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Coaching Staff Relieved of Duties
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holfresh
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4/21/2014  1:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/21/2014  3:36 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Clean wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Clean wrote:
holfresh wrote:I get it, when a team like the Knicks miss the playoffs with a 37 win season, then heads should roll...I'll say this tho, Woodson got a raw deal...I'm a little surprised many here who saw the results with Woody as head coach are so happy to see him go..Interesting...

Many here are already endorsing the triangle like it was handed down from Noah during the great flood(bootleg alert, Lupica)...We will see..I hope it doesn't stop there, this entire roster need to be overhauled starting with Tyson Chandler(many here had as a leader)..Tyson was the first to throw Woodson under the bus and jump into the lifeboat saying me first...

Phil's era has begun...

Who would not like to see him go after his horrid coaching in the playoffs. Every single playoff series I considered the Knicks to be at a disadvantage with coaching.

Who did the Knicks lose to in the playoffs that they should not have lost to?

I notice you did not address what I said but instead asked another question. So I wonder if you agree or disagree with my statement. Do you think Woody was a good coach in the playoffs? Do you think in any of our playoff series we had the advantage at the coaching position?


It ultimately comes down to the players on the court..In the NBA, it's all about the horses...If the games aren't close then you really don't see what difference a coach makes...I think coaching matters in terms of philosophy and the way a team approach playing, it's not an individual game thing...I don't think the games or the series were close where individual play calls and substitutions matter...We were clearly over matched on the court against Indy and Miami..

jackson is going to institute what he has called "system basketball." he is going to hire a coach that will be able to implement that system, and he will likely surround that coach with cheap veterans on the cusp of retirement that will help teach that system while also being a locker room stabilizing and pacifying presence. further, jackson will likely be looking to trade erratic and/or selfish players who he deems unfit to be coached or taught.

given your peculiar ethos and leanings i am afraid that you are not going to enjoy this edition of the knicks.

Well for me, it's never about the coaches or a system but about the talent on the court...All Jackson disciples have failed implementing his system..Phil Jackson is/was the talent not the triagle...Riley and Pop both have very distinguished coaching trees in the NBA, Phil has zero...Maybe he is trying to change that...I hope not at our expense...First up we signed a guy that was smoking crack a year ago...I stopped drinking the kool-aid after that...

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dk7th
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4/21/2014  1:46 PM
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Clean wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Clean wrote:
holfresh wrote:I get it, when a team like the Knicks miss the playoffs with a 37 win season, then heads should roll...I'll say this tho, Woodson got a raw deal...I'm a little surprised many here who saw the results with Woody as head coach are so happy to see him go..Interesting...

Many here are already endorsing the triangle like it was handed down from Noah during the great flood(bootleg alert, Lupica)...We will see..I hope it doesn't stop there, this entire roster need to be overhauled starting with Tyson Chandler(many here had as a leader)..Tyson was the first to throw Woodson under the bus and jump into the lifeboat saying me first...

Phil's era has begun...

Who would not like to see him go after his horrid coaching in the playoffs. Every single playoff series I considered the Knicks to be at a disadvantage with coaching.

Who did the Knicks lose to in the playoffs that they should not have lost to?

I notice you did not address what I said but instead asked another question. So I wonder if you agree or disagree with my statement. Do you think Woody was a good coach in the playoffs? Do you think in any of our playoff series we had the advantage at the coaching position?


It ultimately comes down to the players on the court..In the NBA, it's all about the horses...If the games aren't close then you really don't see what difference a coach makes...I think coaching matters in terms of philosophy and the way a team approach playing, it's not an individual game thing...I don't think the games or the series were close where individual play calls and substitutions matter...We were clearly over matched on the court against Indy and Miami..

jackson is going to institute what he has called "system basketball." he is going to hire a coach that will be able to implement that system, and he will likely surround that coach with cheap veterans on the cusp of retirement that will help teach that system while also being a locker room stabilizing and pacifying presence. further, jackson will likely be looking to trade erratic and/or selfish players who he deems unfit to be coached or taught.

given your peculiar ethos and leanings i am afraid that you are not going to enjoy this edition of the knicks.

Well for me, it's never about the coaches or a system but about the talent on the court...All Jackson disciples has failed implementing his system..Phil Jackson is/was the talent not the triagle...Riley and Pop has a very distinguished coaching tree in the NBA, Phil has zero...Maybe he is trying to change that...I hope not at our expense...First up we signed a guy that was smoking crack a year ago...I stopped drinking the kool-aid after that...

never was a fan of odom's game but he has more value than chris smith. jackson is giving him a hand up and it may pay off and if it doesn't odom and his cheap short contract is gone.

jordan's pre-triangle teams struggled against the pistons if i recall. they started clicking once they got better players-- that is true-- but you have to give some credit to the triangle too for the dynastic success of chicago and los angeles. it probably acted as a force for cohesion and allowed role players to excel, something that jackson alluded to in the early interviews. it also allowed the players the opportunity to figure things out for themselves, something any holzman era knick fan should appreciate.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
SupremeCommander
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4/21/2014  1:51 PM
holy **** - Herb got fired?!?
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
holfresh
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4/21/2014  1:52 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/21/2014  1:57 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Clean wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Clean wrote:
holfresh wrote:I get it, when a team like the Knicks miss the playoffs with a 37 win season, then heads should roll...I'll say this tho, Woodson got a raw deal...I'm a little surprised many here who saw the results with Woody as head coach are so happy to see him go..Interesting...

Many here are already endorsing the triangle like it was handed down from Noah during the great flood(bootleg alert, Lupica)...We will see..I hope it doesn't stop there, this entire roster need to be overhauled starting with Tyson Chandler(many here had as a leader)..Tyson was the first to throw Woodson under the bus and jump into the lifeboat saying me first...

Phil's era has begun...

Who would not like to see him go after his horrid coaching in the playoffs. Every single playoff series I considered the Knicks to be at a disadvantage with coaching.

Who did the Knicks lose to in the playoffs that they should not have lost to?

I notice you did not address what I said but instead asked another question. So I wonder if you agree or disagree with my statement. Do you think Woody was a good coach in the playoffs? Do you think in any of our playoff series we had the advantage at the coaching position?


It ultimately comes down to the players on the court..In the NBA, it's all about the horses...If the games aren't close then you really don't see what difference a coach makes...I think coaching matters in terms of philosophy and the way a team approach playing, it's not an individual game thing...I don't think the games or the series were close where individual play calls and substitutions matter...We were clearly over matched on the court against Indy and Miami..

jackson is going to institute what he has called "system basketball." he is going to hire a coach that will be able to implement that system, and he will likely surround that coach with cheap veterans on the cusp of retirement that will help teach that system while also being a locker room stabilizing and pacifying presence. further, jackson will likely be looking to trade erratic and/or selfish players who he deems unfit to be coached or taught.

given your peculiar ethos and leanings i am afraid that you are not going to enjoy this edition of the knicks.

Well for me, it's never about the coaches or a system but about the talent on the court...All Jackson disciples has failed implementing his system..Phil Jackson is/was the talent not the triagle...Riley and Pop has a very distinguished coaching tree in the NBA, Phil has zero...Maybe he is trying to change that...I hope not at our expense...First up we signed a guy that was smoking crack a year ago...I stopped drinking the kool-aid after that...

never was a fan of odom's game but he has more value than chris smith. jackson is giving him a hand up and it may pay off and if it doesn't odom and his cheap short contract is gone.

jordan's pre-triangle teams struggled against the pistons if i recall. they started clicking once they got better players-- that is true-- but you have to give some credit to the triangle too for the dynastic success of chicago and los angeles. it probably acted as a force for cohesion and allowed role players to excel, something that jackson alluded to in the early interviews. it also allowed the players the opportunity to figure things out for themselves, something any holzman era knick fan should appreciate.

I think we can all agree the both Chicago and the Lakers had the talent to be the great teams they turned out to be..Do you think if Riley or Larry Brown were coaching them the results would have been different, I don't...I credit Phil Jackson as a great communicator and a great coach more than I credit the system...Phil knew what buttons to push to get the best out of his players...That doesn't occur because of a system...I think the mental game trumps any other game in the NBA, given you put in the hard work..Look at the Pacers, do u think the system they run is any different than last year??...

Pistons had a great coach and a great team..Played great defense and was deep...They could have won more if Isiah weren't so hurt..

Nalod
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4/21/2014  4:05 PM
Phil does not have that tree like Larry, Pitino and Riles does but that might be a philosophical culture that "Just" a coach cannot change.

Krause in Chicago gets huge credit to take a chance on phil and the approach to a reluctant Jordan who had to learn to trust the system. Melo was all in on MDA ball but did not commit to it.

Melo if he wants has another opportunity. This is different as "The mentorship" will include a coach, and the players to buy in and trust thru the tough times that it will work. There will be hard times! Always is with a new system.

As discussed, Rambis took the wrong job in Minny.

Cleamons was the head coach in Dallas after his run in Chicago. The team was sold as soon as he got there and its easy to see it was an impossible situation for him:

Via Wikipedia

The 1996–97 season was a year of transition for the Mavericks, as they basically re-designed their entire team; 27 different players saw action for this Dallas team, setting an all-time NBA record. By the time the season was over, only rookie forward Samaki Walker remained from the opening-day roster. The first big move came in December, as Jason Kidd, Loren Meyer and Tony Dumas were traded to the Phoenix Suns for guards Michael Finley and Sam Cassell and forward A. C. Green. By far the most important of these acquisitions was Finley who, after his first half-season in Dallas, would go on to average over or near 20 ppg for at least the next seven years of his Mavericks career. He made two visits to the NBA All-Star Game, and even played in each of the Mavs' games until the 2004–05 season.

Don Nelson was hired as Dallas' general manager on February 7, and it didn't take him long to leave his own mark on the team. Within a week of his hiring, the Mavs had released Fred Roberts and Oliver Miller and traded Jamal Mashburn to the Miami Heat for forwards Kurt Thomas and Martin Müürsepp and guard Sasha Danilović. This particular trade didn't really pan out for the Mavs. Thomas did not play in 1996–97, and only ended up playing in five games as a Maverick before signing as a free agent with the New York Knicks. Danilović played in 13 games for the Mavs before opting out of his contract and signing with Bucker Bologna of the Italian League, and Müürsepp played in 73 games for the Mavericks over the next two years before leaving the NBA.

Chris Gatling was the Mavericks' sole representative in the NBA All-Star Game, but he did not last much longer in Dallas. In one of the largest two-team trades in NBA history, the Mavericks traded Chris Gatling, Jim Jackson, Sam Cassell, George McCloud and Eric Montross to the New Jersey Nets for 7'6" center Shawn Bradley, forward Ed O'Bannon and guards Khalid Reeves and Robert Pack. Nelson claimed the trades were necessary because the situation in the locker room was unacceptable. However, whereas Cassell went on to become a consistent floor leader and Jackson, Gatling and McCloud all continued to be solid contributors to their teams for several more years, only Bradley lasted any sort of time in Dallas and would spend part of the next eight years putting up modest contributions for the Mavs and giving them solid numbers in terms of blocked shots.

Undrafted rookie guard Erick Strickland was a pleasant surprise for the Mavs as he averaged 10.6 ppg. He, along with Finley and Bradley, were expected to be the core of this new Mavericks team. The constant changes made it impossible to establish any sort of team chemistry in 1996–97, and the Mavericks finished 24–58. But they had acquired some of the pieces that would help them start to turn things around in years to come. In 1997–98, despite a poor record of 20–62, Dallas had a knack for giving some of the NBA's elite teams a hard time, as they beat the Seattle SuperSonics, New York Knicks, Indiana Pacers and Chicago Bulls. Against the Bulls, Dallas went on a 17–2 run to force overtime, where they won 104–97. Midway through that season, Nelson fired Cleamons and named himself head coach.

Cleamons could be the man to be top assistant. He is an assistant with Milwaukee and with new ownership coming there it might be a good situation for him to Join with Phil.

They traded Clyde to the Cav's for him many moons ago!

At age 64 he might not want the top coaching job. Althought I hear it pays pretty good!

93BUICK
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4/21/2014  4:16 PM
Curse of Herb ends on 4/20 how about that?
If you are still following the team and reading sites like this, there is nothing, short of your own demise, that is going to throw you off this train.
TheGame
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4/21/2014  4:19 PM
93BUICK wrote:Curse of Herb ends on 4/20 how about that?

Herb will be back. Bank on it. Even if he is just the assistant to an assistant coach, he will be back with the Knicks next year and sitting on the bench.

Trust the Process
gunsnewing
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4/21/2014  4:29 PM
I can definitely see Clyde getting behind the behind the branch as an assistant now that Phil is here. He already alluded to the possibility. The thought of Clyde working on our perimeter defense and all the other fundamental he points out that players today fail to grasp. The thought of him and Phil instilling Red's principles and handprint all over this organization. Clyde's done tv for so long he would welcome the change and challenge I would think.

Brendan Brown(Hubie's son)would take over as led tv analyst and he is excellent

Nalod
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4/21/2014  5:40 PM
gunsnewing wrote:I can definitely see Clyde getting behind the behind the branch as an assistant now that Phil is here. He already alluded to the possibility. The thought of Clyde working on our perimeter defense and all the other fundamental he points out that players today fail to grasp. The thought of him and Phil instilling Red's principles and handprint all over this organization. Clyde's done tv for so long he would welcome the change and challenge I would think.

Brendan Brown(Hubie's son)would take over as led tv analyst and he is excellent

Really? Because they were buds 40 years ago?

Clyde never coached. Clyde talks. Clyde is 69 years old.

I see he don't work a full schedule, I see he is a restauranteur, Owns a B &B in the caribean so I don't see what you see.

You do know what an assistant coach does? They work big hours, do all the travel, do lots of preparation even in the off season.

I can see him being a guest from time to time, but that might have happened many times over the years without it being a media event. Clyde comes in talks about ball movement, *****, rolls royce, playing defense......etc. Im sure most of the players have been to lots of camps, and heard many coaches talk. Clyde is great, My favorite all time KNick......But lets be real. Not every announcer is a great coach.

TheGame
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4/21/2014  5:48 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/21/2014  5:48 PM
Nalod wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I can definitely see Clyde getting behind the behind the branch as an assistant now that Phil is here. He already alluded to the possibility. The thought of Clyde working on our perimeter defense and all the other fundamental he points out that players today fail to grasp. The thought of him and Phil instilling Red's principles and handprint all over this organization. Clyde's done tv for so long he would welcome the change and challenge I would think.

Brendan Brown(Hubie's son)would take over as led tv analyst and he is excellent

Really? Because they were buds 40 years ago?

Clyde never coached. Clyde talks. Clyde is 69 years old.

I see he don't work a full schedule, I see he is a restauranteur, Owns a B &B in the caribean so I don't see what you see.

You do know what an assistant coach does? They work big hours, do all the travel, do lots of preparation even in the off season.

I can see him being a guest from time to time, but that might have happened many times over the years without it being a media event. Clyde comes in talks about ball movement, *****, rolls royce, playing defense......etc. Im sure most of the players have been to lots of camps, and heard many coaches talk. Clyde is great, My favorite all time KNick......But lets be real. Not every announcer is a great coach.

I tend to agree. I don't think Clyde is giving up his cushy announcing job to go work 12 hour days on a coaching staff. Clyde might act as a special consultant, but that is probably it.

Trust the Process
gunsnewing
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4/21/2014  5:51 PM
Yea you are right I'm a little giddy
CrushAlot
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4/21/2014  6:08 PM
Nalod wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I can definitely see Clyde getting behind the behind the branch as an assistant now that Phil is here. He already alluded to the possibility. The thought of Clyde working on our perimeter defense and all the other fundamental he points out that players today fail to grasp. The thought of him and Phil instilling Red's principles and handprint all over this organization. Clyde's done tv for so long he would welcome the change and challenge I would think.

Brendan Brown(Hubie's son)would take over as led tv analyst and he is excellent

Really? Because they were buds 40 years ago?

Clyde never coached. Clyde talks. Clyde is 69 years old.

I see he don't work a full schedule, I see he is a restauranteur, Owns a B &B in the caribean so I don't see what you see.

You do know what an assistant coach does? They work big hours, do all the travel, do lots of preparation even in the off season.

I can see him being a guest from time to time, but that might have happened many times over the years without it being a media event. Clyde comes in talks about ball movement, *****, rolls royce, playing defense......etc. Im sure most of the players have been to lots of camps, and heard many coaches talk. Clyde is great, My favorite all time KNick......But lets be real. Not every announcer is a great coach.

When Phil first got the job Clyde said if Phil went back to the bench to coach that he would be intrigued and consider taking an assistant's position if Phil asked him.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
gunsnewing
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4/21/2014  6:15 PM
He might've been kidding like Dolan asking if he could suit up. Tex winter was 90 something and on the bench with Phil up until recently. I don't think age is an issue but as was pointed out Clyde has an easy stress free job. Why leave? Unless he is bored. As far as the restaurant he is Clyde he does not need to be there 365 days a year
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4/21/2014  6:25 PM
smackeddog wrote:It's a horrible feeling when you lose your job and are cleaning out your desk, so I'm not going to gloat. It needed to happen, but he seemed to be a likeable guy. And his end record with us is impressive.

Papabear Says

Woody walks with 3.5 million and thats not bad to be unemployed.

Papabear
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4/21/2014  6:29 PM
gunsnewing wrote:He might've been kidding like Dolan asking if he could suit up. Tex winter was 90 something and on the bench with Phil up until recently. I don't think age is an issue but as was pointed out Clyde has an easy stress free job. Why leave? Unless he is bored. As far as the restaurant he is Clyde he does not need to be there 365 days a year
He wasn't kidding. Breen asked him during a game and he was very serious. I was surprised at how excited Clyde was with the hire and how much he respected Phil.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
gunsnewing
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4/21/2014  6:31 PM
You are probably right I don't remember his exact reaction
GustavBahler
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4/21/2014  6:34 PM
jrodmc wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:i wonder if 'coaching staff' includes herb? it'd be weird not seeing him on the team bench, not that he ever did anything anyway.. could give the fans the ability to chant 'we want herb' once again.

funny, that was my first question too.

Have to give Herb credit, he made a good living. That's about all I can say about his time on the bench.

Papabear
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4/21/2014  6:36 PM
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Clean wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Clean wrote:
holfresh wrote:I get it, when a team like the Knicks miss the playoffs with a 37 win season, then heads should roll...I'll say this tho, Woodson got a raw deal...I'm a little surprised many here who saw the results with Woody as head coach are so happy to see him go..Interesting...

Many here are already endorsing the triangle like it was handed down from Noah during the great flood(bootleg alert, Lupica)...We will see..I hope it doesn't stop there, this entire roster need to be overhauled starting with Tyson Chandler(many here had as a leader)..Tyson was the first to throw Woodson under the bus and jump into the lifeboat saying me first...

Phil's era has begun...

Who would not like to see him go after his horrid coaching in the playoffs. Every single playoff series I considered the Knicks to be at a disadvantage with coaching.

Who did the Knicks lose to in the playoffs that they should not have lost to?

I notice you did not address what I said but instead asked another question. So I wonder if you agree or disagree with my statement. Do you think Woody was a good coach in the playoffs? Do you think in any of our playoff series we had the advantage at the coaching position?


It ultimately comes down to the players on the court..In the NBA, it's all about the horses...If the games aren't close then you really don't see what difference a coach makes...I think coaching matters in terms of philosophy and the way a team approach playing, it's not an individual game thing...I don't think the games or the series were close where individual play calls and substitutions matter...We were clearly over matched on the court against Indy and Miami..

jackson is going to institute what he has called "system basketball." he is going to hire a coach that will be able to implement that system, and he will likely surround that coach with cheap veterans on the cusp of retirement that will help teach that system while also being a locker room stabilizing and pacifying presence. further, jackson will likely be looking to trade erratic and/or selfish players who he deems unfit to be coached or taught.

given your peculiar ethos and leanings i am afraid that you are not going to enjoy this edition of the knicks.

Well for me, it's never about the coaches or a system but about the talent on the court...All Jackson disciples has failed implementing his system..Phil Jackson is/was the talent not the triagle...Riley and Pop has a very distinguished coaching tree in the NBA, Phil has zero...Maybe he is trying to change that...I hope not at our expense...First up we signed a guy that was smoking crack a year ago...I stopped drinking the kool-aid after that...

never was a fan of odom's game but he has more value than chris smith. jackson is giving him a hand up and it may pay off and if it doesn't odom and his cheap short contract is gone.

jordan's pre-triangle teams struggled against the pistons if i recall. they started clicking once they got better players-- that is true-- but you have to give some credit to the triangle too for the dynastic success of chicago and los angeles. it probably acted as a force for cohesion and allowed role players to excel, something that jackson alluded to in the early interviews. it also allowed the players the opportunity to figure things out for themselves, something any holzman era knick fan should appreciate.

I think we can all agree the both Chicago and the Lakers had the talent to be the great teams they turned out to be..Do you think if Riley or Larry Brown were coaching them the results would have been different, I don't...I credit Phil Jackson as a great communicator and a great coach more than I credit the system...Phil knew what buttons to push to get the best out of his players...That doesn't occur because of a system...I think the mental game trumps any other game in the NBA, given you put in the hard work..Look at the Pacers, do u think the system they run is any different than last year??...

Pistons had a great coach and a great team..Played great defense and was deep...They could have won more if Isiah weren't so hurt..

Papabear Says

If Phil does not get talent in here he can use the triangle of the square box and it won't mean a thing. Remember Jordan was a great player and bad coach. Signing Melo is about Melo and you better believe Phil will be using kid gloves. And remember Kobe and Jordan were some of the biggest ball hogs in the game. So Phil Jackson have his hands full. He was never a GM before.

Papabear
gunsnewing
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4/21/2014  7:01 PM
That the problem. I don't know how you go about getting that Jordan and Kobe. I would've properly tanked 11yrs ago and tried to draft Lebron

I just want to be in it every year again like the 90s. Maybe we get lucky and go all the way

gunsnewing
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4/21/2014  10:12 PM
Hahaha on the day the entire Michael Jeffrey Woodson coaching staff is shown the door Beno frickin Udrih is lighting up the Thunder. Too funny
Coaching Staff Relieved of Duties

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