LivingLegend wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:not wiling to give up the only DPOY in Knicks history for a happy meal less the toy

Sigh.... you forgot to add Olympic and nba champion too....gonna be on his jock you can't forget the balls

you can insult me all you want - doesn't change the fact that that deal is crap

Not insulting just saying.

Trading gasol for Chandler is hardly giving the dude away.

Your comment is outdated by about four years

I meant Knicks trading Chandler for gasol is hardly giving Chandler away.....

Gasol is an upgrade to the overall skill set of the team. We suck on the board plus offense and defense. Gasol gives us that upgrade. He's an expiring too.... is a no brainer in my opinion.

Plus I think adding jr smith is an added bonus cuz Chandler/jr for gasol works. Maybe we can get a pick or a young guy too.

This should happen if it's available

Big question surrounding Pau is not really this year but what do you do next year when he is a free agent?

If you let him walk I think you are still very tight on cap and can't replace him equally. If you re-sign him long term you are attaching your championsip aspirations to a 34 year old Pau.

Why do we have to resign him? If he did want to come back it would be for half what he's making now.

Anyway life goes on. The Knicks could still do the Lowry deal now and maybe a amare deal...we could get cap now and spend next of season when it counts cuz Melo is free.

OldFan wrote:Tyson - is undersold on this board. This team does not win 54 games without Tyson last year and does not go 7-16 if Tyson plays this year. The team has 2 plus defender Shump and Tyson. The statement that Tyson gives back on offense what he provides on defense is not true. His plus minus stats are always good.

Is a losing battle btw the stat guys and the see with your own eyes common sense guys....

You guys would rather throw starts than admit the carnage you see on the court. Tyson as a leader and defendive stopper is overrated. You guys would rather praise his accolades than think about what is going on the court.

It's all hypothetical but Gasol and lowry coming off the books this summer and getting rid of Shump, jr, Felton and Tyson? Why are the start guys showing up now all of a sudden. You guys would rather watch a losing team than try to get better and improve the cap at the sane time? You would rather lose 2 seasons so we can have a small chance at Kevin love?

You guys suck.... you deserve this team.

EnySpree wrote:

OldFan wrote:Tyson - is undersold on this board. This team does not win 54 games without Tyson last year and does not go 7-16 if Tyson plays this year. The team has 2 plus defender Shump and Tyson. The statement that Tyson gives back on offense what he provides on defense is not true. His plus minus stats are always good.

Is a losing battle btw the stat guys and the see with your own eyes common sense guys....

You guys would rather throw starts than admit the carnage you see on the court. Tyson as a leader and defendive stopper is overrated. You guys would rather praise his accolades than think about what is going on the court.

It's all hypothetical but Gasol and lowry coming off the books this summer and getting rid of Shump, jr, Felton and Tyson? Why are the start guys showing up now all of a sudden. You guys would rather watch a losing team than try to get better and improve the cap at the sane time? You would rather lose 2 seasons so we can have a small chance at Kevin love?

You guys suck.... you deserve this team.

y2zipper wrote:The trade is a talent downgrade in the short-term. I like Chandler, he's very good defensively and brings leadership. He adds real value to a contender, but the Knicks aren't a contender. If it's Chandler and JR Smith for Pau, I make it because it can vastly improve the Knicks' cap situation...

1. This season is probably a lost cause. At 7-16 1/4th of the way through, the odds of winning a title with the way the team is constructed are slim to none. But let's just call it none for simplicity's sake.

2. Tyson Chandler's gone in a year and a half anyway. His contract expires at the end of next season and if the Knicks want a max player, he's not in the plans without a massive pay cut.

3. Anything that gets JR Smith or Raymond Felton off the books without taking long-term deals frees up money after next year, and it helps the Knicks get the space for a max player.

4. The Knicks have their own pick next year, so it's a 1 season opportunity to try to tank for a good player.

We have two years to trade JR, although it's not clear we'll need to anyway. He'll be taking up only about one eleventh of the total cap space. You don't make a huge talent down grade because of the mere possibility that a player making $6 mil might in 2 1/2 years interfere with salary cap goals. If they were to take Felton also off our hands and give us a draft pick, that would be another story.

y2zipper wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

y2zipper wrote:The trade is a talent downgrade in the short-term. I like Chandler, he's very good defensively and brings leadership. He adds real value to a contender, but the Knicks aren't a contender. If it's Chandler and JR Smith for Pau, I make it because it can vastly improve the Knicks' cap situation...

1. This season is probably a lost cause. At 7-16 1/4th of the way through, the odds of winning a title with the way the team is constructed are slim to none. But let's just call it none for simplicity's sake.

2. Tyson Chandler's gone in a year and a half anyway. His contract expires at the end of next season and if the Knicks want a max player, he's not in the plans without a massive pay cut.

3. Anything that gets JR Smith or Raymond Felton off the books without taking long-term deals frees up money after next year, and it helps the Knicks get the space for a max player.

4. The Knicks have their own pick next year, so it's a 1 season opportunity to try to tank for a good player.

We have two years to trade JR, although it's not clear we'll need to anyway. He'll be taking up only about one eleventh of the total cap space. You don't make a huge talent down grade because of the mere possibility that a player making $6 mil might in 2 1/2 years interfere with salary cap goals. If they were to take Felton also off our hands and give us a draft pick, that would be another story.

This is exactly what you do when you want to build a contender. Obviously you'd like to take on more picks and get rid of Felton if you can, but doing this now increases the value of the picks DO own (the 2014-2015 first-rounder) by making the Knicks worse and is significant because the Knicks get value and get the cap relief for a max player in a year and a half without giving up one of the few young assets we have. All you give up is a guy who isn't helping you win a title and isn't part of the long-term plan here anyway.

All right but don't give them a $20 and ask for a $5

y2zipper wrote:The trade is a talent downgrade in the short-term. I like Chandler, he's very good defensively and brings leadership. He adds real value to a contender, but the Knicks aren't a contender. If it's Chandler and JR Smith for Pau, I make it because it can vastly improve the Knicks' cap situation...

1. This season is probably a lost cause. At 7-16 1/4th of the way through, the odds of winning a title with the way the team is constructed are slim to none. But let's just call it none for simplicity's sake.

2. Tyson Chandler's gone in a year and a half anyway. His contract expires at the end of next season and if the Knicks want a max player, he's not in the plans without a massive pay cut.

3. Anything that gets JR Smith or Raymond Felton off the books without taking long-term deals frees up money after next year, and it helps the Knicks get the space for a max player.

4. The Knicks have their own pick next year, so it's a 1 season opportunity to try to tank for a good player.

great post and on top of that, you can play shumpert and THJ as much as you want next year, play murray, bring up tyler, play those guys and evaluate them.. if they are good , we can move a few of them for other assets... if they suck, we have our pick..

you make the trade to improve our cap..

EnySpree wrote:

OldFan wrote:Tyson - is undersold on this board. This team does not win 54 games without Tyson last year and does not go 7-16 if Tyson plays this year. The team has 2 plus defender Shump and Tyson. The statement that Tyson gives back on offense what he provides on defense is not true. His plus minus stats are always good.

Is a losing battle btw the stat guys and the see with your own eyes common sense guys....

You guys would rather throw starts than admit the carnage you see on the court. Tyson as a leader and defendive stopper is overrated. You guys would rather praise his accolades than think about what is going on the court.

It's all hypothetical but Gasol and lowry coming off the books this summer and getting rid of Shump, jr, Felton and Tyson? Why are the start guys showing up now all of a sudden. You guys would rather watch a losing team than try to get better and improve the cap at the sane time? You would rather lose 2 seasons so we can have a small chance at Kevin love?

You guys suck.... you deserve this team.

Huh? Did I say something that offended you.

Tyson was voted defensive player of the year two years ago I don't have a vote. He played on a championship team and his team mates gave him a lot of the credit - I wasn't one of his team mates. This team was a good team last year and his coach team mates and many observers besides myself thought he was a big part of it.

I did not say one word about what the team should do - I just defended Tyson's ability and contributions.

I didn't give accolades (originally) I gave stats. You didn't like the stats - you said he failed the eye ball test. I then pointed out a lot of people besides myself believe he passes the eyeball test.

We do need to make changes but Chandler is way down my list of the players I'd like to get rid of.