mreinman wrote:

franco12 wrote:The funny thing about that 54 win team - as I remember, they got off to a great start, then coasted into the play offs. I said it then, they were not as good as their record.

jason kidd started off the season as larry bird. His TS was insane.

And there were games he missed that we lost that had people on here saying he was the MVP, not Melo.

I remember thinking and maybe posting that too.

And in hindsight, its really hard for me to argue with the statement that Melo is a me first loser basketball player who puts up great numbers, but who no one really likes or wants to lay down for.

Leadership. This is the quality lacking from this team, and last years. Not scoring, not rebounding, not defense- though those are traits and skills missing.

Melo is perhaps the Anti Leader.

mreinman wrote:

franco12 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

franco12 wrote:The funny thing about that 54 win team - as I remember, they got off to a great start, then coasted into the play offs. I said it then, they were not as good as their record.

jason kidd started off the season as larry bird. His TS was insane.

And there were games he missed that we lost that had people on here saying he was the MVP, not Melo.

I remember thinking and maybe posting that too.

And in hindsight, its really hard for me to argue with the statement that Melo is a me first loser basketball player who puts up great numbers, but who no one really likes or wants to lay down for.

Leadership. This is the quality lacking from this team, and last years. Not scoring, not rebounding, not defense- though those are traits and skills missing.

Melo is perhaps the Anti Leader.

I am in the same boat as you.

I held out hope for him and maybe even deflected some blame or ignored alarms that usually don't get ignored

I'm curious about what was the tipping point for you?

You kind of half jabbed me for my stance very recently as being obsessed with the non-basketball aspects of Melo as being a pointless waste of time (correct me if I'm wrong in my portrayal). Basically, I've had an unwavering POV that it was all fair game, because Melo's character is consistently poor on and off the court in regards to how it impacts his obligation to being a leader on this team.

What has changed for you?

franco12 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

franco12 wrote:The funny thing about that 54 win team - as I remember, they got off to a great start, then coasted into the play offs. I said it then, they were not as good as their record.

jason kidd started off the season as larry bird. His TS was insane.

And there were games he missed that we lost that had people on here saying he was the MVP, not Melo.

I remember thinking and maybe posting that too.

And in hindsight, its really hard for me to argue with the statement that Melo is a me first loser basketball player who puts up great numbers, but who no one really likes or wants to lay down for.

Leadership. This is the quality lacking from this team, and last years. Not scoring, not rebounding, not defense- though those are traits and skills missing.

Melo is perhaps the Anti Leader.

Not really the way I remembered it..Kidd was out at the end of November staring on the 26Nov to Dec 2nd..Knicks were 4-1 without Kidd...At the end of January Kidd missed another two games where the Knicks were 2-0...It's when Felton was hurt the Knicks played .500 ball for a stretch of 10 games...

mreinman wrote:I don't care about him off the court and still could care less what he says. You are truly obsessed with him.

Once he signed the 124 million discounted contract, it was all fair game. Before that, he held up his and actually had really strong numbers in NY including solid efficiency.

Now with the higher contract, and the new system which was supposed to help him increase his TS, I expected far more ball movement and create-to-pass opportunities. I am watching every passing opportunity and with every blatant missed pass, my rage grows.

Thats all I want from him. Give me some damn assists! The other stuff will come.

Can't understand why he can't average 5 assists per game.

What we have so far is playoff melo that is determine to shoot himself into games. Puke.

PASS THE FUKKIN BALL YOU MORON!

I actually posted many times last year about his lack of second half assists.

And, I have always stated that he needs to stop with the stupid long 2's.

OK, thanks for clarifying.

I said he's not a good basketball player. The sin is he can be. It would be different if he was incapable of the things you're nailing him for, but he most certainly is. He may not be a ballerina, but he still has certain physical talent and that includes passing, moving off the ball better, being a better teammate on defense and superior shot selection.

It's aggravating because it is not asking for much. He's paid so much. How could he not try to play with a conscience finally? It is downright embarrassing. It is also embarrassing seeing some fans bury their head in the sand about his way of playing.

I don't care if people relate to my obsession about character issues, but the play speaks for itself. He is not playing winning ball and all the lame BS about surrounding him with better players doesn't excuse him from this criticism.

Melo as he is presently performing is not even worth half what he is paid. It is alarming.

mreinman wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:

franco12 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

franco12 wrote:The funny thing about that 54 win team - as I remember, they got off to a great start, then coasted into the play offs. I said it then, they were not as good as their record.

jason kidd started off the season as larry bird. His TS was insane.

And there were games he missed that we lost that had people on here saying he was the MVP, not Melo.

I remember thinking and maybe posting that too.

And in hindsight, its really hard for me to argue with the statement that Melo is a me first loser basketball player who puts up great numbers, but who no one really likes or wants to lay down for.

Leadership. This is the quality lacking from this team, and last years. Not scoring, not rebounding, not defense- though those are traits and skills missing.

Melo is perhaps the Anti Leader.

I am in the same boat as you.

I held out hope for him and maybe even deflected some blame or ignored alarms that usually don't get ignored

I'm curious about what was the tipping point for you?

You kind of half jabbed me for my stance very recently as being obsessed with the non-basketball aspects of Melo as being a pointless waste of time (correct me if I'm wrong in my portrayal). Basically, I've had an unwavering POV that it was all fair game, because Melo's character is consistently poor on and off the court in regards to how it impacts his obligation to being a leader on this team.

What has changed for you?

I don't care about him off the court and still could care less what he says. You are truly obsessed with him.

Once he signed the 124 million discounted contract, it was all fair game. Before that, he held up his and actually had really strong numbers in NY including solid efficiency.

Now with the higher contract, and the new system which was supposed to help him increase his TS, I expected far more ball movement and create-to-pass opportunities. I am watching every passing opportunity and with every blatant missed pass, my rage grows.

Thats all I want from him. Give me some damn assists! The other stuff will come.

Can't understand why he can't average 5 assists per game.

What we have so far is playoff melo that is determine to shoot himself into games. Puke.

PASS THE FUKKIN BALL YOU MORON!

I actually posted many times last year about his lack of second half assists.

And, I have always stated that he needs to stop with the stupid long 2's.

What games are u guys watching anyway..The Knicks is the second highest passing team in the NBA but can't execute off those passes..When Melo if off the court,
then Knicks has the worst offensive efficiency in the history on the NBA..Again, In the history of the NBA...So who are you really pointing the finger at???

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2294545-grading-every-first-year-nba-coach-at-2014-15-quarter-season-mark/page/4

Derek Fisher's suit game is strong. His New York Knicks are not.

Transitioning from player to coach was always going to be a major adjustment. Making said transition with a team that clearly isn't assembled to win now and is undergoing a systematic shift only complicates his learning experience.

Few expected the Knicks to be this bad, though. While the ball movement is there—they rank second in passes per game—the execution is not. Pick-and-rolls are no longer an offensive staple, almost 39 percent of their shots come from mid-range, slashes to the basket are infrequent and half-hearted, and they're still entirely too reliant on Carmelo Anthony.

To wit: When Anthony is off the floor, the Knicks are scoring just 91.9 points per 100 possessions, which equates to the worst offensive rating in NBA history.

Results are equally disconcerting on the defensive end. The Knicks rank 27th in efficiency and run a questionable scheme that encourages opposing teams to jack oft-open three-pointers. Such struggles have earned them the East's third-worst record and left Knicks President Phil Jackson lamenting their performance.

"It's about a loser's mentality," he said, per ESPNNewYork.com's Ian Begley. "It's not about the skill or the talent level."

Although Fisher has shown he can coach the Knicks into a potentially bottomless pit without seemingly losing control of the locker room or permitting rampant finger-pointing, his rotations are unpredictable, and he's hardly done enough to instill long-term confidence in his sideline sagacity.

mreinman wrote:holfresh, the system calls for lots of early ball movement which will obviously lead to more/many passes but in the second half of the clock when Melo has the ball, and, he starts making his move, and the double comes, is he looking to pass to the open man?

When you watch the games, do you actually see melo as a willing passer? Do you ever yell at your tv "pass the fuking ball melo!"

Cmon ... nobody can say with a straight face that he is a willing passer

It goes from game to game. WHat I really dislike is the little pump fakes. He should just make the quick pass back to the strong side guard if the cross court pass is not wide open. He really should not have a game with less than 3 ast.

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:holfresh, the system calls for lots of early ball movement which will obviously lead to more/many passes but in the second half of the clock when Melo has the ball, and, he starts making his move, and the double comes, is he looking to pass to the open man?

When you watch the games, do you actually see melo as a willing passer? Do you ever yell at your tv "pass the fuking ball melo!"

Cmon ... nobody can say with a straight face that he is a willing passer

It goes from game to game. WHat I really dislike is the little pump fakes. He should just make the quick pass back to the strong side guard if the cross court pass is not wide open. He really should not have a game with less than 3 ast.

right. always the stupid cross court pass when everything collapses.

why not the quick pass to the strong side??? NEVER

I would like an immediate pass up top to the strong guard. They have always sagged off to help on Carmelo to give that player a nice quick open look. In the pass the cross court pass worked and still does at times but you do not have to always go for the home run. It is okay to hit a double. I would like to see the weak side big flash to the pinch post but that's a different issue.

Mike Woodson recognized what he had to work with and attempted to squeeze the most from a roster in flux.

I miss Don Nelson.