F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:I'm still trying to figure out since when did Calderon become a leader in the NBA?

So am I!

This thread resembles a fugitive on the run

Nix keeps hiding behind a cloak of misunderstanding but we all see this thread for what it is

May add more in a bit

You guys are f'n unbelievable!!!

Jose Calderon vs Kevin Garnett:
These two passionate players got into each others faces more than a few times over the years. Garnett, a player whom I love to hate, and Calderon, a player I just loved. KG always had a reputation for getting into the faces of players and intimidating everyone including the referees.

Fortunately, Jose Calderon was having none of it.

There was no greater spectacle than watching this 6'3" point guard go toe-to-toe and jaw-to-jaw against 6'11" center I consider to be the biggest bully in the league. It got so bad that KG went out to guard Jose Calderon as the game wound down and they just kept going at each other. Jose, with his never-break attitude came at Garnett with everything he had. In my mind, nothing exemplifies Jose Calderon's passion more than these battles.

Calderon brings a Gatorade for everyone:
You probably caught it during the breaks as the Raptors TV crew would give you a shot into the Raptors locker room. Watching Jose Calderon come up to his teammates with handfuls of Gatorade and tossing it out to his buds speaks to his character and how he fosters relationships with everyone. It also talks to his lack of an ego and his leadership.

That's only a small glimpse. There were other behind-the-scenes group building events such as hosting the team in Spain when the Raptors went abroad, and calling a team meeting and putting together a team dinner when things looked down.

Professionalism:
He said it this year and proceeded to put together some of his strongest performances as a Toronto Raptor. Ever since he talked about the need for being professional in the wake of the Kyle Lowry situation, Jose Calderon turned it on and once again managed to win his starting point guard job back from another challenger.

Against T.J. Ford, Jarrett Jack, and Kyle Lowry, Jose has always come out on top, and I think we owe it to his professionalism in the face of adversity.

In the locker room, it is well known that Jose Calderon is well respected and has the type of leadership qualities that you want out of your floor general. In a time of a complete organizational shift in thinking and personnel, it is essential to have stability within the lineup. Calderon is a perfect fit for the triangle offense and Derek Fisher will lean on him heavily in his first year.

Just think of all the times you shook your head or yelled at the T.V. because Raymond Felton cost the Knicks a defensive possession, a basket, or even a game. Insert a new point guard and the Knicks season has a chance to be very different. People tend to forget how critical the point guard position is to a team. There is no doubt the Knicks have more talent now on roster than they did when they won 54 games a year ago. Will they reach that kind of potential? It all rests in the hands of the newly acquired Spanish point guard, Jose Calderon.

Just four games in, Calderon has already injected the Pistons with a new sense of confidence. Lawrence Frank marvels about Calderon’s calmness and leadership, and the coach has begun to rely upon the 31-year-old to smooth over the offense and, more importantly, rub his knowledge on Brandon Knight. The Pistons undoubtedly remain confident in Knight as their point guard of the future, but they realize this trade will be most successful if Knight absorbs Calderon’s pace-changing brilliance and approach toward running the offense.

Calderon has been received well within the Pistons’ locker room,...

“All of our post-season meetings with the players led us to a clear conclusion that there’s a few leaders in that locker room, and one of them is Jose Calderon. The players have a tremendous amount of respect for him. Though a sub-par defender, Calderon is a solid shooter and he’s one of the league’s best passers, routinely posting an elite assist-to-turnover ratio. “

The reason for this is, as stated, Calderon has been a long-time Raptor whose really evolved into a leader for this rebuilding franchise over the last few years.

Calderon is a good teammate, nobody would question that, the jury is out whether he can be a winning player and a leader.....hasnt done that yet.

Sometimes people say whatever to get a point across, compared to brandon Knight calderon certainly is a leader.

nixluva wrote:You guys are really too much. It's Ok tho. keep up the faith. Stay Negative Nancy Doubters to the end. No amount of evidence will convince you that you're wrong, so go on in your ignorance. Wallow in it like pigs in mud. Bury your heads in the sand on this issue if you like. It won't change reality. No one is saying Jose is the best PG in the NBA. He's clearly got flaws. His poor D, he's not very athletic and won't attack the hoop like more athletic PG's. He is however, better than Felton and that's a good thing for this team.

Point guard in the NBA has the lowest positional value in the modern era. The core of available talent in the NBA is completely height dependent. It's why there are so few superstar players and so few players who can make such a massive impact on a team from season to season. How many people in the world period are tall enough to play in the NBA? Average height in an American male is about 5'8 to 5'9. Men who are 6 feet tall and over are about 9-10 percent of the total adult male population. People who are 6'5 and over are like in the 1 percent range.

Do you know how hard it is to find people who are 6'8 and over? How many people in the world are 7 feet tall? How many of those are male. How many of those have the coordination and athleticism to play NBA level basketball?

The absolute hardest thing to find in the NBA is an elite two way center. Someone who can be a 7 foot pivot who can defend the rim, show good fundamentals and footwork and offer some offensive upside. This is absolutely rare. It's like finding a unicorn. It's why even mediocre big men in the NBA can rack up 10-12 million dollar a year contracts.

The 2nd hardest thing to find are elite wing players. Athletic guys in the 6'6 to 6'9 range who can provide length, defense, shooting and able to penetrate and finish at the rim. Not quite unicorns, but the odds of finding one are about the same odds are you getting a blowjob from Jessica Alba tomorrow night. They are rare and well paid and the market reflects this. Avery Bradley got paid. Gordon Hayward got paid. And they aren't even top tier players.

The most available type of player in the NBA, much more plentiful are power forwards and point guards. Given the influx of Euro talent, there is more of a glut of the 6'10 big man who can shoot long range and stretch the floor. Often they aren't asked to defend the rim, but open driving lanes for wings and become fall back shooting options, especially for the three ball. Point guards are a dime a dozen. It's just easier to find 6'2 to 6'4 guys in the total population. You can find a serviceable point guard all around the draft. Just because the Knicks have had so many problems finding a good point guard doesn't mean that's true for the rest of the league. The 76ers didn't blink to trade Jrue Holiday. The Mavs didn't hesitate to move Calderon to get a legit rim protector. The Rockets cycled through Aaron Brooks, Goran Dragic, Kyle Lowery and Jeremy Lin.

Look at the remaining restricted FAs on the market now. Bledsoe, a point guard with injury concerns who wants more money than the market will bear. And Greg Monroe, really a power forward, who can't defend the rim and doesn't have the long range shooting to space the floor.

Is Calderon a better player than Felton? Absolutely. But we are comparing a player against possibly the worst starting point guard in the entire NBA. There are teams whose reserve point guards were better than Felton.

Is Calderon the best long term fit for the Knicks winning a ring? No. He's a great shooter, but there's a reason he's been traded so many times the past few years. He can't play defense, and the Knicks need defense more than they need another scorer.

Along with Melo, Calderon makes the Knicks good enough to grab a back end playoff spot maybe in the East, but not allow them to be bad enough to get a top end lottery pick to get real help. The Knicks are dangerously set up to be a "treadmill team" Winning just enough to squeak into the playoffs, never strong enough to contend, never bad enough to rearm with the best prospects in the draft. The Knicks will have to hope to attract a top level free agent in a year and/or hope they can hit gold with middle of the pack picks in the NBA draft, when they are able to have their picks again. As I mentioned before, how likely does open cap space work to really help most teams who carve out lots of space? It doesn't really work out for most teams. While rookies are great cost controlled labor, picks in the middle and back end of the first round become problematic. They are guaranteed money for guys not assured of even being rotational contributors.

Calderon is a useful player, he is not however going to be a massive difference maker. If he was, the Mavs wouldn't have traded him. He wouldn't have been available before that. Of course he looks awesome compared to Felton. That's like saying a muffin top nagging chick who works as a truck stop waitress is a better catch than the homeless toothless non bathing girl you were banging before. ( Yes in that case, Felton is the homeless toothless girl )

The Knicks have a shoot first scoring power forward who doesn't really care about defense and is generally in poor condition, despite his All Star status and a gunner point guard who can't defend and is losing his ability to break down a defense and finish around the rim.

Blaming Felton and Woodson doesn't change the fact that to contend, the Knicks need a rim protecting center and a couple of athletic defensive oriented wings with length who work as Dobermans on the perimeter.

What's the reality? That anyone and anything is better than banging a toothless homeless girl?

I'm happy the Knicks are moving in a positive direction ( I think Early was a good pick. I think Older Brother Antelope was another good acquisition. I'm happy to see the team not bleeding draft picks and throwing them away like in the past) But it's time to see some "reality" outside of the homer lenses. Blaming Felton and Woodson don't fix the core issues the Knicks have. That will take time.

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:You guys are really too much. It's Ok tho. keep up the faith. Stay Negative Nancy Doubters to the end. No amount of evidence will convince you that you're wrong, so go on in your ignorance. Wallow in it like pigs in mud. Bury your heads in the sand on this issue if you like. It won't change reality. No one is saying Jose is the best PG in the NBA. He's clearly got flaws. His poor D, he's not very athletic and won't attack the hoop like more athletic PG's. He is however, better than Felton and that's a good thing for this team. We need good players who are good in the locker room and think Team 1st. Jose will be good for our young developing players. He'll be good for our vets. There's no reason to be negative about his presence on this team. Fighting over Jose's value to this team vs Felton is foolish. You know full well that Felton is not on Jose's level as a player. Just like Dolan is not equal to Phil and Fish is a better fit for this team than Woody. Fish may be inexperienced but that doesn't mean he's not qualified.

Phil, Fish and Jose gives this team a chain of command that we can trust to be in sync. Jose doesn't have some personal agenda. he will carry out the game plan that Phil and Fish lay out for the team. This is a huge change for this franchise. We haven't had this kind of unison in a long time. It will make a difference in how this team is prepared to play and how it executes every night. They may need time to get everyone coached up and on track, but in the end it's a better start than we had last year with Dolan, Woody and Felton dragging the team down. No more games. Just Basketball.

What evidence? Unless I'm mistaken no games have been played.

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:You guys are really too much. It's Ok tho. keep up the faith. Stay Negative Nancy Doubters to the end. No amount of evidence will convince you that you're wrong, so go on in your ignorance. Wallow in it like pigs in mud. Bury your heads in the sand on this issue if you like. It won't change reality. No one is saying Jose is the best PG in the NBA. He's clearly got flaws. His poor D, he's not very athletic and won't attack the hoop like more athletic PG's. He is however, better than Felton and that's a good thing for this team. We need good players who are good in the locker room and think Team 1st. Jose will be good for our young developing players. He'll be good for our vets. There's no reason to be negative about his presence on this team. Fighting over Jose's value to this team vs Felton is foolish. You know full well that Felton is not on Jose's level as a player. Just like Dolan is not equal to Phil and Fish is a better fit for this team than Woody. Fish may be inexperienced but that doesn't mean he's not qualified.

Phil, Fish and Jose gives this team a chain of command that we can trust to be in sync. Jose doesn't have some personal agenda. he will carry out the game plan that Phil and Fish lay out for the team. This is a huge change for this franchise. We haven't had this kind of unison in a long time. It will make a difference in how this team is prepared to play and how it executes every night. They may need time to get everyone coached up and on track, but in the end it's a better start than we had last year with Dolan, Woody and Felton dragging the team down. No more games. Just Basketball.

What evidence? Unless I'm mistaken no games have been played.

Dude, haven't you seen the 5 million posts indicating that Calderon is a top 18 PG!

Lets be fair, I've counted 4 million and a thread blaming Felton and Woodson for the season, and Dolan too.

Just wondering though since we're discussing root causes.....does Dolan get praised now, since he's the ROOT of Phil being here?

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:You guys are really too much. It's Ok tho. keep up the faith. Stay Negative Nancy Doubters to the end. No amount of evidence will convince you that you're wrong, so go on in your ignorance. Wallow in it like pigs in mud. Bury your heads in the sand on this issue if you like. It won't change reality. No one is saying Jose is the best PG in the NBA. He's clearly got flaws. His poor D, he's not very athletic and won't attack the hoop like more athletic PG's. He is however, better than Felton and that's a good thing for this team. We need good players who are good in the locker room and think Team 1st. Jose will be good for our young developing players. He'll be good for our vets. There's no reason to be negative about his presence on this team. Fighting over Jose's value to this team vs Felton is foolish. You know full well that Felton is not on Jose's level as a player. Just like Dolan is not equal to Phil and Fish is a better fit for this team than Woody. Fish may be inexperienced but that doesn't mean he's not qualified.

Phil, Fish and Jose gives this team a chain of command that we can trust to be in sync. Jose doesn't have some personal agenda. he will carry out the game plan that Phil and Fish lay out for the team. This is a huge change for this franchise. We haven't had this kind of unison in a long time. It will make a difference in how this team is prepared to play and how it executes every night. They may need time to get everyone coached up and on track, but in the end it's a better start than we had last year with Dolan, Woody and Felton dragging the team down. No more games. Just Basketball.

What evidence? Unless I'm mistaken no games have been played.

Dude, haven't you seen the 5 million posts indicating that Calderon is a top 18 PG!

Lets be fair, I've counted 4 million and a thread blaming Felton and Woodson for the season, and Dolan too.

Just wondering though since we're discussing root causes.....does Dolan get praised now, since he's the ROOT of Phil being here?

I think anyone who loves how the off-season is going would have to give Dolan some credit

Agreed, but I'm trying to establish roots here. Dolan would be the root at this point, but I see no praise for him.

Had Phil executed a trade for Amar'e, Nix includes him in the root causes

Had Phil executed a trade before the draft with Iman, Nix includes him in the root causes

Reading articles on why Dallas traded Calderon instead of going way back to his lottery Raptor days///

You'll discover he wasn't ELITE according to them

I think Calderon can contribute positively in our system

Showing equality in assessing his play in comparison to Felton/////

I'm not going to compare 2013-2014 Calderon to 2013-2014 Felton

I'll question if Calderon can prove to be significantly better than 2012-2013 Felton[54 win season Felton]

For this is the season, our current team is gauged for peak success.

If I go back further to rival Calderon Raptor yrs////

Can Calderon best 2010-2011 Felton

We'll need such valued play from Calderon in order to have a successful season, along with others doing their part

Since you guys are so down on Calderon and his value to the team why not present your rationale for why he's not a major upgrade over Felton?

Dime Magazine:

16. JOSE CALDERON
Surprised he’s on the list? You shouldn’t be. The league-leader in three-point percentage last year (46.1) also boasted the sixth-highest assists per game (8.6). Yes, he might have a hard time defending nearly anyone (really, he is an atrocious defender) and yes, he probably didn’t deserve a four-year contract worth a shade under $30 million at the ripe age of 32. But he is one of the league’s best game/floor managers, not to mention the holder of the highest career free throw percentage ever in a season (98.1). He might not be an explosive athlete, but Calderon is a smart vet who rarely makes mistakes.

CBS Sports:

16. Brandon Knight, MIL	73.05	73.05	+0.00	72	33.3	17.9	3.5	4.9	42.2	80.2
17. Reggie Jackson, OKC	72.15	72.15	+0.00	80	28.5	13.1	3.9	4.1	44.0	89.3
18. Jose Calderon, DAL	71.64	71.64	+0.00	81	30.5	11.4	2.4	4.7	45.6	82.5

Hollinger Stats - True Shooting Percentage - Qualified Point Guards

RK  PLAYER	        GP	MPG	TS%	AST	TO	USG	PER	
1   Pablo Prigioni, NY	66	19.4	.642	47.1	12.4	10.8	13.02	
2   Stephen Curry, GS	78	36.5	.610	26.7	11.8	28.2	24.13	
3   Jose Calderon, DAL	81	30.5	.596	30.0	8.2	16.4	15.25	
4   Patty Mills, SA	81	18.9	.588	16.3	6.9	21.2	18.80	
5   Chris Paul, LAC	62	35.0	.580	36.2	7.9	25.0	25.98

Sporting News - Sean Deveney

14 Jose Calderon, Mavericks

Numbers: 11.3 points, 7.1 assists, 2.4 rebounds.

There is no question as to why Calderon cracks this list—he was incredible from the 3-point line last year. Over the course of his career, Calderon has been a good perimeter shooter, making 38.1 percent from the arc, but he was outstanding in his first 45 games, with Toronto, making 42.9 percent.

After arriving in Detroit, though, Calderon went bonkers, making 52.0 percent of his 3s and finishing with a league-best 46.1 percent mark. He is 32, and though he is still a very good playmaker, he could stay in the league for a long time yet if he keeps shooting that way.

Can anyone find similar rankings for Felton? Anyone saying such positive things about Felton anywhere? As i've said Jose has his flaws, but in terms of helping this team in areas that we need this year he is an improvement over Felton and should be able to execute what Phil and Fish want this team to do. He fits the Triangle and he's a good leader. The key will be to find a way to minimize his poor defensive abilities. If they can do that we have a very good chance for success.

azamatbagatov wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:I started this thread because I know it's all too easy to just generalize or pick on a player or 2 that people don't like and try to make them the reason for the losing. I think if you look at any successful team the success starts at the top. Just cuz a team has talent doesn't guarantee wins.

Ironically, that's what you did in your opening post.

/thread

Already addressed this. The focus of the thread isn't about just a player. It's about the leadership from President to Head Coach To PG. Comparing our leadership chain from Dolan, Woody and Felton to what it is now Phil, Fish and Jose. Dolan, Woody and Felton were not in sync. Dolan was undermining Woody and really messed with his head and cut his authority with the players. That didn't help an already challenged Woody who went on to really struggle with his lineups and rotations. Players underperformed and things went south quick. Felton didn't do Woody any favors either. His play was awful on both ends and his mental disposition was compromised by his issues at home. The 3 of them hardly presented a unified chain of leadership you would want for a successful team. That is the focus of this thread.

It's hard to win if you have that level of dysfunction at the top of your franchise and onto the court. IMO Phil, Fish and Jose should present a much more focused and unified trio and be more effective in leading this team in the right direction. This makes things easier for the rest of the players when that part of your team is functioning properly and all are on the same page. There are no alternate agendas and no games being played. It's just about BB.

nixluva wrote:I think are a very cynical bunch of ass holes that reside on UK. It's easy to make jokes and be negative. So far the Negative Nancy Doubters have contributed very little to this forum. If you have a point to make that actually refutes the evidence presented then post that. We don't need your lame jokes and meaningless posts. Sure Dolan made an offer to Phil and after a lot of assurances that Dolan wouldn't interfere Phil finally accepted. You wanna give Dolan some credit for that. Fine. Still doesn't change the actual job of making day to day BB decisions which is what my point was. Dolan is no longer making the BB decisions as he's relinquished those duties to Phil. Thus Phil has replaced Dolan in that role. No more Dolan literally negotiation trades. So if you smart asses are done F'n up the thread with your nonsense lets move on to more substantive posts.

Since you guys are so down on Calderon and his value to the team why not present your rationale for why he's not a major upgrade over Felton?

Dime Magazine:

16. JOSE CALDERON
Surprised he’s on the list? You shouldn’t be. The league-leader in three-point percentage last year (46.1) also boasted the sixth-highest assists per game (8.6). Yes, he might have a hard time defending nearly anyone (really, he is an atrocious defender) and yes, he probably didn’t deserve a four-year contract worth a shade under $30 million at the ripe age of 32. But he is one of the league’s best game/floor managers, not to mention the holder of the highest career free throw percentage ever in a season (98.1). He might not be an explosive athlete, but Calderon is a smart vet who rarely makes mistakes.

CBS Sports:

16. Brandon Knight, MIL	73.05	73.05	+0.00	72	33.3	17.9	3.5	4.9	42.2	80.2
17. Reggie Jackson, OKC	72.15	72.15	+0.00	80	28.5	13.1	3.9	4.1	44.0	89.3
18. Jose Calderon, DAL	71.64	71.64	+0.00	81	30.5	11.4	2.4	4.7	45.6	82.5

Hollinger Stats - True Shooting Percentage - Qualified Point Guards

RK  PLAYER	        GP	MPG	TS%	AST	TO	USG	PER	
1   Pablo Prigioni, NY	66	19.4	.642	47.1	12.4	10.8	13.02	
2   Stephen Curry, GS	78	36.5	.610	26.7	11.8	28.2	24.13	
3   Jose Calderon, DAL	81	30.5	.596	30.0	8.2	16.4	15.25	
4   Patty Mills, SA	81	18.9	.588	16.3	6.9	21.2	18.80	
5   Chris Paul, LAC	62	35.0	.580	36.2	7.9	25.0	25.98

Sporting News - Sean Deveney

14 Jose Calderon, Mavericks

Numbers: 11.3 points, 7.1 assists, 2.4 rebounds.

There is no question as to why Calderon cracks this list—he was incredible from the 3-point line last year. Over the course of his career, Calderon has been a good perimeter shooter, making 38.1 percent from the arc, but he was outstanding in his first 45 games, with Toronto, making 42.9 percent.

After arriving in Detroit, though, Calderon went bonkers, making 52.0 percent of his 3s and finishing with a league-best 46.1 percent mark. He is 32, and though he is still a very good playmaker, he could stay in the league for a long time yet if he keeps shooting that way.

Can anyone find similar rankings for Felton? Anyone saying such positive things about Felton anywhere? As i've said Jose has his flaws, but in terms of helping this team in areas that we need this year he is an improvement over Felton and should be able to execute what Phil and Fish want this team to do. He fits the Triangle and he's a good leader. The key will be to find a way to minimize his poor defensive abilities. If they can do that we have a very good chance for success.

Can you show me the footage of calderon being the starting point guard for a 54 win team like felton was?

I'll even take game logs.

Thanks in advance.