draft day.

Hell, man, people would've complained even if the Knicks got the third pick, some probably even if they got two. They would've said that Fisher didn't do everything he could to ensure the no.1 pick, when history has shown you can't predict who is getting it. And some have noted that teams that lose superstars like Minnesota with Love or Cleveland with Lebron seemingly magically get the no.1 overall pick the next year. Who knows.

What if the Knicks had the worst record and still got 4th? It was the most likely single pick for the Knicks to get any way you slice it, going by odds they had a 37% chance of getting pick 4 with the worst record and a 31% chance of getting pick 4 with the second worst record.

crzymdups wrote:My big question about Winslow - can he legitimately play NBA SG? IF he can, he might be the best player on the board at 4. If he's too slow and not quick enough laterally to guard opposing SG, our starting lineup may potentially include guys at SG (Winslow), SF (Melo) and PF (Monroe) who are too slow to cover the guys at their own positions.

Some of you guys say defense is a thing guys can learn - I really think it comes down to quickness, strength, feel for the game and desire. Some of those things you can work on, some are just innate traits - I don't think many guys can really "improve" their quickness or explosiveness, not to the level that some athletes are just born with. Winslow is explosive. Is he quick on D? It was hard to tell given where Duke had him on the floor, for me, at least. (Not to repeat myself again and again, but this is why I like Stein - he has cat-like quickness you cannot teach. his ability to cover the pick and roll and patrol the middle and close out on shooters... I feel like he could improve our points allowed by 10ppg all by himself...)

I do like Winslow a lot - I just don't know whether he's a true SG or more of a "wing" 3 or something. I think he's going to be quite good though. As I've said, I could see him being a star for a team like the Spurs, which is a high compliment in my mind.

Todays Nba and the future of the league seems to be moving awsy from the traditional position by position basketball. Now its all about finding mismatches and fielding a team where at least 4 of your 5 players can put the ball on the floor and space the floor. We have seem lineups in GS where Iggy, Green, Thompson and Barnes were all on the floor at the dame time and they are all pretty close in size. Same in Atl. I dont think it would be a problem playing Melo and Winslow together in todays NBA.

With that said, Winslow ans Stein are the most intriguing prospects @4. Winslow is a 2 way player that can defend, shoot, rebound and finish on the break. He has that intangible that all good teams need.onl6 question witj him is can he put the ball on thr floor in the half court?

Stein is intriguing because he can disrupt the number one play in the league, the PNR. He is also the rim protector that every team needs not to mention a superior athlete at 7 ft tall. He can probably guard all 5 positions during situational basketball. Also, i suspect he is a better offensive player than he has shown.

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:My big question about Winslow - can he legitimately play NBA SG? IF he can, he might be the best player on the board at 4. If he's too slow and not quick enough laterally to guard opposing SG, our starting lineup may potentially include guys at SG (Winslow), SF (Melo) and PF (Monroe) who are too slow to cover the guys at their own positions.

Some of you guys say defense is a thing guys can learn - I really think it comes down to quickness, strength, feel for the game and desire. Some of those things you can work on, some are just innate traits - I don't think many guys can really "improve" their quickness or explosiveness, not to the level that some athletes are just born with. Winslow is explosive. Is he quick on D? It was hard to tell given where Duke had him on the floor, for me, at least. (Not to repeat myself again and again, but this is why I like Stein - he has cat-like quickness you cannot teach. his ability to cover the pick and roll and patrol the middle and close out on shooters... I feel like he could improve our points allowed by 10ppg all by himself...)

I do like Winslow a lot - I just don't know whether he's a true SG or more of a "wing" 3 or something. I think he's going to be quite good though. As I've said, I could see him being a star for a team like the Spurs, which is a high compliment in my mind.

Todays Nba and the future of the league seems to be moving awsy from the traditional position by position basketball. Now its all about finding mismatches and fielding a team where at least 4 of your 5 players can put the ball on the floor and space the floor. We have seem lineups in GS where Iggy, Green, Thompson and Barnes were all on the floor at the dame time and they are all pretty close in size. Same in Atl. I dont think it would be a problem playing Melo and Winslow together in todays NBA.

With that said, Winslow ans Stein are the most intriguing prospects @4. Winslow is a 2 way player that can defend, shoot, rebound and finish on the break. He has that intangible that all good teams need.onl6 question witj him is can he put the ball on thr floor in the half court?

Stein is intriguing because he can disrupt the number one play in the league, the PNR. He is also the rim protector that every team needs not to mention a superior athlete at 7 ft tall. He can probably guard all 5 positions during situational basketball. Also, i suspect he is a better offensive player than he has shown.

I agree - I just don't know as much about how Winslow's game would translate on D. I don't have a feel for him as a perimeter defender, which I'd think he'd need to be.

I agree the league is moving away from traditional positions... but our man Phil is very rooted to those, I feel.

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:My big question about Winslow - can he legitimately play NBA SG? IF he can, he might be the best player on the board at 4. If he's too slow and not quick enough laterally to guard opposing SG, our starting lineup may potentially include guys at SG (Winslow), SF (Melo) and PF (Monroe) who are too slow to cover the guys at their own positions.

Some of you guys say defense is a thing guys can learn - I really think it comes down to quickness, strength, feel for the game and desire. Some of those things you can work on, some are just innate traits - I don't think many guys can really "improve" their quickness or explosiveness, not to the level that some athletes are just born with. Winslow is explosive. Is he quick on D? It was hard to tell given where Duke had him on the floor, for me, at least. (Not to repeat myself again and again, but this is why I like Stein - he has cat-like quickness you cannot teach. his ability to cover the pick and roll and patrol the middle and close out on shooters... I feel like he could improve our points allowed by 10ppg all by himself...)

I do like Winslow a lot - I just don't know whether he's a true SG or more of a "wing" 3 or something. I think he's going to be quite good though. As I've said, I could see him being a star for a team like the Spurs, which is a high compliment in my mind.

Todays Nba and the future of the league seems to be moving awsy from the traditional position by position basketball. Now its all about finding mismatches and fielding a team where at least 4 of your 5 players can put the ball on the floor and space the floor. We have seem lineups in GS where Iggy, Green, Thompson and Barnes were all on the floor at the dame time and they are all pretty close in size. Same in Atl. I dont think it would be a problem playing Melo and Winslow together in todays NBA.

With that said, Winslow ans Stein are the most intriguing prospects @4. Winslow is a 2 way player that can defend, shoot, rebound and finish on the break. He has that intangible that all good teams need.onl6 question witj him is can he put the ball on thr floor in the half court?

Stein is intriguing because he can disrupt the number one play in the league, the PNR. He is also the rim protector that every team needs not to mention a superior athlete at 7 ft tall. He can probably guard all 5 positions during situational basketball. Also, i suspect he is a better offensive player than he has shown.

Uptown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:My big question about Winslow - can he legitimately play NBA SG? IF he can, he might be the best player on the board at 4. If he's too slow and not quick enough laterally to guard opposing SG, our starting lineup may potentially include guys at SG (Winslow), SF (Melo) and PF (Monroe) who are too slow to cover the guys at their own positions.

Some of you guys say defense is a thing guys can learn - I really think it comes down to quickness, strength, feel for the game and desire. Some of those things you can work on, some are just innate traits - I don't think many guys can really "improve" their quickness or explosiveness, not to the level that some athletes are just born with. Winslow is explosive. Is he quick on D? It was hard to tell given where Duke had him on the floor, for me, at least. (Not to repeat myself again and again, but this is why I like Stein - he has cat-like quickness you cannot teach. his ability to cover the pick and roll and patrol the middle and close out on shooters... I feel like he could improve our points allowed by 10ppg all by himself...)

I do like Winslow a lot - I just don't know whether he's a true SG or more of a "wing" 3 or something. I think he's going to be quite good though. As I've said, I could see him being a star for a team like the Spurs, which is a high compliment in my mind.

Todays Nba and the future of the league seems to be moving awsy from the traditional position by position basketball. Now its all about finding mismatches and fielding a team where at least 4 of your 5 players can put the ball on the floor and space the floor. We have seem lineups in GS where Iggy, Green, Thompson and Barnes were all on the floor at the dame time and they are all pretty close in size. Same in Atl. I dont think it would be a problem playing Melo and Winslow together in todays NBA.

With that said, Winslow ans Stein are the most intriguing prospects @4. Winslow is a 2 way player that can defend, shoot, rebound and finish on the break. He has that intangible that all good teams need.onl6 question witj him is can he put the ball on thr floor in the half court?

Stein is intriguing because he can disrupt the number one play in the league, the PNR. He is also the rim protector that every team needs not to mention a superior athlete at 7 ft tall. He can probably guard all 5 positions during situational basketball. Also, i suspect he is a better offensive player than he has shown.

Aside from Russell falling to #4, my picks are Winslow or WCS. I just think they help this team's biggest issue which is defense. WCS for me helps the entire team defensively. That's why I would take him at #4 and not care what anyone else thought about value at #4. If you want a team that can defend at a championship level you have to have a defensive anchor in addition to perimeter defense. The Defensive anchor is the hardest one to get tho.

Unless Russell falls to 4, Winslow or Stein are the best picks for me. I see some people do not want Stein but his skill is much needed on a team that wants to be good. The Knicks have many holes in the damn and were are not going to plug even half of them in this draft. Selecting Stein is a definitley one of the biggest holes we need to fill on this roster.

Most here would much rather go with the athletic high flyer Mudiay who can't even shoot the rock:)

smackeddog wrote:

yep, I'm not a fan of the FA C's either (outside of Gasol- a lineup with Russell and Gasol would be the dream, due to the passing), which is why I'd consider trading for Hibbert as a stop gap solution- I think NY would probably break him, but likely Pacers gives you something for taking on the last year of his salary, plus when he comes off the books next year, you have a tonne of cap space.

The Pacers have been trying to get Hibbert to opt out of his player option for next summer - they've basically asked him not to come back.

I'd think about him - he's pretty good - I actually started a thread on him about a month ago... it's an option for sure. Especially if he's UFA as the Pacers would like him to be.

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:My big question about Winslow - can he legitimately play NBA SG? IF he can, he might be the best player on the board at 4. If he's too slow and not quick enough laterally to guard opposing SG, our starting lineup may potentially include guys at SG (Winslow), SF (Melo) and PF (Monroe) who are too slow to cover the guys at their own positions.

Some of you guys say defense is a thing guys can learn - I really think it comes down to quickness, strength, feel for the game and desire. Some of those things you can work on, some are just innate traits - I don't think many guys can really "improve" their quickness or explosiveness, not to the level that some athletes are just born with. Winslow is explosive. Is he quick on D? It was hard to tell given where Duke had him on the floor, for me, at least. (Not to repeat myself again and again, but this is why I like Stein - he has cat-like quickness you cannot teach. his ability to cover the pick and roll and patrol the middle and close out on shooters... I feel like he could improve our points allowed by 10ppg all by himself...)

I do like Winslow a lot - I just don't know whether he's a true SG or more of a "wing" 3 or something. I think he's going to be quite good though. As I've said, I could see him being a star for a team like the Spurs, which is a high compliment in my mind.

I think you forgot one of the main things for a player to be good on defense and it's effort. A lot of these guys just don't wanna give the effort it takes to be a good defensive player. That's why a lot of guys are better at one of the other of defense and offense because it takes so much effort to be good/great at both.

desire = effort to me.

But I don't think any player can be great at D just because they want to - there are a lot of factors like length, lateral quickness, agility, the ability to quickly gather and jump a second time... David Lee and Channing Frye tried hard on defense... they just didn't have the athletic talent and length and quickness to be great. I think realizing those limitations actually caused them to become worse defenders over time - they tried less on plays they knew they couldn't make. Anyway, just my thoughts.

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

yep, I'm not a fan of the FA C's either (outside of Gasol- a lineup with Russell and Gasol would be the dream, due to the passing), which is why I'd consider trading for Hibbert as a stop gap solution- I think NY would probably break him, but likely Pacers gives you something for taking on the last year of his salary, plus when he comes off the books next year, you have a tonne of cap space.

The Pacers have been trying to get Hibbert to opt out of his player option for next summer - they've basically asked him not to come back.

I'd think about him - he's pretty good - I actually started a thread on him about a month ago... it's an option for sure. Especially if he's UFA as the Pacers would like him to be.

I think Hibbert gets a bum rap. He could be used much more effectively than he has. He's a great rim protector and has enough skills offensively to be a solid piece to a good team. I would have no problem with Hibbert. He would thrive in this system.

Question for me is how much money he wants. No way at $15M. At $10M... I think about him.

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

yep, I'm not a fan of the FA C's either (outside of Gasol- a lineup with Russell and Gasol would be the dream, due to the passing), which is why I'd consider trading for Hibbert as a stop gap solution- I think NY would probably break him, but likely Pacers gives you something for taking on the last year of his salary, plus when he comes off the books next year, you have a tonne of cap space.

The Pacers have been trying to get Hibbert to opt out of his player option for next summer - they've basically asked him not to come back.

I'd think about him - he's pretty good - I actually started a thread on him about a month ago... it's an option for sure. Especially if he's UFA as the Pacers would like him to be.

I think Hibbert gets a bum rap. He could be used much more effectively than he has. He's a great rim protector and has enough skills offensively to be a solid piece to a good team. I would have no problem with Hibbert. He would thrive in this system.

Like I said, he's definitely worth a shot. If he's smart he opts in to his final year, as he won't get more than that this season. The he's a FA when the cap rises next year, so thats a better time to sign the long term deal. If you can add him and 2 defensive players through FA and the draft, then our defensive woes would hopefully finally be a thing of the past.