mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:Dude had 27 pts 11 boards and 6 asst..still didn't look like he was trying..

27 points on 23 shots is not really good.

he did make some very good passes.

still don't think they lost because of him though its easy to scapegoat him.

Reddick did not do much (offense or defense)
Crawford was bloody awful (on both ends)
austin rivers showed that he is a min player
matt barnes did zilch

right 13-23 isn't good but 7-20 is...thanks...Metrics told you shooting 57% isn't good huh...

I don't like 7 for 20 either. Harden did so many other things to make him extremely valuable even though his shot was off. THere was a reason that Ariza was wide open. Harden played a great game all around even though he had too many turnovers. He killed the clippers defense.

You really sound silly with this especially with you giving a pass for Melo who is not even remotely close. One day you will at least stand up and admit that its an illogical bias.

Harden missed a lot of shots and I would like to see him shoot better but the dude still finds away to be valuable and efficient enough even when he is off. His TS was 55.5 today. Griffins was 56.5 (which for Melo is a dream) but they needed a lot more from him.

@holfresh

stop making a fool of yourself and stating that I stated something when I stated the exact opposite.

I see that this is a habit with you and is quite childish or at the very least, blatantly lazy

Please dude...You are worshiping a methodology that had no clue how it worked...It values ft higher than fg and u didn't know and you still don't question it...Stop with the self righteous nonsense...

first, I accept your apologies for all the intentional misquotes ... don't worry about it.

Again I ask,

Harden had 31 points on 20 shots

Blake had 27 points on 23 shots

who had the higher TS?

let me make this simpler and give you the choices:

choice 1: [blinking]Blake[/blinking]
choice 2: Harden

why? check the math yourself ...

I have read many articles about the Free Throw valuations in TS, and while some may be valid and no stat is perfect, most accept it as the gold standard.

Why are u making an issue of their TS%..I know Blake was higher for yesterday's game...I don't know how it plays into the discussion..Point is TS% values ft at a higher rate and it shouldn't..Do you think it should value ft at a higher clip??..To me that flaw renders it worthless...

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:Dude had 27 pts 11 boards and 6 asst..still didn't look like he was trying..

27 points on 23 shots is not really good.

he did make some very good passes.

still don't think they lost because of him though its easy to scapegoat him.

Reddick did not do much (offense or defense)
Crawford was bloody awful (on both ends)
austin rivers showed that he is a min player
matt barnes did zilch

right 13-23 isn't good but 7-20 is...thanks...Metrics told you shooting 57% isn't good huh...

I don't like 7 for 20 either. Harden did so many other things to make him extremely valuable even though his shot was off. THere was a reason that Ariza was wide open. Harden played a great game all around even though he had too many turnovers. He killed the clippers defense.

You really sound silly with this especially with you giving a pass for Melo who is not even remotely close. One day you will at least stand up and admit that its an illogical bias.

Harden missed a lot of shots and I would like to see him shoot better but the dude still finds away to be valuable and efficient enough even when he is off. His TS was 55.5 today. Griffins was 56.5 (which for Melo is a dream) but they needed a lot more from him.

@holfresh

stop making a fool of yourself and stating that I stated something when I stated the exact opposite.

I see that this is a habit with you and is quite childish or at the very least, blatantly lazy

Please dude...You are worshiping a methodology that had no clue how it worked...It values ft higher than fg and u didn't know and you still don't question it...Stop with the self righteous nonsense...

No it doesn't. There are some instances where it will give too much value to FTs but others where it will give too little. This has been set up to even out. For example, a foul on a 2 pointer counts as only .88 rather than one possession. You're right this is helping the player's TS% more than a made FG. All other instances give too little value to FTs, though. A foul on a 3 pointer is actually taking up 1.32 possessions in the formula when it should be 1.0. A technical is taking up 0.44 in the formula when it should be 0. All of this is irrelevant in the long-run because it evens out unless you're dealing with a specific player who drastically out of proportion gets only one type of trip to the line like 2s but never fouls on 3s and never technicals. There are some instances where that might happen but not with Harden. Even when it does happen, there still are no better stats available (certainly not FG%).

Harden had a poor shooting night that was aided with good night at the ft line...That's what I generally look for when I'm looking at these numbers..I would much prefer to see the entire story told to me instead of one aggregate number that really doesn't inform you of what's really happening..And add to that, it's not really accurate..Over time it should be accurate..Ok spanky...

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:Dude had 27 pts 11 boards and 6 asst..still didn't look like he was trying..

27 points on 23 shots is not really good.

he did make some very good passes.

still don't think they lost because of him though its easy to scapegoat him.

Reddick did not do much (offense or defense)
Crawford was bloody awful (on both ends)
austin rivers showed that he is a min player
matt barnes did zilch

right 13-23 isn't good but 7-20 is...thanks...Metrics told you shooting 57% isn't good huh...

I don't like 7 for 20 either. Harden did so many other things to make him extremely valuable even though his shot was off. THere was a reason that Ariza was wide open. Harden played a great game all around even though he had too many turnovers. He killed the clippers defense.

You really sound silly with this especially with you giving a pass for Melo who is not even remotely close. One day you will at least stand up and admit that its an illogical bias.

Harden missed a lot of shots and I would like to see him shoot better but the dude still finds away to be valuable and efficient enough even when he is off. His TS was 55.5 today. Griffins was 56.5 (which for Melo is a dream) but they needed a lot more from him.

@holfresh

stop making a fool of yourself and stating that I stated something when I stated the exact opposite.

I see that this is a habit with you and is quite childish or at the very least, blatantly lazy

Please dude...You are worshiping a methodology that had no clue how it worked...It values ft higher than fg and u didn't know and you still don't question it...Stop with the self righteous nonsense...

No it doesn't. There are some instances where it will give too much value to FTs but others where it will give too little. This has been set up to even out. For example, a foul on a 2 pointer counts as only .88 rather than one possession. You're right this is helping the player's TS% more than a made FG. All other instances give too little value to FTs, though. A foul on a 3 pointer is actually taking up 1.32 possessions in the formula when it should be 1.0. A technical is taking up 0.44 in the formula when it should be 0. All of this is irrelevant in the long-run because it evens out unless you're dealing with a specific player who drastically out of proportion gets only one type of trip to the line like 2s but never fouls on 3s and never technicals. There are some instances where that might happen but not with Harden. Even when it does happen, there still are no better stats available (certainly not FG%).

Harden's true possessions last night was 29 not 28 as TS would have calculated based on their formula...He had no tech ft or three pt plays..

That's why I said long-run. There will be other times when the TS% stat slightly devalues his impact too.
I'll gladly support you if you argue the league should keep more precise stats on FT trips, though.