Red Holzman would not listen to any of them.

One piece does not make a team. Choose the wrong centerpiece and you pay a steep price.

misterearl wrote:News reporters and beat writers in New York hype Kevin Love because they have little understanding of building a cohesive roster. They promote headline and star power over strategy and good basketball.

Red Holzman would not listen to any of them.

One piece does not make a team. Choose the wrong centerpiece and you pay a steep price.

what centerpieces have the Knicks had to choose from before Melo? I guess we saw Houston, Marbury, and Curry and McDyess and those were obviously poor choices, but were there other choices? Aside from draft and hope?

If you have talent the challenge is to maximize its impact on the court. We got close last year with all the vets and shooters on this roster and Melo responded with a scoring title, 54 wins and 3rd in MVP votes.

One guy can steer the ship but its a team thing.

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:News reporters and beat writers in New York hype Kevin Love because they have little understanding of building a cohesive roster. They promote headline and star power over strategy and good basketball.

Red Holzman would not listen to any of them.

One piece does not make a team. Choose the wrong centerpiece and you pay a steep price.

agree with all but one word. Choice.

what centerpieces have the Knicks had to choose from before Melo? I guess we saw Houston, Marbury, and Curry and McDyess and those were obviously poor choices, but were there other choices? Aside from draft and hope?

If you have talent the challenge is to maximize its impact on the court. We got close last year with all the vets and shooters on this roster and Melo responded with a scoring title, 54 wins and 3rd in MVP votes.

One guy can steer the ship but its a team thing.

acquiring melo was a poor choice. dolan should have allowed walsh to pass on the deal and then wait to acquire a complete player.

Dk.. Is Amare a complete player? Just wondering as he's Walsh's trademart aquisition. Also Walsh had Joe Johnson targeted for MAX money. Is Joe a max player?

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:News reporters and beat writers in New York hype Kevin Love because they have little understanding of building a cohesive roster. They promote headline and star power over strategy and good basketball.

Red Holzman would not listen to any of them.

One piece does not make a team. Choose the wrong centerpiece and you pay a steep price.

agree with all but one word. Choice.

what centerpieces have the Knicks had to choose from before Melo? I guess we saw Houston, Marbury, and Curry and McDyess and those were obviously poor choices, but were there other choices? Aside from draft and hope?

If you have talent the challenge is to maximize its impact on the court. We got close last year with all the vets and shooters on this roster and Melo responded with a scoring title, 54 wins and 3rd in MVP votes.

One guy can steer the ship but its a team thing.

acquiring melo was a poor choice. dolan should have allowed walsh to pass on the deal and then wait to acquire a complete player.

in your incredibly narrow opinion which contradicts sportswriters, broadcasters and other career basketball people

Dk.. Is Amare a complete player? Just wondering as he's Walsh's trademart aquisition. Also Walsh had Joe Johnson targeted for MAX money. Is Joe a max player?

+10000000000000000000000000000000
Validate the Hate. You've heard it hear for the past 4 years. Which reminds me of a song....

Can't wait to hear how the hate can validate Stat and JJ Max.

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:News reporters and beat writers in New York hype Kevin Love because they have little understanding of building a cohesive roster. They promote headline and star power over strategy and good basketball.

Red Holzman would not listen to any of them.

One piece does not make a team. Choose the wrong centerpiece and you pay a steep price.

agree with all but one word. Choice.

what centerpieces have the Knicks had to choose from before Melo? I guess we saw Houston, Marbury, and Curry and McDyess and those were obviously poor choices, but were there other choices? Aside from draft and hope?

If you have talent the challenge is to maximize its impact on the court. We got close last year with all the vets and shooters on this roster and Melo responded with a scoring title, 54 wins and 3rd in MVP votes.

One guy can steer the ship but its a team thing.

acquiring melo was a poor choice. dolan should have allowed walsh to pass on the deal and then wait to acquire a complete player.

in your incredibly narrow opinion which contradicts sportswriters, broadcasters and other career basketball people

Dk.. Is Amare a complete player? Just wondering as he's Walsh's trademart aquisition. Also Walsh had Joe Johnson targeted for MAX money. Is Joe a max player?

neither are complete players. difference is that stat was acquired for money as a free agent. i have always advocated that if a team must acquire an incomplete or deeply flawed player that it be done only through free agency.

johnson is overpaid and it would have been a mistake to acquire him in a trade but as a free agent it would have been a manageable situation. the melo situation is unmanageable... or are you still in denial?

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:News reporters and beat writers in New York hype Kevin Love because they have little understanding of building a cohesive roster. They promote headline and star power over strategy and good basketball.

Red Holzman would not listen to any of them.

One piece does not make a team. Choose the wrong centerpiece and you pay a steep price.

agree with all but one word. Choice.

what centerpieces have the Knicks had to choose from before Melo? I guess we saw Houston, Marbury, and Curry and McDyess and those were obviously poor choices, but were there other choices? Aside from draft and hope?

If you have talent the challenge is to maximize its impact on the court. We got close last year with all the vets and shooters on this roster and Melo responded with a scoring title, 54 wins and 3rd in MVP votes.

One guy can steer the ship but its a team thing.

acquiring melo was a poor choice. dolan should have allowed walsh to pass on the deal and then wait to acquire a complete player.

in your incredibly narrow opinion which contradicts sportswriters, broadcasters and other career basketball people

Dk.. Is Amare a complete player? Just wondering as he's Walsh's trademart aquisition. Also Walsh had Joe Johnson targeted for MAX money. Is Joe a max player?

neither are complete players. difference is that stat was acquired for money as a free agent. i have always advocated that if a team must acquire an incomplete or deeply flawed player that it be done only through free agency.

johnson is overpaid and it would have been a mistake to acquire him in a trade but as a free agent it would have been a manageable situation. the melo situation is unmanageable... or are you still in denial?

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:News reporters and beat writers in New York hype Kevin Love because they have little understanding of building a cohesive roster. They promote headline and star power over strategy and good basketball.

Red Holzman would not listen to any of them.

One piece does not make a team. Choose the wrong centerpiece and you pay a steep price.

agree with all but one word. Choice.

what centerpieces have the Knicks had to choose from before Melo? I guess we saw Houston, Marbury, and Curry and McDyess and those were obviously poor choices, but were there other choices? Aside from draft and hope?

If you have talent the challenge is to maximize its impact on the court. We got close last year with all the vets and shooters on this roster and Melo responded with a scoring title, 54 wins and 3rd in MVP votes.

One guy can steer the ship but its a team thing.

acquiring melo was a poor choice. dolan should have allowed walsh to pass on the deal and then wait to acquire a complete player.

in your incredibly narrow opinion which contradicts sportswriters, broadcasters and other career basketball people

Dk.. Is Amare a complete player? Just wondering as he's Walsh's trademart aquisition. Also Walsh had Joe Johnson targeted for MAX money. Is Joe a max player?

neither are complete players. difference is that stat was acquired for money as a free agent. i have always advocated that if a team must acquire an incomplete or deeply flawed player that it be done only through free agency.

johnson is overpaid and it would have been a mistake to acquire him in a trade but as a free agent it would have been a manageable situation. the melo situation is unmanageable... or are you still in denial?

oh.. and your just wrong. Because STAT was NOT just aquired for money. So once again you show you have no clue. Last I checked we had a player on the roster who was just finishing his rookie contract, and coming off a 20/12/55%FGs season. His name was David Lee and would be looking pretty freakin awesome here around these parts no? Remember him? Know why he's not here? Because Walsh was bent on signing two max guys, so signing Amare here cost us David Lee (who was an all star). Still good there fella?

yeah i'm good. i liked lee, still do, but he is a bit overpaid nowadays. that said, stoudemire was acquired as a free agent, not in a trade for david lee, who the knicks did a sign and trade for turiaf, randolph, and azibuike.

but if you want to really twist reality-- as you have a penchant for-- and say the knicks traded lee for stat then my response is thatdavid lee is a deeply flawed player and it was a lateral move at best, albeit for a name that had more pizzazz to it at the time.

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:News reporters and beat writers in New York hype Kevin Love because they have little understanding of building a cohesive roster. They promote headline and star power over strategy and good basketball.

Red Holzman would not listen to any of them.

One piece does not make a team. Choose the wrong centerpiece and you pay a steep price.

agree with all but one word. Choice.

what centerpieces have the Knicks had to choose from before Melo? I guess we saw Houston, Marbury, and Curry and McDyess and those were obviously poor choices, but were there other choices? Aside from draft and hope?

If you have talent the challenge is to maximize its impact on the court. We got close last year with all the vets and shooters on this roster and Melo responded with a scoring title, 54 wins and 3rd in MVP votes.

One guy can steer the ship but its a team thing.

acquiring melo was a poor choice. dolan should have allowed walsh to pass on the deal and then wait to acquire a complete player.

in your incredibly narrow opinion which contradicts sportswriters, broadcasters and other career basketball people

Dk.. Is Amare a complete player? Just wondering as he's Walsh's trademart aquisition. Also Walsh had Joe Johnson targeted for MAX money. Is Joe a max player?

neither are complete players. difference is that stat was acquired for money as a free agent. i have always advocated that if a team must acquire an incomplete or deeply flawed player that it be done only through free agency.

johnson is overpaid and it would have been a mistake to acquire him in a trade but as a free agent it would have been a manageable situation. the melo situation is unmanageable... or are you still in denial?

total denial. Was the situation managable last year? Or did Melo create all these problems himself this year? Maybe go further back? Was Melo responsible for Eddie Curry situation? Marbury? Larry Brown? Im SURE you hold him responsible for not resigning Lin, including picks in a trade for Bargs, JRs weed suspension, the total drop in Felton's play.. hey, let not make this too easy for you to twist. Lets talk about this year vs last and you can assign blame to Melo and the Melo "situation" accordingly.

What one of these is a result of the "unmanagable Melo sitation" ?????

1) Felton's massive drop in play resulting in being written as the worst starting PG in the NBA
2) JR's weed suspension followed by 2 mos of 35% shooting after being 6th man of year last year
3) Trading a key shooter and including picks in a trade for Bargs
4) Shump's regression (how many scoreless games this year?)

Feel free to list other reason this team is 100x worse than last and assign blame to Melo accordingly. Lets have your list there mr. Im smarter than the folks who vote the ALL NBA team, at least once I realized they put Melo in front of Paul George... lets have it there Jerry West

felton's drop in play is due more to his personal issues than what melo has done, but melo's announcing before the season started that he wanted to test free agency is not going to inspire felton to play up to his full potential. it's one thing to do your job and another to show up to a lost cause 82 times.

jr smith is a clown. that's on him mostly but melo, being the non-leader, non-mentor, non-committal type of guy he is, doesn't help clowns become less clownish.

trading away copeland and novak was grunwald's responsibility, but woodson is a big factor there since he disliked both these players. that's on woodson and grunwald, not melo.

shump's regression has nothing to do with melo, except he sees the hypocrisy, cronyism, and favoritism and as a young man with i presume a conscience is adversly affected by the malaise and dysfunction of the franchise-- of which melo is a key contributor.

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:News reporters and beat writers in New York hype Kevin Love because they have little understanding of building a cohesive roster. They promote headline and star power over strategy and good basketball.

Red Holzman would not listen to any of them.

One piece does not make a team. Choose the wrong centerpiece and you pay a steep price.

agree with all but one word. Choice.

what centerpieces have the Knicks had to choose from before Melo? I guess we saw Houston, Marbury, and Curry and McDyess and those were obviously poor choices, but were there other choices? Aside from draft and hope?

If you have talent the challenge is to maximize its impact on the court. We got close last year with all the vets and shooters on this roster and Melo responded with a scoring title, 54 wins and 3rd in MVP votes.

One guy can steer the ship but its a team thing.

acquiring melo was a poor choice. dolan should have allowed walsh to pass on the deal and then wait to acquire a complete player.

in your incredibly narrow opinion which contradicts sportswriters, broadcasters and other career basketball people

Dk.. Is Amare a complete player? Just wondering as he's Walsh's trademart aquisition. Also Walsh had Joe Johnson targeted for MAX money. Is Joe a max player?

neither are complete players. difference is that stat was acquired for money as a free agent. i have always advocated that if a team must acquire an incomplete or deeply flawed player that it be done only through free agency.

johnson is overpaid and it would have been a mistake to acquire him in a trade but as a free agent it would have been a manageable situation. the melo situation is unmanageable... or are you still in denial?

total denial. Was the situation managable last year? Or did Melo create all these problems himself this year? Maybe go further back? Was Melo responsible for Eddie Curry situation? Marbury? Larry Brown? Im SURE you hold him responsible for not resigning Lin, including picks in a trade for Bargs, JRs weed suspension, the total drop in Felton's play.. hey, let not make this too easy for you to twist. Lets talk about this year vs last and you can assign blame to Melo and the Melo "situation" accordingly.

What one of these is a result of the "unmanagable Melo sitation" ?????

1) Felton's massive drop in play resulting in being written as the worst starting PG in the NBA
2) JR's weed suspension followed by 2 mos of 35% shooting after being 6th man of year last year
3) Trading a key shooter and including picks in a trade for Bargs
4) Shump's regression (how many scoreless games this year?)

Feel free to list other reason this team is 100x worse than last and assign blame to Melo accordingly. Lets have your list there mr. Im smarter than the folks who vote the ALL NBA team, at least once I realized they put Melo in front of Paul George... lets have it there Jerry West

felton's drop in play is due more to his personal issues than what melo has done, but melo's announcing before the season started that he wanted to test free agency is not going to inspire felton to play up to his full potential. it's one thing to do your job and another to show up to a lost cause 82 times.

jr smith is a clown. that's on him mostly but melo, being the non-leader, non-mentor, non-committal type of guy he is, doesn't help clowns become less clownish.

trading away copeland and novak was grunwald's responsibility, but woodson is a big factor there since he disliked both these players. that's on woodson and grunwald, not melo.

shump's regression has nothing to do with melo, except he sees the hypocrisy, cronyism, and favoritism and as a young man with i presume a conscience is adversly affected by the malaise and dysfunction of the franchise-- of which melo is a key contributor.

911, not Melo's fault directly, but hey, he's never made anything better around him, so...
Israeli/Palestinian situation, not really related to Melo, but he hasn't been able to really assist Stat in his dream to become a rabbi, so...

Malaise and dysfunction are almost always attributable to a guy logging 40 minutes a game, one of the top scorers in the league and one of the top 20 active HOF candidates in the league. Yeah, All-Stars are usually the first place to look for malaise and dysfunction when analyzing your team's regression factors.

Unreal.

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:News reporters and beat writers in New York hype Kevin Love because they have little understanding of building a cohesive roster. They promote headline and star power over strategy and good basketball.

Red Holzman would not listen to any of them.

One piece does not make a team. Choose the wrong centerpiece and you pay a steep price.

agree with all but one word. Choice.

what centerpieces have the Knicks had to choose from before Melo? I guess we saw Houston, Marbury, and Curry and McDyess and those were obviously poor choices, but were there other choices? Aside from draft and hope?

If you have talent the challenge is to maximize its impact on the court. We got close last year with all the vets and shooters on this roster and Melo responded with a scoring title, 54 wins and 3rd in MVP votes.

One guy can steer the ship but its a team thing.

acquiring melo was a poor choice. dolan should have allowed walsh to pass on the deal and then wait to acquire a complete player.

in your incredibly narrow opinion which contradicts sportswriters, broadcasters and other career basketball people

Dk.. Is Amare a complete player? Just wondering as he's Walsh's trademart aquisition. Also Walsh had Joe Johnson targeted for MAX money. Is Joe a max player?

+10000000000000000000000000000000
Validate the Hate. You've heard it hear for the past 4 years. Which reminds me of a song....

Can't wait to hear how the hate can validate Stat and JJ Max.

thats all it is. I was not impressed with the trade or Melo, but he's done his part since. He didnt gel with MDA, but since he's been a true max player. Did you catch the part where DK in great detail elaborates on why Gallo's contract is better than Melo's? That was good nugget

you don't seem to understand the difference between what you pay for something and the value it gives to you in return.

do you agree with what walsh said when he was still the gm here? he said "a player is good at one price and bad at another."

do you agree with what he said? a yes or no will suffice

if so, and as a principle, is it a sound one? a yes or no will suffice

bet you can't or won't answer yes or no. love to lose that bet, too.

holfresh wrote:As a side note, Walsh was targeting Joe Johnson and Steve Nash..So plan B after "the decision" was to rebuild the PHX roster 8 years later??

i prefer not dealing with conjecture but facts. that said, it comes down to whether these players are acquired as free agents. both are flawed and in nash's case old.

also lets remind ourselves that the overarching goal for walsh was to rebuild once he had cleaned up isaiah thomas's poopoo. this dolan allowed walsh to do. but that goal was vaporized the moment dolan took over and jerked the franchise off the rebuild track and onto the win-now track. it only made matters worse when he pushed walsh aside and brokered a horrible deal to have melo spearhead the win-now agenda that dolan created.

we are seeing the dismal consequences now and will likely endure for another season. the only way out of this mess is for melo to do the right thing and accept a 12-13 million dollar salary since rebuilding is out of the question for the foreseeable future.

or he can just walk and the knicks will be back to the same state in 2015 as they were in 2010.