dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:this player is impossible to build around. he is a piece not THE piece. that calls for a discount #1.

he isn't a two-way player. that, too, calls for a discount #2. you have to find and pay others to take up the defensive slack.

he doesn't facilitate adequately. that calls for a discount #3.

he isn't in supreme shape. that too calls for a discount #4.

there are four big reasons why melo should take a discount.

25 million a year? never

13 million per year is about right for this level of player if you want to have the best chance of building a winner.

Now you are disagreeing with Clyde about Melo being in supreme shape. Nice!

never heard of clyde saying that about carmelo anthiny. provide a link otherwise you're just hurling poop from your perch.

It was during a post game or pre game show towards the end of the season. Maybe you should come off of your stance that you will watch the Knicks when they are worth your time so you wouldn't be ignorant in these matters. Of course I might be wrong as to when the Knicks were not worth your time. Was it when they won 54 games or 37?

one of you should back up these alleged quotes with links otherwise it's just the same fantasizing that doesn't lead anywhere.

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:this player is impossible to build around. he is a piece not THE piece. that calls for a discount #1.

he isn't a two-way player. that, too, calls for a discount #2. you have to find and pay others to take up the defensive slack.

he doesn't facilitate adequately. that calls for a discount #3.

he isn't in supreme shape. that too calls for a discount #4.

there are four big reasons why melo should take a discount.

25 million a year? never

13 million per year is about right for this level of player if you want to have the best chance of building a winner.

Now you are disagreeing with Clyde about Melo being in supreme shape. Nice!

never heard of clyde saying that about carmelo anthiny. provide a link otherwise you're just hurling poop from your perch.

if you want to hear what Clyde says you have to watch the games

+1

I have only three words for that theory:

Nick Van Exel!

It is probably best for Melo and the Knicks to part ways. Without Melo, maybe guys like Stat and Bargs will benefit from the extra looks. Guys like Hardaway and Shump might develop. A lot of mights. But this team looks built for a 1st rd exit. Might as well take a flyer on the younger guys while we wait for real cap flexibility.

dk7th wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Not that Melo isn't worth the money. I just don't think he is worth it to us. Signing Melo to a max contract without having the core team around him is just breeding mediocrity for another 3-5 years. I do wish the best for him, but for him to be part of this team this year, I think he needs to shave that salary a bit to give flexibility. Personally, I don't see why Melo would do that, especially since guys like Stat and Bargs are getting paid. If Melo wants 1 year 23MM he can absolutely have it and take the year to mull over his future with NY while we wait for Stat and Bargs to expire.

It is probably best for Melo and the Knicks to part ways. Without Melo, maybe guys like Stat and Bargs will benefit from the extra looks. Guys like Hardaway and Shump might develop. A lot of mights. But this team looks built for a 1st rd exit. Might as well take a flyer on the younger guys while we wait for real cap flexibility.

look at the spurs, look at the heat. they didn't get to where they got without duncan and lebron taking significant paycuts based on their success and talent level.

carmelo has had no success and is just not as skilled or talented. why should he not take a substantial paycut to remain with the knicks?

He can, but no one has the right to demand it. Michael won rings without a paycut. So did Garnett. So did Shaq. If he can go somewhere at full market value and still have a chance to compete for a chip, why wouldn't he?

Don't get me wrong, I want him here. I just can't fathom paying him full price and don't see why he should have to take less than a max contract, particularly for a Knicks team that is arguably re-building.

TeamBall wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

dk7th wrote:this player is impossible to build around. he is a piece not THE piece. that calls for a discount #1.

he isn't a two-way player. that, too, calls for a discount #2. you have to find and pay others to take up the defensive slack.

he doesn't facilitate adequately. that calls for a discount #3.

he isn't in supreme shape. that too calls for a discount #4.

there are four big reasons why melo should take a discount.

25 million a year? never

13 million per year is about right for this level of player if you want to have the best chance of building a winner.

I don't want to pay him MAX $$ either, but now you're getting into ridiculous territory...$13mil per year? hard to take you seriously with posts like that.

yea no emotional posting there. Lets look at the market, which is being set by a handful of playoff teams looking to challenge for a title and their #1 MO is to add Melo. That market is max. Pretty much end of story.

I wonder if the Bulls will be offering him $13mm when they meet him at midnight tomorrow? So stupid.

I think his point is if the Knicks are going to be able to build a team with him that can win a championship he has to take a contract worth around that amount. Other teams with better players can afford more but since we dont have those players we cant

How did you get that from what he put in that post? What you said is actually reasonable.
He's saying that, according to those arbitrary standards, Melo actually isn't worth any more than 13 million per year.

because that is what i said. looks like i have found another poster who isn't a knucklehead. meanwhile you apparently enjoy misinterpreting for god knows what reason. wake the **** up. i have been saying the same thing for MONTHS:

he is not worth more than 12-14 million TO THE KNICKS.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

tj23 wrote:Tony Parker doesn't get enough credit. The guy is a star. Look at the amount of possessions he handles and how efficient he himself is as well as the whole spurs team. I'd probably take Chris Paul over Parker but that's about it among pg's(not factoring in age). Obviously they are a very well rounded team that is coached tremendously as well.

Back to Melo, I think if we don't pay him we might be back in the gutter for 5 more years. It all depends on how well we draft. Either we overpay a guy like we did Amare to come here and get us back in contention or we hope that we nail a couple picks in the draft. Our roster currently doesn't seem to be constructed well, yoots or not. Yeah if we don't pay Melo we'll have cap space but it will be useless with no one wanting to come here.

See i dont buy that. I mean even though i defend melo a lot its not like he has made us a contender. To be fair we have mostly been a 7th/8th seed and first round exit since he has been here. I dont mind brining him back BUT im sorry giving him 5 years 129 million in his 30's is crazy. Giving any player that money in his 30's is nuts unless its a player who has a bgitime resume and a few rings

Plus the team is basically a blank slate in a year. The only way we're bad for 5 years is if there are tons of bad decisions made. (And what's 5 bad years compared to 15 anyway!?)
We're much more likely to be stuck for years if we overpay Melo than if we start over. Many teams are hampered by bad contracts. No teams are hampered by having cap space.

Exactly. The only reason we ave been a mess for so long is JAMES DOLAN. Phil jackson now has complete control and he knows what he is doing. If melo wnats to stay in new york and eventually win then he nees to take less. You cant have your cake and eat it too.

You're getting a lot of PPG from Melo and the rest is just ordinary production. The idea that it's going to take 5 more years to find ways to build a team that scores a good amount of PPG (Melo's one contribution) is far-fetched.

Thank you. Can you please explain to the misinform how Melo is a one demnsional player. How his blks, stls, and defensive rebounding/ reb in general sucked compared to other 3s. Also how he got lit up on defense. Players FG% had to be silly last year against him so I don't want to hear that he has improved over the last few years either.

People need to smarten up.

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

tj23 wrote:Tony Parker doesn't get enough credit. The guy is a star. Look at the amount of possessions he handles and how efficient he himself is as well as the whole spurs team. I'd probably take Chris Paul over Parker but that's about it among pg's(not factoring in age). Obviously they are a very well rounded team that is coached tremendously as well.

Back to Melo, I think if we don't pay him we might be back in the gutter for 5 more years. It all depends on how well we draft. Either we overpay a guy like we did Amare to come here and get us back in contention or we hope that we nail a couple picks in the draft. Our roster currently doesn't seem to be constructed well, yoots or not. Yeah if we don't pay Melo we'll have cap space but it will be useless with no one wanting to come here.

See i dont buy that. I mean even though i defend melo a lot its not like he has made us a contender. To be fair we have mostly been a 7th/8th seed and first round exit since he has been here. I dont mind brining him back BUT im sorry giving him 5 years 129 million in his 30's is crazy. Giving any player that money in his 30's is nuts unless its a player who has a bgitime resume and a few rings

Plus the team is basically a blank slate in a year. The only way we're bad for 5 years is if there are tons of bad decisions made. (And what's 5 bad years compared to 15 anyway!?)
We're much more likely to be stuck for years if we overpay Melo than if we start over. Many teams are hampered by bad contracts. No teams are hampered by having cap space.

Exactly. The only reason we ave been a mess for so long is JAMES DOLAN. Phil jackson now has complete control and he knows what he is doing. If melo wnats to stay in new york and eventually win then he nees to take less. You cant have your cake and eat it too.

You're getting a lot of PPG from Melo and the rest is just ordinary production. The idea that it's going to take 5 more years to find ways to build a team that scores a good amount of PPG (Melo's one contribution) is far-fetched.

Thank you. Can you please explain to the misinform how Melo is a one demnsional player. How his blks, stls, and defensive rebounding/ reb in general sucked compared to other 3s. Also how he got lit up on defense. Players FG% had to be silly last year against him so I don't want to hear that he has improved over the last few years either.

People need to smarten up.

It just depends on what "one dimensional" means. I think they mean that he excels in one dimension (PPG) and is ordinary at everything else.

His WS48 is .171 as a knick. Ordinary is .100. .171 is way above ordinary.

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

tj23 wrote:Tony Parker doesn't get enough credit. The guy is a star. Look at the amount of possessions he handles and how efficient he himself is as well as the whole spurs team. I'd probably take Chris Paul over Parker but that's about it among pg's(not factoring in age). Obviously they are a very well rounded team that is coached tremendously as well.

Back to Melo, I think if we don't pay him we might be back in the gutter for 5 more years. It all depends on how well we draft. Either we overpay a guy like we did Amare to come here and get us back in contention or we hope that we nail a couple picks in the draft. Our roster currently doesn't seem to be constructed well, yoots or not. Yeah if we don't pay Melo we'll have cap space but it will be useless with no one wanting to come here.

See i dont buy that. I mean even though i defend melo a lot its not like he has made us a contender. To be fair we have mostly been a 7th/8th seed and first round exit since he has been here. I dont mind brining him back BUT im sorry giving him 5 years 129 million in his 30's is crazy. Giving any player that money in his 30's is nuts unless its a player who has a bgitime resume and a few rings

Plus the team is basically a blank slate in a year. The only way we're bad for 5 years is if there are tons of bad decisions made. (And what's 5 bad years compared to 15 anyway!?)
We're much more likely to be stuck for years if we overpay Melo than if we start over. Many teams are hampered by bad contracts. No teams are hampered by having cap space.

Exactly. The only reason we ave been a mess for so long is JAMES DOLAN. Phil jackson now has complete control and he knows what he is doing. If melo wnats to stay in new york and eventually win then he nees to take less. You cant have your cake and eat it too.

You're getting a lot of PPG from Melo and the rest is just ordinary production. The idea that it's going to take 5 more years to find ways to build a team that scores a good amount of PPG (Melo's one contribution) is far-fetched.

Exactly if we find a player who defends at better rate per 100 , rebounds better , and facilitates more 16 ppg might equal Melos overall production at half the price

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:this player is impossible to build around. he is a piece not THE piece. that calls for a discount #1.

he isn't a two-way player. that, too, calls for a discount #2. you have to find and pay others to take up the defensive slack.

he doesn't facilitate adequately. that calls for a discount #3.

he isn't in supreme shape. that too calls for a discount #4.

there are four big reasons why melo should take a discount.

25 million a year? never

13 million per year is about right for this level of player if you want to have the best chance of building a winner.

Now you are disagreeing with Clyde about Melo being in supreme shape. Nice!

never heard of clyde saying that about carmelo anthiny. provide a link otherwise you're just hurling poop from your perch.

if you want to hear what Clyde says you have to watch the games

+1

lol

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

tj23 wrote:Tony Parker doesn't get enough credit. The guy is a star. Look at the amount of possessions he handles and how efficient he himself is as well as the whole spurs team. I'd probably take Chris Paul over Parker but that's about it among pg's(not factoring in age). Obviously they are a very well rounded team that is coached tremendously as well.

Back to Melo, I think if we don't pay him we might be back in the gutter for 5 more years. It all depends on how well we draft. Either we overpay a guy like we did Amare to come here and get us back in contention or we hope that we nail a couple picks in the draft. Our roster currently doesn't seem to be constructed well, yoots or not. Yeah if we don't pay Melo we'll have cap space but it will be useless with no one wanting to come here.

See i dont buy that. I mean even though i defend melo a lot its not like he has made us a contender. To be fair we have mostly been a 7th/8th seed and first round exit since he has been here. I dont mind brining him back BUT im sorry giving him 5 years 129 million in his 30's is crazy. Giving any player that money in his 30's is nuts unless its a player who has a bgitime resume and a few rings

Plus the team is basically a blank slate in a year. The only way we're bad for 5 years is if there are tons of bad decisions made. (And what's 5 bad years compared to 15 anyway!?)
We're much more likely to be stuck for years if we overpay Melo than if we start over. Many teams are hampered by bad contracts. No teams are hampered by having cap space.

Exactly. The only reason we ave been a mess for so long is JAMES DOLAN. Phil jackson now has complete control and he knows what he is doing. If melo wnats to stay in new york and eventually win then he nees to take less. You cant have your cake and eat it too.

You're getting a lot of PPG from Melo and the rest is just ordinary production. The idea that it's going to take 5 more years to find ways to build a team that scores a good amount of PPG (Melo's one contribution) is far-fetched.

Thank you. Can you please explain to the misinform how Melo is a one demnsional player. How his blks, stls, and defensive rebounding/ reb in general sucked compared to other 3s. Also how he got lit up on defense. Players FG% had to be silly last year against him so I don't want to hear that he has improved over the last few years either.

People need to smarten up.

It just depends on what "one dimensional" means. I think they mean that he excels in one dimension (PPG) and is ordinary at everything else.

His WS48 is .171 as a knick. Ordinary is .100. .171 is way above ordinary.

Yeah, that doesn't necessarily contradict that he was one dimensional though - just that he excelled in that one dimension and was OK in other dimensions. .171 is pretty good but not outstanding. It places him as a top 30 NBA player right now (though he'll probably drop off in years 13 to 17 of the upcoming contract).
Out of curiosity, how much would you pay Melo?
I ask because I value your insights. Anyone who looks up and takes into consideration the advanced stats gets a bonus in my view!

I just had an issue with you saying that PPG was the only thing that he excelled at. PPG at an inefficient rate would not lead to a high WS48. He was pretty efficient and shot extremely well from 3.

As far as what I would pay him ...

Its not a simple question since I am not sure what Phil's plan is and I don't know what he knows. However, IMHO, I would say he will probably get 18-20 if he stays and I would not be too excited about it unless phil pulls off some miracle moves to surround him with good players (e.g. lowry)