nixluva wrote:I would love to have seen Melo playing with a really good PG. For one thing it would mitigate some of his flaws and improve his strengths. Having an attacking and great passing PG would really help a lot. I'd love to see a kid like Rondo play with Melo. The roster is flawed in that regard since we have Felton who isn't a great passer and have to supplement his game with Prigs just to get some decent PG play to run this team. IMO part of Melo's issues have come from talented but flawed teams he's played on. When he had Billups things improved but that wasn't for a long enough stretch of time. It's not so much that you have to have a BETTER player next to Melo. Rather you need a SMARTER TEAM player next to him that can run the team and control Melo's game.

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:I would love to have seen Melo playing with a really good PG. For one thing it would mitigate some of his flaws and improve his strengths. Having an attacking and great passing PG would really help a lot. I'd love to see a kid like Rondo play with Melo. The roster is flawed in that regard since we have Felton who isn't a great passer and have to supplement his game with Prigs just to get some decent PG play to run this team. IMO part of Melo's issues have come from talented but flawed teams he's played on. When he had Billups things improved but that wasn't for a long enough stretch of time. It's not so much that you have to have a BETTER player next to Melo. Rather you need a SMARTER TEAM player next to him that can run the team and control Melo's game.

if you need to get someone to control your max players game, then what in the world would you pay that person?

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:I would love to have seen Melo playing with a really good PG. For one thing it would mitigate some of his flaws and improve his strengths. Having an attacking and great passing PG would really help a lot. I'd love to see a kid like Rondo play with Melo. The roster is flawed in that regard since we have Felton who isn't a great passer and have to supplement his game with Prigs just to get some decent PG play to run this team. IMO part of Melo's issues have come from talented but flawed teams he's played on. When he had Billups things improved but that wasn't for a long enough stretch of time. It's not so much that you have to have a BETTER player next to Melo. Rather you need a SMARTER TEAM player next to him that can run the team and control Melo's game.

if you need to get someone to control your max players game, then what in the world would you pay that person?

He essentially called Melo dumb.

lol....

Both of you are being ASSES!!! What I wrote was clear. You put a smarter TEAM player at PG that can run and control the team as well as Melo. When we have Prigs in the game he's running the offense and that doesn't allow things to devolve into Melo feeling he has to go ISO just for the team to score. It's not about Melo not being good enough, but rather using his talent in the conjunction with the rest of the team in the best way. We don't have a great PG who can run the entire team as well as score on his own, so we have to meld Felton/Prigs/Udrih in order to try and keep the ball moving and get players in the right spots.

The Point is that if you don't run good offense with the supporting cast that leaves Melo left with only ISO plays. When we were kicking teams in the teeth last year, we got good TEAM BB from the supporting cast and that kept Melo from having to go ISO too much. That's why I posted that quote which showed just how efficient the team was when running actual plays as opposed to ISO.

As one of the league's best offenses during the regular season, the Knicks used 15.9 isolations per game. In the playoffs, it's been 26.6.

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:I would love to have seen Melo playing with a really good PG. For one thing it would mitigate some of his flaws and improve his strengths. Having an attacking and great passing PG would really help a lot. I'd love to see a kid like Rondo play with Melo. The roster is flawed in that regard since we have Felton who isn't a great passer and have to supplement his game with Prigs just to get some decent PG play to run this team. IMO part of Melo's issues have come from talented but flawed teams he's played on. When he had Billups things improved but that wasn't for a long enough stretch of time. It's not so much that you have to have a BETTER player next to Melo. Rather you need a SMARTER TEAM player next to him that can run the team and control Melo's game.

if you need to get someone to control your max players game, then what in the world would you pay that person?

He essentially called Melo dumb.

lol....

Both of you are being ASSES!!! What I wrote was clear. You put a smarter TEAM player at PG that can run and control the team as well as Melo. When we have Prigs in the game he's running the offense and that doesn't allow things to devolve into Melo feeling he has to go ISO just for the team to score. It's not about Melo not being good enough, but rather using his talent in the conjunction with the rest of the team in the best way. We don't have a great PG who can run the entire team as well as score on his own, so we have to meld Felton/Prigs/Udrih in order to try and keep the ball moving and get players in the right spots.

The Point is that if you don't run good offense with the supporting cast that leaves Melo left with only ISO plays. When we were kicking teams in the teeth last year, we got good TEAM BB from the supporting cast and that kept Melo from having to go ISO too much. That's why I posted that quote which showed just how efficient the team was when running actual plays as opposed to ISO.

As one of the league's best offenses during the regular season, the Knicks used 15.9 isolations per game. In the playoffs, it's been 26.6.

Melo's preference is to iso, he's good at it, but it doesnt win when it matters.

Woody prefers to iso as well, he has a history of utilizing that.

Woody cares about ball movment and taking the open shot...basketball basics....neither melo or Woody would know what to do with a true pg on the team, as it takes the ball out of both of their control.

But you are calling Melo a dumb player, but ironically he's smarter than you give him credit for...he can actually run the offense himself, it's by design why he plays the way he do.

Not to compare the two, but do you know that Melo possesses the same skillset as Lebron?

Only difference...one is committed to their entire skillset, Melo is just committed to scoring.

But there isnt a single skill that LeBron possesses that melo doesnt.

I do believe Melo can pass more but the issue is that ISO did increase because Woodson allowed it to happen. Melo will run the plays the coach calls but if you don't make it a priority to stick to Ball and Player Movement then it's all too easy to end up with a bunch of Melo and JR ISO's. The offense was efficient last year because we had good balance of Team BB and ISO plays. When that balance got out of whack in the playoffs the offense suffered.

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:I would love to have seen Melo playing with a really good PG. For one thing it would mitigate some of his flaws and improve his strengths. Having an attacking and great passing PG would really help a lot. I'd love to see a kid like Rondo play with Melo. The roster is flawed in that regard since we have Felton who isn't a great passer and have to supplement his game with Prigs just to get some decent PG play to run this team. IMO part of Melo's issues have come from talented but flawed teams he's played on. When he had Billups things improved but that wasn't for a long enough stretch of time. It's not so much that you have to have a BETTER player next to Melo. Rather you need a SMARTER TEAM player next to him that can run the team and control Melo's game.

if you need to get someone to control your max players game, then what in the world would you pay that person?

He essentially called Melo dumb.

lol....

Both of you are being ASSES!!! What I wrote was clear. You put a smarter TEAM player at PG that can run and control the team as well as Melo. When we have Prigs in the game he's running the offense and that doesn't allow things to devolve into Melo feeling he has to go ISO just for the team to score. It's not about Melo not being good enough, but rather using his talent in the conjunction with the rest of the team in the best way. We don't have a great PG who can run the entire team as well as score on his own, so we have to meld Felton/Prigs/Udrih in order to try and keep the ball moving and get players in the right spots.

The Point is that if you don't run good offense with the supporting cast that leaves Melo left with only ISO plays. When we were kicking teams in the teeth last year, we got good TEAM BB from the supporting cast and that kept Melo from having to go ISO too much. That's why I posted that quote which showed just how efficient the team was when running actual plays as opposed to ISO.

As one of the league's best offenses during the regular season, the Knicks used 15.9 isolations per game. In the playoffs, it's been 26.6.

Melo's preference is to iso, he's good at it, but it doesnt win when it matters.

Woody prefers to iso as well, he has a history of utilizing that.

Woody cares about ball movment and taking the open shot...basketball basics....neither melo or Woody would know what to do with a true pg on the team, as it takes the ball out of both of their control.

But you are calling Melo a dumb player, but ironically he's smarter than you give him credit for...he can actually run the offense himself, it's by design why he plays the way he do.

Not to compare the two, but do you know that Melo possesses the same skillset as Lebron?

Only difference...one is committed to their entire skillset, Melo is just committed to scoring.

But there isnt a single skill that LeBron possesses that melo doesnt.

I do believe Melo can pass more but the issue is that ISO did increase because Woodson allowed it to happen. Melo will run the plays the coach calls but if you don't make it a priority to stick to Ball and Player Movement then it's all too easy to end up with a bunch of Melo and JR ISO's. The offense was efficient last year because we had good balance of Team BB and ISO plays. When that balance got out of whack in the playoffs the offense suffered.

Melo has always been an iso player, way before Woody.

You can say stick to this or that, but those shots have to fall eventually, which they werent.

The offense was good when guys hit shots, plain and simple....Ronnie Brewer was sticking threes in the beginning as was kidd.

Shots stop falling, someone has to take over...enter Melo, enter JR.

You're oversimplifying. The real issue isn't that Melo is an ISO player. The issue is that as a team they have to make sure to keep balance between the ISO plays and good Ball and Player Movement. There are tons of ways to get good Ball and Player movement besides just shooting 3's.

There are of course lots of other plays, but you get the point. Just run good BB plays and you don't have to over rely on ISO.

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:I would love to have seen Melo playing with a really good PG. For one thing it would mitigate some of his flaws and improve his strengths. Having an attacking and great passing PG would really help a lot. I'd love to see a kid like Rondo play with Melo. The roster is flawed in that regard since we have Felton who isn't a great passer and have to supplement his game with Prigs just to get some decent PG play to run this team. IMO part of Melo's issues have come from talented but flawed teams he's played on. When he had Billups things improved but that wasn't for a long enough stretch of time. It's not so much that you have to have a BETTER player next to Melo. Rather you need a SMARTER TEAM player next to him that can run the team and control Melo's game.

if you need to get someone to control your max players game, then what in the world would you pay that person?

He essentially called Melo dumb.

lol....

Both of you are being ASSES!!! What I wrote was clear. You put a smarter TEAM player at PG that can run and control the team as well as Melo. When we have Prigs in the game he's running the offense and that doesn't allow things to devolve into Melo feeling he has to go ISO just for the team to score. It's not about Melo not being good enough, but rather using his talent in the conjunction with the rest of the team in the best way. We don't have a great PG who can run the entire team as well as score on his own, so we have to meld Felton/Prigs/Udrih in order to try and keep the ball moving and get players in the right spots.

The Point is that if you don't run good offense with the supporting cast that leaves Melo left with only ISO plays. When we were kicking teams in the teeth last year, we got good TEAM BB from the supporting cast and that kept Melo from having to go ISO too much. That's why I posted that quote which showed just how efficient the team was when running actual plays as opposed to ISO.

As one of the league's best offenses during the regular season, the Knicks used 15.9 isolations per game. In the playoffs, it's been 26.6.

Melo's preference is to iso, he's good at it, but it doesnt win when it matters.

Woody prefers to iso as well, he has a history of utilizing that.

Woody cares about ball movment and taking the open shot...basketball basics....neither melo or Woody would know what to do with a true pg on the team, as it takes the ball out of both of their control.

But you are calling Melo a dumb player, but ironically he's smarter than you give him credit for...he can actually run the offense himself, it's by design why he plays the way he do.

Not to compare the two, but do you know that Melo possesses the same skillset as Lebron?

Only difference...one is committed to their entire skillset, Melo is just committed to scoring.

But there isnt a single skill that LeBron possesses that melo doesnt.

I do agree that carmelo is commited to one thing.. but I dissagree that last statement.. he doesn't posess half the skill lebron has... outside of scoring..

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:I would love to have seen Melo playing with a really good PG. For one thing it would mitigate some of his flaws and improve his strengths. Having an attacking and great passing PG would really help a lot. I'd love to see a kid like Rondo play with Melo. The roster is flawed in that regard since we have Felton who isn't a great passer and have to supplement his game with Prigs just to get some decent PG play to run this team. IMO part of Melo's issues have come from talented but flawed teams he's played on. When he had Billups things improved but that wasn't for a long enough stretch of time. It's not so much that you have to have a BETTER player next to Melo. Rather you need a SMARTER TEAM player next to him that can run the team and control Melo's game.

if you need to get someone to control your max players game, then what in the world would you pay that person?

He essentially called Melo dumb.

lol....

Both of you are being ASSES!!! What I wrote was clear. You put a smarter TEAM player at PG that can run and control the team as well as Melo. When we have Prigs in the game he's running the offense and that doesn't allow things to devolve into Melo feeling he has to go ISO just for the team to score. It's not about Melo not being good enough, but rather using his talent in the conjunction with the rest of the team in the best way. We don't have a great PG who can run the entire team as well as score on his own, so we have to meld Felton/Prigs/Udrih in order to try and keep the ball moving and get players in the right spots.

The Point is that if you don't run good offense with the supporting cast that leaves Melo left with only ISO plays. When we were kicking teams in the teeth last year, we got good TEAM BB from the supporting cast and that kept Melo from having to go ISO too much. That's why I posted that quote which showed just how efficient the team was when running actual plays as opposed to ISO.

As one of the league's best offenses during the regular season, the Knicks used 15.9 isolations per game. In the playoffs, it's been 26.6.

Melo's preference is to iso, he's good at it, but it doesnt win when it matters.

Woody prefers to iso as well, he has a history of utilizing that.

Woody cares about ball movment and taking the open shot...basketball basics....neither melo or Woody would know what to do with a true pg on the team, as it takes the ball out of both of their control.

But you are calling Melo a dumb player, but ironically he's smarter than you give him credit for...he can actually run the offense himself, it's by design why he plays the way he do.

Not to compare the two, but do you know that Melo possesses the same skillset as Lebron?

Only difference...one is committed to their entire skillset, Melo is just committed to scoring.

But there isnt a single skill that LeBron possesses that melo doesnt.

I do believe Melo can pass more but the issue is that ISO did increase because Woodson allowed it to happen. Melo will run the plays the coach calls but if you don't make it a priority to stick to Ball and Player Movement then it's all too easy to end up with a bunch of Melo and JR ISO's. The offense was efficient last year because we had good balance of Team BB and ISO plays. When that balance got out of whack in the playoffs the offense suffered.

Melo has always been an iso player, way before Woody.

You can say stick to this or that, but those shots have to fall eventually, which they werent.

The offense was good when guys hit shots, plain and simple....Ronnie Brewer was sticking threes in the beginning as was kidd.

Shots stop falling, someone has to take over...enter Melo, enter JR.

You're oversimplifying. The real issue isn't that Melo is an ISO player. The issue is that as a team they have to make sure to keep balance between the ISO plays and good Ball and Player Movement. There are tons of ways to get good Ball and Player movement besides just shooting 3's.

There are of course lots of other plays, but you get the point. Just run good BB plays and you don't have to over rely on ISO.

so true, so why do you need a 25mil per year chucker to run this offense.. just get good, smart two way players and you can run this offense all day.. kind of proves my point here...

Well again like your friend above you are oversimplifying the point. You need a MIX of a GREAT one on one Scorer and good Team BB. There will be times when the defense does a good job and the shot clock is running down that you need a player like Melo who can make something out of nothing. You just don't want to over rely on ISO plays. It's a really simple point i'm making. Melo has value to the team and guys that can hit game winning shots and take over games for stretches are important to have. However, you much have a base of good Team BB to build on. This team was able to do that but failed to do that in the playoffs.

All i'm hearing from some of you is ways to try and bash Melo but you're trying too hard. There is clearly a way to make it work and this team did that for much of the year. They got into trouble when they left off their good Ball and Player Movement. It's that simple.

gunsnewing wrote:Because Melo is worth that to Dolan if we make the playoffs