|
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
|
tkf wrote:nixluva wrote:knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:Clean wrote:nixluva wrote:Clean wrote:I don't care about all these nice records during the regular season. A coaches true colors are shown in the playoffs. Woody has shown he lacks the ability to adjust and game plan effectively. This is the main reason for his lackluster playoff results. In truth Woody's issues in NY in terms of the Playoffs come from his decision to move towards ISO BB. He actually allowed the team to increase it's already high % of ISO plays, which was the wrong way to go. The record shows that when this team goes heavy ISO the ball sticks, they play less efficient BB, they lose their energy on D and they lose games. Woody, Melo and JR are usually to blame for this when it happens. It's just the facts of the matter. Woody allows this to happen and Melo and JR have no problem just banging their heads against the wall trying to ISO their way to wins, but losing instead. We keeps seeing the same theme since Melo has come here. Every time we get in this bind you read quotes from STAT, Shump and Tyson saying the ball needs to move!!! Melo usually chafes at this suggestion and Woody backs him up. This has been the dynamic and so IMO Woody is at fault when the Knicks go sideways and the ball sticks. He refuses to pull JR when he gets crazy ball hogging and he denies Ball Movement is an issue when it's clear Melo and JR are ball stopping too much. Anyone who denies this reality is in full on denial. Stats support this and our own eyes support that this is what happens. You explained almost everything I was too lazy to write. Thanks! Hey I really do stick to the facts, which my detractors seem to overlook when i'm posting. Every thread I start is FULL of statistical proof and direct quotes! To support my point look at how Melo was playing when the team was losing right after Linsanity and then how he was playing when the team was winning the very day MDA left. Notice that when Melo dragged the team down leading to MDA quiting, he was taking more shots and passing less. When MDA quit that very DAY all of a sudden Melo decides to pass the ball and not take a ton of shots, which was the VERY THING MDA WAS BEGGING HIM TO DO!!! If i'm wrong someone please show otherwise.
Month MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
3/21 @ PHI W 82-79 34 5-15 .333 0-2 .000 0-1 .000 5 2 0 0 4 2 10
3/20 vsTOR W 106-87 31 5-15 .333 1-3 .333 6-8 .750 8 5 0 3 3 2 17
3/17 @ IND W 102-88 30 6-13 .462 1-4 .250 3-7 .429 4 3 0 0 3 3 16
3/16 vsIND W 115-100 23 4-12 .333 0-3 .000 4-5 .800 7 5 0 2 4 0 12
3/14 vsPOR W 121-79 25 6-12 .500 3-6 .500 1-2 .500 2 7 0 1 1 2 16
MDA
3/12 @ CHI L 99-104 39 8-21 .381 1-3 .333 4-4 1.000 8 3 1 2 4 2 21
3/11 vsPHI L 94-106 29 5-13 .385 1-4 .250 11-12 .917 9 3 0 0 2 1 22
3/9 @ MIL L 114-119 37 7-17 .412 1-2 .500 7-10 .700 5 2 2 1 1 2 22
3/7 @ SA L 105-118 38 12-24 .500 3-7 .429 0-1 .000 2 3 0 2 5 2 27
3/6 @ DAL L 85-95 31 2-12 .167 0-3 .000 2-4 .500 8 1 0 0 1 2 6
3/4 @ BOS L 111-115 35 8-21 .381 0-1 .000 9-10 .900 7 2 0 0 4 3 25
We see the same thing happen so far this year. The last 2 wins the team was moving the ball and everyone got involved. We saw the return of the Melo/STAT PnR and the spread offense. If it was so hard to figure out, then those of us who have been pointing this out for years wouldn't be proved right over and over again. I have no problem with good ISO possessions, but you can't have the ball stop moving and selfish ball hogging and expect to have a good flow and win. When the ball moves you force the defense to work and expose weaknesses. When you force ISO and ball hog it makes things easier for the defense. Of course you still need talent to win, but you can lose with talent if you don't share the ball. That is why I blamed Woody for the losing. The talent was there to win with, but the approach was wrong. This isn't to say this is a perfect team. It's a very flawed team, but with the right style of play you can win games. Woody must remain committed to Ball Movement and spacing and mixing it up offensively.
yeah, you are flat out wrong, it wasnt any difference in melo's play....just all team usually receive a bump in wins when they have a coaching change.Thats all that happened, and ironically the sample you used melo had better overall stats under MDA than he did under Woody...ho figure. But also just simply look at whom they were playing during MDA's final days...all on the road, all good teams VS under Woody mostly at home, and the teams werent as good.....just like these last two wins. Wait until they play someone good, then make this wonderful repeater post. You quite clearly missed all the points of my post. For one thing It wasn't about Melo's stats improving, but rather the fact that the team played better when he wasn't dominating the ball and was looking for his teammates. You and others CONTINUALLY miss the overarching point when it comes to this. Also you'd have to be blind in order to not notice the extra effort level that Melo put in after MDA left. In particular on defense. When the best player on your team picks up his effort level like that it does in fact effect the entire team, just as it was a drag on the entire team when the best player, MELO was dogging it after he came back and killed off the good vibes the team had while he was out. Yes we all know that there's a bump when teams change coaches, but that only underscores the fact that Woody was barely a factor in the team winning like they did based on some supposed great coaching. They didn't have the time to really make wholesale changes. There were no practice days and they openly admitted that little had changed except the effort level. That is until we get to the point when Woody starts to go more with ISO and in the playoffs every time that has killed us. I hate the argument about strength of competition. For one thing good teams will win their fair share of games against the schedule. What is most important is sticking to good BB principles and executing at a high level. That is especially the case when you don't have the leagues best talent. The coach has to be on top of his game and the players have to execute at a high level as well. The fact is that this team last year was able to beat anyone in the league when they played the game the right way and could lose to anyone when they didn't. It's no different now. They should've beaten Indiana this year and didn't finish the game with good execution. That kept happening and it's really just more evidence of what i'm pointing out and have been consistently saying for years.
Sorry man, i take little to nothing out of beating bad teams, thats why they are bad, anyone can beat them.The difference between a "bump" and Woody is the "bump" lasted two seasons, so it's more than just a bump. Woody is good enough for THIS group, they just need to play with some pride primarily and trust each other...two things they havent done. They havent ran any "plays" in these two wins, all they do is swing the ball around the three point line, sprinkled with a few drives to open up the court with a faster tempo.....that aint winning playoff basketball, but should suffice in the regular season. Is Woody a good playoff coach? Nope, but very few are, and he certainly doesnt have a playoff worthy roster either. This is the gauge for me and I need no graphs nor videos to prove it. The Knicks last year were completely ravaged by injuries and still put up a good regular season, this team so far cant do it. Playoff-wise, the better team usually wins...Indy was better, and they are thoroughly proving it this season. Same coach, same core...different results so far, so obviously those ARENT the main issues....they are still missing things. Primarily a better roster, get that then talk about the coach. Folks make me laugh on here, they kill the coach but know there isnt anything better out there and wont make a suggestion either because they know there isnt anything better.....but completely ignore the roster. There was a point in time when Doc Rivers was on the hot seat...amazing what an infusion of talent can do.
I hate debating posters like you cuz most of the stuff you write isn't quantifiable. It's just cliche garbage and personal opinions. There's a reason courts demand evidence. You just take the easy way out with lame comments that have little value and don't advance the conversation.Yes the 2 wins were against bad teams, but we were also losing to bad teams so that's not really the point. What we need to see is the right style of play. Team Ball and solid BB principles. Execution. Doesn't matter who you play, if you do those things you give yourself a chance to beat any team. It's hugely debatable whether Woody is "good enough for THIS group" as you put it. That's the whole reason for the discussion. It's my and others opinion that the team didn't need to start off so poorly given the fact that the team core was largely there and they already had a style of play, but Woody abandoned that to start the year. He started the year with the same group who went 15-1 available to him. You're comment that they haven't run any plays but just swung the ball PROVES you aren't as astute as you are pretending to be. The positioning was completely different because they went back to a spread offense. Melo in the post and everyone else above the 3pt line. That isn't all they ran but it was the base offense and it allows them to pull all the defenders away from the basket and get Melo one on one while creating open shooters on the perimeter. It's especially effective since Bargs is a threat from 3. If you think that teams will find it easy to defend that you have no idea how hard that is to do. This also opens up lanes to cut to the basket when defenders come racing out to the 3pt line to get back on shooters. With regard to the roster or coach argument, it's obvious to anyone that the most important thing is the talent on your roster, but this isn't a team that is without talent. In that instance the coach does become important. When Doc was losing his teams had almost no talent around PP. Once you have some talent then the coach does make a difference. Woodson is not a premiere coach. There are other coaches out there who are at the least on his level or better. He's got a chance to do better and we'll see how that goes. The point is that some said the roster was garbage and no one could win with it, so why bash Woody and I was saying that he could've been doing better and I believe that still. The roster isn't so bad that a coach can't win with it. I don't get our post... you said his post are not quatifiable? cliche and Garbage opinions? really? I didn't see that in his last post.. He hit on a few points that were dead on... Not in need of a quantitative data.... for instance.. Sorry man, i take little to nothing out of beating bad teams, thats why they are bad, anyone can beat them. did we not beat two bad teams? nets and magic records combined is 12-27, those are records of bad teams... and saying he gets nothing out of beating them is not a cliche or garbage opinion.... They havent ran any "plays" in these two wins, all they do is swing the ball around the three point line, sprinkled with a few drives to open up the court with a faster tempo.....that aint winning playoff basketball, but should suffice in the regular season. Another solid post, which takes no more than the eye test.. anyone can see the knicks were not running plays, and the actual facts, results pretty much back up what he said.. you will win some regular season games with that, but not in the playoffs.. not sure what your gripe with his post is at all.. tkf, my issue is that simplistic points like the ones you think are so on point aren't really getting to the heart of the problem. It's not about strength of competition. It's about this teams commitment to playing team ball, execution and effort. The Knicks didn't lose today because the Celtics have more talent. The Celtics performed as a team and clearly look to be a better coached team. The Knicks weren't shooting great but also didn't make use of all the options available to them. If the Jumpers aren't dropping you go to something else. Try to get inside and attack the basket, post, screens, curls, PnR, cuts etc... The points I was making after the 2 wins had nothing to do with who they were playing. You have to look at HOW a team is playing no matter how good the record of the team they are playing is. The comment about them not running plays was off base because they actually ran some successful Plays in the 2 wins including some PnR plays between Melo and STAT. Also the spread offense actually is a base play. The comment is just stupid. You spread the floor with one post player or with a PnR at the top and you create lanes to pass or cut and weaken the defense. They didn't need to run any of their other plays tho i'd like to see them do that more. Simple thing is that you usually run a successful play until they show they can stop it. Nets and Magic couldn't stop it. Further regarding the team not running plays i'm not here saying that they are running good offense consistently. Obviously they haven't been all year, but when they actually started moving the ball and getting good shots the 2 previous wins that is more of what they need to be doing, but of course much more than that. Woody has to incorporate more variety into the offense. They have the plays but just don't run them. More important is that Woody has to do a better job of using his roster. It's been pointed out many times that he hasn't been using Felton-Prigs like he did last year. It's the most successful back court tandem. His rotations in general have been suspect. This was the heart of the disagreement. I'm saying that no matter how flawed the roster is, Woodson is not doing a great job of coaching and getting the most out of what he has. His decisions are actually making things worse. |
