CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Insane, Insane, these threads...You won't do what u are asking Melo to do..Play for $1.00..He has made generational money already..Tell that to the well over 50% of NBA players who are now broke..

so the reason why he should get max money is because you figure he is going to lose it all eventually?

LMAO nice work champ

Are u going to work tomorrow and ask for a paycut to help the company??

first of all i own. secondly my business has experienced significant growth and i have created a healthy work environment where personal and professional growth is also possible. translation: i am winning both as a businessman and mentor.

now, before you start yanking yourself with whatever weak sauce response you are going to make, lets be clear: you believe that dolan and melo are winners because they make tens of millions of dollars. you have stated this many many times now so everyone here knows what side of the bread is buttered for you in terms of the whole business of sport. yet the knicks are sickening when it comes to winning as a whole and having a healthy work environment where young people can develop as players and people.

dolan, thomas, warkentein, mills, houston, marbury, anthony, smith, and even woodson and grunwald simply disgust me. yet they make money so they are winners in your mind. i guess since brown and d'antoni made money here they too are winners? LMAO. oh i almost forgot: there's that nagging little detail, namely, that the whole purpose of sport is to win championships, titles.

i will repeat: carmelo anthony and james dolan both love money more than they hate losing. yes or no?????

it's a yes/no question champ!

my answer is "yes" and because it is "yes," that both dolan and anthony are hypocrites and losers.

Well if u own a business then you should know what the bottom line is..This is a business first and foremost ..Bron/Wade etc taking a paycut in a tax free state along with winning a Championship bring in endorsement dollars at a higher clip..It's a no brainer for them to make that move business wise..Everyone likes money even you..You aren't being altruistic owning a biz..You are being a hypocrite gunning after profits yourself and asking someone else to forgo it..

it's possible to both be profitable and help others become successful.

what about the yes/no question

It's a silly question..If you ask me if I want a Knick Championship in my lifetime or 10 mil, I'm taking the money..My answer Melo and Dolan doesn't matter because you have blinders on..I have no problem with an owner willing to spend all his money to win...Dolan is trying to do that...You just can't see it..He is misguided yes, but he wants to win...Dolan had it all arse backwards...He should have had Isiah rebuild it from scratch, Isiah could draft and knew talent..Donny and MDA turned out to be a horror show and we are here because of it..Dolan is trying..Dolan wants to make money too..

Melo wants to win too but wants his cash too..He will take a paycut but won't play for free as most of u fans want..U are not realistic..

wait are speaking as a fan or putting yourself in melo's shoes.

as a fan i would rather take 10 million than see the knicks win that is a no-brainer.

U still think Melo should take 11 mil per only??

ideally yes of course. however the situation will not be ideal and he should be negotiating a contract worth somewhere in the 13-14 million dollar range. if he hates losing more than he loves money then this is an acceptable figure, giving the knicks a better chance of bringing in decent talent.

The term hate losing more than money makes zero sense and one has nothing to do with the other..

it's not a term it's a phrase and the phrase is "hate losing more than love money." and there is nothing contradictory or "silly" about it. in fact dismissing it as "silly" is just a weak sauce way of avoiding the yes/no question.

does melo love money more than he hates losing?

and if the answer is "no" then how much should he ask to be compensated if he wants to win?

i say 13-14 million a year. anything more is self-defeating and therefore outrageous... and being self-defeating is something he is really good at.

so-- if you answer "no" then what is fair compensation if he is genuine in his desire to win a title?

please don't go the <crickets> route... it's a really bad look.

It's silly..U are making leaping assumptions that no one actually knows...Melo will take a pay cut to come back but does that mean he likes winning now??.It's silly...Your number that you think is an acceptable number is also outrageous...It does not mean you will win...What's the point of taking a pay cut if guys like Chandler gets overpaid..If we resigned Gallo, you know he was be making upwards of 14 mil...You might think he deserves every penny..

Look it, let's get real...Melo will take less to come back..That is not the important issue here at all..That will not be the driving factor for Melo to resign...The Knicks, no Dolan has to have a plan..And I can't blame Melo for this approach...He could take all that Dolan is willing to offer and run to the bank but he says he won't do that...What has to happen is a change of culture, a plan...No more goobers like MDA who isn't really a coach but a guy with a system having favorites like Gallo in here..No more Donnie stupid presentation to Bron that made us the laughing stock of the guys who thought they were in the running for Bron...No more overpaying for guys like Chandler to cover up a flawed coach approach to the game...No more Marbs having run of the Garden for his personal use...Let's run the Knicks like a first class organization and attract the players we need to win...If I was Melo and I'm taking a pay cut to stay, I need to know we are making the right moves to get us on a winning track...Thats the bottom line..This nonsense that went down over the last 10 years has to stop or I'm taking my show on the road...It can't continue...Chandler is making feaking 14 mil a year...Amare got 100 mil on bad knees and no one saying anything because they love MDA and Donnie...It has to stop....

So continue to cloud the real issue...Fire a few guys..Talk rebuild and "losing assets"..."Does he hate losing more than he loves of money"...Leave Dolan up to his same devises...

get real? wow. this is an insane post. first off what was melo's plan in coming here in the first place? there was no plan because he wanted money and he did not give a rat's ass how things ended up in new york as a result. that's always dolan's "plan" and between the two of them they shoulder almost all of the blame for failure. no, wait-- he recently admitted that it would take a few seasons to rebuild once he came. so he did have a plan. so the dude is either a feckless moron or a hypocrite, perhaps both. please put that in your pipe and smoke it cause the stuff u be doing now is a helluva drug. really all he has done is continue to promote the very culture u bemoan.

u don't ever want to admit that anthony is a huge part of the problem.

Wasn't the plan to team up with Amare??..Then they had space to add another piece at Chandler's salary..That was the plan to me..What if management was smart enough to add a PG instead of Chandler, might have been different...But this all went bad for u when Gallo wasn't in the plan, did it??

champ have u entered senescence? "the plan"?!? who's plan was that? yours? it sure wasn't walsh's. why did he retire-- because he was old and tired or because he was shoved aside in dolan's spooge-like impulse? he looks happy and healthy watching his pacers clobber pieces-of-crap teams like the knicks, don't he. if he was so old and tired and ready to retire then why did he end up prolonging his career in indiana? please try to live in reality. it was all dolan and melo and now they are going to enter a dance of death. hope you like their groove. he had no intention of trading for carmelo with anything more than expendables like chandler and curry. we had the nuggets over a farking barrel. dolan couldn't wait to interfere after two years of knuckle rapping by stern and at the earliest opportunity he stepped in to fark things up yet again... or have u not detected a pattern by now. if u haven't then shame on u.

Just to clarify regarding Walsh. He was in ny when bird built that team. The only guy on that roster that was brought in by Walsh is Mahini. Personally I prefer collision. But if Walsh is enjoying the pacers wins he is enjoying someone else's work. His time in ny did not go well. His plan was simplistic and every team he did business with took advantage of him. He hired the wrong coach and spent his tenure trying to make his hire not look like a mistake. Imagine if Mjax was hired. No way the Knicks don't go big in one of the best center drafts ever. Instead the Knicks took a guy that played the same position as Wilson chandler. Also, every year Walsh had a first round pick it was leaked who the Knicks were picking. Walsh was honorable, dignified and respected coming to ny. That doesn't mean he did a good job it certainly doesn't mean that while he was compromising the future of the and bird was building a team in indythat Walsh is deserving of credit while someone else was i the clock and he was working somewhere else.

the reason why bird hired him was because walsh "retired" from the knicks. now why did walsh "retire" from the knicks? and why did bird decide to hire walsh? out of pity? it couldn't be because bird actually values walsh's abilities now could it?

i have no problem agreeing that d'antoni was not the best choice for the knicks. that said, he became part of an actual plan. you can't build a team without a plan. prior to walsh the knicks had no plan. and on balance gallinari is better than chandler so i had no issues with that pick. better defender, better playmaker, better scorer, better decision-maker. if you want to play the injury game, fine... lopez has not been a model of endurance.

say what you will about walsh... but since he was not given an opportunity to finish his job and complete a plan-- thanks to dolan and carmelo-- nobody can assess the job he did. it is intellectually dishonest to assert otherwise.

You certainly can assess the job he did. If he doesn't get credit for Melo who was his signature player? Walsh actually had picks. Taking Gallo in a big man draft was a huge mistake. The Knicks could have had their center for decades. It also is at least a bit curious that Gallo was the son of D'Antoni's roommate when he played in Italy. The Hill draft was loaded with point guards and the Knicks were rolling with Duhon. How about taking Rautins over Stephenson. Rautins over anyone was a mistake. The guy wasn't getting drafted and again there are euro league connections between Rautin's father and the coach. Also, Rautins was old and slow for his position. Not sure what the logic was there. Maybe Hill was the coaches pick but he certainly didn't play or develop him on a team that wasn't competing for a playoff spot. No one has ever explained the logic of Hill not getting 10-15 minutes a night on team filled with marginal vets that had expiring deals. Is Amare Walsh's signature move? He moved out a lot of young talent, his teams lottery pick from 09 and a top 3 pick to clear cap space. If I am Walsh I hitch my wagon to Melo and try to put some distance from the uninsured max contract I gave Amare despite doctors saying there was only a limited number of years that Amare could play.

look did walsh get a chance to finish what he started? yes or no?

Yeah but he chose not to take a cut in pay which was smart. In regards to Walsh, my opinion was that Dolan chose him because he had a fondness for Isiah and would be open to Isiah being re-assigned and handled in a gentle manner not because he was the best guy for the job. Just my opinion but Dolan was extremely loyal to Isiah and was forced to hire someone by Stern. I think Dolan may have resented Walsh's fatherly manner in interactions and also resented being forced to hire him.

if dolan wanted walsh to remain he would have offered the same pay as before. but you don't seem willing to make the connection between dolan wresting the trade negotiations with denver on the one hand and the lowball offer he made to walsh. why?

Knicks included Moz. That was Dolan's part. If they don't Ujiri trades Melo to the Nets for the package they gave to get dwill. I thought this had been discussed enough.

you're being evasive by asserting your opinion about something you could not possibly know with certainty. i gave you two facts and asked why are you reluctant to make the connection. is there a connection? yes or no?

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Insane, Insane, these threads...You won't do what u are asking Melo to do..Play for $1.00..He has made generational money already..Tell that to the well over 50% of NBA players who are now broke..

so the reason why he should get max money is because you figure he is going to lose it all eventually?

LMAO nice work champ

Are u going to work tomorrow and ask for a paycut to help the company??

first of all i own. secondly my business has experienced significant growth and i have created a healthy work environment where personal and professional growth is also possible. translation: i am winning both as a businessman and mentor.

now, before you start yanking yourself with whatever weak sauce response you are going to make, lets be clear: you believe that dolan and melo are winners because they make tens of millions of dollars. you have stated this many many times now so everyone here knows what side of the bread is buttered for you in terms of the whole business of sport. yet the knicks are sickening when it comes to winning as a whole and having a healthy work environment where young people can develop as players and people.

dolan, thomas, warkentein, mills, houston, marbury, anthony, smith, and even woodson and grunwald simply disgust me. yet they make money so they are winners in your mind. i guess since brown and d'antoni made money here they too are winners? LMAO. oh i almost forgot: there's that nagging little detail, namely, that the whole purpose of sport is to win championships, titles.

i will repeat: carmelo anthony and james dolan both love money more than they hate losing. yes or no?????

it's a yes/no question champ!

my answer is "yes" and because it is "yes," that both dolan and anthony are hypocrites and losers.

Well if u own a business then you should know what the bottom line is..This is a business first and foremost ..Bron/Wade etc taking a paycut in a tax free state along with winning a Championship bring in endorsement dollars at a higher clip..It's a no brainer for them to make that move business wise..Everyone likes money even you..You aren't being altruistic owning a biz..You are being a hypocrite gunning after profits yourself and asking someone else to forgo it..

it's possible to both be profitable and help others become successful.

what about the yes/no question

It's a silly question..If you ask me if I want a Knick Championship in my lifetime or 10 mil, I'm taking the money..My answer Melo and Dolan doesn't matter because you have blinders on..I have no problem with an owner willing to spend all his money to win...Dolan is trying to do that...You just can't see it..He is misguided yes, but he wants to win...Dolan had it all arse backwards...He should have had Isiah rebuild it from scratch, Isiah could draft and knew talent..Donny and MDA turned out to be a horror show and we are here because of it..Dolan is trying..Dolan wants to make money too..

Melo wants to win too but wants his cash too..He will take a paycut but won't play for free as most of u fans want..U are not realistic..

wait are speaking as a fan or putting yourself in melo's shoes.

as a fan i would rather take 10 million than see the knicks win that is a no-brainer.

U still think Melo should take 11 mil per only??

ideally yes of course. however the situation will not be ideal and he should be negotiating a contract worth somewhere in the 13-14 million dollar range. if he hates losing more than he loves money then this is an acceptable figure, giving the knicks a better chance of bringing in decent talent.

The term hate losing more than money makes zero sense and one has nothing to do with the other..

it's not a term it's a phrase and the phrase is "hate losing more than love money." and there is nothing contradictory or "silly" about it. in fact dismissing it as "silly" is just a weak sauce way of avoiding the yes/no question.

does melo love money more than he hates losing?

and if the answer is "no" then how much should he ask to be compensated if he wants to win?

i say 13-14 million a year. anything more is self-defeating and therefore outrageous... and being self-defeating is something he is really good at.

so-- if you answer "no" then what is fair compensation if he is genuine in his desire to win a title?

please don't go the <crickets> route... it's a really bad look.

It's silly..U are making leaping assumptions that no one actually knows...Melo will take a pay cut to come back but does that mean he likes winning now??.It's silly...Your number that you think is an acceptable number is also outrageous...It does not mean you will win...What's the point of taking a pay cut if guys like Chandler gets overpaid..If we resigned Gallo, you know he was be making upwards of 14 mil...You might think he deserves every penny..

Look it, let's get real...Melo will take less to come back..That is not the important issue here at all..That will not be the driving factor for Melo to resign...The Knicks, no Dolan has to have a plan..And I can't blame Melo for this approach...He could take all that Dolan is willing to offer and run to the bank but he says he won't do that...What has to happen is a change of culture, a plan...No more goobers like MDA who isn't really a coach but a guy with a system having favorites like Gallo in here..No more Donnie stupid presentation to Bron that made us the laughing stock of the guys who thought they were in the running for Bron...No more overpaying for guys like Chandler to cover up a flawed coach approach to the game...No more Marbs having run of the Garden for his personal use...Let's run the Knicks like a first class organization and attract the players we need to win...If I was Melo and I'm taking a pay cut to stay, I need to know we are making the right moves to get us on a winning track...Thats the bottom line..This nonsense that went down over the last 10 years has to stop or I'm taking my show on the road...It can't continue...Chandler is making feaking 14 mil a year...Amare got 100 mil on bad knees and no one saying anything because they love MDA and Donnie...It has to stop....

So continue to cloud the real issue...Fire a few guys..Talk rebuild and "losing assets"..."Does he hate losing more than he loves of money"...Leave Dolan up to his same devises...

get real? wow. this is an insane post. first off what was melo's plan in coming here in the first place? there was no plan because he wanted money and he did not give a rat's ass how things ended up in new york as a result. that's always dolan's "plan" and between the two of them they shoulder almost all of the blame for failure. no, wait-- he recently admitted that it would take a few seasons to rebuild once he came. so he did have a plan. so the dude is either a feckless moron or a hypocrite, perhaps both. please put that in your pipe and smoke it cause the stuff u be doing now is a helluva drug. really all he has done is continue to promote the very culture u bemoan.

u don't ever want to admit that anthony is a huge part of the problem.

Wasn't the plan to team up with Amare??..Then they had space to add another piece at Chandler's salary..That was the plan to me..What if management was smart enough to add a PG instead of Chandler, might have been different...But this all went bad for u when Gallo wasn't in the plan, did it??

champ have u entered senescence? "the plan"?!? who's plan was that? yours? it sure wasn't walsh's. why did he retire-- because he was old and tired or because he was shoved aside in dolan's spooge-like impulse? he looks happy and healthy watching his pacers clobber pieces-of-crap teams like the knicks, don't he. if he was so old and tired and ready to retire then why did he end up prolonging his career in indiana? please try to live in reality. it was all dolan and melo and now they are going to enter a dance of death. hope you like their groove. he had no intention of trading for carmelo with anything more than expendables like chandler and curry. we had the nuggets over a farking barrel. dolan couldn't wait to interfere after two years of knuckle rapping by stern and at the earliest opportunity he stepped in to fark things up yet again... or have u not detected a pattern by now. if u haven't then shame on u.

Just to clarify regarding Walsh. He was in ny when bird built that team. The only guy on that roster that was brought in by Walsh is Mahini. Personally I prefer collision. But if Walsh is enjoying the pacers wins he is enjoying someone else's work. His time in ny did not go well. His plan was simplistic and every team he did business with took advantage of him. He hired the wrong coach and spent his tenure trying to make his hire not look like a mistake. Imagine if Mjax was hired. No way the Knicks don't go big in one of the best center drafts ever. Instead the Knicks took a guy that played the same position as Wilson chandler. Also, every year Walsh had a first round pick it was leaked who the Knicks were picking. Walsh was honorable, dignified and respected coming to ny. That doesn't mean he did a good job it certainly doesn't mean that while he was compromising the future of the and bird was building a team in indythat Walsh is deserving of credit while someone else was i the clock and he was working somewhere else.

the reason why bird hired him was because walsh "retired" from the knicks. now why did walsh "retire" from the knicks? and why did bird decide to hire walsh? out of pity? it couldn't be because bird actually values walsh's abilities now could it?

i have no problem agreeing that d'antoni was not the best choice for the knicks. that said, he became part of an actual plan. you can't build a team without a plan. prior to walsh the knicks had no plan. and on balance gallinari is better than chandler so i had no issues with that pick. better defender, better playmaker, better scorer, better decision-maker. if you want to play the injury game, fine... lopez has not been a model of endurance.

say what you will about walsh... but since he was not given an opportunity to finish his job and complete a plan-- thanks to dolan and carmelo-- nobody can assess the job he did. it is intellectually dishonest to assert otherwise.

You certainly can assess the job he did. If he doesn't get credit for Melo who was his signature player? Walsh actually had picks. Taking Gallo in a big man draft was a huge mistake. The Knicks could have had their center for decades. It also is at least a bit curious that Gallo was the son of D'Antoni's roommate when he played in Italy. The Hill draft was loaded with point guards and the Knicks were rolling with Duhon. How about taking Rautins over Stephenson. Rautins over anyone was a mistake. The guy wasn't getting drafted and again there are euro league connections between Rautin's father and the coach. Also, Rautins was old and slow for his position. Not sure what the logic was there. Maybe Hill was the coaches pick but he certainly didn't play or develop him on a team that wasn't competing for a playoff spot. No one has ever explained the logic of Hill not getting 10-15 minutes a night on team filled with marginal vets that had expiring deals. Is Amare Walsh's signature move? He moved out a lot of young talent, his teams lottery pick from 09 and a top 3 pick to clear cap space. If I am Walsh I hitch my wagon to Melo and try to put some distance from the uninsured max contract I gave Amare despite doctors saying there was only a limited number of years that Amare could play.

look did walsh get a chance to finish what he started? yes or no?

Yeah but he chose not to take a cut in pay which was smart. In regards to Walsh, my opinion was that Dolan chose him because he had a fondness for Isiah and would be open to Isiah being re-assigned and handled in a gentle manner not because he was the best guy for the job. Just my opinion but Dolan was extremely loyal to Isiah and was forced to hire someone by Stern. I think Dolan may have resented Walsh's fatherly manner in interactions and also resented being forced to hire him.

if dolan wanted walsh to remain he would have offered the same pay as before. but you don't seem willing to make the connection between dolan wresting the trade negotiations with denver on the one hand and the lowball offer he made to walsh. why?

Knicks included Moz. That was Dolan's part. If they don't Ujiri trades Melo to the Nets for the package they gave to get dwill. I thought this had been discussed enough.

you're being evasive by asserting your opinion about something you could not possibly know with certainty. i gave you two facts and asked why are you reluctant to make the connection. is there a connection? yes or no?

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Insane, Insane, these threads...You won't do what u are asking Melo to do..Play for $1.00..He has made generational money already..Tell that to the well over 50% of NBA players who are now broke..

so the reason why he should get max money is because you figure he is going to lose it all eventually?

LMAO nice work champ

Are u going to work tomorrow and ask for a paycut to help the company??

first of all i own. secondly my business has experienced significant growth and i have created a healthy work environment where personal and professional growth is also possible. translation: i am winning both as a businessman and mentor.

now, before you start yanking yourself with whatever weak sauce response you are going to make, lets be clear: you believe that dolan and melo are winners because they make tens of millions of dollars. you have stated this many many times now so everyone here knows what side of the bread is buttered for you in terms of the whole business of sport. yet the knicks are sickening when it comes to winning as a whole and having a healthy work environment where young people can develop as players and people.

dolan, thomas, warkentein, mills, houston, marbury, anthony, smith, and even woodson and grunwald simply disgust me. yet they make money so they are winners in your mind. i guess since brown and d'antoni made money here they too are winners? LMAO. oh i almost forgot: there's that nagging little detail, namely, that the whole purpose of sport is to win championships, titles.

i will repeat: carmelo anthony and james dolan both love money more than they hate losing. yes or no?????

it's a yes/no question champ!

my answer is "yes" and because it is "yes," that both dolan and anthony are hypocrites and losers.

Well if u own a business then you should know what the bottom line is..This is a business first and foremost ..Bron/Wade etc taking a paycut in a tax free state along with winning a Championship bring in endorsement dollars at a higher clip..It's a no brainer for them to make that move business wise..Everyone likes money even you..You aren't being altruistic owning a biz..You are being a hypocrite gunning after profits yourself and asking someone else to forgo it..

it's possible to both be profitable and help others become successful.

what about the yes/no question

It's a silly question..If you ask me if I want a Knick Championship in my lifetime or 10 mil, I'm taking the money..My answer Melo and Dolan doesn't matter because you have blinders on..I have no problem with an owner willing to spend all his money to win...Dolan is trying to do that...You just can't see it..He is misguided yes, but he wants to win...Dolan had it all arse backwards...He should have had Isiah rebuild it from scratch, Isiah could draft and knew talent..Donny and MDA turned out to be a horror show and we are here because of it..Dolan is trying..Dolan wants to make money too..

Melo wants to win too but wants his cash too..He will take a paycut but won't play for free as most of u fans want..U are not realistic..

wait are speaking as a fan or putting yourself in melo's shoes.

as a fan i would rather take 10 million than see the knicks win that is a no-brainer.

U still think Melo should take 11 mil per only??

ideally yes of course. however the situation will not be ideal and he should be negotiating a contract worth somewhere in the 13-14 million dollar range. if he hates losing more than he loves money then this is an acceptable figure, giving the knicks a better chance of bringing in decent talent.

The term hate losing more than money makes zero sense and one has nothing to do with the other..

it's not a term it's a phrase and the phrase is "hate losing more than love money." and there is nothing contradictory or "silly" about it. in fact dismissing it as "silly" is just a weak sauce way of avoiding the yes/no question.

does melo love money more than he hates losing?

and if the answer is "no" then how much should he ask to be compensated if he wants to win?

i say 13-14 million a year. anything more is self-defeating and therefore outrageous... and being self-defeating is something he is really good at.

so-- if you answer "no" then what is fair compensation if he is genuine in his desire to win a title?

please don't go the <crickets> route... it's a really bad look.

It's silly..U are making leaping assumptions that no one actually knows...Melo will take a pay cut to come back but does that mean he likes winning now??.It's silly...Your number that you think is an acceptable number is also outrageous...It does not mean you will win...What's the point of taking a pay cut if guys like Chandler gets overpaid..If we resigned Gallo, you know he was be making upwards of 14 mil...You might think he deserves every penny..

Look it, let's get real...Melo will take less to come back..That is not the important issue here at all..That will not be the driving factor for Melo to resign...The Knicks, no Dolan has to have a plan..And I can't blame Melo for this approach...He could take all that Dolan is willing to offer and run to the bank but he says he won't do that...What has to happen is a change of culture, a plan...No more goobers like MDA who isn't really a coach but a guy with a system having favorites like Gallo in here..No more Donnie stupid presentation to Bron that made us the laughing stock of the guys who thought they were in the running for Bron...No more overpaying for guys like Chandler to cover up a flawed coach approach to the game...No more Marbs having run of the Garden for his personal use...Let's run the Knicks like a first class organization and attract the players we need to win...If I was Melo and I'm taking a pay cut to stay, I need to know we are making the right moves to get us on a winning track...Thats the bottom line..This nonsense that went down over the last 10 years has to stop or I'm taking my show on the road...It can't continue...Chandler is making feaking 14 mil a year...Amare got 100 mil on bad knees and no one saying anything because they love MDA and Donnie...It has to stop....

So continue to cloud the real issue...Fire a few guys..Talk rebuild and "losing assets"..."Does he hate losing more than he loves of money"...Leave Dolan up to his same devises...

get real? wow. this is an insane post. first off what was melo's plan in coming here in the first place? there was no plan because he wanted money and he did not give a rat's ass how things ended up in new york as a result. that's always dolan's "plan" and between the two of them they shoulder almost all of the blame for failure. no, wait-- he recently admitted that it would take a few seasons to rebuild once he came. so he did have a plan. so the dude is either a feckless moron or a hypocrite, perhaps both. please put that in your pipe and smoke it cause the stuff u be doing now is a helluva drug. really all he has done is continue to promote the very culture u bemoan.

u don't ever want to admit that anthony is a huge part of the problem.

Wasn't the plan to team up with Amare??..Then they had space to add another piece at Chandler's salary..That was the plan to me..What if management was smart enough to add a PG instead of Chandler, might have been different...But this all went bad for u when Gallo wasn't in the plan, did it??

champ have u entered senescence? "the plan"?!? who's plan was that? yours? it sure wasn't walsh's. why did he retire-- because he was old and tired or because he was shoved aside in dolan's spooge-like impulse? he looks happy and healthy watching his pacers clobber pieces-of-crap teams like the knicks, don't he. if he was so old and tired and ready to retire then why did he end up prolonging his career in indiana? please try to live in reality. it was all dolan and melo and now they are going to enter a dance of death. hope you like their groove. he had no intention of trading for carmelo with anything more than expendables like chandler and curry. we had the nuggets over a farking barrel. dolan couldn't wait to interfere after two years of knuckle rapping by stern and at the earliest opportunity he stepped in to fark things up yet again... or have u not detected a pattern by now. if u haven't then shame on u.

Just to clarify regarding Walsh. He was in ny when bird built that team. The only guy on that roster that was brought in by Walsh is Mahini. Personally I prefer collision. But if Walsh is enjoying the pacers wins he is enjoying someone else's work. His time in ny did not go well. His plan was simplistic and every team he did business with took advantage of him. He hired the wrong coach and spent his tenure trying to make his hire not look like a mistake. Imagine if Mjax was hired. No way the Knicks don't go big in one of the best center drafts ever. Instead the Knicks took a guy that played the same position as Wilson chandler. Also, every year Walsh had a first round pick it was leaked who the Knicks were picking. Walsh was honorable, dignified and respected coming to ny. That doesn't mean he did a good job it certainly doesn't mean that while he was compromising the future of the and bird was building a team in indythat Walsh is deserving of credit while someone else was i the clock and he was working somewhere else.

the reason why bird hired him was because walsh "retired" from the knicks. now why did walsh "retire" from the knicks? and why did bird decide to hire walsh? out of pity? it couldn't be because bird actually values walsh's abilities now could it?

i have no problem agreeing that d'antoni was not the best choice for the knicks. that said, he became part of an actual plan. you can't build a team without a plan. prior to walsh the knicks had no plan. and on balance gallinari is better than chandler so i had no issues with that pick. better defender, better playmaker, better scorer, better decision-maker. if you want to play the injury game, fine... lopez has not been a model of endurance.

say what you will about walsh... but since he was not given an opportunity to finish his job and complete a plan-- thanks to dolan and carmelo-- nobody can assess the job he did. it is intellectually dishonest to assert otherwise.

You certainly can assess the job he did. If he doesn't get credit for Melo who was his signature player? Walsh actually had picks. Taking Gallo in a big man draft was a huge mistake. The Knicks could have had their center for decades. It also is at least a bit curious that Gallo was the son of D'Antoni's roommate when he played in Italy. The Hill draft was loaded with point guards and the Knicks were rolling with Duhon. How about taking Rautins over Stephenson. Rautins over anyone was a mistake. The guy wasn't getting drafted and again there are euro league connections between Rautin's father and the coach. Also, Rautins was old and slow for his position. Not sure what the logic was there. Maybe Hill was the coaches pick but he certainly didn't play or develop him on a team that wasn't competing for a playoff spot. No one has ever explained the logic of Hill not getting 10-15 minutes a night on team filled with marginal vets that had expiring deals. Is Amare Walsh's signature move? He moved out a lot of young talent, his teams lottery pick from 09 and a top 3 pick to clear cap space. If I am Walsh I hitch my wagon to Melo and try to put some distance from the uninsured max contract I gave Amare despite doctors saying there was only a limited number of years that Amare could play.

look did walsh get a chance to finish what he started? yes or no?

Yeah but he chose not to take a cut in pay which was smart. In regards to Walsh, my opinion was that Dolan chose him because he had a fondness for Isiah and would be open to Isiah being re-assigned and handled in a gentle manner not because he was the best guy for the job. Just my opinion but Dolan was extremely loyal to Isiah and was forced to hire someone by Stern. I think Dolan may have resented Walsh's fatherly manner in interactions and also resented being forced to hire him.

if dolan wanted walsh to remain he would have offered the same pay as before. but you don't seem willing to make the connection between dolan wresting the trade negotiations with denver on the one hand and the lowball offer he made to walsh. why?

Knicks included Moz. That was Dolan's part. If they don't Ujiri trades Melo to the Nets for the package they gave to get dwill. I thought this had been discussed enough.

you're being evasive by asserting your opinion about something you could not possibly know with certainty. i gave you two facts and asked why are you reluctant to make the connection. is there a connection? yes or no?

Not my intention. But since we are going there I asked you what Walsh's signarure move was. Still waiting for that answer.

i can't speak directly to your question of "signature move" because he did not get the opportunity to finish his work here. if he "buckled" over mozgov then he reached a point beyond which it was imprudent to go any further. dolan is not about prudence. he is about impulsiveness and impetuousness and big names no matter the cost.

so far as grading his work, however:

1) it was a mistake to hire d'antoni but i don't agree that every subsequent move was made to cover that mistake. that is a ludicrous assertion
2) he had a two-year plan to clear out the garbage contracts on the roster. he did a great job to position the knicks for lbj. i had no use for two black holes like crawford and randolph. they did not fit d'antoni's system in the least so i had no problem getting them traded for what i believe were shorter contracts.
3) i like gallinari's game and i had no problem with that pick. solid starter on a title contender. advanced stat player and superior to chandler. d'antoni teams don't need low post players like lopez-- see randolph in point 2.
4) drafting jordan hill was a mistake. we needed a point guard and ty lawson was available that draft if memory serves. while not an ideal halfcourt orchestrator he can push the ball. walsh's thinking was acquiring someone to back up stoudemire, i think. still a mistake.
5) i liked the position the knicks were in for the 2010-2011 season even if i did not like felton. walsh did a very smart thing with felton. he gave felton a two-year contract for very little money, knowing in advance that he was a scrub. he can't orchestrate worth a damn and this made the knicks less than what they could have been had walsh gotten a starting-caliber point guard like ty lawson. but by the middle of his second year chris paul would be finishing his contract. there was a plan.
6) we also had all the leverage when it came time to look at anthony. walsh's mantra was "a player is good at one price and bad at another." the alternative of his going to the nets would have been acceptable since there was a chance to land chris paul the following season. this surely had to be in play during walsh's assessment of the trade possibilities. unfortunately he was not given a chance to fulfill his plan thanks to dolan's unwarranted meddling and agenda.

now tell me is there a connection between the meddling and the lowballing i asked about earlier? yes or no.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

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holfresh wrote:

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holfresh wrote:Insane, Insane, these threads...You won't do what u are asking Melo to do..Play for $1.00..He has made generational money already..Tell that to the well over 50% of NBA players who are now broke..

so the reason why he should get max money is because you figure he is going to lose it all eventually?

LMAO nice work champ

Are u going to work tomorrow and ask for a paycut to help the company??

first of all i own. secondly my business has experienced significant growth and i have created a healthy work environment where personal and professional growth is also possible. translation: i am winning both as a businessman and mentor.

now, before you start yanking yourself with whatever weak sauce response you are going to make, lets be clear: you believe that dolan and melo are winners because they make tens of millions of dollars. you have stated this many many times now so everyone here knows what side of the bread is buttered for you in terms of the whole business of sport. yet the knicks are sickening when it comes to winning as a whole and having a healthy work environment where young people can develop as players and people.

dolan, thomas, warkentein, mills, houston, marbury, anthony, smith, and even woodson and grunwald simply disgust me. yet they make money so they are winners in your mind. i guess since brown and d'antoni made money here they too are winners? LMAO. oh i almost forgot: there's that nagging little detail, namely, that the whole purpose of sport is to win championships, titles.

i will repeat: carmelo anthony and james dolan both love money more than they hate losing. yes or no?????

it's a yes/no question champ!

my answer is "yes" and because it is "yes," that both dolan and anthony are hypocrites and losers.

Well if u own a business then you should know what the bottom line is..This is a business first and foremost ..Bron/Wade etc taking a paycut in a tax free state along with winning a Championship bring in endorsement dollars at a higher clip..It's a no brainer for them to make that move business wise..Everyone likes money even you..You aren't being altruistic owning a biz..You are being a hypocrite gunning after profits yourself and asking someone else to forgo it..

it's possible to both be profitable and help others become successful.

what about the yes/no question

It's a silly question..If you ask me if I want a Knick Championship in my lifetime or 10 mil, I'm taking the money..My answer Melo and Dolan doesn't matter because you have blinders on..I have no problem with an owner willing to spend all his money to win...Dolan is trying to do that...You just can't see it..He is misguided yes, but he wants to win...Dolan had it all arse backwards...He should have had Isiah rebuild it from scratch, Isiah could draft and knew talent..Donny and MDA turned out to be a horror show and we are here because of it..Dolan is trying..Dolan wants to make money too..

Melo wants to win too but wants his cash too..He will take a paycut but won't play for free as most of u fans want..U are not realistic..

wait are speaking as a fan or putting yourself in melo's shoes.

as a fan i would rather take 10 million than see the knicks win that is a no-brainer.

U still think Melo should take 11 mil per only??

ideally yes of course. however the situation will not be ideal and he should be negotiating a contract worth somewhere in the 13-14 million dollar range. if he hates losing more than he loves money then this is an acceptable figure, giving the knicks a better chance of bringing in decent talent.

The term hate losing more than money makes zero sense and one has nothing to do with the other..

it's not a term it's a phrase and the phrase is "hate losing more than love money." and there is nothing contradictory or "silly" about it. in fact dismissing it as "silly" is just a weak sauce way of avoiding the yes/no question.

does melo love money more than he hates losing?

and if the answer is "no" then how much should he ask to be compensated if he wants to win?

i say 13-14 million a year. anything more is self-defeating and therefore outrageous... and being self-defeating is something he is really good at.

so-- if you answer "no" then what is fair compensation if he is genuine in his desire to win a title?

please don't go the <crickets> route... it's a really bad look.

It's silly..U are making leaping assumptions that no one actually knows...Melo will take a pay cut to come back but does that mean he likes winning now??.It's silly...Your number that you think is an acceptable number is also outrageous...It does not mean you will win...What's the point of taking a pay cut if guys like Chandler gets overpaid..If we resigned Gallo, you know he was be making upwards of 14 mil...You might think he deserves every penny..

Look it, let's get real...Melo will take less to come back..That is not the important issue here at all..That will not be the driving factor for Melo to resign...The Knicks, no Dolan has to have a plan..And I can't blame Melo for this approach...He could take all that Dolan is willing to offer and run to the bank but he says he won't do that...What has to happen is a change of culture, a plan...No more goobers like MDA who isn't really a coach but a guy with a system having favorites like Gallo in here..No more Donnie stupid presentation to Bron that made us the laughing stock of the guys who thought they were in the running for Bron...No more overpaying for guys like Chandler to cover up a flawed coach approach to the game...No more Marbs having run of the Garden for his personal use...Let's run the Knicks like a first class organization and attract the players we need to win...If I was Melo and I'm taking a pay cut to stay, I need to know we are making the right moves to get us on a winning track...Thats the bottom line..This nonsense that went down over the last 10 years has to stop or I'm taking my show on the road...It can't continue...Chandler is making feaking 14 mil a year...Amare got 100 mil on bad knees and no one saying anything because they love MDA and Donnie...It has to stop....

So continue to cloud the real issue...Fire a few guys..Talk rebuild and "losing assets"..."Does he hate losing more than he loves of money"...Leave Dolan up to his same devises...

get real? wow. this is an insane post. first off what was melo's plan in coming here in the first place? there was no plan because he wanted money and he did not give a rat's ass how things ended up in new york as a result. that's always dolan's "plan" and between the two of them they shoulder almost all of the blame for failure. no, wait-- he recently admitted that it would take a few seasons to rebuild once he came. so he did have a plan. so the dude is either a feckless moron or a hypocrite, perhaps both. please put that in your pipe and smoke it cause the stuff u be doing now is a helluva drug. really all he has done is continue to promote the very culture u bemoan.

u don't ever want to admit that anthony is a huge part of the problem.

Wasn't the plan to team up with Amare??..Then they had space to add another piece at Chandler's salary..That was the plan to me..What if management was smart enough to add a PG instead of Chandler, might have been different...But this all went bad for u when Gallo wasn't in the plan, did it??

champ have u entered senescence? "the plan"?!? who's plan was that? yours? it sure wasn't walsh's. why did he retire-- because he was old and tired or because he was shoved aside in dolan's spooge-like impulse? he looks happy and healthy watching his pacers clobber pieces-of-crap teams like the knicks, don't he. if he was so old and tired and ready to retire then why did he end up prolonging his career in indiana? please try to live in reality. it was all dolan and melo and now they are going to enter a dance of death. hope you like their groove. he had no intention of trading for carmelo with anything more than expendables like chandler and curry. we had the nuggets over a farking barrel. dolan couldn't wait to interfere after two years of knuckle rapping by stern and at the earliest opportunity he stepped in to fark things up yet again... or have u not detected a pattern by now. if u haven't then shame on u.

Just to clarify regarding Walsh. He was in ny when bird built that team. The only guy on that roster that was brought in by Walsh is Mahini. Personally I prefer collision. But if Walsh is enjoying the pacers wins he is enjoying someone else's work. His time in ny did not go well. His plan was simplistic and every team he did business with took advantage of him. He hired the wrong coach and spent his tenure trying to make his hire not look like a mistake. Imagine if Mjax was hired. No way the Knicks don't go big in one of the best center drafts ever. Instead the Knicks took a guy that played the same position as Wilson chandler. Also, every year Walsh had a first round pick it was leaked who the Knicks were picking. Walsh was honorable, dignified and respected coming to ny. That doesn't mean he did a good job it certainly doesn't mean that while he was compromising the future of the and bird was building a team in indythat Walsh is deserving of credit while someone else was i the clock and he was working somewhere else.

the reason why bird hired him was because walsh "retired" from the knicks. now why did walsh "retire" from the knicks? and why did bird decide to hire walsh? out of pity? it couldn't be because bird actually values walsh's abilities now could it?

i have no problem agreeing that d'antoni was not the best choice for the knicks. that said, he became part of an actual plan. you can't build a team without a plan. prior to walsh the knicks had no plan. and on balance gallinari is better than chandler so i had no issues with that pick. better defender, better playmaker, better scorer, better decision-maker. if you want to play the injury game, fine... lopez has not been a model of endurance.

say what you will about walsh... but since he was not given an opportunity to finish his job and complete a plan-- thanks to dolan and carmelo-- nobody can assess the job he did. it is intellectually dishonest to assert otherwise.

You certainly can assess the job he did. If he doesn't get credit for Melo who was his signature player? Walsh actually had picks. Taking Gallo in a big man draft was a huge mistake. The Knicks could have had their center for decades. It also is at least a bit curious that Gallo was the son of D'Antoni's roommate when he played in Italy. The Hill draft was loaded with point guards and the Knicks were rolling with Duhon. How about taking Rautins over Stephenson. Rautins over anyone was a mistake. The guy wasn't getting drafted and again there are euro league connections between Rautin's father and the coach. Also, Rautins was old and slow for his position. Not sure what the logic was there. Maybe Hill was the coaches pick but he certainly didn't play or develop him on a team that wasn't competing for a playoff spot. No one has ever explained the logic of Hill not getting 10-15 minutes a night on team filled with marginal vets that had expiring deals. Is Amare Walsh's signature move? He moved out a lot of young talent, his teams lottery pick from 09 and a top 3 pick to clear cap space. If I am Walsh I hitch my wagon to Melo and try to put some distance from the uninsured max contract I gave Amare despite doctors saying there was only a limited number of years that Amare could play.

look did walsh get a chance to finish what he started? yes or no?

Yeah but he chose not to take a cut in pay which was smart. In regards to Walsh, my opinion was that Dolan chose him because he had a fondness for Isiah and would be open to Isiah being re-assigned and handled in a gentle manner not because he was the best guy for the job. Just my opinion but Dolan was extremely loyal to Isiah and was forced to hire someone by Stern. I think Dolan may have resented Walsh's fatherly manner in interactions and also resented being forced to hire him.

if dolan wanted walsh to remain he would have offered the same pay as before. but you don't seem willing to make the connection between dolan wresting the trade negotiations with denver on the one hand and the lowball offer he made to walsh. why?

Knicks included Moz. That was Dolan's part. If they don't Ujiri trades Melo to the Nets for the package they gave to get dwill. I thought this had been discussed enough.

you're being evasive by asserting your opinion about something you could not possibly know with certainty. i gave you two facts and asked why are you reluctant to make the connection. is there a connection? yes or no?

Not my intention. But since we are going there I asked you what Walsh's signarure move was. Still waiting for that answer.

i can't speak directly to your question of "signature move" because he did not get the opportunity to finish his work here. if he "buckled" over mozgov then he reached a point beyond which it was imprudent to go any further. dolan is not about prudence. he is about impulsiveness and impetuousness and big names no matter the cost.

so far as grading his work, however:

1) it was a mistake to hire d'antoni but i don't agree that every subsequent move was made to cover that mistake. that is a ludicrous assertion
2) he had a two-year plan to clear out the garbage contracts on the roster. he did a great job to position the knicks for lbj. i had no use for two black holes like crawford and randolph. they did not fit d'antoni's system in the least so i had no problem getting them traded for what i believe were shorter contracts.
3) i like gallinari's game and i had no problem with that pick. solid starter on a title contender. advanced stat player and superior to chandler. d'antoni teams don't need low post players like lopez-- see randolph in point 2.
4) drafting jordan hill was a mistake. we needed a point guard and ty lawson was available that draft if memory serves. while not an ideal halfcourt orchestrator he can push the ball. walsh's thinking was acquiring someone to back up stoudemire, i think. still a mistake.
5) i liked the position the knicks were in for the 2010-2011 season even if i did not like felton. walsh did a very smart thing with felton. he gave felton a two-year contract for very little money, knowing in advance that he was a scrub. he can't orchestrate worth a damn and this made the knicks less than what they could have been had walsh gotten a starting-caliber point guard like ty lawson. but by the middle of his second year chris paul would be finishing his contract. there was a plan.
6) we also had all the leverage when it came time to look at anthony. walsh's mantra was "a player is good at one price and bad at another." the alternative of his going to the nets would have been acceptable since there was a chance to land chris paul the following season. this surely had to be in play during walsh's assessment of the trade possibilities. unfortunately he was not given a chance to fulfill his plan thanks to dolan's unwarranted meddling and agenda.

now tell me is there a connection between the meddling and the lowballing i asked about earlier? yes or no.

H1AND1 wrote:DK: One thing, Jordan Hill was drafted two years before we got Stoudemore.

good catch you are right. it starting to get a bit foggy. anyway the larger point is that walsh should have grabbed lawson.

dk7th wrote:

if you are talking about Dolan pushing to get the melo trade done by including moz I think he did that. However, I think that was the right move. Not acquiring a 26 year old superstar because the final piece wanted is an undrafted rookie doesn't make sense in my opinion. Also, melo would be a net if the Knicks didnt get the deal done.

i know that's your thinking. i don't agree it was the right move and it is being amply proven that it was a terrible decision. second round annihilation and no room to maneuver going forward. too bad you can't say that about walsh and his plan since it was not given a chance to be fulfilled.

now answer the question: "now tell me is there a connection between the meddling and the lowballing i asked about earlier? yes or no."

GOOD POINTS DK.. while I liked the gallo pick and thought it was correct for the dantoni offense, I didn't like the Jordan hill pick at all.. with that said.. walsh was here to clear up a mess, give this team some direction, build up assets and give it a level of respectability in the front office.. mission accomplished until Dolan stepped in.. even with the botched pick in Jordan hill, we still after all was said and done, had gallo, chandler, moz, Amare, Picks and cap space to make moves... Walsh never got a chance to finish his work.. dolan stepped in and the rest.. well you can see the mess we have now...

RonRon wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Insane, Insane, these threads...You won't do what u are asking Melo to do..Play for $1.00..He has made generational money already..Tell that to the well over 50% of NBA players who are now broke..

so the reason why he should get max money is because you figure he is going to lose it all eventually?

LMAO nice work champ

Are u going to work tomorrow and ask for a paycut to help the company??

first of all i own. secondly my business has experienced significant growth and i have created a healthy work environment where personal and professional growth is also possible. translation: i am winning both as a businessman and mentor.

now, before you start yanking yourself with whatever weak sauce response you are going to make, lets be clear: you believe that dolan and melo are winners because they make tens of millions of dollars. you have stated this many many times now so everyone here knows what side of the bread is buttered for you in terms of the whole business of sport. yet the knicks are sickening when it comes to winning as a whole and having a healthy work environment where young people can develop as players and people.

dolan, thomas, warkentein, mills, houston, marbury, anthony, smith, and even woodson and grunwald simply disgust me. yet they make money so they are winners in your mind. i guess since brown and d'antoni made money here they too are winners? LMAO. oh i almost forgot: there's that nagging little detail, namely, that the whole purpose of sport is to win championships, titles.

i will repeat: carmelo anthony and james dolan both love money more than they hate losing. yes or no?????

it's a yes/no question champ!

my answer is "yes" and because it is "yes," that both dolan and anthony are hypocrites and losers.

Well if u own a business then you should know what the bottom line is..This is a business first and foremost ..Bron/Wade etc taking a paycut in a tax free state along with winning a Championship bring in endorsement dollars at a higher clip..It's a no brainer for them to make that move business wise..Everyone likes money even you..You aren't being altruistic owning a biz..You are being a hypocrite gunning after profits yourself and asking someone else to forgo it..

it's possible to both be profitable and help others become successful.

what about the yes/no question

It's a silly question..If you ask me if I want a Knick Championship in my lifetime or 10 mil, I'm taking the money..My answer Melo and Dolan doesn't matter because you have blinders on..I have no problem with an owner willing to spend all his money to win...Dolan is trying to do that...You just can't see it..He is misguided yes, but he wants to win...Dolan had it all arse backwards...He should have had Isiah rebuild it from scratch, Isiah could draft and knew talent..Donny and MDA turned out to be a horror show and we are here because of it..Dolan is trying..Dolan wants to make money too..

Melo wants to win too but wants his cash too..He will take a paycut but won't play for free as most of u fans want..U are not realistic..

wait are speaking as a fan or putting yourself in melo's shoes.

as a fan i would rather take 10 million than see the knicks win that is a no-brainer.

U still think Melo should take 11 mil per only??

ideally yes of course. however the situation will not be ideal and he should be negotiating a contract worth somewhere in the 13-14 million dollar range. if he hates losing more than he loves money then this is an acceptable figure, giving the knicks a better chance of bringing in decent talent.

The term hate losing more than money makes zero sense and one has nothing to do with the other..

it's not a term it's a phrase and the phrase is "hate losing more than love money." and there is nothing contradictory or "silly" about it. in fact dismissing it as "silly" is just a weak sauce way of avoiding the yes/no question.

does melo love money more than he hates losing?

and if the answer is "no" then how much should he ask to be compensated if he wants to win?

i say 13-14 million a year. anything more is self-defeating and therefore outrageous... and being self-defeating is something he is really good at.

so-- if you answer "no" then what is fair compensation if he is genuine in his desire to win a title?

please don't go the <crickets> route... it's a really bad look.

It's silly..U are making leaping assumptions that no one actually knows...Melo will take a pay cut to come back but does that mean he likes winning now??.It's silly...Your number that you think is an acceptable number is also outrageous...It does not mean you will win...What's the point of taking a pay cut if guys like Chandler gets overpaid..If we resigned Gallo, you know he was be making upwards of 14 mil...You might think he deserves every penny..

Look it, let's get real...Melo will take less to come back..That is not the important issue here at all..That will not be the driving factor for Melo to resign...The Knicks, no Dolan has to have a plan..And I can't blame Melo for this approach...He could take all that Dolan is willing to offer and run to the bank but he says he won't do that...What has to happen is a change of culture, a plan...No more goobers like MDA who isn't really a coach but a guy with a system having favorites like Gallo in here..No more Donnie stupid presentation to Bron that made us the laughing stock of the guys who thought they were in the running for Bron...No more overpaying for guys like Chandler to cover up a flawed coach approach to the game...No more Marbs having run of the Garden for his personal use...Let's run the Knicks like a first class organization and attract the players we need to win...If I was Melo and I'm taking a pay cut to stay, I need to know we are making the right moves to get us on a winning track...Thats the bottom line..This nonsense that went down over the last 10 years has to stop or I'm taking my show on the road...It can't continue...Chandler is making feaking 14 mil a year...Amare got 100 mil on bad knees and no one saying anything because they love MDA and Donnie...It has to stop....

So continue to cloud the real issue...Fire a few guys..Talk rebuild and "losing assets"..."Does he hate losing more than he loves of money"...Leave Dolan up to his same devises...

get real? wow. this is an insane post. first off what was melo's plan in coming here in the first place? there was no plan because he wanted money and he did not give a rat's ass how things ended up in new york as a result. that's always dolan's "plan" and between the two of them they shoulder almost all of the blame for failure. no, wait-- he recently admitted that it would take a few seasons to rebuild once he came. so he did have a plan. so the dude is either a feckless moron or a hypocrite, perhaps both. please put that in your pipe and smoke it cause the stuff u be doing now is a helluva drug. really all he has done is continue to promote the very culture u bemoan.

u don't ever want to admit that anthony is a huge part of the problem.

Wasn't the plan to team up with Amare??..Then they had space to add another piece at Chandler's salary..That was the plan to me..What if management was smart enough to add a PG instead of Chandler, might have been different...But this all went bad for u when Gallo wasn't in the plan, did it??

champ have u entered senescence? "the plan"?!? who's plan was that? yours? it sure wasn't walsh's. why did he retire-- because he was old and tired or because he was shoved aside in dolan's spooge-like impulse? he looks happy and healthy watching his pacers clobber pieces-of-crap teams like the knicks, don't he. if he was so old and tired and ready to retire then why did he end up prolonging his career in indiana? please try to live in reality. it was all dolan and melo and now they are going to enter a dance of death. hope you like their groove. he had no intention of trading for carmelo with anything more than expendables like chandler and curry. we had the nuggets over a farking barrel. dolan couldn't wait to interfere after two years of knuckle rapping by stern and at the earliest opportunity he stepped in to fark things up yet again... or have u not detected a pattern by now. if u haven't then shame on u.

Just to clarify regarding Walsh. He was in ny when bird built that team. The only guy on that roster that was brought in by Walsh is Mahini. Personally I prefer collision. But if Walsh is enjoying the pacers wins he is enjoying someone else's work. His time in ny did not go well. His plan was simplistic and every team he did business with took advantage of him. He hired the wrong coach and spent his tenure trying to make his hire not look like a mistake. Imagine if Mjax was hired. No way the Knicks don't go big in one of the best center drafts ever. Instead the Knicks took a guy that played the same position as Wilson chandler. Also, every year Walsh had a first round pick it was leaked who the Knicks were picking. Walsh was honorable, dignified and respected coming to ny. That doesn't mean he did a good job it certainly doesn't mean that while he was compromising the future of the and bird was building a team in indythat Walsh is deserving of credit while someone else was i the clock and he was working somewhere else.

the reason why bird hired him was because walsh "retired" from the knicks. now why did walsh "retire" from the knicks? and why did bird decide to hire walsh? out of pity? it couldn't be because bird actually values walsh's abilities now could it?

i have no problem agreeing that d'antoni was not the best choice for the knicks. that said, he became part of an actual plan. you can't build a team without a plan. prior to walsh the knicks had no plan. and on balance gallinari is better than chandler so i had no issues with that pick. better defender, better playmaker, better scorer, better decision-maker. if you want to play the injury game, fine... lopez has not been a model of endurance.

say what you will about walsh... but since he was not given an opportunity to finish his job and complete a plan-- thanks to dolan and carmelo-- nobody can assess the job he did. it is intellectually dishonest to assert otherwise.

You certainly can assess the job he did. If he doesn't get credit for Melo who was his signature player? Walsh actually had picks. Taking Gallo in a big man draft was a huge mistake. The Knicks could have had their center for decades. It also is at least a bit curious that Gallo was the son of D'Antoni's roommate when he played in Italy. The Hill draft was loaded with point guards and the Knicks were rolling with Duhon. How about taking Rautins over Stephenson. Rautins over anyone was a mistake. The guy wasn't getting drafted and again there are euro league connections between Rautin's father and the coach. Also, Rautins was old and slow for his position. Not sure what the logic was there. Maybe Hill was the coaches pick but he certainly didn't play or develop him on a team that wasn't competing for a playoff spot. No one has ever explained the logic of Hill not getting 10-15 minutes a night on team filled with marginal vets that had expiring deals. Is Amare Walsh's signature move? He moved out a lot of young talent, his teams lottery pick from 09 and a top 3 pick to clear cap space. If I am Walsh I hitch my wagon to Melo and try to put some distance from the uninsured max contract I gave Amare despite doctors saying there was only a limited number of years that Amare could play.

look did walsh get a chance to finish what he started? yes or no?

DK, there is no point in responding to some of the posters, especially HOLFRESH
HOLFRESH is Melo fan first, not a Knick's fan first, and will do post anything to defer the blame for CA's inabilities but promote his max salary
There is no logic to majority of his posts' and it will not chance.....

alau53 wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:DK: One thing, Jordan Hill was drafted two years before we got Stoudemore.

good catch you are right. it starting to get a bit foggy. anyway the larger point is that walsh should have grabbed lawson.

Agreed. He definitely whiffed not grabbing a PG.

The truly heartbreaking thing about that draft is that Steph Curry went #7, ie: One pick before Hill.

if knicks had drafted curry he would have been given up in the melo trade..i said knicks wont ever win with dolan in charge for over 15 yrs & i'm right

I was thinking the same thing...

dk7th wrote:

dk7th wrote:

if you are talking about Dolan pushing to get the melo trade done by including moz I think he did that. However, I think that was the right move. Not acquiring a 26 year old superstar because the final piece wanted is an undrafted rookie doesn't make sense in my opinion. Also, melo would be a net if the Knicks didnt get the deal done.

Crushalot i know that's your thinking. i don't agree it was the right move and it is being amply proven that it was a terrible decision. second round annihilation and no room to maneuver going forward. too bad you can't say that about walsh and his plan since it was not given a chance to be fulfilled.

now answer the question: "now tell me is there a connection between the meddling and the lowballing i asked about earlier? yes or no."

<crickets><crickets><crickets><crickets><crickets><crickets><crickets><crickets>

If u can't recognize/admit giving Amare 100 mil with bad knees and his subsequent breakdown was ultimately crippling to the organization then what's the point of these discussions really??..How do you continue to ask was Walsh giving the time to complete the job??

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

dk7th wrote:

if you are talking about Dolan pushing to get the melo trade done by including moz I think he did that. However, I think that was the right move. Not acquiring a 26 year old superstar because the final piece wanted is an undrafted rookie doesn't make sense in my opinion. Also, melo would be a net if the Knicks didnt get the deal done.

Crushalot i know that's your thinking. i don't agree it was the right move and it is being amply proven that it was a terrible decision. second round annihilation and no room to maneuver going forward. too bad you can't say that about walsh and his plan since it was not given a chance to be fulfilled.

now answer the question: "now tell me is there a connection between the meddling and the lowballing i asked about earlier? yes or no."

<crickets><crickets><crickets><crickets><crickets><crickets><crickets><crickets>

If u can't recognize/admit giving Amare 100 mil with bad knees and his subsequent breakdown was ultimately crippling to the organization then what's the point of these discussions really??..How do you continue to ask was Walsh giving the time to complete the job??

for the billionth time: we had a plan to clear room for lebron james and got jobbed by his collusion. is that walsh's fault? in your mind it is because you are in love with carmelo.

well now, after two years of enduring miserable roster flush, circumstances apparently dictated that we purchase the services of a free agent and that was stoudemire. there was nobody else at that juncture. would you have tolerated no acquisition at all? no need to lie-- you would not have, jiminey. this was driven by necessity not merely choice.

so stop the insanity. if you think stoudemire was a both a necessity and a mistake then what else can you say about trading for anthony?

Walsh was a GM, not a fan, so stop posting as if he was a victim fan in this. Walsh set a goal to quickly deconstruct the roster and clear cap space in order to sign Lebron. Only signing Lebron could justify how he was taken out to the woodshed and abused on some of those cap clearing trades. He did not land Lebron so he failed. It does not matter the reason that Lebron chose Miami.....Walsh still failed. He overpaid and signed Amare as a backup move to save face. Perhaps for a fan that is OK....but for a GM to panic and allocate that much cap space long term to a total medical risk is not OK. If Walsh had waited and nost signed Amare, he probably would have been fired......but the Knicks would have been better off long term and perhaps would have acquired CP3, Walsh was let go anyway.