fwk00 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:But here we are discussing whether or not to lock up Shved for big money and do whatever is possible not to lose Admundson..

Cue in the video of Shump and JR in a tub with Bron drinking champaign on their way to the Finals

There's no need to exaggerate. No one is talking about Shved for big money. Amundson is an end of the bench reserve. Why are you talking like these are the front line moves this summer when they're not? Phil is going to be looking to bring in starting quality talent to revamp this team. He's also going to bring back some guys who were part of the team already and showed they can be good role players for this team. This is a perfectly logical approach. There's literally nothing wrong with this idea.

god bless your optimistic outlook on everything. Probably not realistic but better than doom and gloom i guess

Call it optimism if you like but there's a lot of pragmatic stuff that's been put in place to ensure a better outcome next year. Nixluva has the correct context. Nobody is selling the idea that Amundson is a starter. He's a guy who hustles, is great in the locker room, and is a fan favorite when on the floor.

Shved (assuming he signs) will be an inexpensive rotation guard who has some very nice upside. Two years ago, he was unobtainable. He's been dusted off here ans like Amundson is a fan favorite.

The Knicks are that much stronger next year. These are building blocks.

The image of JR and Shump should also remind players that Phil does well by them when they're on their way out.

Im going out on a limb and betting that Phil didn't think he was giving Cleveland the needed pieces to a team to make it to the Finals..And why would he do that to a team in the same conference, a team that could be standing in our way going forward...

holfresh wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:But here we are discussing whether or not to lock up Shved for big money and do whatever is possible not to lose Admundson..

Cue in the video of Shump and JR in a tub with Bron drinking champaign on their way to the Finals

There's no need to exaggerate. No one is talking about Shved for big money. Amundson is an end of the bench reserve. Why are you talking like these are the front line moves this summer when they're not? Phil is going to be looking to bring in starting quality talent to revamp this team. He's also going to bring back some guys who were part of the team already and showed they can be good role players for this team. This is a perfectly logical approach. There's literally nothing wrong with this idea.

god bless your optimistic outlook on everything. Probably not realistic but better than doom and gloom i guess

Call it optimism if you like but there's a lot of pragmatic stuff that's been put in place to ensure a better outcome next year. Nixluva has the correct context. Nobody is selling the idea that Amundson is a starter. He's a guy who hustles, is great in the locker room, and is a fan favorite when on the floor.

Shved (assuming he signs) will be an inexpensive rotation guard who has some very nice upside. Two years ago, he was unobtainable. He's been dusted off here ans like Amundson is a fan favorite.

The Knicks are that much stronger next year. These are building blocks.

The image of JR and Shump should also remind players that Phil does well by them when they're on their way out.

Im going out on a limb and betting that Phil didn't think he was giving Cleveland the needed pieces to a team to make it to the Finals..And why would he do that to a team in the same conference, a team that could be standing in our way going forward...

He knew precisely what he was doing. He was interviewed and had hopeful remarks about JR throughout - knowing JR could be an explosive player when his game was on.

Shump was not getting resigned - every team knew that - only Lebron was smart enough to capitalize. They both had plenty of time to step up here.

Crickets.

fwk00 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:But here we are discussing whether or not to lock up Shved for big money and do whatever is possible not to lose Admundson..

Cue in the video of Shump and JR in a tub with Bron drinking champaign on their way to the Finals

There's no need to exaggerate. No one is talking about Shved for big money. Amundson is an end of the bench reserve. Why are you talking like these are the front line moves this summer when they're not? Phil is going to be looking to bring in starting quality talent to revamp this team. He's also going to bring back some guys who were part of the team already and showed they can be good role players for this team. This is a perfectly logical approach. There's literally nothing wrong with this idea.

god bless your optimistic outlook on everything. Probably not realistic but better than doom and gloom i guess

Call it optimism if you like but there's a lot of pragmatic stuff that's been put in place to ensure a better outcome next year. Nixluva has the correct context. Nobody is selling the idea that Amundson is a starter. He's a guy who hustles, is great in the locker room, and is a fan favorite when on the floor.

Shved (assuming he signs) will be an inexpensive rotation guard who has some very nice upside. Two years ago, he was unobtainable. He's been dusted off here ans like Amundson is a fan favorite.

The Knicks are that much stronger next year. These are building blocks.

The image of JR and Shump should also remind players that Phil does well by them when they're on their way out.

Im going out on a limb and betting that Phil didn't think he was giving Cleveland the needed pieces to a team to make it to the Finals..And why would he do that to a team in the same conference, a team that could be standing in our way going forward...

He knew precisely what he was doing. He was interviewed and had hopeful remarks about JR throughout - knowing JR could be an explosive player when his game was on.

Shump was not getting resigned - every team knew that - only Lebron was smart enough to capitalize. They both had plenty of time to step up here.

Crickets.

Well not resigning Shump, a superior defender on what could be termed a cheap deal, in a league where perimeter defense is paramount is a problem, isn't it...They both had time to step up here, well they are stepping up in Cleveland...Checks that stats, Shump is posting almost identical numbers in Cleveland as NY, it just wasn't appreciated because of all the losing...They are scapegoats..

knicks1248 wrote:
Any smart Pres would do his research before trading a player to a eastern conference opponent.

I want you to understand something, phil never had a true one on one (aside from exit interviews) with JR, shump, Amare the basic core of the roster, but how many has he had with with melo. From the beginning of the season he made most of the roster feel like they were not part of the future, especially JR and shump.

just imagine going to work and your boss is making you feel like your not really part of the future, he's on the fence with you, most people would start looking for another job, and their efforts become 50%.

If there is any one person that has the ability to get in a players head and elevate him to be unselfish, have high character, and be a hard worker, it's phil jackson. But he did none of that, and he relied on fisher to relay that message, and he just does not have the credentials, experience, or credibility to be taking seriously for any real length of time.

To make matters 100x worse, he doesn't have one single floor/locker room leader in sight.

Then give me this BS about these 2 guys weren't on board, or there not getting it fast enough, like losing wasn't the ultimate fckg goal anyway. It kills me when ppl try to validate the trade like it truly made an once of sense.

Then all i here is, WELL PHIL THOUGHT THIS, OR PHIL THOUGHT THAT, it really doesn't look like phil is thinking at all, he's reacting.

The team with the better leader will always be in the fianls, alllllwaaayyyys

Shump and JR were not coming back. What's to talk about?

they weren't gonna help with the next phase of the knicks... getting rid of the jr contract was huge... the cost was shump who's ok but it's not something to lose sleep over...

fwk00 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:But here we are discussing whether or not to lock up Shved for big money and do whatever is possible not to lose Admundson..

Cue in the video of Shump and JR in a tub with Bron drinking champaign on their way to the Finals

There's no need to exaggerate. No one is talking about Shved for big money. Amundson is an end of the bench reserve. Why are you talking like these are the front line moves this summer when they're not? Phil is going to be looking to bring in starting quality talent to revamp this team. He's also going to bring back some guys who were part of the team already and showed they can be good role players for this team. This is a perfectly logical approach. There's literally nothing wrong with this idea.

god bless your optimistic outlook on everything. Probably not realistic but better than doom and gloom i guess

Call it optimism if you like but there's a lot of pragmatic stuff that's been put in place to ensure a better outcome next year. Nixluva has the correct context. Nobody is selling the idea that Amundson is a starter. He's a guy who hustles, is great in the locker room, and is a fan favorite when on the floor.

Shved (assuming he signs) will be an inexpensive rotation guard who has some very nice upside. Two years ago, he was unobtainable. He's been dusted off here ans like Amundson is a fan favorite.

The Knicks are that much stronger next year. These are building blocks.

The image of JR and Shump should also remind players that Phil does well by them when they're on their way out.

Im going out on a limb and betting that Phil didn't think he was giving Cleveland the needed pieces to a team to make it to the Finals..And why would he do that to a team in the same conference, a team that could be standing in our way going forward...

Nobody's standing in our way. Phil knew exactly what he was doing.

Bullllllllshiiitttttt

FOR THE CAVS!!

fwk00 wrote:

mreinman wrote:phil is the GM of the year

FOR THE CAVS!!

You give now to get later. Good on Shump and JR. Good for the Cavs. Should be a great playoff.

later??

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

mreinman wrote:phil is the GM of the year

FOR THE CAVS!!

You give now to get later. Good on Shump and JR. Good for the Cavs. Should be a great playoff.

later??

I think he's saying the Knicks get a first rounder in the afterlife.

ah ... yes of course

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Really, we are competing now for Shved and Amundson??..I just want to cry..

I don't understand this attitude at all. Shved was a joy to watch and very effective. Amundson a lunch-pail, bring-home-the-bacon competitor And you guys think there's no place on the team for them?

They're talented, inexpensive, leave-it-on-the-floor BB players who loved playing here.

That's a problem?

Bro we won 17 games last year..These are 3rd string players at every stop they have made in their careers...Now we are trying to sell them as integral pieces??..Come on man..

Forget the 17 wins. That's not how you should be judging if a player has a role on this team. I thought the idea was to have Shved and and a guy like Amundson off the bench. Lou is not a big deal if they bring him back or not. He's just another vet who you know what you're getting if you have to have a reserve off the bench.

The point of this summer is to revamp the top of the rotation with starting quality players. That will push the role players further down the rotation where they belong. I think Shved could be a useful 6th or 7th man for this team. His game fits this offense. Still we won't be even talking about these guys until after Phil fills out the top of the rotation with quality players.

First of all..The money some estimated that Shved should get is money we weren't willing to pay Shump...We should not be shelling out money to end of the bench guys before we sort out guys in the starting lineup..We sort out the front line players then see how the back up fits not the other way around..Outside of Melo, they are all replaceable..

This is exactly what is gonna happen. Shved is a good player for this system but he's also gotta be brought back at the right price. I don't think it's a major issue. We all saw how much better the team was with Shved on the floor. He was the only one who actually understood how to excel in the Triangle as the big guard. He's not a scrub. He actually has talent but since he hadn't really gotten going in his 1st 2 years people wrote him off. Phil and his staff saw his skills as a good fit and they were right.

What everyone has to start understanding and respecting is that Phil and his staff really do know what they need to make this all work. They know what kind of skills players need to have. It's not a guessing game with no frame of reference. They have 20 years of data points to go by. This offense has clear roles and needs. Don't let the bad start to this process fool you like so many others. Phil does know what he's trying to accomplish. There's a blueprint to his teams that he has clearly in mind.

Imagine if you knew an offense inside and out and you knew all the roles clearly and what it takes in a player to make the most of that role?

U are frigging kidding me right??????????

http://bottlegate.com/2015/05/26/video-shump-jr-smith-kyrie-and-lebron-dance-in-the-cold-tub-after-sweeping-atlanta/

Let me ask you, WTF does one thing have to do with another? We gave those guys a shot to make it work here. They were free to grab the reigns and lead the team. We should change what we do for JR and Shump? F that! We don't have Lebron and we can't get him. Those guys winning has nothing to do with the Knicks building their own team. It's just BS to somehow make it seem like it really has any bearing on what the Knicks do this summer. The Cavs were on their own path and NY wasn't headed towards anything with those guys. Good for them that they made the finals. We weren't getting there with them, that's for sure.

I don't care what they do. I only care about this team and what we do. We have to build a team that can compete and a franchise that can build a winning culture for years to come. We don't have a Lebron and as you now he's a once in a generation player. They don't grow on trees. We've got to build up this franchise the right way. With players that give a damn and aren't reliant on the best player in the league to make everything easy for them.

U are blind dude..Whatever Phil does and says is gospel to u like MDA...It doesn't alarm you that everything he has done has backfired..Nope, not one iota..Onward..

Define 'everything'

Basically all this crying because he didn't get back a late 1st rounder for Tyson?

Because you think we should have kept Shump and JR? (and had $10mil less to spend and had a lower lottery pick). I don't even get what the Shump JR crying is about! You realise we traded them to a good team who everyone thought would make it to the finals, don't you? Do you think if we'd traded them to the Sixers they'd still be playing in the finals? JR had negative value at the time, Shump was injured- they have played exactly the same way since being traded, it's just everyone looks better when you are winning- it doesn't change the fact that they had no value and wouldn't have gained it on a losing team.

JR got suspended two games these playoffs- what do you think the reaction would have been on these boards and in the media if he'd done that here?

It didn't really matter what we got back for Tyson just make sure it wasnt a big contract because Tyson was expiring..So that didn't work according to plan..

I'm crying because of JR and Shump, I thought with bigger pieces ahead of them we can go far with Chandler and Amare expiring...Essentially much like Cleveland is doing...10 mil is a walk in the park for 2 talented players like that...So JR got suspended, I don't want JR to marry my daughter or come home with me after church, I just want him to ball..I don't get why folks are hung up with JR partying with Rihanna when every young player does it..JR got suspended, big deal..Not even a speed bump in our season..

JR got suspended off a dirty play by the other team and he reacted..But he shot them into the Finals, what do u think the reaction on these boards and the media would be?

The whole point is you couldn't have constructed the team with greater pieces with JR and Shump on the roster- that's a fact. That was the problem. They would have eaten up over $11mil of cap space AND got you a lower draft pick- I don't understand how you don't understand this.

Who do you think Phil can get at a better price?

Winslow is better than Shumpert- by trading JR and Shump, we lost a few more games, which in turn put us in a position to draft Winslow.

I agree, we might luck out in free agency, but unfortunately GMs aren't able to time travel- you have to put yourself in a position to maximize opportunities. It's a gamble. It's like when Walsh traded JJ and Jordan hill to clear up cap space for free agency. We then failed to land Lebron etc- doesn't mean he was an idiot to make that trade.

You know at the time, Phil said he sat on the JR and Shump trade for quite a while because he was concerned we weren't getting anything back (in fact I think it was Clyde who convinced him to pull the trigger)- the thing that made him do it when he did was his worry about them getting injured and then becoming untradeable again. Perfectly valid point- JR had a fascia tear (which can be a nightmare) and Shump had just dislocated his finger, then his shoulder- last year we held on to him until the deadline and he got injure, destroying the trades we had lined up). Again it was a risk- he doesn't get to time travel and see that they didn't get injured.