fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

take that poopy flavored lolipop out of your mouth and stop posting your theories. They suck

what about the rest of the post skippy

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

take that poopy flavored lolipop out of your mouth and stop posting your theories. They suck

what about the rest of the post skippy

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

Right. Barring a miracle in free agency and with the cap I see us locked into mediocrity. I guess that's better than the Layden, Isiah & Walsh years. Difference is I don't have the same optimism I had back then. All the heartache made me numb to Knicks disappointment. Maybe I will get excited again once we build a legitimate contender if ever.

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

take that poopy flavored lolipop out of your mouth and stop posting your theories. They suck

what about the rest of the post skippy

Just take his post as a compliment and enjoy your day. You're not going to get a serious basketball discussion here.

Let's continue to set the fine example, while encouraging him.

Maybe he'll evolve and grow into a role of valued contribution

Bonn1997 wrote:I can only think of one person who comes close to doing that, he gets piled on by dozens of posters already.

Melo?

smackeddog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

I don't understand how it's not the same! I found it frustrating that we gave up so much for Melo but thats on Dolan- people have been blaming Melo for years, but at the end of the day how many players refuse to be traded to a team and wait until free agency (especially going into a new cba) so that the team they want to go to can keep all it's assets. It's just a weird standard people hold Melo too- I'm fine with blasting him for his play, on/off defense and iso-ing, but some of the stuff he gets attacked for is just weird. He's evil for taking a max deal? Just odd.

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?

Love wants to keep his Bird's Rights and sign for more or the most money possible

Let's keep this in perspective, it won't hurt the Cavs

He and Lebron have opt outs at the same time thus creating flexibility for Cavs to play with numbers

When you lock in early long term, you take way those options from a team

Melo could have signed the exact same contract as Lebron but chose not to

Love signed a Rookie contract extension for 4yrs $60mil.

This is a far cry from Derrick Rose max, what others got paid/////

And have been paid since, of his caliber

Because teams feared Wolves would match he never received a legit offer from competition.

Would you say he's been underpaid according to market standards currently?

If yes, he chose to stay in Minny instead of going with a 4yr deal 3yr opt out following season

Would he have lost tons of money with this option considering his QO was competitively high?

Not really, he went with loyalty and guaranteed money at less than market value

Has Melo ever been underpaid in his career?

Absolutely not

Has Melo ever been grossly overpaid in his career

Absolutely so, and for most of it

I think it's reasonable for Love to go get paid at this point, while in his prime

Especially if he'll be playing for a championship contending team

I don't have an issue with Love or Melo getting paid. I do think if you are going to trash a guy for forcing a move prior to players being to be locked out so free agency rules can be changed it seems fair to bring into question a guy that does the same thing when there isn't even a threat of labor stoppage. Both guys could have theoretically finished the year and not made their new teams not give up assets. Of course if you go with that theory you have to assume that their teams are run by very incompetent management that would let them leave for nothing. In Melo's case that had just happened in Miami and Toronto.

I explained the above to you and apparently it's going over your head

Maybe this next example calms your brain nerves down some, what about this thought

Love currently plays for the Wolves, they aren't any good/////

Quite possibly the best mediocre team in basketball, right there with us

He wants to go play for a winning team in Cleveland, championship material

The situation alone here makes his and Melo's completely different

Melo was on a winning team, with a chance to retool again.

Love is not

Cleveland isn't gutting their team to acquire him

Love does have come culpability wanting out, why Minny isn't a better team with him

Cleveland's cap situation isn't as clear cut either for 2015 space

They are not?

And we did?

CrushAlot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

I don't understand how it's not the same! I found it frustrating that we gave up so much for Melo but thats on Dolan- people have been blaming Melo for years, but at the end of the day how many players refuse to be traded to a team and wait until free agency (especially going into a new cba) so that the team they want to go to can keep all it's assets. It's just a weird standard people hold Melo too- I'm fine with blasting him for his play, on/off defense and iso-ing, but some of the stuff he gets attacked for is just weird. He's evil for taking a max deal? Just odd.

Totally agree. Melo was supposed to take 35 mil less, wait for the owners to change the parameters of free agency and the Nuggets were supposed to sit back and let him walk for nothing just months after LeBron and Bosh did that to their teams. Does Ujiri seem that stupid?

Both Cavs and Raps received compensation when they left in S&T deals.

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?

Love wants to keep his Bird's Rights and sign for more or the most money possible

Let's keep this in perspective, it won't hurt the Cavs

He and Lebron have opt outs at the same time thus creating flexibility for Cavs to play with numbers

When you lock in early long term, you take way those options from a team

Melo could have signed the exact same contract as Lebron but chose not to

Love signed a Rookie contract extension for 4yrs $60mil.

This is a far cry from Derrick Rose max, what others got paid/////

And have been paid since, of his caliber

Because teams feared Wolves would match he never received a legit offer from competition.

Would you say he's been underpaid according to market standards currently?

If yes, he chose to stay in Minny instead of going with a 4yr deal 3yr opt out following season

Would he have lost tons of money with this option considering his QO was competitively high?

Not really, he went with loyalty and guaranteed money at less than market value

Has Melo ever been underpaid in his career?

Absolutely not

Has Melo ever been grossly overpaid in his career

Absolutely so, and for most of it

I think it's reasonable for Love to go get paid at this point, while in his prime

Especially if he'll be playing for a championship contending team

I don't have an issue with Love or Melo getting paid. I do think if you are going to trash a guy for forcing a move prior to players being to be locked out so free agency rules can be changed it seems fair to bring into question a guy that does the same thing when there isn't even a threat of labor stoppage. Both guys could have theoretically finished the year and not made their new teams not give up assets. Of course if you go with that theory you have to assume that their teams are run by very incompetent management that would let them leave for nothing. In Melo's case that had just happened in Miami and Toronto.

I explained the above to you and apparently it's going over your head

Maybe this next example calms your brain nerves down some, what about this thought

Love currently plays for the Wolves, they aren't any good/////

Quite possibly the best mediocre team in basketball, right there with us

He wants to go play for a winning team in Cleveland, championship material

The situation alone here makes his and Melo's completely different

Melo was on a winning team, with a chance to retool again.

Love is not

Cleveland isn't gutting their team to acquire him

Love does have come culpability wanting out, why Minny isn't a better team with him

Cleveland's cap situation isn't as clear cut either for 2015 space

They are not?

And we did?

Nope

Cleveland Wiggins 1 body, Bennett 1 body

1st rd Pick nobody

Knicks Gallo 1 body, Chandler 1 body, Felton 1 body, Randolph 1 body, Mozgov 1 body, Curry 1 body

2014 1st rd pick nobody, 2016 1st rd pick nobody, 2012 2nd nobody, 2013 2nd nobody

How many bodies is Cleveland giving up of value

How many bodies did Knicks give up of value

We gave up 6 bodies to get 5 but only 2 really got legit playing time

We beat them in bodies and nobodies value

At least as of now until we see what the official trade will be.

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?

Love wants to keep his Bird's Rights and sign for more or the most money possible

Let's keep this in perspective, it won't hurt the Cavs

He and Lebron have opt outs at the same time thus creating flexibility for Cavs to play with numbers

When you lock in early long term, you take way those options from a team

Melo could have signed the exact same contract as Lebron but chose not to

Love signed a Rookie contract extension for 4yrs $60mil.

This is a far cry from Derrick Rose max, what others got paid/////

And have been paid since, of his caliber

Because teams feared Wolves would match he never received a legit offer from competition.

Would you say he's been underpaid according to market standards currently?

If yes, he chose to stay in Minny instead of going with a 4yr deal 3yr opt out following season

Would he have lost tons of money with this option considering his QO was competitively high?

Not really, he went with loyalty and guaranteed money at less than market value

Has Melo ever been underpaid in his career?

Absolutely not

Has Melo ever been grossly overpaid in his career

Absolutely so, and for most of it

I think it's reasonable for Love to go get paid at this point, while in his prime

Especially if he'll be playing for a championship contending team

I don't have an issue with Love or Melo getting paid. I do think if you are going to trash a guy for forcing a move prior to players being to be locked out so free agency rules can be changed it seems fair to bring into question a guy that does the same thing when there isn't even a threat of labor stoppage. Both guys could have theoretically finished the year and not made their new teams not give up assets. Of course if you go with that theory you have to assume that their teams are run by very incompetent management that would let them leave for nothing. In Melo's case that had just happened in Miami and Toronto.

I explained the above to you and apparently it's going over your head

Maybe this next example calms your brain nerves down some, what about this thought

Love currently plays for the Wolves, they aren't any good/////

Quite possibly the best mediocre team in basketball, right there with us

He wants to go play for a winning team in Cleveland, championship material

The situation alone here makes his and Melo's completely different

Melo was on a winning team, with a chance to retool again.

Love is not

Cleveland isn't gutting their team to acquire him

Love does have come culpability wanting out, why Minny isn't a better team with him

Cleveland's cap situation isn't as clear cut either for 2015 space

It didn't go over my head. The situation when Melo was traded to NY was that the owners were telling the players that they were going to lock them out and reign in free agency. Melo like Love had a destination he wanted to go to and wanted a new deal under the old cba. The Nuggets were making the playoffs at the time but they weren't competing for a championship. Adding Melo and Billups to Amare in theory should have made the Knicks very competitive in the east. At the time the plan was to somehow get CP3 to play with Melo and Amare. Unfortunately Amare began having health issues shortly after the trade and the knicks made other moves that made the cp3 move impossible.

Denver championship material?///// neither were we after acquiring Melo.

In the end Minny is not a playoff team, Cleveland is.

More than likely a championship level team

Melo went from a playoff team to a playoff team.

Love is going from a lottery team to a contending team, not the same