SupremeCommander wrote:

tkf wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:You realize he missed most of the past 2 seasons with minor injuries right?

Nothing to do with declining emotionally. That's a little of base no?

he has been in emotional decline since sam mitchell left the raptors. I read some articles, interesting ones in which mitchell was prohibited from really coaching bargnani hard.... the guy was coddled and protected.. over the past few years with the changes in toronto he has been like the odd man looking in....emotionally you hear he doesn't want to work hard, likes the NBA's money and fame, but not the work.. he is fragile and damaged emotionally from a professional standpoint..

What you're saying doesn't make sense. Why would Bargnani be in emotional decline if Mitchell was fired? Also if Mitchell was ordered to be hands off with Bargnani and he couldn't be tough with him, then why would Bargs be down emotionally? HOW DOES BEING CODDLED BREAK YOU EMOTIONALLY?

Everyone has their path to maturity and I think Bargnani appreciates this 2nd chance he has to get his career back on track. I think with our team and coaches AB will play much better and have a bounce back year. It's not about yelling at him or being tough so to speak. You can get players to perform without that crap. This idea that you need someone to yell and curse you just to play well is not true. Some of the most quiet and respectful coaches have won super bowls in the NFL, which is a much tougher sport.

I agree with Nix. Mitchell did have some success with his style and certainly was fiery but that yelling in your face style doesn't always work with some players. Mitchell's fiery style also led to an @ss beating at the hands of Vince Carter and a subsequent trade that got them little back from the Nets.

+2

there never really was any posting standards at realgm

LIKE you would know?

LIKE why are you posting here now then? GO BACK TO REALGM or play with your wife and kid or whatever you want to make up next

HOW ABOUT never put my wife and kids name in your mouth again.... real talk

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:You realize he missed most of the past 2 seasons with minor injuries right?

Nothing to do with declining emotionally. That's a little of base no?

he has been in emotional decline since sam mitchell left the raptors. I read some articles, interesting ones in which mitchell was prohibited from really coaching bargnani hard.... the guy was coddled and protected.. over the past few years with the changes in toronto he has been like the odd man looking in....emotionally you hear he doesn't want to work hard, likes the NBA's money and fame, but not the work.. he is fragile and damaged emotionally from a professional standpoint..

What you're saying doesn't make sense. Why would Bargnani be in emotional decline if Mitchell was fired? Also if Mitchell was ordered to be hands off with Bargnani and he couldn't be tough with him, then why would Bargs be down emotionally? HOW DOES BEING CODDLED BREAK YOU EMOTIONALLY?

Everyone has their path to maturity and I think Bargnani appreciates this 2nd chance he has to get his career back on track. I think with our team and coaches AB will play much better and have a bounce back year. It's not about yelling at him or being tough so to speak. You can get players to perform without that crap. This idea that you need someone to yell and curse you just to play well is not true. Some of the most quiet and respectful coaches have won super bowls in the NFL, which is a much tougher sport.

I agree with Nix. Mitchell did have some success with his style and certainly was fiery but that yelling in your face style doesn't always work with some players. Mitchell's fiery style also led to an @ss beating at the hands of Vince Carter and a subsequent trade that got them little back from the Nets.

sure, but I guess in your face guys like brown, Pop and others should all get ass beatings because of their coaching style? I guess you advocate them getting choked like PJ carlisimo did by spree? is that what you are justifying? because bargnani has been a bust since he was drafted and sam was the last coach to get that team to the playoffs.. they brought in a coach to coddle bargnani... guess what they sucked under triano, and he is gone... coddle the player.. ruin the player...

sorry but you are way off here... Here is what happens when mitchell was able to "coach" a guy like calderon....

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/03/29/jose-calderons-rise-in-toronto-was-never-guaranteed-he-earned-it/

“There were times I purposely let Jose leave the gym guessing,” Mitchell, who was fired as Raptors coach in December 2008, recalled earlier this month. “And I wanted to see what he was going to do the next day when he came back. Was he going to curl up in a little corner and cry? Or was he going to come out and fight back? And fight harder, to show me?”

Calderon responded in a way that perhaps not even Mitchell could have imagined.

Huge difference, one had the stones to rise and respond, the other folded and needed coddling, needless to say to the detriment of his team and career..

I am not advocating players attack or fight their coach. I do think some guys have earned the respect of their players and can go there while others haven't and shouldn't. That doesn't mean I approve of a player going after his coach. I do think the pj incident and Mitchell incident were very different. I think Mitchell was challenging carter and carter accepted and rang his clock. Mitchell was the new guy and shouldn't have gone there. That doesn't mean carter was right.
I do have an insider story in regards to the spree incident. A friend of mine was a sports reporter in the Bay Area at the time this happened. His main beat was covering high school sports but he did cover the warriors a lot. He said when spree choked carlesimo the beat guys were almost happy about it because P.J. was such a jerk. He said the beat guys also didnt like P.J. because he didnt have the same media policy as Nelson. If you remember Nelson made all of his players accessible to the media. It caused the falling out between Nellie and weber. He also said spree wasn't a bad guy.
My guess is guys like pop, brown , Riley and Sloan can go there with most guys because they have earned their respect. When it doesn't work out like with Riley and shaq the player is shipped out quick. If that doesn't happen like with Sloan, Sloan left. PJ and Sam aren't those guys. Also, it always seems to be Sam telling the stories of how hard he was on guys. Players talk about the coaches you mentioned. They aren't out there saying what they did to this guy or that guy to give him a thick skin.

I think this just goes back to what I feel all along.. bargs is mentally soft, he will get killed here in NY.. I think he rather be playing in europe but the NBA dollars and fame keeps him here.... I honestly don't expect much from the guy... he has been coddled and his growth has been hindered because of that.

There is literally no reason that AB can't be successful here in NY. He's not going to have to carry the team. He doesn't have any known chronic injuries. He's in his prime and highly skilled. We have a good team and a good coaching staff that gets a lot out of the players we have. I understand the concerns people have about his last season but you can't assume that he's gonna play like a guy with an injured elbow as he did last year when he actually had an injured elbow.

yellowboy90 wrote:how do posters come up with this stuff? Why talk about what they don't know? It's pointless and makes them look foolish.

Part of the problem is that like Melo some fans don't like that the Knicks have been built using flawed players. They want the great 2 way players that other teams have. The thing is that there are so few of those guys and there's almost no way the Knicks can get them. Now what people also don't seem to give the Knicks credit for is that they have almost all of their big cap players coming off in 2 years. So there is going to be a reboot in 2 years. If this team doesn't win a title in the next 2 years they get to remake the team in a different direction if they choose.

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:how do posters come up with this stuff? Why talk about what they don't know? It's pointless and makes them look foolish.

Part of the problem is that like Melo some fans don't like that the Knicks have been built using flawed players. They want the great 2 way players that other teams have. The thing is that there are so few of those guys and there's almost no way the Knicks can get them. Now what people also don't seem to give the Knicks credit for is that they have almost all of their big cap players coming off in 2 years. So there is going to be a reboot in 2 years. If this team doesn't win a title in the next 2 years they get to remake the team in a different direction if they choose.

Agree. The Knicks are making adjustments based on the resources and cap space (or lack of) they currently have. You are not going to get a Paul George or Rondo for some scrap players and picks at the end of the draft. You are going to get flawed players with potential (at least in theory)..... you are going to pick up vet min guys who are also probably flawed in some way...or you are going to take a chance on younger guys who are mostly unproven.

Some want to blow it up now.....that does not seem reasonable when you can blow it up on 2 years anyway.

nixluva wrote:Man in the end TKF you can only guess at what's in the heart of Bargnani. You don't know him nor do you really know what went on with him in Toronto and his coaches. It could be that he had a couple of injuries in the last 2 years that limited his production and stunted his growth and there was growth over the previous 4 seasons before the last 2. I think it's gonna be good to have him get away from Toronto and start fresh here in NY.

There is literally no reason that AB can't be successful here in NY. He's not going to have to carry the team. He doesn't have any known chronic injuries. He's in his prime and highly skilled. We have a good team and a good coaching staff that gets a lot out of the players we have. I understand the concerns people have about his last season but you can't assume that he's gonna play like a guy with an injured elbow as he did last year when he actually had an injured elbow.

sure there is-- he doesn't defend the position. and his level of selfishness and inefficiency is borne out by the numbers he has posted his entire career. he is a classic negative-sum player.

additionally, woodson is not good at all at putting cohesive teams together, partly due to the mismatched and overlapping skills of his players but also due to his own narrow-minded approach and favoritism.

it makes for an ever-threatening toxic situation that no amount of baleful expressions, isolation plays and tin-plated regular-season records can cover up.

Anji wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:NIX I don't know if you can give the Knicks credit for having expiring contracts in 2yrs. These guys were signed for 5yrs and we are waiting for the 5yrs to expire so we can build a true contender. Certainly can't give the Knicks credit for signing Amare. Things look vey bleak considering we went through a decade of complete ineptitude before these 5yrs

That doesn't even come close to making sense.

IMO we' e been inept from 1999 to present 14yrs

Will be 16yrs before we have a chance to start over

Surprising considering the Knicks play at the Mecca of basketball

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:Man in the end TKF you can only guess at what's in the heart of Bargnani. You don't know him nor do you really know what went on with him in Toronto and his coaches. It could be that he had a couple of injuries in the last 2 years that limited his production and stunted his growth and there was growth over the previous 4 seasons before the last 2. I think it's gonna be good to have him get away from Toronto and start fresh here in NY.

There is literally no reason that AB can't be successful here in NY. He's not going to have to carry the team. He doesn't have any known chronic injuries. He's in his prime and highly skilled. We have a good team and a good coaching staff that gets a lot out of the players we have. I understand the concerns people have about his last season but you can't assume that he's gonna play like a guy with an injured elbow as he did last year when he actually had an injured elbow.

sure there is-- he doesn't defend the position. and his level of selfishness and inefficiency is borne out by the numbers he has posted his entire career. he is a classic negative-sum player.

additionally, woodson is not good at all at putting cohesive teams together, partly due to the mismatched and overlapping skills of his players but also due to his own narrow-minded approach and favoritism.

it makes for an ever-threatening toxic situation that no amount of baleful expressions, isolation plays and tin-plated regular-season records can cover up.

We didn't bring in Bargnani to be a defensive stopper. With regard to being an inefficient and selfish player, that's a bit strong. Yes he needs to be a bit more efficient, but I don't know if it's right to call him selfish. The way you turn around his production is going to be mostly in how you use him. As many of us have said the best way to help AB is to get him the ball near the basket more often and have him take fewer 3's.

I'll give you an example of how you change things up. For most of STAT's career he was the main PnR man. But once we got Tyson that changed and STAT had a different role. Then Woodson had STAT work on his post game and he used STAT more in the post. Aside from the time missed due to his knees, STAT actually showed he was very efficient working more in the post. STAT posted the highest FG% since his 2007-08 season 57.7% IT's about HOW a coach chooses to employ a player. Felton wasn't used as a PnR PG for much of his career but on the Knicks MDA had him work heavily in the PnR and it took time but once he got the hang of it, he produced his best season at 17 pts and 9 asts. A lot depends on the coach and how he uses a player.

With regard to Woodson, he's got his flaws, but he's also shown that he can get this team to win at a high rate. We've had more win streaks under Woodson than any coach in a long time. I was very impressed with how he had the team come out of camp last year. They were very sharp and team oriented. The team had great ball and player movement. He wasn't perfect but Woody did a lot of good things. I think his problem was that players he had planned to use in ways that made the offense more versatile broke down and that led to relying more on ISO plays than we should. He also got caught up in a lack of trust for using his bench players in the playoffs. Still I don't think Woody intended to be such an ISO heavy team at the end. He didn't have the team come out of camp that way.

knickscity wrote:Sorry fellas, if Bargnani is gonna get my respect he needs to change his entire attitude to the sport.

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/03/22/bargnani/

Bargnani is asked how he gets beat on the boards.

"Being lazy maybe," he says. "That's the only reason it can be. I've got the body, I've got everything to take 10 rebounds a game. It's just sometimes I get lazy."

He needs to fix that, obviously. He needs to play with more focus.

"Yeah," Bargnani agrees. "More focus. You said it. More focus and don't get lazy."

yeah, those are his words.