RonRon wrote:

callmened wrote:maybe green isnt mentioned much because i doubt the warriors will let him go anywhere

The above is talking about Danny Green, not Draymond Green
Briggs has said Danny Green and Draymond Green are role players that are products of the systems and talents of the team
However, it is the same for Carroll, who I do like, but Briggs is suggesting a near max for him at over 12m a year
With that said, a max for Draymond Green is just about 2m more, he never thought Draymond Green was worth such a contract, but believes Carroll is a steal, even at that price, while I disagree and I like Carroll but he is not a SG as Briggs suggests

duh NED! sorry about that...lol

"not aldridge, not gasol, or any other REAL LEGIT free agent...but carroll" (Iverson voice)

- it just illustrates to me that the knicks are the raiders of the NBA. a once proud franchise that real free agents laugh at (did anyone see udrih's quote after today's game. "theres no way gasol is going to nyc. he doesnt like drama")

- anyways as for carroll vs green = i think carroll is the better player. can impact a game more with his athleitic ability and defense. green is the better shooter but can be streaky at times. id prefer carroll but would settle for green. are we going to win the title because of either? no. lol

nixluva wrote:

callmened wrote:its funny (and maybe sad) that knicks fans are arguing/debating about role players like carroll or d.green

"not aldridge, not gasol, or any other REAL LEGIT free agent...but carroll" (Iverson voice)

- it just illustrates to me that the knicks are the raiders of the NBA. a once proud franchise that real free agents laugh at (did anyone see udrih's quote after today's game. "theres no way gasol is going to nyc. he doesnt like drama")

- anyways as for carroll vs green = i think carroll is the better player. can impact a game more with his athleitic ability and defense. green is the better shooter but can be streaky at times. id prefer carroll but would settle for green. are we going to win the title because of either? no. lol

WE are talking about different 2nd tier players but the Knicks still are open to better free agents. This is all just conjecture about possible targets. The team still has to see where they'll be in the draft. After that it will be clearer which FA the Knicks will target.

This is no indictment on the state of the franchise. If anything the franchise is going to be on the way back up!

BRIGGS wrote:Knicks fans might hate me because I would do almost anything to add draft picks and bypass this free agency. If I could make fair deals for Gerald Wallace( pick 16)and David Lee (pick 30) and a 2020 top 6 restriction-- sign Anjica and Schvyed to 4 year deals I would be happy.

im not sure anyone HATES you. thats a strong word. at least i hope not. you have youre opinions - youre just very forceful with them (i.e your way or the highway). that doesnt bother me, i just keep mental notes.

youre different from most posters because you know of obscure names playing in obscure places. i can appreciate learning about new players and sometimes they're eye openers. but i also know the game and many obscure players too. i only give opinions on players i know and see. i still appreciate the input though. i just believe that the knicks brass; in fact any nba team; knows alot more scouting about these players than we ever will.

callmened wrote:its funny (and maybe sad) that knicks fans are arguing/debating about role players like carroll or d.green

"not aldridge, not gasol, or any other REAL LEGIT free agent...but carroll" (Iverson voice)

- it just illustrates to me that the knicks are the raiders of the NBA. a once proud franchise that real free agents laugh at (did anyone see udrih's quote after today's game. "theres no way gasol is going to nyc. he doesnt like drama")

- anyways as for carroll vs green = i think carroll is the better player. can impact a game more with his athleitic ability and defense. green is the better shooter but can be streaky at times. id prefer carroll but would settle for green. are we going to win the title because of either? no. lol

I prefer Draymond Green because he is the better leader; which is one area that we MUST improve going forward

nixluva wrote:I'd like to remind everyone again of just what kind of production Danny Green has been giving. It's easy to just gloss over the facts and make decisions on pure passion. Among FA SG's only Jimmy Butler has better production. Danny from a defensive standpoint was even better than Butler! While I agree that it would be even better if Danny was more aggressive going to the basket, I don't think it's something to kill the guy over when he's doing so much else at a high level.

Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
1   Jimmy Butler  SG  25  CHI  65  2513  21.3  .583  .212  .508  5.1   11.2  8.2   14.4  2.3  1.0  7.7   21.6  8.2  3.0  11.2  .214    4.2
2   Danny Green	  SG  27  SAS  81  2312  16.5  .596  .619  .172  2.7   13.9  8.4   10.3  2.2  2.8  10.5  17.5  4.0  3.9  7.8   .163    4.1
3   W. Matthews	  SG  28  POR  60  2024  16.1  .586  .592  .193  2.1   9.5   5.9   10.8  1.9  0.4  9.0   19.8  4.0  2.2  6.2   .147    3.0
4   Alexey Shved  SG  26  TOT  42  767   19.5  .541  .415  .448  3.3   11.7  7.3   25.7  2.0  0.6  10.7  26.3  1.7  0.5  2.2   .135    0.5
5   Mar Belinelli SG  28  SAS  62  1388  12.4  .553  .489  .211  2.2   10.5  6.4   10.3  1.1  0.2  10.6  18.8  1.5  1.4  2.9   .100    0.5

By the time this team is good again Danny Green will have small NBA value.

While Carroll can guard 2's at time and on OFFENSE at times, it is also because they have multiple versatile talents on OFF and DEF, with HIGH IQ, unselfishness/ball movement/shooters/multiple post threats, and and system

Danny Green could play SG, SF, and even some PF the same way Caroll can, however, Carroll is closer to a SF and undersized PF

Briggs, I do not think posters here actually hate you, I surely do not, and even when I disagree with a lot of your opinions and how you come up with them, I enjoy reading and respect your thoughts
However, you tend to switch your opinons the past couple of years a lot more
For example, you have said that you believe we should draft OK4 or Towns nomatter what
Then you say we should sign Kanter no mater what
Then after that you say you are 90% positive that both Greg Monroe and WCS has been our plan all along that past 4 months
After that you come up with 10 possible trade scenarious that you believe will be better then keeping the pick
So which one is it really?

On the other post, I copy and pasted what another posters said, just so you understand it wasn't me, but I wanted to get rid of the troll

The way you come up with your own opinions, you use the same theories to justify why we should pick the players you want but at the same time, you disregard the same reasons/philospohy for another player you do not want

For example, you said Danny Green isn't a true SG, that he doesn't have the ability to play SG because he lacks speed, ability to penetrate, and you say that the reason why Danny Green is part of a system/players around him
However, Carroll is the same exact thing, but you would overpay for him, and claim he would be a steal, even when that deal would just be under 2m of a MAX contract that Drayond Green would receive who you think we are better off finding a cheaper options and developing our own
You contradict yourself and have said that he isn't worth that contract because we do not have Stephen Curry/Klay Thompson, etc
You have said since the beggining till now that Green isn't worthy of such a contract and you put him as a role player
But we do not have the same players/system for Carroll as well, you have said that you would give him a contract above 12m a year and say it would be a steal, which is just slightly less of what Draymond Green's salary would start at
This also goes for Kanter and Westbrook, the talent that OKC has, and the BIGS that OKC has but you disregard that
Opponents have to STOP WESTBROOK first and that is why Kanter is able to do what he does, because of Westbrook and the BIGS that can hide Kanter's weakness's

Phil Jackson is targetting players that FIT in to the system but you determine the value of players with STATS, placing too much emphasize on Boxscores without giving the other factors such as leadership and what the player is able to do elevate the team and what the team is able to do because of what the player brings to the system

Do not take it personal, we all have our own opinions, and do what you do, many of us enjoy reading it regardless

RonRon wrote:We need specifict talents to go with HIGH IQ players that are versatile on both OFF and DEFENSE

While Carroll can guard 2's at time and on OFFENSE at times, it is also because they have multiple versatile talents on OFF and DEF, with HIGH IQ, unselfishness/ball movement/shooters/multiple post threats, and and system

Danny Green could play SG, SF, and even some PF the same way Caroll can, however, Carroll is closer to a SF and undersized PF

Briggs, I do not think posters here actually hate you, I surely do not, and even when I disagree with a lot of your opinions and how you come up with them, I enjoy reading and respect your thoughts
However, you tend to switch your opinons the past couple of years a lot more
For example, you have said that you believe we should draft OK4 or Towns nomatter what
Then you say we should sign Kanter no mater what
Then after that you say you are 90% positive that both Greg Monroe and WCS has been our plan all along that past 4 months
After that you come up with 10 possible trade scenarious that you believe will be better then keeping the pick
So which one is it really?

On the other post, I copy and pasted what another posters said, just so you understand it wasn't me, but I wanted to get rid of the troll

The way you come up with your own opinions, you use the same theories to justify why we should pick the players you want but at the same time, you disregard the same reasons/philospohy for another player you do not want

For example, you said Danny Green isn't a true SG, that he doesn't have the ability to play SG because he lacks speed, ability to penetrate, and you say that the reason why Danny Green is part of a system/players around him
However, Carroll is the same exact thing, but you would overpay for him, and claim he would be a steal, even when that deal would just be under 2m of a MAX contract that Drayond Green would receive who you think we are better off finding a cheaper options and developing our own
You contradict yourself and have said that he isn't worth that contract because we do not have Stephen Curry/Klay Thompson, etc
You have said since the beggining till now that Green isn't worthy of such a contract and you put him as a role player
But we do not have the same players/system for Carroll as well, you have said that you would give him a contract above 12m a year and say it would be a steal, which is just slightly less of what Draymond Green's salary would start at
This also goes for Kanter and Westbrook, the talent that OKC has, and the BIGS that OKC has but you disregard that
Opponents have to STOP WESTBROOK first and that is why Kanter is able to do what he does, because of Westbrook and the BIGS that can hide Kanter's weakness's

Phil Jackson is targetting players that FIT in to the system but you determine the value of players with STATS, placing too much emphasize on Boxscores without giving the other factors such as leadership and what the player is able to do elevate the team and what the team is able to do because of what the player brings to the system

Do not take it personal, we all have our own opinions, and do what you do, many of us enjoy reading it regardless

No I dont mean personally I mean Id rather stay away from this years free agency. I wouldnt do it this way--I dont think the free agents are there to change this team and Id rather continue to do what I can to use my cap space to grab picks. The free agents who could help change arent coming here--the ones who cant will cost a lot and will have small effect. Ron--in the long term what is my % of being wrong? Some but not much. Im telling you or anyone else--Danny Green would be a waste of time money and effort. We need to find our own players and let them develop together.