Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

holfresh wrote:I don't think u add middle of the road guys who eats up cap space until u land a big name..All the guys mentioned above eats up cap space..Heck, I hope Phil is working getting rid of Calderon ASAP..Phil didn't come here to put a .500 team on the court..I think u stay nimble until u can put 2 to 3 big names together..I'm glad Howard Beck isn't our GM..

^ It's this kind of thinking that got the Knicks where they are right now ( in franchise hell)

The fruitless chase for LeBron James in 2010-2011, where the Knicks gouged themselves of assets

The signing of Amare Stoudamire, a "name" player, but one whose contract sank this team

The trade for Melo, another "name" player, but at the cost of gutting what was left of the team and assets after the above.

In theory, waiting for that "big name" is nice, but there aren't many big names that actually reach pure free agency. Those that do, clearly don't favor the Knicks.

Cap space is meant to be spent. The issue isn't spending cap space, it's spending it on players who don't offer at least a market based return on their cost. If you pay 10 million a year for a starting center who gives you production based on league wide current market value at about 10 million a year, that's not a bad contract. It's not a value contract, but it's not a bad contract.

The Knicks have, IMHO, arguably the least talented 15 man roster in the league right now. If you remove Philly ( who clearly are blowing up / have blown up their roster), most of the rest of the league's 2nd units would be starters on the Knicks today. Most of the Knicks now wouldn't make the 15 man rosters of most other teams. When you are that talent deficient, you must follow the "Beggars can't be choosers" doctrine.

Beck is just looking at this practically. The Knicks aren't going to get the top free agents that will hit the market this offseason. If Player X can get the same amount of money and/or more and go to a better situation for winning, he's not signing with the Knicks.

"Cap space" in a raw sense is not desirable. The Lakers had a massive amount of cap space this offseason. How did that work out for them? They ended up reupping Nick Young to hit the salary floor.

The desirable option, IMHO , is "cap flexibility"

No bad contracts.
Some rookies outperforming their rookie contracts
A nice balance of expirings and veteran bargain deals
At minimum, everyone is being paid to their market value production level.

I completely disagree...The problem wasn't chasing LeBron James and coming up empty..The problem was signing a big name coach that needed to land an Amare to win now...I am completely against signing middle of the road guys u can get through the draft...We can be a bad team and work through the draft while maintaining cap flexibility to put a few impact players together...Melo is an impact player..Ill go for him..Gallo, Chandler, Mozgov are middle of the road guys, I wont pay them until I have my pieces in place, They are expendable and won't take your team to the next level, See Denver, see Detroit, etc...Boston did it with impact players..The Lakers did it..Miami did it...

Make a run at Aldridge,Love,Leonard,Afflalo to play with Melo..Don't kill cap space with the Howard Eisley, Shannon Anderson, Clarance Witherspoons of the world..They too, were looking like great players on other teams...And if we don't land anyone,I'll keep my powder dry and try to move Melo next year if we don't get better...Keep drafting and cap space...

Making a run a big names isn't the problem..It's the 5 years 100 mil for a guy to run your pick and roll, with bad knees, is the problem...

wrong.

acquiring anthony put the team in win-now mode. prior to that there was still a plan in place to build and upgrade by position, the next position being point guard. why the urge to re-write history like this?

sensible people don't create a narrative and then make assertions to fit the narrative, assertions being a substitute for actual facts.

the mistake was made when dolan stepped in and melo forced his way here-- he admitted he forced his way here. that is a fact. it is also a fact that melo plays the same position and has many of the same weaknesses as stoudemire.

you don't amass talent if the talent doesn't fit. fact: melo and stoudemire do not play well together.

We traded for Melo when he was 26. While I agree the formula was win now, if you acquire a star player at age 26 which is the start of his prime you should have the ability to build around him. It was what followed that got us in the most trouble. That and having a third of the cap taken up by an amares contract without much production.

Who rebuilds around so-called established Underrated Superstars

So let me get this straight if we had acquired Lebron

We would have been in rebuild mode and expectation would be

To let 2-3yrs go by in patience before we're in contention

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:I don't think making a run at Thaddeous Young and Robin lopez was Phil's selling point to Melo last summer...

I think you do what you can to get him help like this while maintaining flexibility. You make sure you get back into the playoffs by adding some talent, then make sure to have the assets for a big move if needed. For example, put a team like what hid suggested on the floor, hope it mixed well, then you have the lottery selection to use for one last big move when needed. Instead of Thad young I would probably want tabias harris who will be a little more expensive but has better upside. Adding players like harris, lopez, and the lottery pick gets you younger, better, and still allows another big move when it comes up.

I don't think u add middle of the road guys who eats up cap space until u land a big name..All the guys mentioned above eats up cap space..Heck, I hope Phil is working getting rid of Calderon ASAP..Phil didn't come here to put a .500 team on the court..I think u stay nimble until u can put 2 to 3 big names together..I'm glad Howard Beck isn't our GM..

Harris and Lopez might be middle of the road when it comes to notoriety but there games are strong and rising. If the knicks managed to get them they would be players playing at a high level while still not being in their prime. Especially, Harris who is one of the younger FAs out there on the market. It will be hard to get either of those two guys though.

Yeah but what type of salary does Harris command while still not putting u over the top...Same with Lopez...Melo has what,a 3/4 year window...Those two will kill the cap and I can still see us playing .500 ball..Lopez isn't close to what Chandler was and u know he wants 8/10 mil...Harris another 10 mil??...I'm always wary of "good" players on bad teams...U just don't know the quantity..Sure it makes us better but these guys don't make u contend unless u have the main pieces in place and we don't..

My point is, even if we added these two pieces, u still need bigger pieces to contend..

To contend in the east no. Actually, Lopez is close to what Tyson was when he was 26. Who was Tyson before he went to Dallas? He was a journeymen partly because of his injuries but some because of his limited play but Tyson didn't start to beast until he hit his prim years. Also, like I mentioned earlier about the impact Lopez made with Aldridge and Portland. They struggled severely defensively before he got there. Lopez is also a better rim protector than Tyson and although he is not the greatest rebounder he rebounds it better than Gasol. Plus he is a smart player who can pass even though it does not show up in ast. I think those would come in this system.

Harris is a solid offensive player than can grow into a highly efficient player. I want a young FA that is not set in his ways and is willing to be groomed. The guy just keeps improving and even though he is not on a winning basketball team he is playing like a winner. You don't punish players on bad teams and also it is hard to get players on good teams (or bad) to come to a team that hasn't won. There are some things working in the Knicks favor with Tobias, like he is from New York, his shoe deal, and relationship with Melo. Now, those are just minor things but those are something plus NY might be willing to pay more than Orlando.

Stars are nice but sometimes teams have to create/find stars before they are stars. Also, look at what changed some of the teams in the east. Teams like Was, Tor, and ATL picked up quality players and surrounded their talent. Nene, Gortat, Millsap, Korver, and Lowry where not stars they were quality players.

I will say this though. The Knicks would need to add a dynamic guard too. He doesn't have to be the most efficient scorer but if he plays defense, rebounds, and pass the knicks could use someone to attack the basket. Reggie Jackson is a candidate if they can work out a S&T or even someone like Jeff Teague. I doubt Teague will be available if he keeps up his play and ATL makes some noise in the playoffs but if he/they don't and they want to pass Dennis the torch he would be a guy to go after. He is not exactly my cup of tea but he would do.

It's Aldridge and Liliard who makes Portland a contender, not Lopez...We keep making the mistake of spending whenever we have cap space on players that are non-impact players..We spent on Chandler after watching Dallas win, instead of being patient for a Chris Paul type who later became available...Adding young players are nice but at what salary which may end up handcuffing your move to the next level...

Wash, Tor, Atl aren't contenders..They are first/second round teams with limited cap space to add a player that takes them over the top...

quite the contrary ... we need more players like Lopez and less all in players.

Chandler was Lopez like, even better...

Lopez may be gettable but we're going to have to

Get him Chandler style as in overpay for his services

Not sure when overpaying if I want to overpay for Lopez

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

holfresh wrote:I don't think u add middle of the road guys who eats up cap space until u land a big name..All the guys mentioned above eats up cap space..Heck, I hope Phil is working getting rid of Calderon ASAP..Phil didn't come here to put a .500 team on the court..I think u stay nimble until u can put 2 to 3 big names together..I'm glad Howard Beck isn't our GM..

^ It's this kind of thinking that got the Knicks where they are right now ( in franchise hell)

The fruitless chase for LeBron James in 2010-2011, where the Knicks gouged themselves of assets

The signing of Amare Stoudamire, a "name" player, but one whose contract sank this team

The trade for Melo, another "name" player, but at the cost of gutting what was left of the team and assets after the above.

In theory, waiting for that "big name" is nice, but there aren't many big names that actually reach pure free agency. Those that do, clearly don't favor the Knicks.

Cap space is meant to be spent. The issue isn't spending cap space, it's spending it on players who don't offer at least a market based return on their cost. If you pay 10 million a year for a starting center who gives you production based on league wide current market value at about 10 million a year, that's not a bad contract. It's not a value contract, but it's not a bad contract.

The Knicks have, IMHO, arguably the least talented 15 man roster in the league right now. If you remove Philly ( who clearly are blowing up / have blown up their roster), most of the rest of the league's 2nd units would be starters on the Knicks today. Most of the Knicks now wouldn't make the 15 man rosters of most other teams. When you are that talent deficient, you must follow the "Beggars can't be choosers" doctrine.

Beck is just looking at this practically. The Knicks aren't going to get the top free agents that will hit the market this offseason. If Player X can get the same amount of money and/or more and go to a better situation for winning, he's not signing with the Knicks.

"Cap space" in a raw sense is not desirable. The Lakers had a massive amount of cap space this offseason. How did that work out for them? They ended up reupping Nick Young to hit the salary floor.

The desirable option, IMHO , is "cap flexibility"

No bad contracts.
Some rookies outperforming their rookie contracts
A nice balance of expirings and veteran bargain deals
At minimum, everyone is being paid to their market value production level.

I completely disagree...The problem wasn't chasing LeBron James and coming up empty..The problem was signing a big name coach that needed to land an Amare to win now...I am completely against signing middle of the road guys u can get through the draft...We can be a bad team and work through the draft while maintaining cap flexibility to put a few impact players together...Melo is an impact player..Ill go for him..Gallo, Chandler, Mozgov are middle of the road guys, I wont pay them until I have my pieces in place, They are expendable and won't take your team to the next level, See Denver, see Detroit, etc...Boston did it with impact players..The Lakers did it..Miami did it...

Make a run at Aldridge,Love,Leonard,Afflalo to play with Melo..Don't kill cap space with the Howard Eisley, Shannon Anderson, Clarance Witherspoons of the world..They too, were looking like great players on other teams...And if we don't land anyone,I'll keep my powder dry and try to move Melo next year if we don't get better...Keep drafting and cap space...

Making a run a big names isn't the problem..It's the 5 years 100 mil for a guy to run your pick and roll, with bad knees, is the problem...

wrong.

acquiring anthony put the team in win-now mode. prior to that there was still a plan in place to build and upgrade by position, the next position being point guard. why the urge to re-write history like this?

sensible people don't create a narrative and then make assertions to fit the narrative, assertions being a substitute for actual facts.

the mistake was made when dolan stepped in and melo forced his way here-- he admitted he forced his way here. that is a fact. it is also a fact that melo plays the same position and has many of the same weaknesses as stoudemire.

you don't amass talent if the talent doesn't fit. fact: melo and stoudemire do not play well together.

We traded for Melo when he was 26. While I agree the formula was win now, if you acquire a star player at age 26 which is the start of his prime you should have the ability to build around him. It was what followed that got us in the most trouble. That and having a third of the cap taken up by an amares contract without much production.

Problem is the Knicks lacked any type of long term vision. They could have easily let one season play out with Amare, Melo, Billups. Let Billups walk or resign him for cheap deal as a veteran presence. See if Amare could stay healthy and play with Melo or Amnesty him.

We had flexibility to build back assets we lost. Shumpert was drafted in the 2011 draft. Harris Jackson Faries Butler Parsons were all in that draft and are all comparable to the Gallos and Wilson's we gave up. Fields could have netted us a late first round that offseason which if we hit on a Shump and Jackson or Harris or Butler or Parsons.... If we let Billups walk and amnestied Amare. We would have cap space to sign guys or used it to take on expiring unwanted deals for assets which could pay off 2 yrs later. Basically giving ourselves opportunity to build a deep team that would be a contender today. This would be possible if the Knicks actually held a long term vision and cared about developing a pipeline for long term success.

Knicks instead cut off all avenues for future progress rather then taking a step back after the Melo trade to asses a 5-10 yr plan.

holfresh wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

holfresh wrote:Make a run at Aldridge,Love,Leonard,Afflalo to play with Melo..Don't kill cap space with the Howard Eisley, Shannon Anderson, Clarance Witherspoons of the world..

The Knicks have close to zero chance at getting

LaMarcus Aldridge
Kevin Love
Kawhi Leonard

I don't know how Aaron Affalo got into the list with those other names, but he's clearly in sharp decline and not within the tier of the players above.

Please, pray tell, tell the rest of us how the Knicks are going to get a Kevin Love or a LaMarcus Aldridge.

The Knicks have no real assets to trade for them. ( Boston tried desperately to trade for Love, and they have 10 times the number of assets that the Knicks do right now, and still couldn't get him ) They can't offer the most money since they don't have those players Bird Rights. They can't even offer a better winning situation right now.

Kevin Love is going to leave a team that can pay him more, give him a longer deal, cease to play with the best NBA player in the universe to get paid less to lose with the Knicks and play a redundant position to Melo? ( Power Forward, jumpshooter, no defense)

I'm not sure how Tobias Harris and/or Robin Lopez measure anywhere near a Howard Eisley situation.

There is what the Knicks WANT, and then there is what the Knicks can practically GET. You want Kevin Love, you aren't going to get Kevin Love in a Knicks uniform. Do you just want to wait and spend on no one until you think you can get a Kevin Love type player? ( The teams in the league are mandated to hit a salary floor, you just can't carve out cap space and not spend it at all)

You want players the Knicks are just aren't going to get. Do you think the Knicks are really going to get Kawhi Leonard? That he will leave a contender and a rock solid franchise with a HOF coach and strong front office and offers stability and a system in place to lose 50-60 games a year as a Knick while getting paid less?

Then, when the Knicks can't get those players, the only thing left is to look at making the best of the situation, where you will END UP WHERE HOWARD BECK STARTED OFF ANYWAY. That means looking at guys like a Robin Lopez. It's not what you WANT, but it's what you are going to GET.

But again, please pray tell, tell the rest of us how exactly the Knicks can offer a guy like Kevin Love and/or LMA and/or Kawhi Leonard a better situation in free agency or how the Knicks might acquire them in a trade and still keep Melo and still have enough left over to build a roster around them. ( Because even if you could get a Love and/or LMA and/or Leonard, none of them can defend the rim, you'd still need to acquire a pivot, you know someone like.... ROBIN LOPEZ )

First of all, I would never say the Knicks have zero chance to get anyone with Melo on the roster and with ample cap space...If all the rumors were to be believed, Chris Paul wanted to play here with Melo...Noah and DHow wanted Melo to play with them...In hindsight, we screwed up by picking up Billups' option and signing Chandler...Had we done nothing and waited, like what I'm currently suggesting, we had the option to later Amnesty Amare..Ample space for Chris Paul...

So we sign Lopez for 10 mil per and hope get develops into the guy we just ran out of town??..

If I'm Phil, I'll be trying to deal Calderon starting Monday...Hopefully JR walks and don't resign Shump...So you are telling me that Love, Aldrige, Leonard, Afflalo (2 of the 4)won't listen to Phil about playing next to Melo in that scenario??..I don't know, it's worth a try...Gotta say I have been watching Love the last month with Cleveland and I'm not as high on him as I was in previous years of not seeing him play night in and out...

But I would try a run at those those and won't settle for the overpriced free agents hoping they turn into something...

Layden was the master of stocking the roster with middle of the road guys to maintain a .500 record..I've seen it..No interest...

Let's repeat what TT said

We have zero chance to get

LaMarcus Aldridge
Kevin Love
Kawhai Leonard

If you want to move on to other names sure go for it

But the above statement is actual facts, we have NO SHOT

And for those of you thinking Melo is a selling point

To attract free agents, logoff this site immediately and admit yourself into a mental clinic

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

holfresh wrote:I don't think u add middle of the road guys who eats up cap space until u land a big name..All the guys mentioned above eats up cap space..Heck, I hope Phil is working getting rid of Calderon ASAP..Phil didn't come here to put a .500 team on the court..I think u stay nimble until u can put 2 to 3 big names together..I'm glad Howard Beck isn't our GM..

^ It's this kind of thinking that got the Knicks where they are right now ( in franchise hell)

The fruitless chase for LeBron James in 2010-2011, where the Knicks gouged themselves of assets

The signing of Amare Stoudamire, a "name" player, but one whose contract sank this team

The trade for Melo, another "name" player, but at the cost of gutting what was left of the team and assets after the above.

In theory, waiting for that "big name" is nice, but there aren't many big names that actually reach pure free agency. Those that do, clearly don't favor the Knicks.

Cap space is meant to be spent. The issue isn't spending cap space, it's spending it on players who don't offer at least a market based return on their cost. If you pay 10 million a year for a starting center who gives you production based on league wide current market value at about 10 million a year, that's not a bad contract. It's not a value contract, but it's not a bad contract.

The Knicks have, IMHO, arguably the least talented 15 man roster in the league right now. If you remove Philly ( who clearly are blowing up / have blown up their roster), most of the rest of the league's 2nd units would be starters on the Knicks today. Most of the Knicks now wouldn't make the 15 man rosters of most other teams. When you are that talent deficient, you must follow the "Beggars can't be choosers" doctrine.

Beck is just looking at this practically. The Knicks aren't going to get the top free agents that will hit the market this offseason. If Player X can get the same amount of money and/or more and go to a better situation for winning, he's not signing with the Knicks.

"Cap space" in a raw sense is not desirable. The Lakers had a massive amount of cap space this offseason. How did that work out for them? They ended up reupping Nick Young to hit the salary floor.

The desirable option, IMHO , is "cap flexibility"

No bad contracts.
Some rookies outperforming their rookie contracts
A nice balance of expirings and veteran bargain deals
At minimum, everyone is being paid to their market value production level.

I completely disagree...The problem wasn't chasing LeBron James and coming up empty..The problem was signing a big name coach that needed to land an Amare to win now...I am completely against signing middle of the road guys u can get through the draft...We can be a bad team and work through the draft while maintaining cap flexibility to put a few impact players together...Melo is an impact player..Ill go for him..Gallo, Chandler, Mozgov are middle of the road guys, I wont pay them until I have my pieces in place, They are expendable and won't take your team to the next level, See Denver, see Detroit, etc...Boston did it with impact players..The Lakers did it..Miami did it...

Make a run at Aldridge,Love,Leonard,Afflalo to play with Melo..Don't kill cap space with the Howard Eisley, Shannon Anderson, Clarance Witherspoons of the world..They too, were looking like great players on other teams...And if we don't land anyone,I'll keep my powder dry and try to move Melo next year if we don't get better...Keep drafting and cap space...

Making a run a big names isn't the problem..It's the 5 years 100 mil for a guy to run your pick and roll, with bad knees, is the problem...

the problem is that when you have d'antoni as coach you need a orchestrator to make it work, and the notion was that lebron would be that type of orchestrator/facilitator, just in his way as contrasted with nash's way.

when the knicks were duped by lebron and his collusion the plan should have been to stand pat if there was no worthy orchestrator to acquire, but dolan's mandate has always been to acquire "names" at the expense of common sense based on a plan. this has always been dolan's way, commerce trumping winning.

so stoudemire became that name.

the next big move should have been to upgrade the point guard position over what we had. walsh decided to acquire felton but gave him a cheap contract that was only two years long: this was a stopgap player and that's all he was ever meant to be.

remember commerce trumping winning?

enter melo. he and dolan were absolutely twin sons of different mothers, possessing the same weird values.

dk u just got to be big enough to admit you were wrong..I admitted I was wrong with Isiah...MDA and Donny did a bad job...Donny wanted to bring in DWill instead of Melo..
We would have been done for a decade with Amare and DWill contracts...

deron williams? he wasn't even on walsh's radar, remember? he had no idea williams was available. deron williams was never an option.

walsh wanted autonomy and was granted it during the two years he required to clean up isiah's mess. you may not like how he went about it and that's just fine. but then you also you make it sound like he cleaned house of terrible contracts and cleared cap space to merely enter the lebron sweepstakes with no other plan in place. are you kidding me?

no, walsh and d'antoni had a plan in place-- implement a system and fit players to that system. sounds familiar, doesn't it? you may not like that approach but no need to throw them under the bus just because they do things different from you. how convenient for you that they never got the chance to complete what they started.

meanwhile by contrast you have made your value system apparent from day 1: acquire talent no matter what and then put the onus on the coach to make that talent work well together. you can get away with that sometimes during the regular season but eventually it gets exposed, especially with players like stoudemire and anthony who are not only utterly redundant, but are also one-way players whose ability to mesh with others is among the worst we have ever seen.

and right now? will phil be able to overcome the dolan-esque mistake of overpaying the self-proclaimed underrated superstar who admitted he kind of forced his way here? will fisher be given time to work with a team that actually has players that he wants and the system requires?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/knicks-president-donnie-walsh-kicks-not-thinking-acquire-deron-williams-article-1.135109

Modern Day basketball history just isn't some posters strength

Although the things Walsh and D'antoni did, led to their early exodus

Which could very well be the case for Phil if he's not careful

Re-signing Melo to $125mil no trade clause opt out after 4yrs and %15 trade kicker paid by the team

Is reason alone to fire him not now but right now

gunsnewing wrote:Dantoni gave Grunwald the ultimatum to either trade Melo for Deron or he would resign. He then resigned/fired

I think his request reached as far as Dolan

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:Deron was never in the mix. He might have been had melo gone to Jersey, but thats just now how the Lament/Blame game is played.
there are rules. one of which is to not make shyt up. Usually have at least "rumor" to fall back on! Then build off of that!

You know, as if you have a portal into their brains!

Donny said after, if he knew DWill was available, he would have went after him..At that point, Donny was out of the decision making role because Dolan was pursuing Melo..Donny and MDA didn't want Melo and wouldn't have dealt for him...If they were calling the shots, they would have certainly known DWill was available...

The Nets wanted to do a deal with the Nuggets for Anthony, too, and settled for the trade with the Jazz for Williams as a consolation prize. Only Donnie Walsh, the executive who acquired Anthony at James Dolan's urging, later beat himself up for not knowing Williams was on the market -- and for good reason.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/11838282/is-deron-williams-better-carmelo-anthony-was

MDA wanted to trade Melo for DWill after the fact and Dolan said no...

That's a reach if you judge the season in whole

So you're suggesting Dolan took over the team in February

While I agree Dolan stepped in to assure Melo arrived here

Walsh was shot calling all the way up to this point

He simply didn't do his job as well as he should have

SEASON 2010-11
March 1 2011
Signed forwards Jared Jeffries and Derrick Brown and waived forward Corey Brewer.
February 28 2011
Waived guard Kelenna Azubuike.
February 22 2011
Traded guard Raymond Felton, forwards Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler, center Timofey Mozgov, a future first-round pick, two future second-round picks, the right to exchange 2016 first-round picks and cash to the Denver Nuggets for forward Carmelo Anthony, guards Chauncey Billups and Anthony Carter, forward Renaldo Balkman and center Shelden Williams, then traded forward Anthony Randolph, center Eddy Curry and cash to the Minnesota Timberwolves for forward Corey Brewer.
February 5 2011
Named Mark Warkentien director of pro player personnel.
October 24 2010
Exercised the contract options on guard Toney Douglas and forwards Danilo Gallinari and Anthony Randolph and waived forward Patrick Ewing Jr.
September 23 2010
Signed forward Shawne Williams.
August 27 2010
Signed guard Patrick Ewing Jr.
August 26 2010
Signed forward Landry Fields.
August 12 2010
Signed guard Andy Rautins.
August 10 2010
Signed guard Roger Mason.
August 6 2010
Named Isiah Thomas consultant.
July 13 2010
Signed center Timofey Mozgov.
July 10 2010
Signed guard Raymond Felton.
July 9 2010
Signed David Lee and traded him to the Golden State Warriors for guard Kelenna Azubuike, forwards Anthony Randolph and Ronny Turiaf and a 2010 second-round pick.
July 8 2010
Traded a trade exception and another consideration to the Phoenix Suns for forward Amare Stoudemire; traded cash to the Milwaukee Bucks for the draft rights to center Jerome Jordan.
Draft 2010
Selected guard Andy Rautins (38th overall pick) and forward Landry Fields (39th overall pick).

Billy King I believe played Walsh and Dolan

Driving the price for Melo up when they caught wind he didn't want to go there

Meanwhile he was backdooring working on a trade for D-Will

Not that it proved to be any remarkable payoff but masterful job of misdirection

F500ONE wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:Deron was never in the mix. He might have been had melo gone to Jersey, but thats just now how the Lament/Blame game is played.
there are rules. one of which is to not make shyt up. Usually have at least "rumor" to fall back on! Then build off of that!

You know, as if you have a portal into their brains!

Donny said after, if he knew DWill was available, he would have went after him..At that point, Donny was out of the decision making role because Dolan was pursuing Melo..Donny and MDA didn't want Melo and wouldn't have dealt for him...If they were calling the shots, they would have certainly known DWill was available...

The Nets wanted to do a deal with the Nuggets for Anthony, too, and settled for the trade with the Jazz for Williams as a consolation prize. Only Donnie Walsh, the executive who acquired Anthony at James Dolan's urging, later beat himself up for not knowing Williams was on the market -- and for good reason.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/11838282/is-deron-williams-better-carmelo-anthony-was

MDA wanted to trade Melo for DWill after the fact and Dolan said no...

That's a reach if you judge the season in whole

So you're suggesting Dolan took over the team in February

While I agree Dolan stepped in to assure Melo arrived here

Walsh was shot calling all the way up to this point

He simply didn't do his job as well as he should have

SEASON 2010-11
March 1 2011
Signed forwards Jared Jeffries and Derrick Brown and waived forward Corey Brewer.
February 28 2011
Waived guard Kelenna Azubuike.
February 22 2011
Traded guard Raymond Felton, forwards Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler, center Timofey Mozgov, a future first-round pick, two future second-round picks, the right to exchange 2016 first-round picks and cash to the Denver Nuggets for forward Carmelo Anthony, guards Chauncey Billups and Anthony Carter, forward Renaldo Balkman and center Shelden Williams, then traded forward Anthony Randolph, center Eddy Curry and cash to the Minnesota Timberwolves for forward Corey Brewer.
February 5 2011
Named Mark Warkentien director of pro player personnel.
October 24 2010
Exercised the contract options on guard Toney Douglas and forwards Danilo Gallinari and Anthony Randolph and waived forward Patrick Ewing Jr.
September 23 2010
Signed forward Shawne Williams.
August 27 2010
Signed guard Patrick Ewing Jr.
August 26 2010
Signed forward Landry Fields.
August 12 2010
Signed guard Andy Rautins.
August 10 2010
Signed guard Roger Mason.
August 6 2010
Named Isiah Thomas consultant.
July 13 2010
Signed center Timofey Mozgov.
July 10 2010
Signed guard Raymond Felton.
July 9 2010
Signed David Lee and traded him to the Golden State Warriors for guard Kelenna Azubuike, forwards Anthony Randolph and Ronny Turiaf and a 2010 second-round pick.
July 8 2010
Traded a trade exception and another consideration to the Phoenix Suns for forward Amare Stoudemire; traded cash to the Milwaukee Bucks for the draft rights to center Jerome Jordan.
Draft 2010
Selected guard Andy Rautins (38th overall pick) and forward Landry Fields (39th overall pick).

Billy King I believe played Walsh and Dolan

Driving the price for Melo up when they caught wind he didn't want to go there

Meanwhile he was backdooring working on a trade for D-Will

Not that it proved to be any remarkable payoff but masterful job of misdirection

Nope, I remember quite clearly at the time, Utah said they were waiting in the wings for Knicks and Nets to finishing driving up the price for Melo, and then planned to approach the loser and propose the same deal for DWill, which they did.

holfresh wrote:Just to clarify gents..I said Donny "wanted" DWill instead of Melo ...I didn't say he was trying to trade for DWIll..It was an after the fact statement..Donny let it be know he would have prefered DWill over Melo had he known DWill was available..I should have made that a tad more clearer...

well it would likely have been a bad trade as well since williams's game started going downhill prior to 2011. that said, if players like duhon and felton can be made more effective under d'antoni, surely williams could have experienced something of a renaissance.

smackeddog wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:Deron was never in the mix. He might have been had melo gone to Jersey, but thats just now how the Lament/Blame game is played.
there are rules. one of which is to not make shyt up. Usually have at least "rumor" to fall back on! Then build off of that!

You know, as if you have a portal into their brains!

Donny said after, if he knew DWill was available, he would have went after him..At that point, Donny was out of the decision making role because Dolan was pursuing Melo..Donny and MDA didn't want Melo and wouldn't have dealt for him...If they were calling the shots, they would have certainly known DWill was available...

The Nets wanted to do a deal with the Nuggets for Anthony, too, and settled for the trade with the Jazz for Williams as a consolation prize. Only Donnie Walsh, the executive who acquired Anthony at James Dolan's urging, later beat himself up for not knowing Williams was on the market -- and for good reason.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/11838282/is-deron-williams-better-carmelo-anthony-was

MDA wanted to trade Melo for DWill after the fact and Dolan said no...

That's a reach if you judge the season in whole

So you're suggesting Dolan took over the team in February

While I agree Dolan stepped in to assure Melo arrived here

Walsh was shot calling all the way up to this point

He simply didn't do his job as well as he should have

SEASON 2010-11
March 1 2011
Signed forwards Jared Jeffries and Derrick Brown and waived forward Corey Brewer.
February 28 2011
Waived guard Kelenna Azubuike.
February 22 2011
Traded guard Raymond Felton, forwards Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler, center Timofey Mozgov, a future first-round pick, two future second-round picks, the right to exchange 2016 first-round picks and cash to the Denver Nuggets for forward Carmelo Anthony, guards Chauncey Billups and Anthony Carter, forward Renaldo Balkman and center Shelden Williams, then traded forward Anthony Randolph, center Eddy Curry and cash to the Minnesota Timberwolves for forward Corey Brewer.
February 5 2011
Named Mark Warkentien director of pro player personnel.
October 24 2010
Exercised the contract options on guard Toney Douglas and forwards Danilo Gallinari and Anthony Randolph and waived forward Patrick Ewing Jr.
September 23 2010
Signed forward Shawne Williams.
August 27 2010
Signed guard Patrick Ewing Jr.
August 26 2010
Signed forward Landry Fields.
August 12 2010
Signed guard Andy Rautins.
August 10 2010
Signed guard Roger Mason.
August 6 2010
Named Isiah Thomas consultant.
July 13 2010
Signed center Timofey Mozgov.
July 10 2010
Signed guard Raymond Felton.
July 9 2010
Signed David Lee and traded him to the Golden State Warriors for guard Kelenna Azubuike, forwards Anthony Randolph and Ronny Turiaf and a 2010 second-round pick.
July 8 2010
Traded a trade exception and another consideration to the Phoenix Suns for forward Amare Stoudemire; traded cash to the Milwaukee Bucks for the draft rights to center Jerome Jordan.
Draft 2010
Selected guard Andy Rautins (38th overall pick) and forward Landry Fields (39th overall pick).

Billy King I believe played Walsh and Dolan

Driving the price for Melo up when they caught wind he didn't want to go there

Meanwhile he was backdooring working on a trade for D-Will

Not that it proved to be any remarkable payoff but masterful job of misdirection

Nope, I remember quite clearly at the time, Utah said they were waiting in the wings for Knicks and Nets to finishing driving up the price for Melo, and then planned to approach the loser and propose the same deal for DWill, which they did.

I read Billy King had been working on the deal, they used to work together he and Miller

Before they actually agreed and the deals weren't the same

Nets gave up Favors-Harris 2 1st round picks

Knicks gave up Gallo-Chandler-Mozgov-Randolph 2 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks