mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Which is why I said you need to surround Melo with high efficiency metric players. Billups is certianly a great example

Another player comes to mind too!

Who's that?

JKidd

Don't know if you can quantify his impact on the 54 win team with metrics and stats. There's an example of metrics not being everything

he was the perfect metrics example ... he started the year and had a WS48 that was off the charts ... then, as he started stinking and his metrics sagged, so did the knicks ...

Fair enough. You saw how valuable his 48ws was early on unfortunaty it wasn't sustainable from a 49yr old

Owner James Dolan, in rehiring Steve Mills for a second stint with the team, told The Post’s Mike Vaccaro soon after the firing that Grunwald wasn’t well-versed in basketball’s new age of sabermetrics and technology, calling him “a classic GM.’’

Dolan didn’t mention Grunwald also has a law degree and formerly ran the Toronto Board of Trade.

“I think I’ve been one of the most involved in basketball’s advanced analytics since the late 1990s,’’ Grunwald told The Post via phone on the one-year anniversary of his dismissal. “I don’t agree with [Dolan]. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.’’

Many of those Grunwald hired have been kept around by new president Phil Jackson, but Dolan gave up on Mills as the Knicks’ leader in March. The bad karma of Dolan’s firing of Grunwald possibly spilled over into a miserable 37-45 season. Now Dolan is letting Jackson figure it out by himself. Grunwald never had the luxury.

Grunwald said. “What I’m very happy about is a lot of the front-office people [I hired], a lot of good people kept their jobs — Mike Smith, who is the analytics stats guy, who’s very good; [personnel director] John Gabriel; [director of basketball operations] Jamie Matthews. They’re all excellent at what they do. Phil always knew what it takes to win in the NBA and he’s got experienced people around him.’’

In addition Phil has Clarence Gaines Jr. who lobbied for Galloway and Mark Warkentien who is a metrics guy too. So the Knicks are all in on Metrics in terms of the staff Phil has around him bringing him the suggestions of who makes sense for this team. More importantly is how they apply this information to how they construct the team and how that player fits into how they want to play. It's got to be a comprehensive approach.

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks will be using Analytics in their search for players to fill out the Starting Lineup this summer. They have to use everything at their disposal in order to put together the best team they can with their limited resources. Finding players who are efficient on both ends but will be affordable is going to be huge for this team. They actually have a full staff of men who are Metrics guys. The problem with the Knicks over the years has been Dolan's interference. Even tho Dolan says now that he believes in Advanced Analytics it his interference that works against anything good that could come of it. Perhaps now the team's staff can do their job without his meddling.

Owner James Dolan, in rehiring Steve Mills for a second stint with the team, told The Post’s Mike Vaccaro soon after the firing that Grunwald wasn’t well-versed in basketball’s new age of sabermetrics and technology, calling him “a classic GM.’’

Dolan didn’t mention Grunwald also has a law degree and formerly ran the Toronto Board of Trade.

“I think I’ve been one of the most involved in basketball’s advanced analytics since the late 1990s,’’ Grunwald told The Post via phone on the one-year anniversary of his dismissal. “I don’t agree with [Dolan]. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.’’

Many of those Grunwald hired have been kept around by new president Phil Jackson, but Dolan gave up on Mills as the Knicks’ leader in March. The bad karma of Dolan’s firing of Grunwald possibly spilled over into a miserable 37-45 season. Now Dolan is letting Jackson figure it out by himself. Grunwald never had the luxury.

Grunwald said. “What I’m very happy about is a lot of the front-office people [I hired], a lot of good people kept their jobs — Mike Smith, who is the analytics stats guy, who’s very good; [personnel director] John Gabriel; [director of basketball operations] Jamie Matthews. They’re all excellent at what they do. Phil always knew what it takes to win in the NBA and he’s got experienced people around him.’’

In addition Phil has Clarence Gaines Jr. who lobbied for Galloway and Mark Warkentien who is a metrics guy too. So the Knicks are all in on Metrics in terms of the staff Phil has around him bringing him the suggestions of who makes sense for this team. More importantly is how they apply this information to how they construct the team and how that player fits into how they want to play. It's got to be a comprehensive approach.

54 wins under Grunwald to 10 wins with the new saber-metrics regime..Impressive..

gunsnewing wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks will be using Analytics in their search for players to fill out the Starting Lineup this summer. They have to use everything at their disposal in order to put together the best team they can with their limited resources. Finding players who are efficient on both ends but will be affordable is going to be huge for this team. They actually have a full staff of men who are Metrics guys. The problem with the Knicks over the years has been Dolan's interference. Even tho Dolan says now that he believes in Advanced Analytics it his interference that works against anything good that could come of it. Perhaps now the team's staff can do their job without his meddling.

Owner James Dolan, in rehiring Steve Mills for a second stint with the team, told The Post’s Mike Vaccaro soon after the firing that Grunwald wasn’t well-versed in basketball’s new age of sabermetrics and technology, calling him “a classic GM.’’

Dolan didn’t mention Grunwald also has a law degree and formerly ran the Toronto Board of Trade.

“I think I’ve been one of the most involved in basketball’s advanced analytics since the late 1990s,’’ Grunwald told The Post via phone on the one-year anniversary of his dismissal. “I don’t agree with [Dolan]. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.’’

Many of those Grunwald hired have been kept around by new president Phil Jackson, but Dolan gave up on Mills as the Knicks’ leader in March. The bad karma of Dolan’s firing of Grunwald possibly spilled over into a miserable 37-45 season. Now Dolan is letting Jackson figure it out by himself. Grunwald never had the luxury.

Grunwald said. “What I’m very happy about is a lot of the front-office people [I hired], a lot of good people kept their jobs — Mike Smith, who is the analytics stats guy, who’s very good; [personnel director] John Gabriel; [director of basketball operations] Jamie Matthews. They’re all excellent at what they do. Phil always knew what it takes to win in the NBA and he’s got experienced people around him.’’

In addition Phil has Clarence Gaines Jr. who lobbied for Galloway and Mark Warkentien who is a metrics guy too. So the Knicks are all in on Metrics in terms of the staff Phil has around him bringing him the suggestions of who makes sense for this team. More importantly is how they apply this information to how they construct the team and how that player fits into how they want to play. It's got to be a comprehensive approach.

I agree. I think the knicks will use analytics in building the roster but this thread was created to discredit analytics all together and defend Barkley of all people

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks will be using Analytics in their search for players to fill out the Starting Lineup this summer. They have to use everything at their disposal in order to put together the best team they can with their limited resources. Finding players who are efficient on both ends but will be affordable is going to be huge for this team. They actually have a full staff of men who are Metrics guys. The problem with the Knicks over the years has been Dolan's interference. Even tho Dolan says now that he believes in Advanced Analytics it his interference that works against anything good that could come of it. Perhaps now the team's staff can do their job without his meddling.

Owner James Dolan, in rehiring Steve Mills for a second stint with the team, told The Post’s Mike Vaccaro soon after the firing that Grunwald wasn’t well-versed in basketball’s new age of sabermetrics and technology, calling him “a classic GM.’’

Dolan didn’t mention Grunwald also has a law degree and formerly ran the Toronto Board of Trade.

“I think I’ve been one of the most involved in basketball’s advanced analytics since the late 1990s,’’ Grunwald told The Post via phone on the one-year anniversary of his dismissal. “I don’t agree with [Dolan]. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.’’

Many of those Grunwald hired have been kept around by new president Phil Jackson, but Dolan gave up on Mills as the Knicks’ leader in March. The bad karma of Dolan’s firing of Grunwald possibly spilled over into a miserable 37-45 season. Now Dolan is letting Jackson figure it out by himself. Grunwald never had the luxury.

Grunwald said. “What I’m very happy about is a lot of the front-office people [I hired], a lot of good people kept their jobs — Mike Smith, who is the analytics stats guy, who’s very good; [personnel director] John Gabriel; [director of basketball operations] Jamie Matthews. They’re all excellent at what they do. Phil always knew what it takes to win in the NBA and he’s got experienced people around him.’’

In addition Phil has Clarence Gaines Jr. who lobbied for Galloway and Mark Warkentien who is a metrics guy too. So the Knicks are all in on Metrics in terms of the staff Phil has around him bringing him the suggestions of who makes sense for this team. More importantly is how they apply this information to how they construct the team and how that player fits into how they want to play. It's got to be a comprehensive approach.

54 wins under Grunwald to 10 wins with the new saber-metrics regime..Impressive..

The current W/L record isn't how you should judge the prospects that they've brought in. Galloway is clearly a nice little find and can play in this system. To be fair they haven't actually finished building the team yet!!! This is the same false premise the media and some fans keep using to talk about this team. Everyone knew that the real team building was going to come from the Trade Deadline thru the summer and not the 1st half of this season.

They started with establishing the System and seeing who fits and then they cleared out some of the guys that didn't fit and that process will continue. It's the draft and Free Agency where they will really have a shot to get starting material for this team. It's a process and the more they continue to work at bringing in the right players that fit it should start to impact the W/L column. Right now the team is in need of starting talent but you have to give them a chance to actually shop first.

Woodson and Grunwald was quite successful with the roster they were given..They never got a chance to get "their players", yet they were successful..So now, I'm to believe we are on better footing because a system is in place and analytics will be used..54 to 10 isn't quite painting that picture..

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks will be using Analytics in their search for players to fill out the Starting Lineup this summer. They have to use everything at their disposal in order to put together the best team they can with their limited resources. Finding players who are efficient on both ends but will be affordable is going to be huge for this team. They actually have a full staff of men who are Metrics guys. The problem with the Knicks over the years has been Dolan's interference. Even tho Dolan says now that he believes in Advanced Analytics it his interference that works against anything good that could come of it. Perhaps now the team's staff can do their job without his meddling.

Owner James Dolan, in rehiring Steve Mills for a second stint with the team, told The Post’s Mike Vaccaro soon after the firing that Grunwald wasn’t well-versed in basketball’s new age of sabermetrics and technology, calling him “a classic GM.’’

Dolan didn’t mention Grunwald also has a law degree and formerly ran the Toronto Board of Trade.

“I think I’ve been one of the most involved in basketball’s advanced analytics since the late 1990s,’’ Grunwald told The Post via phone on the one-year anniversary of his dismissal. “I don’t agree with [Dolan]. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.’’

Many of those Grunwald hired have been kept around by new president Phil Jackson, but Dolan gave up on Mills as the Knicks’ leader in March. The bad karma of Dolan’s firing of Grunwald possibly spilled over into a miserable 37-45 season. Now Dolan is letting Jackson figure it out by himself. Grunwald never had the luxury.

Grunwald said. “What I’m very happy about is a lot of the front-office people [I hired], a lot of good people kept their jobs — Mike Smith, who is the analytics stats guy, who’s very good; [personnel director] John Gabriel; [director of basketball operations] Jamie Matthews. They’re all excellent at what they do. Phil always knew what it takes to win in the NBA and he’s got experienced people around him.’’

In addition Phil has Clarence Gaines Jr. who lobbied for Galloway and Mark Warkentien who is a metrics guy too. So the Knicks are all in on Metrics in terms of the staff Phil has around him bringing him the suggestions of who makes sense for this team. More importantly is how they apply this information to how they construct the team and how that player fits into how they want to play. It's got to be a comprehensive approach.

54 wins under Grunwald to 10 wins with the new saber-metrics regime..Impressive..

The current W/L record isn't how you should judge the prospects that they've brought in. Galloway is clearly a nice little find and can play in this system. To be fair they haven't actually finished building the team yet!!! This is the same false premise the media and some fans keep using to talk about this team. Everyone knew that the real team building was going to come from the Trade Deadline thru the summer and not the 1st half of this season.

They started with establishing the System and seeing who fits and then they cleared out some of the guys that didn't fit and that process will continue. It's the draft and Free Agency where they will really have a shot to get starting material for this team. It's a process and the more they continue to work at bringing in the right players that fit it should start to impact the W/L column. Right now the team is in need of starting talent but you have to give them a chance to actually shop first.

Woodson and Grunwald was quite successful with the roster they were given..They never got a chance to get "their players", yet they were successful..So now, I'm to believe we are on better footing because a system is in place and analytics will be used..54 to 10 isn't quite painting that picture..

Nixluva will always tell you the Knicks are in wonderful shape.
I don't think many people believe the Knicks now are currently using the metrics intelligently or that the current regime has shown good decision making.

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks will be using Analytics in their search for players to fill out the Starting Lineup this summer. They have to use everything at their disposal in order to put together the best team they can with their limited resources. Finding players who are efficient on both ends but will be affordable is going to be huge for this team. They actually have a full staff of men who are Metrics guys. The problem with the Knicks over the years has been Dolan's interference. Even tho Dolan says now that he believes in Advanced Analytics it his interference that works against anything good that could come of it. Perhaps now the team's staff can do their job without his meddling.

Owner James Dolan, in rehiring Steve Mills for a second stint with the team, told The Post’s Mike Vaccaro soon after the firing that Grunwald wasn’t well-versed in basketball’s new age of sabermetrics and technology, calling him “a classic GM.’’

Dolan didn’t mention Grunwald also has a law degree and formerly ran the Toronto Board of Trade.

“I think I’ve been one of the most involved in basketball’s advanced analytics since the late 1990s,’’ Grunwald told The Post via phone on the one-year anniversary of his dismissal. “I don’t agree with [Dolan]. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.’’

Many of those Grunwald hired have been kept around by new president Phil Jackson, but Dolan gave up on Mills as the Knicks’ leader in March. The bad karma of Dolan’s firing of Grunwald possibly spilled over into a miserable 37-45 season. Now Dolan is letting Jackson figure it out by himself. Grunwald never had the luxury.

Grunwald said. “What I’m very happy about is a lot of the front-office people [I hired], a lot of good people kept their jobs — Mike Smith, who is the analytics stats guy, who’s very good; [personnel director] John Gabriel; [director of basketball operations] Jamie Matthews. They’re all excellent at what they do. Phil always knew what it takes to win in the NBA and he’s got experienced people around him.’’

In addition Phil has Clarence Gaines Jr. who lobbied for Galloway and Mark Warkentien who is a metrics guy too. So the Knicks are all in on Metrics in terms of the staff Phil has around him bringing him the suggestions of who makes sense for this team. More importantly is how they apply this information to how they construct the team and how that player fits into how they want to play. It's got to be a comprehensive approach.

54 wins under Grunwald to 10 wins with the new saber-metrics regime..Impressive..

The current W/L record isn't how you should judge the prospects that they've brought in. Galloway is clearly a nice little find and can play in this system. To be fair they haven't actually finished building the team yet!!! This is the same false premise the media and some fans keep using to talk about this team. Everyone knew that the real team building was going to come from the Trade Deadline thru the summer and not the 1st half of this season.

They started with establishing the System and seeing who fits and then they cleared out some of the guys that didn't fit and that process will continue. It's the draft and Free Agency where they will really have a shot to get starting material for this team. It's a process and the more they continue to work at bringing in the right players that fit it should start to impact the W/L column. Right now the team is in need of starting talent but you have to give them a chance to actually shop first.

Woodson and Grunwald was quite successful with the roster they were given..They never got a chance to get "their players", yet they were successful..So now, I'm to believe we are on better footing because a system is in place and analytics will be used..54 to 10 isn't quite painting that picture..

Nixluva will always tell you the Knicks are in wonderful shape.
I don't think many people believe the Knicks now are currently using the metrics intelligently or that the current regime has shown good decision making.

So what am I to conclude since we were much more successful not using metrics..

The Knicks did use metrics when Grunwald was here. The Metrics guys have been here for a while now. JESUS I JUST POSTED THE INFORMATION ABOVE!!! Apparently you guys don't actually read what I post. You're too buys trying to come up with one liners. The problem was Dolan and not the people in the scouting and player personnel departments.

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks will be using Analytics in their search for players to fill out the Starting Lineup this summer. They have to use everything at their disposal in order to put together the best team they can with their limited resources. Finding players who are efficient on both ends but will be affordable is going to be huge for this team. They actually have a full staff of men who are Metrics guys. The problem with the Knicks over the years has been Dolan's interference. Even tho Dolan says now that he believes in Advanced Analytics it his interference that works against anything good that could come of it. Perhaps now the team's staff can do their job without his meddling.

Owner James Dolan, in rehiring Steve Mills for a second stint with the team, told The Post’s Mike Vaccaro soon after the firing that Grunwald wasn’t well-versed in basketball’s new age of sabermetrics and technology, calling him “a classic GM.’’

Dolan didn’t mention Grunwald also has a law degree and formerly ran the Toronto Board of Trade.

“I think I’ve been one of the most involved in basketball’s advanced analytics since the late 1990s,’’ Grunwald told The Post via phone on the one-year anniversary of his dismissal. “I don’t agree with [Dolan]. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.’’

Many of those Grunwald hired have been kept around by new president Phil Jackson, but Dolan gave up on Mills as the Knicks’ leader in March. The bad karma of Dolan’s firing of Grunwald possibly spilled over into a miserable 37-45 season. Now Dolan is letting Jackson figure it out by himself. Grunwald never had the luxury.

Grunwald said. “What I’m very happy about is a lot of the front-office people [I hired], a lot of good people kept their jobs — Mike Smith, who is the analytics stats guy, who’s very good; [personnel director] John Gabriel; [director of basketball operations] Jamie Matthews. They’re all excellent at what they do. Phil always knew what it takes to win in the NBA and he’s got experienced people around him.’’

In addition Phil has Clarence Gaines Jr. who lobbied for Galloway and Mark Warkentien who is a metrics guy too. So the Knicks are all in on Metrics in terms of the staff Phil has around him bringing him the suggestions of who makes sense for this team. More importantly is how they apply this information to how they construct the team and how that player fits into how they want to play. It's got to be a comprehensive approach.

I agree. I think the knicks will use analytics in building the roster but this thread was created to discredit analytics all together and defend Barkley of all people

So now that we used up almost half next year's cap space on Melo and Calderon, the other half will be based on the analytics? I guess half is better than nothing

I'm a sucker for punishment

holfresh wrote:The point that Barkley and others on the panel was making is that a team will get the best player available...You think the Knicks won't sign Love or Aldridge because of some metrics value??..Insane..

they would sign them because of metrics.

hopefully they stay away from the metric loser players like bargs.