blkexec wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Also what plan isn't vague as we don't know what Dolan and mills are thinking?

Thats exactly my point....It doesn't matter if Melo plays for pennies...We still have the same Management structure, with Dolan as the lead dog. So this team could still be surrounded by injury vets, regardless of how much we give Melo. If you want to really change something, you have to start from the top. But lets entertain how to build around Melo....

It's always hard to build around a gunner that plays SG, SF or PF. There's only a few elite players in the history of the game that was able to win a championship, without having a PG or Center as a dominate player. Melo is not on that level because his strongest skill is just on the offensive end...Eventhough he's working on other parts of his game, it should be clear to everybody that Melo is better when he only has to concentrate on scoring...aka 62 pts.

We need a top PG or Center or both to play with Melo.....The only exception is pairing him up with Lebron. Anything else will only get you in and out of the playoffs, wondering what we should do next.....Same story, different year!

So if I was the Knicks, I would load the team up with potential star caliber players at the PG and Center spot. Maybe spend most of your remaining funds on those two positions, and then find role players to fill in the rest. The other positions should be solid role players that understand how to play with a gunner like Melo. Not these wanna be Melo type of players (JR Smith). You can not have too many Melos / gunners on one team.....We need more balance. Need some Shane Battier or Bruce Bowen types....even David Lee....Players that don't need offensive plays to impact the game.

tkf wrote:

Dagger wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

SJUknicksfan wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:it was a good performance nothing more... his team is 11 games under .500 it is a reminder not to make this more than it is.. again I figured I would see these types of threads, would appear... but the next game I am sure will wake you guys up again.. a personal achievment for carmelo.. nothing more...

62 points and 0 assist don't impress me..

Um...62 points doesn't impress you? And he should get an assist for every time he was doubled last night which led to open shots.

no it doesn't not to the level of how you guys are impressed.. this league has seen guys drop 70+ and 80... I have seen guys like willie burton and tony delk drop 50+... it is no secret that at any point someone can have a hot, hot scoring night.. jamal crawford scoring 16 consecutive baskets.. impressed me.... 10 consecutive threes impress me..

Melo could've done this in 2 separate occasions last year. Woodson even admitted last night he messed up by pulling him and cooling him off. Guys like Tony Delk can do it once but not as often as guys like Jordan Kobe Lebron and Melo

ok guns then i guess you are expecting him to do this 4 or 5 more times this year.. and I don't want to hear about him not having help.. he did this without amare, kenyon, bargs.. etc.. you see how this argument becomes one of contradiction?

Guys like Tony Delk can do it once but not as often as guys like Jordan Kobe Lebron and Melo

ok guns I mentioned Allan Houston, And jamal crawford. they have done so multiple times.. I never seen any threads about building around them? and honestly we went to the finals with Houston....that would have been a more valid argument on his behalf..

I still think they should probably trade him but if you can't enjoy a night like last night why even follow the team? Honestly...

You want to talk about 0 assists? When you're shooting 66% percent on a high volume of shots assists do not matter at all. I notice you didn't mention the 13 rebounds...

I follow the nba... but watching someone take 30+ shots is not why I watch....again, I'm different. some guys like no hitters in baseball where the pitcher walks 7 batters..I much rather see a 20 strikeout game... 62 points nice, but that night is over and this team is still bad.... reality hits fast..

there was a lot of unusual scoring last night in the nba....

there was a lot of unusual scoring last night huh? that's your excuse to minimize Melo's achievement? Something was just in the air and it allowed him to score a lot, that's all it was. On what planet do you think this bullet point of yours has any merit? You've said it twice now, and even listed the players who had good nights last night...quite a limb you're out on there.

Funny that in the previous 5,000 Knicks games, not one Knicks player ever took advantage of an "unusual scoring night" to the same magnitude that Melo did last night.

Can there be a more blatant form of trolling than this? "Nothing to see here, aliens came down and made a bunch of people score a lot more than they ever could without their help"

IF you cant' respect the performance last night, you're not a real fan of the team, and you're not a rational person.

Marcala12 wrote:

playa2 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

playa2 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

playa2 wrote:If Kemba Walker played we would have had a much harder time winning because he makes his teammates better., Melo played focused, he only does that normally in the playoffs.

If Kemba Walker played and the game was close, Melo would have played the entire game and might have put up 75 last night.

Kemba would of had our defense(PG's) scrambling switching and that would have taken some of the energy out of the team. You forgot how bad our pg defense really is in one night. SMH

Papabear Says

Did you forget that we had stopped switching in the game. Look everyone gets hurt. Hey if Kobe was 100 percent and Pau also for the lakers they would have a better record. Stop trying to undercut what Melo did.

Not undercutting what Melo did, just not pumping up our pg's who can't stay in front of Kemba who breaks us down defensively and makes everyone use up energy trying to help them out including Melo. Did you watch the previous game against the CATS ?

got ya, it's because future first ballot HOF Kemba "superstar" Walker was out that Melo erupted in a way no Knick has ever done before. Forget that the knicks didn't have Kenyon, Amare, and Bargs...let's just focus on the one guy the team we played was missing.

Melo did what he did last night and it's done. What a joke that some people who think of themselves as Knicks fans' didn't actually enjoy the game, just sad and pathetic. It's the kind of game a non-hater could fondly talk about 30 years from now, but you haters deprived yourselves of it. That's on you, you dumb bastards.

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:

tkf wrote:let me ask this.. have you guys expectations of carmelo and this team risen because of last night.. because this thread is an indication of that..

What I bet you will find is that the outside perception of last nights game does not match that of the fanbase..

for example.. durant scores 54 points, he has been on a tremendous 10 game tear.. ESPN had a segment about durant seperating himself from lebron in the MVP race after that outburst..

you see the outside perception and expectations more than likely matches OKC fanbase expectations and perception.. they don't care that durant Draaaaaaags his team to the postseason, or that he wins another scoring title.. they expect to be in the finals.. they may care to a certain extent if he wins MVP, but that may come hand in hand with him getting to the finals..

so I ask again, has last night changed your expectations of carmelo and what he will do for our team, without having to place unnecessary blame on his teamates.

and another thing, for those who feel getting rid of carmelo, the knicks won't be able to score.. okc last night didn't have durant or westbrook and they scored 101 points... and please name their scorers.....

Papabear Says

TKF you can say anything do anything but it won't change the greatness of Melo's performance. This team is not bad because of Melo it's because of his supporting cast.

rofl... you came in this thread and all of your post are about me.. I guess you are consistent with your infatuation... either it's meloser or TKF... go figure

No I'm just trying to figure out why you have such a hat for Melo beyond basketball. The other part is you lie!!You Lie. You only put up stats that seem to be half truths. You said what Melo did the 62 points was no big deal because he had 0 assists. But you left out the 13 rebounds Thats what you do. You are a fake and a phony.

tkf wrote:

Dagger wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

SJUknicksfan wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:it was a good performance nothing more... his team is 11 games under .500 it is a reminder not to make this more than it is.. again I figured I would see these types of threads, would appear... but the next game I am sure will wake you guys up again.. a personal achievment for carmelo.. nothing more...

62 points and 0 assist don't impress me..

Um...62 points doesn't impress you? And he should get an assist for every time he was doubled last night which led to open shots.

no it doesn't not to the level of how you guys are impressed.. this league has seen guys drop 70+ and 80... I have seen guys like willie burton and tony delk drop 50+... it is no secret that at any point someone can have a hot, hot scoring night.. jamal crawford scoring 16 consecutive baskets.. impressed me.... 10 consecutive threes impress me..

Melo could've done this in 2 separate occasions last year. Woodson even admitted last night he messed up by pulling him and cooling him off. Guys like Tony Delk can do it once but not as often as guys like Jordan Kobe Lebron and Melo

ok guns then i guess you are expecting him to do this 4 or 5 more times this year.. and I don't want to hear about him not having help.. he did this without amare, kenyon, bargs.. etc.. you see how this argument becomes one of contradiction?

Guys like Tony Delk can do it once but not as often as guys like Jordan Kobe Lebron and Melo

ok guns I mentioned Allan Houston, And jamal crawford. they have done so multiple times.. I never seen any threads about building around them? and honestly we went to the finals with Houston....that would have been a more valid argument on his behalf..

I still think they should probably trade him but if you can't enjoy a night like last night why even follow the team? Honestly...

You want to talk about 0 assists? When you're shooting 66% percent on a high volume of shots assists do not matter at all. I notice you didn't mention the 13 rebounds...

I follow the nba... but watching someone take 30+ shots is not why I watch....again, I'm different. some guys like no hitters in baseball where the pitcher walks 7 batters..I much rather see a 20 strikeout game... 62 points nice, but that night is over and this team is still bad.... reality hits fast..

there was a lot of unusual scoring last night in the nba....

To this day, everyone remembers where they were when Bernard dropped 60pts on Christmas. Its a great moment in Knicks and NBA history. Despite that historic night, the KNICKS LOST. In Fact they were one of the worse teams in the league that year... 24-58. Yes King missed 27 games but they were already pretty bad....Still, it doesn't take away from the moment...

playa2 wrote:I'm surprised how many haven't learned from JR playing for the money last yr , but in the end he couldn't sustain it mentally to get big money.

Melo isn't a mental midget like JR is, he's more business savvy.

He's going to show all he is capable of doing for one season until he gets his big payday from Dolan on his free agency tour.

Why are people so blind, one season of JR balling becoming our 2nd leading scorer trying to play the right way.

That's what this season is all about. The following season he can play however he wants to, the money would have already exchanged hands.

We can't even trade JR now that he has his money.....how soon people forget it's a business for the players too.

If Carmelo Anthony doesn't take less money in his new contract, he's not really trying to win a Championship in NYC playing for the NY Knicks.

playa2 wrote:I'm surprised how many haven't learned from JR playing for the money last yr , but in the end he couldn't sustain it mentally to get big money.

Melo isn't a mental midget like JR is, he's more business savvy.

Melo is going to show all he's capable of doing (Reb, play good spot defense, score in bunches) for one season until he gets his big payday from Dolan on his free agency tour.

Why are people so blind, one season of JR balling becoming our 2nd leading scorer trying to play the right way.

That's what this season is all about. The following season he can play however he wants to, the money would have already exchanged hands.

We can't even trade JR now that he has his money.....how soon people forget it's a business for the players too.

If Carmelo Anthony doesn't take less money in his new contract, he's not really trying to win a Championship in NYC playing for the NY Knicks.

You just brought up an interesting point that I forgot about
JR Smith 1st 2 seasons were payed in advance and last year is a player option
So if he is in fact traded to another team, do the Knick's get reimbursed or it is basically trading a player away for free except for the salary cap hit...
JR has mental issues, however, with our lack of talent, and his performance last year, we cannot deny he does have the talent

Let's be honest, if JR did ever play to his max potential his contract would be a complete steal
Problem is he is immature, poor IQ, and lacks motivation
And Woodson has enabled his poor behavior for the most part
Some here, including me thought JR was showing he was worthy of a 8-12m per year player last season

Felton on the other hand, is always trying to FORCE FEED MELO, "trying to make Melo happy" another player enabling Melo rather than creating for the TEAM which is a PG's responsibility
I have always thought he was a small combo guard with strength, and when he was younger he had the combination of strength, quickness, athleticism, and was a decent penetration off the dribble, especially his first stint in NY
In the end, like I have been saying, MANY NBA players are unable to adapt to their games once they decline and lose their physical abilities, and I believe that is the major reason why he has declined since
Many players in the history of the league decline at the age of about 30, some early 30s, some mid 30s, and only some are able to continue to adjust to their games, being productive players as they get older
Usually they have play a BIGGER position like KG from PF to C, AK47 from SF to PF/C, where they can use their length, and make up their lack of speed with IQ, REBOUNDING/BOXING out facilitating, etc....
Athleticism, speed was a big part of Felton and also JR Smith, however, once that declines their holes to their games are multiplied

And for Melo, he isn't the smartest player, isn't the greatest defender, and Melo is hitting that age for his next contract
Like TMAC declined, will Melo be able to still be the "scoring machine" he currently is?
Because if he is unable to adjust, it would be hard to justify his contract and status in the league
Some players you don't even see it coming, for example like Gereld Wallace who was still very productive when at Portland but declined greatly in his 2nd year on The Nets

And that is why I totally disagree about BUILDING around MELO, rather than building around a 3 players or more as a CORE TOGETHER
30m is HALF the cap space for an ENTIRE team, now will Melo decline significantly each year or simply not see it coming with a huge drop off in production?
It would help if he can continue to be at least a GOOD rebounder though

My fear for Melo is what you have basically said, once he gets his contract, and the losing continues, does he lose his motivation to continue to improve/work hard to stay in shape in the off season, and watch his diet as many need to once their metabolism, injuries, and age catches up to him

AT A MAX contract extension, we just wouldn't be able to surround him with the talent needed even if he continues to stay productive, nor would any star want to come to NYK to play with a lack of talent to compliment them and all needing to take a paycut and get scrutinized by the Media....

I don't know how Melo would really break down or decline in a HIGH rate but we must all realize it is a possibility at his age and mileage
and
30m is a lot of money to invest in one player when that is half of the cap space, to build a team
Like I have said many times, only way we can have a chance to compete with Melo is if he doesn't opt out this summer and get a max deal
Preferably taking less in 2015 summer and I don't even care if Dolan wants to reward him with a MAXISH contract after he recruits a core to work with in 2015 and a pickups in continued development players
A player option for 1 year but still get a 5 year deal, and then in 2016 reward him is all I am saying

Melo reminds me a bit of Jerry Stackhouse in his prime, another SCORER, but Melo plays the F position than SG/SF

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

playa2 wrote:I'm surprised how many haven't learned from JR playing for the money last yr , but in the end he couldn't sustain it mentally to get big money.

Melo isn't a mental midget like JR is, he's more business savvy.

Melo is going to show all he's capable of doing (Reb, play good spot defense, score in bunches) for one season until he gets his big payday from Dolan on his free agency tour.

Why are people so blind, one season of JR balling becoming our 2nd leading scorer trying to play the right way.

That's what this season is all about. The following season he can play however he wants to, the money would have already exchanged hands.

We can't even trade JR now that he has his money.....how soon people forget it's a business for the players too.

If Carmelo Anthony doesn't take less money in his new contract, he's not really trying to win a Championship in NYC playing for the NY Knicks.

I can never understand why people have a view that players should approach this from an altruistic point of view...It is a business for everyone my friends...

Agree. The nba and players association collectively bargained a labor agreement. It is each players job to get the best deal that they can. Unless superstars collude and play in an income tax free state, taking less won't happen.

It comes down to two choices, you back Melo to get all the money he can from Dolan and the knicks, or you want to ask Melo to take less or trade him for more players with the potential 30 million dollars you max Melo with.

You are either for Melo"the businessman" or NewYork Knicks team.

Jordan took less and became a business man OFF THE COURT. No tax breaks in Chicago, he wanted a Championship badly. Melo how bad do you want it ???

There is no gray area.

yellowboy90 wrote:I believe I read that if JR is traded the Knicks would have to get reimbursed.

I was going to write why, I could see the NBA looking at paying up front on a contract being a loop hole to for teams to use there wealth to buy other assets when trading players.