dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

tkf wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:I don't get how these scrubs are raking in the big bucks. Less than 42% shooting is all I need to know to not give any player big contracts.

FG% is all you need to know? What does that say about Melo's .417 career post-season FG% then?

for real.. LOl.. but while I would like to see George improve his FG% the guy is only taking 14 shots per game, not 21, so I can deal with that.. what I like is his rebounding, assist and most of all his elite level defense.. put that whole package together and you can live with his few flaws..

only a slight disagreement TK. I think if we switched him for Melo, his shots would go up and his percentage would likely drop. Just saying :)

why would his shots go up? I don't think he would change the way he plays.... the pacers don't have a bunch of scorers on that team, they are the product of good defense, and good team play on offense.... their best player sets the example..

because like Melo, he'd have to carry this squad too. Who else is there to really step up? JR? Shump? Felton? You can't rely on these guys to carry you offensively. JR can do it in spurts for a few games but, is anyone really ready to rely on JR to be that consistent 2nd option again this season?

Maybe it would actually be a good idea for the team to have good ball movement and have all those other players more involved. Good passing is the best way to create good shots.

and if the guys your passing it to can't hit shots? Then you lose trust in them, right?

carmelo isn't hitting shots at a higher rate, you do understand that right? he is just taking a lot more of them... carmelo is not carrying or saving the knicks.. IMO he is doing more harm to their long term chances of actually trying to win a ring... he doesn't pass, defend, and he isn't efficient scoring the ball... The knicks are not loaded with talent, that is true, but lets stop pretending that no one can hit a shot if they are allowed to play in their comfort zone and not have to wait for scraps..

"wait for scraps" LOL. you have a way with words.

but the eye test and the numbers back it up.

usage rate 35.6 then 38.0 in the playoffs
assist rate 14.1 then 9.3 in the playoffs
ts% 56% then 49.7% in the playoffs
3.1 fouls then 3.8 fouls in the playoffs-- many of them dumb offensive and defensive fouls
2.6 assists and 2.6 turnovers in the regular season
1.6 assists and 2.6 turnovers in the playoffs
offensive rebounds and blocks went down from regular season to playoffs too.

great players, max money players, are expected to elevate their games in the big boy season, not regress. all his numbers across the board went down, not up-- except his usage of course.

but yeah the teammates can't be trusted, they didn't step up, and melo did his job, stepped up, and carried the team.

not true. Before the shoulder injury his efficiency was good.

DurzoBlint wrote:

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

tkf wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:I don't get how these scrubs are raking in the big bucks. Less than 42% shooting is all I need to know to not give any player big contracts.

FG% is all you need to know? What does that say about Melo's .417 career post-season FG% then?

for real.. LOl.. but while I would like to see George improve his FG% the guy is only taking 14 shots per game, not 21, so I can deal with that.. what I like is his rebounding, assist and most of all his elite level defense.. put that whole package together and you can live with his few flaws..

only a slight disagreement TK. I think if we switched him for Melo, his shots would go up and his percentage would likely drop. Just saying :)

why would his shots go up? I don't think he would change the way he plays.... the pacers don't have a bunch of scorers on that team, they are the product of good defense, and good team play on offense.... their best player sets the example..

because like Melo, he'd have to carry this squad too. Who else is there to really step up? JR? Shump? Felton? You can't rely on these guys to carry you offensively. JR can do it in spurts for a few games but, is anyone really ready to rely on JR to be that consistent 2nd option again this season?

Maybe it would actually be a good idea for the team to have good ball movement and have all those other players more involved. Good passing is the best way to create good shots.

and if the guys your passing it to can't hit shots? Then you lose trust in them, right?

carmelo isn't hitting shots at a higher rate, you do understand that right? he is just taking a lot more of them... carmelo is not carrying or saving the knicks.. IMO he is doing more harm to their long term chances of actually trying to win a ring... he doesn't pass, defend, and he isn't efficient scoring the ball... The knicks are not loaded with talent, that is true, but lets stop pretending that no one can hit a shot if they are allowed to play in their comfort zone and not have to wait for scraps..

"wait for scraps" LOL. you have a way with words.

but the eye test and the numbers back it up.

usage rate 35.6 then 38.0 in the playoffs
assist rate 14.1 then 9.3 in the playoffs
ts% 56% then 49.7% in the playoffs
3.1 fouls then 3.8 fouls in the playoffs-- many of them dumb offensive and defensive fouls
2.6 assists and 2.6 turnovers in the regular season
1.6 assists and 2.6 turnovers in the playoffs
offensive rebounds and blocks went down from regular season to playoffs too.

great players, max money players, are expected to elevate their games in the big boy season, not regress. all his numbers across the board went down, not up-- except his usage of course.

but yeah the teammates can't be trusted, they didn't step up, and melo did his job, stepped up, and carried the team.

not true. Before the shoulder injury his efficiency was good.

i am not a fan of melo's game but i will admit that 55%TS is at least a little bit above the league average, but that does not qualify as "good." for an elite scorer he doesn't crack the top 20 for the forward position or the top 60 regardless of position. http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/ts-percentage "good" means 58-60%TS. great would be over 60%TS. lebron and durant are "great" scorers.

maybe the shoulder had something to do with it but his 3-point shot was on the decline prior to that, indicating fatigue, which in turn raises the issue of conditioning.

DurzoBlint wrote:

dk7th wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

tkf wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:I don't get how these scrubs are raking in the big bucks. Less than 42% shooting is all I need to know to not give any player big contracts.

FG% is all you need to know? What does that say about Melo's .417 career post-season FG% then?

for real.. LOl.. but while I would like to see George improve his FG% the guy is only taking 14 shots per game, not 21, so I can deal with that.. what I like is his rebounding, assist and most of all his elite level defense.. put that whole package together and you can live with his few flaws..

only a slight disagreement TK. I think if we switched him for Melo, his shots would go up and his percentage would likely drop. Just saying :)

why would his shots go up? I don't think he would change the way he plays.... the pacers don't have a bunch of scorers on that team, they are the product of good defense, and good team play on offense.... their best player sets the example..

because like Melo, he'd have to carry this squad too. Who else is there to really step up? JR? Shump? Felton? You can't rely on these guys to carry you offensively. JR can do it in spurts for a few games but, is anyone really ready to rely on JR to be that consistent 2nd option again this season?

Maybe it would actually be a good idea for the team to have good ball movement and have all those other players more involved. Good passing is the best way to create good shots.

and if the guys your passing it to can't hit shots? Then you lose trust in them, right?

carmelo isn't hitting shots at a higher rate, you do understand that right? he is just taking a lot more of them... carmelo is not carrying or saving the knicks.. IMO he is doing more harm to their long term chances of actually trying to win a ring... he doesn't pass, defend, and he isn't efficient scoring the ball... The knicks are not loaded with talent, that is true, but lets stop pretending that no one can hit a shot if they are allowed to play in their comfort zone and not have to wait for scraps..

"wait for scraps" LOL. you have a way with words.

but the eye test and the numbers back it up.

usage rate 35.6 then 38.0 in the playoffs
assist rate 14.1 then 9.3 in the playoffs
ts% 56% then 49.7% in the playoffs
3.1 fouls then 3.8 fouls in the playoffs-- many of them dumb offensive and defensive fouls
2.6 assists and 2.6 turnovers in the regular season
1.6 assists and 2.6 turnovers in the playoffs
offensive rebounds and blocks went down from regular season to playoffs too.

great players, max money players, are expected to elevate their games in the big boy season, not regress. all his numbers across the board went down, not up-- except his usage of course.

but yeah the teammates can't be trusted, they didn't step up, and melo did his job, stepped up, and carried the team.

not true. Before the shoulder injury his efficiency was good.

i am not a fan of melo's game but i will admit that 55%TS is at least a little bit above the league average, but that does not qualify as "good." for an elite scorer he doesn't crack the top 20 for the forward position or the top 60 regardless of position. http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/ts-percentage "good" means 58-60%TS. great would be over 60%TS. lebron and durant are "great" scorers.

maybe the shoulder had something to do with it but his 3-point shot was on the decline prior to that, indicating fatigue, which in turn raises the issue of conditioning.

don't you remember watching the games dude...know your an true fan. We were ALL pretty much complaining about the way woody ran guys into the ground. Even in blowouts he would wait too long to sub melo out. As far the 3point decline, I think it was more because he started chucking the hell out of the things instead of going inside. I may be wrong but when the shoulder got injured, he (logically) drove to the rim less. I do concede that you are right that he is not ELITE. Never though he was elite but, very good.

DurzoBlint wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

dk7th wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

tkf wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:I don't get how these scrubs are raking in the big bucks. Less than 42% shooting is all I need to know to not give any player big contracts.

FG% is all you need to know? What does that say about Melo's .417 career post-season FG% then?

for real.. LOl.. but while I would like to see George improve his FG% the guy is only taking 14 shots per game, not 21, so I can deal with that.. what I like is his rebounding, assist and most of all his elite level defense.. put that whole package together and you can live with his few flaws..

only a slight disagreement TK. I think if we switched him for Melo, his shots would go up and his percentage would likely drop. Just saying :)

why would his shots go up? I don't think he would change the way he plays.... the pacers don't have a bunch of scorers on that team, they are the product of good defense, and good team play on offense.... their best player sets the example..

because like Melo, he'd have to carry this squad too. Who else is there to really step up? JR? Shump? Felton? You can't rely on these guys to carry you offensively. JR can do it in spurts for a few games but, is anyone really ready to rely on JR to be that consistent 2nd option again this season?

Maybe it would actually be a good idea for the team to have good ball movement and have all those other players more involved. Good passing is the best way to create good shots.

and if the guys your passing it to can't hit shots? Then you lose trust in them, right?

carmelo isn't hitting shots at a higher rate, you do understand that right? he is just taking a lot more of them... carmelo is not carrying or saving the knicks.. IMO he is doing more harm to their long term chances of actually trying to win a ring... he doesn't pass, defend, and he isn't efficient scoring the ball... The knicks are not loaded with talent, that is true, but lets stop pretending that no one can hit a shot if they are allowed to play in their comfort zone and not have to wait for scraps..

"wait for scraps" LOL. you have a way with words.

but the eye test and the numbers back it up.

usage rate 35.6 then 38.0 in the playoffs
assist rate 14.1 then 9.3 in the playoffs
ts% 56% then 49.7% in the playoffs
3.1 fouls then 3.8 fouls in the playoffs-- many of them dumb offensive and defensive fouls
2.6 assists and 2.6 turnovers in the regular season
1.6 assists and 2.6 turnovers in the playoffs
offensive rebounds and blocks went down from regular season to playoffs too.

great players, max money players, are expected to elevate their games in the big boy season, not regress. all his numbers across the board went down, not up-- except his usage of course.

but yeah the teammates can't be trusted, they didn't step up, and melo did his job, stepped up, and carried the team.

not true. Before the shoulder injury his efficiency was good.

i am not a fan of melo's game but i will admit that 55%TS is at least a little bit above the league average, but that does not qualify as "good." for an elite scorer he doesn't crack the top 20 for the forward position or the top 60 regardless of position. http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/ts-percentage "good" means 58-60%TS. great would be over 60%TS. lebron and durant are "great" scorers.

maybe the shoulder had something to do with it but his 3-point shot was on the decline prior to that, indicating fatigue, which in turn raises the issue of conditioning.

don't you remember watching the games dude...know your an true fan. We were ALL pretty much complaining about the way woody ran guys into the ground. Even in blowouts he would wait too long to sub melo out. As far the 3point decline, I think it was more because he started chucking the hell out of the things instead of going inside. I may be wrong but when the shoulder got injured, he (logically) drove to the rim less. I do concede that you are right that he is not ELITE. Never though he was elite but, very good.

Your focus is pretty myopic IMO. Look at Melo's career. He's clearly a 54 or 55% TS guy. Everyone has periods of injury and periods of healthy. If you look their entire career's work, you get a good, large sample. It's fair to say he takes a ton of shots and hits at a slightly above average rate.

hey I did concede that he isn't an elite scorer Bonn. I describe his a very good but not elite and your right about the percentages which also did go down when he got injured. He went from good to ok to wtf. Then he started healing up and went back to good. Not sure how else I can express that I am agreeing with you

tkf wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

tkf wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:I don't get how these scrubs are raking in the big bucks. Less than 42% shooting is all I need to know to not give any player big contracts.

FG% is all you need to know? What does that say about Melo's .417 career post-season FG% then?

for real.. LOl.. but while I would like to see George improve his FG% the guy is only taking 14 shots per game, not 21, so I can deal with that.. what I like is his rebounding, assist and most of all his elite level defense.. put that whole package together and you can live with his few flaws..

only a slight disagreement TK. I think if we switched him for Melo, his shots would go up and his percentage would likely drop. Just saying :)

why would his shots go up? I don't think he would change the way he plays.... the pacers don't have a bunch of scorers on that team, they are the product of good defense, and good team play on offense.... their best player sets the example..

because like Melo, he'd have to carry this squad too. Who else is there to really step up? JR? Shump? Felton? You can't rely on these guys to carry you offensively. JR can do it in spurts for a few games but, is anyone really ready to rely on JR to be that consistent 2nd option again this season?

why do you guys equate carrying a team to shooting? other guys are capable, are you telling me, that felton isn't capable of 2 more PPG? spread the ball, share the ball, these guys are capable or scoring in a team oriented offense.... tell me, what happened when carmelo missed games? did the knicks average 50ppg? during that period? no, they still scored, collectively they did it..

That's on the Coach and I agree it was beautiful to see that ball movement early on in the season...kind of forgot about that since it became so much iso melo midway to late in the season.