Knixkik wrote:Getting back to the original topic, i really think we are going to make a big splash for a big name with Shumpert as the main bait. Kevin Love seems to be the plan as of this morning, and while it makes sense, it is a risk. The salary cap would leave the cupboard pretty bare around Melo and Love, although on the flip side the CBA has also allowed many more quality players to be available for minimum salaries during free agency. I still think Rondo will be the main target.

As much as I hate to say this, as I would rather keep a team for a few years than keep the garden's bench chairs musical for better or for worse, even if the cupboard is bare, this isn't a problem. History has proven it takes 3 really good players with one being the alpha to tango in this league, the rest just need to fit their niches and role play well on both ends. Melo, Love, one other really good guard (Shump?) and 10 solid role players is title material. See previous Miami, Dallas, San Antonio, Boston, Lakers, Houston, Chicago title winners/contenders for examples.

IronWillGiroud wrote:Kevin Love is NOT coming here, he's not stupid!

We can really only attract really dumb players or players that just want a fat check and go home at night without really thinking or worrying about basketball at all.

Kevin Love would rather kill himself than play with Melo, let's not be delusional

The odds of Kevin Love coming here is 2 years is probably less than 2%. You can have the cap space for it but its not happening.

Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Getting back to the original topic, i really think we are going to make a big splash for a big name with Shumpert as the main bait. Kevin Love seems to be the plan as of this morning, and while it makes sense, it is a risk. The salary cap would leave the cupboard pretty bare around Melo and Love, although on the flip side the CBA has also allowed many more quality players to be available for minimum salaries during free agency. I still think Rondo will be the main target.

In 2015, rather than paying Melo 20-30 per year when the salary cap is about 60m, it just won't make sense
Only player that you can do that for is Lebron and maybe Durant

For instance, we are not getting Love if we are paying Melo 20-30 per year

1- I would much rather trade Melo for whatever picks, role players, preferably the Wilson Chandler type, and expirings, admit it was a mistake
While paying someone Kevin Love 15m or so per year

2- Then sign Rudy Gay at 1/2 or 1/3 of his price, while upgrading our development coaches/equipment,

3- Then probably go after lets say Dragic or Lin in 2015 at 6-8m per year, Bayless/Sessions this summer with full 3m MLE with players option if needed, and trade for the other

4- Try to trade Felton (unfortunately again) and JR Smith for shorter deals with 1st round draft picks, high IQ/TEAM CHEMISTRY players as well
With assets/pick, maybe target glue players like Hickson, Greviez Vasquez *would give up 2 2nd rounders or 1 lower 1st rounder*/ Isiah Thomas *with Brewer's trade exemption and a 2nd round draft pick*

5- resign Iman at 5-7m per year depending on how long he wants his contract to be, if he wants 10-12m, see what we can get out of him in a trade unless he shows tremoundous improvement

6- go after Bynum/Dirk/ Pau Gasol, are the gambles if the price is right or go solid with a player like Asik

7- If possible go after combinations of veterans like Tim Duncan to play a Rasheed Wallace role *3m*, KG *MAYBE at a 2m salary* with 2-3 year deals but allow them to retire after 2 years and set them up to be coaches/development coach/assistant coach or whatever HIGH paying job after they want to retire to go along with the Spur's coaching/GM staff with Poppavich/Buford getting 8m+ per year + incentives and giving up stock, full power/control and whatever Riley wanted before he went to the Heat and won 2 rings instead

So Knixkik, if it came down to it, would u rather have Melo at 20-30m

or

Kevin Love and another 2nd tier star like Rudy Gay *or even Monta Ellis would be deadly and fit with Love and Vasquez*, which would be in the same price range??

Wow, you really think all those players are going to sign for that amount of money? Love for 15 a year? Gay for 1/2 price? If it came down to it, i would rather have Lebron for 10 mil, Melo for 10 mil, and Love for 10 mil, since we are playing that game, but its not realistic. Love will sign for the max whether he leaves or not. Gay will get paid. Asik will get paid. Come on.

Knixkik, I am not trying to attack your post by any means, but do you even know the salaries before you start assuming things?
Do you know the rules of the CBA and changes?
We have the bird rights to CA, meaning we can give him the largest % increase per year and a 5 year deal
Players to we sign with cap space, we cannot pay them more than the team with their bird rights and increases or lower

It is not far fetched as you are implying with 10m per year for Lebron/Durant etc
to make a couple million less for a 65m-85m for 4 years, 100-135m 5years
You leave room for the team to sign more quality players with talent and compete for a ring which would yield greater $$$ in endorsements, especially here in NY where we are all have been starving for a chance to build a TEAM that actually can contend for the next 5years +

The salary I

Lebron, Wade, and Bosh all took less to form a trio to contend and 2015 is going to be the history of the NBA's best FA class to repeat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I acknowledge the tax is less in Florida and Texas, but the league has changed
Players now want $$$ and the chance to be legit contenders in their prime, with a team that DOES NOT mind to continue to pay big $$$ in future contracts with early player options
Again, these players can make it back in endorsements, reality TV shows, "BEGINNINGs on MSG", and other ways off the court in these NYC
Our biggest negative is that we don't have much draft picks, assets, ways to improve with limited salary, to use in trades or to replenish our bench with down the road

The trio started a new trend, with their 2 rings, allowing players build a team together, most importantly, doing it in their prime
To win in the NBA now, you likely need 2-3 ALL STAR caliber talents with solid role players/bench, unfortunately, only the big market teams are capable of spending, players don't want to end up like Durant/Westbrook, the way they loss Harden and waste 3-5 years that they could have built a dynasty with to save for the owner

What I am suggesting is the STARTING salary, with increases each year, the reason why Melo should not OPT out of his contract if he is serious about staying in NK and competing for a title
The first year salary will likely be the least so putting the core of ALL STAR's, Star's, 2nd tier Star's, together in the same year is absolutely crucial, where as the increase leaves less room/flexibility to build a team on

IF

Melo is willing to not opt out this summer, but in 2015 summer take less on his first year with player options that would allow him to opt out for a LARGER deal to have the pieces in order for him to compete with the REAL CONTENDERS

Every little bit we can save in salaries, likely would be the difference between building a contender to a pretender, and that is why players have a chance to take less, especially if ONE initiates it, like Lebron did

With this money saved, the team can either use it for 3 all Star's or 2 Star's, and some solid role players/ 2nd tier stars, or aged vets

BRIGGS wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:Kevin Love is NOT coming here, he's not stupid!

We can really only attract really dumb players or players that just want a fat check and go home at night without really thinking or worrying about basketball at all.

Kevin Love would rather kill himself than play with Melo, let's not be delusional

The odds of Kevin Love coming here is 2 years is probably less than 2%. You can have the cap space for it but its not happening.

Truth is, I don't think he would like to play with Melo, and that I also don't think Melo wants to stay a Knick for less than what another team is willing to pay him
He wants to same treatment as Lebron gets Kobe got in his prime

His peak was last season to trade him, now with the team losing, and his player option, we lose value as he also gets older.....
If we can get back a 1/3 or 1/2 the assets we traded for him, it makes it a no brainer with the FA class of 2015
All Star's want to play with players that make them even better than they are, Melo isn't one of them and he is mediocre at best DEFENSIVELY vs PF's and NOT SF's that can shoot, beat him off the dribble, with ability to finish

But

his body takes a pounding so he needs breaks as well

regardless, he isn't worth the extension he is seeking if he opts out cause HE IS NOT WORTH what he is already getting in this new CBA as he will be in decline

RonRon wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:Kevin Love is NOT coming here, he's not stupid!

We can really only attract really dumb players or players that just want a fat check and go home at night without really thinking or worrying about basketball at all.

Kevin Love would rather kill himself than play with Melo, let's not be delusional

The odds of Kevin Love coming here is 2 years is probably less than 2%. You can have the cap space for it but its not happening.

Exactly

You are probably right, but what were the chances of Houston getting 2 All Star's in D12 and Harden in 2010 and being actual title contenders?
It still will not stop many teams from the possibility of Lebron joining a team with cap space, even teams like Suns, Cleveland, etc, which have many nice young pieces and many draft picks, and the cap room to do so

Pacer's is an interesting team because they will have some cap room and ability to move players with trades with an expiring and draft picks, I think they made a horrible move for Scola though and that is on Larry Bird

One was a trade and the other is an idiot. I guess we are expecting more idiots.