smackeddog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:The thing about rebuilding from the ground up is having a fanbase to believe and support it....Philly's does at the moment. No way even if we had the assets could the Knicks do what Philly is doing again. The same way Philly traded Jrue, the Knicks would have to trade Melo.

Hinkie would have traded Melo, Tyson, THJ and Shump along time ago and he would have sold high and gotten a sh1t load of assets for them.

We wait until they are worth scraps or have dipped into negative value territory.

Trading Jrue and MCW early allows you to get high value for them when you believe that they may not be as good as they are worth.

Yea if Hinkie pulls it off, drafts some studs and signs a Harden type, there will be books written about him and how to successfully trade players in professional sports.

Hinkie is the kind of young stud GM I've been clamoring for Phil to hire. Not Steve Mills!
Hinkie knows how the current nba operates. He understands the current CBA

And if he drafts stinkers his legacy will suck. People just have blind faith in him, his actual record is not good.

you seem to just post things at times strictly out of emotion.

CrushAlot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:The thing about rebuilding from the ground up is having a fanbase to believe and support it....Philly's does at the moment. No way even if we had the assets could the Knicks do what Philly is doing again. The same way Philly traded Jrue, the Knicks would have to trade Melo.

Hinkie would have traded Melo, Tyson, THJ and Shump along time ago and he would have sold high and gotten a sh1t load of assets for them.

We wait until they are worth scraps or have dipped into negative value territory.

Trading Jrue and MCW early allows you to get high value for them when you believe that they may not be as good as they are worth.

Yea if Hinkie pulls it off, drafts some studs and signs a Harden type, there will be books written about him and how to successfully trade players in professional sports.

Hinkie is the kind of young stud GM I've been clamoring for Phil to hire. Not Steve Mills!
Hinkie knows how the current nba operates. He understands the current CBA

And if he drafts stinkers his legacy will suck. People just have blind faith in him, his actual record is not good.

Sixers fans I know don't have blind faith in him. They just stopped following and are in a holding pattern waiting for the next phase of team building to begin.

Correct. They actually have a lot of faith in him.

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:The thing about rebuilding from the ground up is having a fanbase to believe and support it....Philly's does at the moment. No way even if we had the assets could the Knicks do what Philly is doing again. The same way Philly traded Jrue, the Knicks would have to trade Melo.

Hinkie would have traded Melo, Tyson, THJ and Shump along time ago and he would have sold high and gotten a sh1t load of assets for them.

We wait until they are worth scraps or have dipped into negative value territory.

Trading Jrue and MCW early allows you to get high value for them when you believe that they may not be as good as they are worth.

He didnt get much for Hawes or turner. I don't remember the particulars of his other trades but I think if you compared either of those deals to Phil's Pablo trade you would say Phil did better. I do think he needed Granger's salary added to prevent the sixers from having to pay their players for being so far under the cap.

Of course he can't and didn't hit on every trade.

If you read about him and what he says and believes, you would see how he works. He believes that statistically, you will fail a lot or even most of the time. Therefore, you need to compile numerous chances so that you can afford the misses and possibly hit the big ones.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=49408

the post is to show that you have read about him?

I know you have and I respect your opinion too ...

I guess that I just believe in what he is doing more than you do.

gunsnewing wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:The thing about rebuilding from the ground up is having a fanbase to believe and support it....Philly's does at the moment. No way even if we had the assets could the Knicks do what Philly is doing again. The same way Philly traded Jrue, the Knicks would have to trade Melo.

Hinkie would have traded Melo, Tyson, THJ and Shump along time ago and he would have sold high and gotten a sh1t load of assets for them.

We wait until they are worth scraps or have dipped into negative value territory.

Trading Jrue and MCW early allows you to get high value for them when you believe that they may not be as good as they are worth.

Yea if Hinkie pulls it off, drafts some studs and signs a Harden type, there will be books written about him and how to successfully trade players in professional sports.

Hinkie is the kind of young stud GM I've been clamoring for Phil to hire. Not Steve Mills!
Hinkie knows how the current nba operates. He understands the current CBA

I would love if we hired someone who worked under either Morey or RC Buford.

VCoug wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:The thing about rebuilding from the ground up is having a fanbase to believe and support it....Philly's does at the moment. No way even if we had the assets could the Knicks do what Philly is doing again. The same way Philly traded Jrue, the Knicks would have to trade Melo.

Hinkie would have traded Melo, Tyson, THJ and Shump along time ago and he would have sold high and gotten a sh1t load of assets for them.

We wait until they are worth scraps or have dipped into negative value territory.

Trading Jrue and MCW early allows you to get high value for them when you believe that they may not be as good as they are worth.

Yea if Hinkie pulls it off, drafts some studs and signs a Harden type, there will be books written about him and how to successfully trade players in professional sports.

Hinkie is the kind of young stud GM I've been clamoring for Phil to hire. Not Steve Mills!
Hinkie knows how the current nba operates. He understands the current CBA

I would love if we hired someone who worked under either Morey or RC Buford.

yea and we didn't hire someone like that. We have Steve Mills therefore we are stuck with an injured broken down Melo for 5yrs @ $124mil

Those guys would have traded Melo a long time ago and got better assets back for Tyson and co

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:The thing about rebuilding from the ground up is having a fanbase to believe and support it....Philly's does at the moment. No way even if we had the assets could the Knicks do what Philly is doing again. The same way Philly traded Jrue, the Knicks would have to trade Melo.

Hinkie would have traded Melo, Tyson, THJ and Shump along time ago and he would have sold high and gotten a sh1t load of assets for them.

We wait until they are worth scraps or have dipped into negative value territory.

Trading Jrue and MCW early allows you to get high value for them when you believe that they may not be as good as they are worth.

Yea if Hinkie pulls it off, drafts some studs and signs a Harden type, there will be books written about him and how to successfully trade players in professional sports.

Hinkie is the kind of young stud GM I've been clamoring for Phil to hire. Not Steve Mills!
Hinkie knows how the current nba operates. He understands the current CBA

And if he drafts stinkers his legacy will suck. People just have blind faith in him, his actual record is not good.

you seem to just post things at times strictly out of emotion.

You seem to overestimate how objective and unemotional your posts are. Objectively Hinkie can't be judged because it's too early. Because ideologically he shares your viewpoint you are hopeful he will do great and prove you right. Objectively we won't know until we see who he drafts and how they turn out.

If he got hit by a bus tomorrow, how well did he position his successor?

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:The thing about rebuilding from the ground up is having a fanbase to believe and support it....Philly's does at the moment. No way even if we had the assets could the Knicks do what Philly is doing again. The same way Philly traded Jrue, the Knicks would have to trade Melo.

Hinkie would have traded Melo, Tyson, THJ and Shump along time ago and he would have sold high and gotten a sh1t load of assets for them.

We wait until they are worth scraps or have dipped into negative value territory.

Trading Jrue and MCW early allows you to get high value for them when you believe that they may not be as good as they are worth.

He didnt get much for Hawes or turner. I don't remember the particulars of his other trades but I think if you compared either of those deals to Phil's Pablo trade you would say Phil did better. I do think he needed Granger's salary added to prevent the sixers from having to pay their players for being so far under the cap.

Of course he can't and didn't hit on every trade.

If you read about him and what he says and believes, you would see how he works. He believes that statistically, you will fail a lot or even most of the time. Therefore, you need to compile numerous chances so that you can afford the misses and possibly hit the big ones.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=49408

the post is to show that you have read about him?

I know you have and I respect your opinion too ...

I guess that I just believe in what he is doing more than you do.

Nope. I posted that article back in February and you thanked me and said it was one of the most insightful articles you had read. I maybe misreading your posting style but at times it seems like you present yourself as having more knowledge on topics then others. If that is the case I think you might be misjudging a lot of knowledgeable posters.

No ... I don't believe that I have more knowledge than other posters. I actually think that you probably know more than I do.

However, I have my take and I believe that it's a non biased take. I think that there is a lot of illogical reasoning going on and that is often when and where I post.

I also believe that I follow advanced metrics and care about it more than most posters. This is probably why I follow Hinkie and what he is doing.

Its not always knowledge that is important, its judgement and interpretation as well as predicting and evaluating based on history, data and eye test.

I don't based my opinions on what others believe or go with the masses.

I also try to post based and facts and stats and probabilities, not fantasies and trade rape scenarios.

smackeddog wrote:

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Draft picks are fools gold- they eventually have to be turned into players, and those players can just as easily be Greg Odens, Thabeet and Shumperts. Just because a team has lots of picks, it doesn't mean they will become great players. Just because they have cap space, it doesn't mean they will land great players. 76ers have very little in real terms- Noels is looking promising, but that's just about it. They will struggle to sign any free agent, so they will be reliant on getting lucky with their picks. The drafted MCW, and then moved him because ehe sucks. They drafted Embiid and then had doubts due to his foot injury and work ethic.

They don't even have that many extra no 1 picks- the OKC one will likely be late 1st round, as will the Miami one. We drafted Tim Jr and Shumpert with late 1st's. Mavs drafted Larkin with the 18th.

You're not winning anything without usage of the draft and having superior talent evaluators. it's hardly fools gold. You can name examples all day but look at your champions....they all have top drafted players, mixed in with mid drafts and some gems.

Been arguing this with boneheads for 15yrs

I like having draft picks I hate trading them, I've said that we should never trade any ever again, but at the same time all they are are hope- we might draft a bust! You give yourself a chance, but judging a gm only on the number of picks they get is kind of lame- it's what they actually do with them that counts.

What they are are assets, and I dont think anyone is praising Hinkie just yet, even I posted earlier someone has to actually build the team. the point though is they arent fools gold, they are the foundation of any winning team.

Fools gold implies you can win without them which is not the case.

By fools gold I meant that people think just because a gm gets a draft pick they are great and have won the trade, where as I don't think you can judge the trade until you see the player picked

the trade should get judged based on the assets / picks received.

You can't play monday morning QB and after a player busts or tears an ACL call it a fail.

That goes both ways. As Hinkie says, you need to give yourself many many chances since many of them are failures and cannot be predicted.

Give yourself the best odds to succeed and you do that by stockpiling chances / assets.

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Draft picks are fools gold- they eventually have to be turned into players, and those players can just as easily be Greg Odens, Thabeet and Shumperts. Just because a team has lots of picks, it doesn't mean they will become great players. Just because they have cap space, it doesn't mean they will land great players. 76ers have very little in real terms- Noels is looking promising, but that's just about it. They will struggle to sign any free agent, so they will be reliant on getting lucky with their picks. The drafted MCW, and then moved him because ehe sucks. They drafted Embiid and then had doubts due to his foot injury and work ethic.

They don't even have that many extra no 1 picks- the OKC one will likely be late 1st round, as will the Miami one. We drafted Tim Jr and Shumpert with late 1st's. Mavs drafted Larkin with the 18th.

You're not winning anything without usage of the draft and having superior talent evaluators. it's hardly fools gold. You can name examples all day but look at your champions....they all have top drafted players, mixed in with mid drafts and some gems.

Been arguing this with boneheads for 15yrs

I like having draft picks I hate trading them, I've said that we should never trade any ever again, but at the same time all they are are hope- we might draft a bust! You give yourself a chance, but judging a gm only on the number of picks they get is kind of lame- it's what they actually do with them that counts.

What they are are assets, and I dont think anyone is praising Hinkie just yet, even I posted earlier someone has to actually build the team. the point though is they arent fools gold, they are the foundation of any winning team.

Fools gold implies you can win without them which is not the case.

By fools gold I meant that people think just because a gm gets a draft pick they are great and have won the trade, where as I don't think you can judge the trade until you see the player picked

the trade should get judged based on the assets / picks received.

You can't play monday morning QB and after a player busts or tears an ACL call it a fail.

That goes both ways. As Hinkie says, you need to give yourself many many chances since many of them are failures and cannot be predicted.

Give yourself the best odds to succeed and you do that by stockpiling chances / assets.

That's where we disagree- I just think that you need to see who he drafts before you can judge him, there's no point in having 100 picks if you draft 100 busts. It's not just about asset accumulation - eventually you have to use your pick and spend your money. He could be the next Kahn in terms of drafting accumin as far as we know!

Ok ... lets see.

Gonna take a real retard to miss on all those picks but one can hope

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Draft picks are fools gold- they eventually have to be turned into players, and those players can just as easily be Greg Odens, Thabeet and Shumperts. Just because a team has lots of picks, it doesn't mean they will become great players. Just because they have cap space, it doesn't mean they will land great players. 76ers have very little in real terms- Noels is looking promising, but that's just about it. They will struggle to sign any free agent, so they will be reliant on getting lucky with their picks. The drafted MCW, and then moved him because ehe sucks. They drafted Embiid and then had doubts due to his foot injury and work ethic.

They don't even have that many extra no 1 picks- the OKC one will likely be late 1st round, as will the Miami one. We drafted Tim Jr and Shumpert with late 1st's. Mavs drafted Larkin with the 18th.

You're not winning anything without usage of the draft and having superior talent evaluators. it's hardly fools gold. You can name examples all day but look at your champions....they all have top drafted players, mixed in with mid drafts and some gems.

Been arguing this with boneheads for 15yrs

I like having draft picks I hate trading them, I've said that we should never trade any ever again, but at the same time all they are are hope- we might draft a bust! You give yourself a chance, but judging a gm only on the number of picks they get is kind of lame- it's what they actually do with them that counts.

What they are are assets, and I dont think anyone is praising Hinkie just yet, even I posted earlier someone has to actually build the team. the point though is they arent fools gold, they are the foundation of any winning team.

Fools gold implies you can win without them which is not the case.

By fools gold I meant that people think just because a gm gets a draft pick they are great and have won the trade, where as I don't think you can judge the trade until you see the player picked

the trade should get judged based on the assets / picks received.

You can't play monday morning QB and after a player busts or tears an ACL call it a fail.

That goes both ways. As Hinkie says, you need to give yourself many many chances since many of them are failures and cannot be predicted.

Give yourself the best odds to succeed and you do that by stockpiling chances / assets.

That's where we disagree- I just think that you need to see who he drafts before you can judge him, there's no point in having 100 picks if you draft 100 busts. It's not just about asset accumulation - eventually you have to use your pick and spend your money. He could be the next Kahn in terms of drafting accumin as far as we know!

Ok ... lets see.

Gonna take a real retard to miss on all those picks but one can hope

Like I said, Kahn's record defied the odds!