nixluva wrote:

Papabear wrote:

nixluva wrote:I still don't get these self hating Knicks fans. You have literally the best team you've seen from this franchise since the last Finals team and all you can do is take shots at the team! WTF are you guys ever going to be pleased with if you can't get behind this team? All the nitpicking is unbelievable. Team won 54 games and fails to get past the 2nd rd, but improves the roster over the summer and some fans can't see the positives in that. SMH

Papabear Says

Remember what I said ignore them. They want you to feel like them doom and gloom. Hopelessness. That's just how they feel.

It just never ceases to amaze me. I go thru this with Jets fans too. They just stick to the same old "woah is me" "Jets Suck!" stuff and don't pay attention to the moves the team made to improve the team. The media all said the Jets were 32nd in the league. At some point you have to actually evaluate talent and make a call based on what that talent should be able to do. that doesn't mean you'll be right, but don't base it on long held assumptions and act like some genius if the team fails. Any team can just fail to come together, but if you aren't basing your appraisal on the actual talent and how it should come together and just going with the cliche about a team, then it's not valid.

Last year MOST of the media were wrong about the Knicks and IMO they failed to really evaluate the talent and just marked the Knicks down based on long held assumptions. Phil Jackson says the team is a mess and so it must be true. Media thinks the Nets were gonna be better last year and so it must be true. Until the Knicks get the #2 seed. We could all be wrong and the team could simply misfire, but that wouldn't be based on the talent and makeup of the roster. That would just be an epic fluke that sometimes happens to teams. There's no logical reason to expect failure based on the facts.

funny you say that.. I am a diehard jets fan..... and honestly they have reason to be pessimistic... until the jets prove that they are better than predicted.. But here is the difference.. with the jets I and others can actually see things to build upon.. like youth, a young and talented Defensive front that is probably best in the league. A promising young QB... those are things you can build on..

please show me something positive that will lead me to believe the knicks are on the way to actually put themselves in contention for a ring.. and don't you dare mention anything about carmelo or bargnani... those guys are not the answer.. give me some hope? any draft picks? young studs in the wings? competent front office...

Had the jets started mark shanchez I would not be so optimistic about the jets.. believe that..

Last year MOST of the media were wrong about the Knicks and IMO they failed to really evaluate the talent and just marked the Knicks down based on long held assumptions. Phil Jackson says the team is a mess and so it must be true.

how were they wrong? the knicks would have been first round victims had the celts been healthy...and we still struggled with them.. yes we won more regular season games than most predicted.. so if you want to hang your hat on that.. fine.. they don't give out regular season trophies...

smackeddog wrote:

mattshaw78 wrote:I don't want to be a downer but I think we can't win with Melo.

Well, in the 2 years we've had him, you're the first to express such a view, therefore you must me wrong.

Seriously, the vast majority of this board would like you to know that we not only cannot win with Melo, but you dayum better well keep your dog away from him! Just ask tkf!

SissyFuss and the Rock post format IamTheAnswerMan Industries, LLC. Copyright 2013

So this myth of SissyFuss is all about a very wise, clever man who decided he knew better than these stupid gods. He bargained with some idiot king over water and lightning bolts and decided that he could control all destinies involved in his little universe. As a result, he was doomed to an eternal punishment of pushing a rock up a hill and then watching it roll back down again.

Now some amongst us may think that there's a glimmer of majesty in SissyFuss because he can see the beauty in the doom and gloom in those scant moments right before the rock rolls endlessly back down again. Maybe there's some amongst us who truly believe that there's nothing that cannot be conquered with a fair amount of derision and scorn. As long as you have "facts" to back up said derision and scorn. There are obviously those amongst us who will stand, defiant, strong and well-squatted mentally (Shout out, IWG!) and shake our fists at the gods and forever be determined not to bow the knee.

There are those amongst us who truly believe they know better. And they will pontificate endlessly about how they know the noble way, the 8-fold path to chipland and the 14 perfect truths to rock happiness. And they will continue, endlessly and with a gleeful gloom about them, to inform you that you do not know what you do not know you do not now know. And they will stare pitiful stares at you, as you wave your pennant and swagger your Knicks cap and sing the songs of Melo. They will shake their heads at your happiness over some doofy division title and some fools gold, some once in a decade season.

They mock your hope. And rightfully so (to them). They've been to Miami. They've seen the king. They know that despite the past, despite all the fun jokes we had last season, Brooklyn is the burgeoning place to be. Indiana has the New Kid with the Block. Chicago is on their way all the way back. You represent the Knicked moron who always knows what he's going to order before he sits down to the menu with a thousand options and wines to pair. They are thoughtful, these who are in the grasp of true knowledge, the new Gnostics with all the facts, lists and stats that you just can't bare to deal with.

So they know that the Knick rock is just going to roll on back down the hill. They know the little small man-god owner is a douche. They know it in a way you never will. They may grimace through the strain of pushing at the Melo rock. But for that one brief moment, they smile smug smiles at the rock. Only because they know.

SO FUHUUUUUUUCK THEM! WE ARE WINNING IT ALL THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

djsunyc wrote:knicks are in the wnba now?

in the postseason, solid to great defensive teams (i.e. chi, indy, mia and probably nj) will be able to exploit bargnani's defense in a 7 game series. so whatever effect he will have offensively, will probably be nullified and then some on the defensive end. you will have the defense scrambling all over the place to cover for him. it is why novak got 0 pt last year. you just can't have defensive liabilities on the court for the playoffs.

woodson will probably use chandler + melo + artest alot more in the postseason with bargs mins getting lower as the series continues.

chi + mia have players the knicks just can not contain at all. and once you remove bargs and amare, then the frontcourt attack is nullified as well. nj just has crazy depth and savvy - don't see how the knicks get past them in a 7 game series either. they might be able to get past indy b/c they don't have a true takeover the game offensive player on the squad.

they didn't need it last year and could have easily beat us in 5 games had george hill not sat out... the pacers got better on paper this year too....

One thing to remember, their best player nullifies ours.. so in essence who is the true takeover game offensive player? I think that is very overrated.. because usually in the playoffs a true take over player does it on both ends of the floor... Miami beat the spurs because the were able to turn it up a notch defensively.. lebron nullified parker.. that was the deciding factor..

as soon as knicks fans come to the realization that having a volume scorer does not make a great player or winning formula the better off and less dissapointed they will be...

tkf wrote:

djsunyc wrote:knicks are in the wnba now?

in the postseason, solid to great defensive teams (i.e. chi, indy, mia and probably nj) will be able to exploit bargnani's defense in a 7 game series. so whatever effect he will have offensively, will probably be nullified and then some on the defensive end. you will have the defense scrambling all over the place to cover for him. it is why novak got 0 pt last year. you just can't have defensive liabilities on the court for the playoffs.

woodson will probably use chandler + melo + artest alot more in the postseason with bargs mins getting lower as the series continues.

chi + mia have players the knicks just can not contain at all. and once you remove bargs and amare, then the frontcourt attack is nullified as well. nj just has crazy depth and savvy - don't see how the knicks get past them in a 7 game series either. they might be able to get past indy b/c they don't have a true takeover the game offensive player on the squad.

they didn't need it last year and could have easily beat us in 5 games had george hill not sat out... the pacers got better on paper this year too....

One thing to remember, their best player nullifies ours.. so in essence who is the true takeover game offensive player? I think that is very overrated.. because usually in the playoffs a true take over player does it on both ends of the floor... Miami beat the spurs because the were able to turn it up a notch defensively.. lebron nullified parker.. that was the deciding factor..

as soon as knicks fans come to the realization that having a volume scorer does not make a great player or winning formula the better off and less dissapointed they will be...

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

djsunyc wrote:knicks are in the wnba now?

in the postseason, solid to great defensive teams (i.e. chi, indy, mia and probably nj) will be able to exploit bargnani's defense in a 7 game series. so whatever effect he will have offensively, will probably be nullified and then some on the defensive end. you will have the defense scrambling all over the place to cover for him. it is why novak got 0 pt last year. you just can't have defensive liabilities on the court for the playoffs.

woodson will probably use chandler + melo + artest alot more in the postseason with bargs mins getting lower as the series continues.

chi + mia have players the knicks just can not contain at all. and once you remove bargs and amare, then the frontcourt attack is nullified as well. nj just has crazy depth and savvy - don't see how the knicks get past them in a 7 game series either. they might be able to get past indy b/c they don't have a true takeover the game offensive player on the squad.

they didn't need it last year and could have easily beat us in 5 games had george hill not sat out... the pacers got better on paper this year too....

One thing to remember, their best player nullifies ours.. so in essence who is the true takeover game offensive player? I think that is very overrated.. because usually in the playoffs a true take over player does it on both ends of the floor... Miami beat the spurs because the were able to turn it up a notch defensively.. lebron nullified parker.. that was the deciding factor..

as soon as knicks fans come to the realization that having a volume scorer does not make a great player or winning formula the better off and less dissapointed they will be...

I don't really know if you can hang your hat on that too often. The year Dallas won the finals, I'm pretty sure Lebron was still better than Dirk.

LEBRON wasn't guarding dirk... and carmelo surely isn't dirk as well.. my point is.. Paul george guards carmelo... carmelo shot 32% when george was on him.. therefore the idea of having this one guy who can takeover is overstated so often by knick fans..

And lets be real.. dirk had moments where he came through big, that carried the mavs, but the mavs had different heroes.. from shawn marion, to chandler, to jason terry having a huge game....

in the end, the mavs Won as a TEAM... Great teams beat great players I guess...

jrodmc wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

mattshaw78 wrote:I don't want to be a downer but I think we can't win with Melo.

Well, in the 2 years we've had him, you're the first to express such a view, therefore you must me wrong.

Seriously, the vast majority of this board would like you to know that we not only cannot win with Melo, but you dayum better well keep your dog away from him! Just ask tkf!

SissyFuss and the Rock post format IamTheAnswerMan Industries, LLC. Copyright 2013

So this myth of SissyFuss is all about a very wise, clever man who decided he knew better than these stupid gods. He bargained with some idiot king over water and lightning bolts and decided that he could control all destinies involved in his little universe. As a result, he was doomed to an eternal punishment of pushing a rock up a hill and then watching it roll back down again.

Now some amongst us may think that there's a glimmer of majesty in SissyFuss because he can see the beauty in the doom and gloom in those scant moments right before the rock rolls endlessly back down again. Maybe there's some amongst us who truly believe that there's nothing that cannot be conquered with a fair amount of derision and scorn. As long as you have "facts" to back up said derision and scorn. There are obviously those amongst us who will stand, defiant, strong and well-squatted mentally (Shout out, IWG!) and shake our fists at the gods and forever be determined not to bow the knee.

There are those amongst us who truly believe they know better. And they will pontificate endlessly about how they know the noble way, the 8-fold path to chipland and the 14 perfect truths to rock happiness. And they will continue, endlessly and with a gleeful gloom about them, to inform you that you do not know what you do not know you do not now know. And they will stare pitiful stares at you, as you wave your pennant and swagger your Knicks cap and sing the songs of Melo. They will shake their heads at your happiness over some doofy division title and some fools gold, some once in a decade season.

They mock your hope. And rightfully so (to them). They've been to Miami. They've seen the king. They know that despite the past, despite all the fun jokes we had last season, Brooklyn is the burgeoning place to be. Indiana has the New Kid with the Block. Chicago is on their way all the way back. You represent the Knicked moron who always knows what he's going to order before he sits down to the menu with a thousand options and wines to pair. They are thoughtful, these who are in the grasp of true knowledge, the new Gnostics with all the facts, lists and stats that you just can't bare to deal with.

So they know that the Knick rock is just going to roll on back down the hill. They know the little small man-god owner is a douche. They know it in a way you never will. They may grimace through the strain of pushing at the Melo rock. But for that one brief moment, they smile smug smiles at the rock. Only because they know.

SO FUHUUUUUUUCK THEM! WE ARE WINNING IT ALL THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jayzus, tkf, what the eff you going to do, post 15 times in a row?

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

djsunyc wrote:knicks are in the wnba now?

in the postseason, solid to great defensive teams (i.e. chi, indy, mia and probably nj) will be able to exploit bargnani's defense in a 7 game series. so whatever effect he will have offensively, will probably be nullified and then some on the defensive end. you will have the defense scrambling all over the place to cover for him. it is why novak got 0 pt last year. you just can't have defensive liabilities on the court for the playoffs.

woodson will probably use chandler + melo + artest alot more in the postseason with bargs mins getting lower as the series continues.

chi + mia have players the knicks just can not contain at all. and once you remove bargs and amare, then the frontcourt attack is nullified as well. nj just has crazy depth and savvy - don't see how the knicks get past them in a 7 game series either. they might be able to get past indy b/c they don't have a true takeover the game offensive player on the squad.

they didn't need it last year and could have easily beat us in 5 games had george hill not sat out... the pacers got better on paper this year too....

One thing to remember, their best player nullifies ours.. so in essence who is the true takeover game offensive player? I think that is very overrated.. because usually in the playoffs a true take over player does it on both ends of the floor... Miami beat the spurs because the were able to turn it up a notch defensively.. lebron nullified parker.. that was the deciding factor..

as soon as knicks fans come to the realization that having a volume scorer does not make a great player or winning formula the better off and less dissapointed they will be...

I don't really know if you can hang your hat on that too often. The year Dallas won the finals, I'm pretty sure Lebron was still better than Dirk.

great teams beat great players. the mavs were a great team and the heat didn't have it figured out that first year.

indy is a great team and the knicks are not. the so-called great player the knicks have isn't that great anyway. if the knicks start playing like a great team i will be singing a different tune but until then....

exactly... knick fans use the argument of having that player that can take over games... that is odd considering that knick fans feel we have that player, but yet can explain what happened last year and the year before... at some point you have to abandon that argument considering our current cast of players..

knicks1248 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Solace wrote:I think the Knicks path to a finals victory involves more luck than anything. There are two teams that, if healthy, I don't think we can beat. They are both in the east. They are the Heat and the Bulls. I don't think our odds are good against either. I think we can beat Indy, though it would be difficult. But Indy isn't in that upper class, IMHO. So, in my mind, our path to the finals, and ultimately a championship, is both the Heat and Bulls getting eliminated by other teams before the ECF. Not a likely scenario, but I think that's our one chance.

I have one question.. what evidence is there to suggest that we can beat indy, looking at how they pretty much man handled us last year, and we did nothing to address those issues?

luck or lightning in a bottle, health is always a concern for the knicks especially in recent history.

I would like to believe we are top tier, but we all know depth and talent is just part of the puzzle.

The areas that concern me is brains, defense, rebounding and coaching..

Brains = not picking up techs, getting suspended, silly fouls, bad (bail out) passing or selfish play.

Defense = guards gambling to much, bad rotaions (amare barg, melo) not bringing it on every play

Rebounding= no one on this roster is known as a very good rebounder, no one.

Coaching= Woodson can not rotate a deep bench at all, he's better when were injured and have 9 guys to rotate, and his playoff record scary bad..

Not trying to be pessimistic, but these issues are reality..

yea, it is not being pessimistic as much as it is being realistic as you said... these issues must be addressed to even compete with the big boys..

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

djsunyc wrote:knicks are in the wnba now?

in the postseason, solid to great defensive teams (i.e. chi, indy, mia and probably nj) will be able to exploit bargnani's defense in a 7 game series. so whatever effect he will have offensively, will probably be nullified and then some on the defensive end. you will have the defense scrambling all over the place to cover for him. it is why novak got 0 pt last year. you just can't have defensive liabilities on the court for the playoffs.

woodson will probably use chandler + melo + artest alot more in the postseason with bargs mins getting lower as the series continues.

chi + mia have players the knicks just can not contain at all. and once you remove bargs and amare, then the frontcourt attack is nullified as well. nj just has crazy depth and savvy - don't see how the knicks get past them in a 7 game series either. they might be able to get past indy b/c they don't have a true takeover the game offensive player on the squad.

they didn't need it last year and could have easily beat us in 5 games had george hill not sat out... the pacers got better on paper this year too....

One thing to remember, their best player nullifies ours.. so in essence who is the true takeover game offensive player? I think that is very overrated.. because usually in the playoffs a true take over player does it on both ends of the floor... Miami beat the spurs because the were able to turn it up a notch defensively.. lebron nullified parker.. that was the deciding factor..

as soon as knicks fans come to the realization that having a volume scorer does not make a great player or winning formula the better off and less dissapointed they will be...

I don't really know if you can hang your hat on that too often. The year Dallas won the finals, I'm pretty sure Lebron was still better than Dirk.

great teams beat great players. the mavs were a great team and the heat didn't have it figured out that first year.

indy is a great team and the knicks are not. the so-called great player the knicks have isn't that great anyway. if the knicks start playing like a great team i will be singing a different tune but until then....

exactly... knick fans use the argument of having that player that can take over games... that is odd considering that knick fans feel we have that player, but yet can explain what happened last year and the year before... at some point you have to abandon that argument considering our current cast of players..

Don't generalize here cause I have never used that argument.

well I was not referring to you, so in order not to use specific names I had to generalize there, but I will say you didn't use that argument...

tkf wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

djsunyc wrote:knicks are in the wnba now?

in the postseason, solid to great defensive teams (i.e. chi, indy, mia and probably nj) will be able to exploit bargnani's defense in a 7 game series. so whatever effect he will have offensively, will probably be nullified and then some on the defensive end. you will have the defense scrambling all over the place to cover for him. it is why novak got 0 pt last year. you just can't have defensive liabilities on the court for the playoffs.

woodson will probably use chandler + melo + artest alot more in the postseason with bargs mins getting lower as the series continues.

chi + mia have players the knicks just can not contain at all. and once you remove bargs and amare, then the frontcourt attack is nullified as well. nj just has crazy depth and savvy - don't see how the knicks get past them in a 7 game series either. they might be able to get past indy b/c they don't have a true takeover the game offensive player on the squad.

they didn't need it last year and could have easily beat us in 5 games had george hill not sat out... the pacers got better on paper this year too....

One thing to remember, their best player nullifies ours.. so in essence who is the true takeover game offensive player? I think that is very overrated.. because usually in the playoffs a true take over player does it on both ends of the floor... Miami beat the spurs because the were able to turn it up a notch defensively.. lebron nullified parker.. that was the deciding factor..

as soon as knicks fans come to the realization that having a volume scorer does not make a great player or winning formula the better off and less dissapointed they will be...

I don't really know if you can hang your hat on that too often. The year Dallas won the finals, I'm pretty sure Lebron was still better than Dirk.

LEBRON wasn't guarding dirk... and carmelo surely isn't dirk as well.. my point is.. Paul george guards carmelo... carmelo shot 32% when george was on him.. therefore the idea of having this one guy who can takeover is overstated so often by knick fans..

And lets be real.. dirk had moments where he came through big, that carried the mavs, but the mavs had different heroes.. from shawn marion, to chandler, to jason terry having a huge game....

in the end, the mavs Won as a TEAM... Great teams beat great players I guess...

The thing is that Hibbert was more of a problem that series than anything.

well again, it goes back to the TEAM thing... Hibbert, George, Hill, west, stephenson all were a problem... we had no answer for any of them, and it showed, all of them left a huge mark on this series...

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

djsunyc wrote:knicks are in the wnba now?

in the postseason, solid to great defensive teams (i.e. chi, indy, mia and probably nj) will be able to exploit bargnani's defense in a 7 game series. so whatever effect he will have offensively, will probably be nullified and then some on the defensive end. you will have the defense scrambling all over the place to cover for him. it is why novak got 0 pt last year. you just can't have defensive liabilities on the court for the playoffs.

woodson will probably use chandler + melo + artest alot more in the postseason with bargs mins getting lower as the series continues.

chi + mia have players the knicks just can not contain at all. and once you remove bargs and amare, then the frontcourt attack is nullified as well. nj just has crazy depth and savvy - don't see how the knicks get past them in a 7 game series either. they might be able to get past indy b/c they don't have a true takeover the game offensive player on the squad.

they didn't need it last year and could have easily beat us in 5 games had george hill not sat out... the pacers got better on paper this year too....

One thing to remember, their best player nullifies ours.. so in essence who is the true takeover game offensive player? I think that is very overrated.. because usually in the playoffs a true take over player does it on both ends of the floor... Miami beat the spurs because the were able to turn it up a notch defensively.. lebron nullified parker.. that was the deciding factor..

as soon as knicks fans come to the realization that having a volume scorer does not make a great player or winning formula the better off and less dissapointed they will be...

I don't really know if you can hang your hat on that too often. The year Dallas won the finals, I'm pretty sure Lebron was still better than Dirk.

LEBRON wasn't guarding dirk... and carmelo surely isn't dirk as well.. my point is.. Paul george guards carmelo... carmelo shot 32% when george was on him.. therefore the idea of having this one guy who can takeover is overstated so often by knick fans..

And lets be real.. dirk had moments where he came through big, that carried the mavs, but the mavs had different heroes.. from shawn marion, to chandler, to jason terry having a huge game....

in the end, the mavs Won as a TEAM... Great teams beat great players I guess...

The thing is that Hibbert was more of a problem that series than anything.

well again, it goes back to the TEAM thing... Hibbert, George, Hill, west, stephenson all were a problem... we had no answer for any of them, and it showed, all of them left a huge mark on this series...

Yeah not arguments here about that. I just don't think, when comparing the Knicks to the Pacers, that it comes down to Melo vs George. They had a lot of things going for them outside of that matchup.

I agree with that, which is why I said, and again, not saying you used this argument, but some knick fans keep saying that the pacers don't have that one player to take over games offensively.. and I think that is an overstatement since the knicks don't either.. especially when paul George is guarding the guy most knick fans feel is "that guy"..

It is bigger than that as you said...there were so many mismatches on the floor... too much size, length, athleticism... it was a major problem for the knicks that did extend well beyond the carmelo/ George matchup...