arkrud wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Donnie was doing ok until the Amare deal and not presenting a proper backup plan to Dolan after Lebron went to Miami. I'm not sure if its fair to kill Donnie for where the Knicks stand today though. The Knicks failed as an organization. Constantly changing plans since striking out on Lebron. Keeping Dantoni then adding Melo and Tyson. Not amnestying Amare. We are stuck with Amare. There is nothing to even talk about til 2015. The current team should play decent basketball now that they actually have a pg who can see the floor, make the right pass and actually hit an open jumpshot like an NBA pg. don't see us finishing any better than 5th though and 1st or 2nd rd exit unless we get it right after 2015

Donny did the team a disservice by not adding conditions to the contract like, an ability to play a specific amount of games per season. The report out of Phoenix said he would need more surgery within a year or so which proved prophetic. Instead, he signed a guy who was a huge injury risk without any sort of protection.

what would you have had walsh do instead? stoudemire says "no i won't agree to those terms i want a max guaranteed contract" and so he passes on stoudemire and does what instead in summer 2010?

to me it's dolan's money at stake at that point and really nothing else. therefore it is what occurs SUBSEQUENT to that investment, poor or not, that counts.

The entire plan was wrong. If you want to dissect what Walsh should have done you start with the coach he hired and his first draft and move on from there. He was desperate and had to come away with something after fleecing the franchise of talent and picks. When you ask, What would you have done? My answer would be a lot of things differently so that I wasn't in that situation.

i don't see the fleecing that you see i see clearing out isiah thomas's garbage in as short a time as possible. kind of like hercules's first labor of clearing out the augean stables.

then i would have hired mark jackson.

I agree about Jackson. I think the coaching hire influenced the draft picks taken. I think the McGrady trade was horrific and I think the way D'Antoni handled the 09'-10 season and the roster should have cost him his job.

Mark Jackson and Dolan... LOL
Mark is not an idiot to work for Dolan and MSG.
He is a guy with integrity and will not be anyonce bitch.
Walsh was there because his heart was hurting about what a joke Dolan/IT and their chronies made out of the game of basketball in NY.
At his age and his carier track he does not give a sht of what anyone thinks.
And D'Antony was there because of his ego. He regeret it very fast and was trying to get out desperately... but Dolan refused to see the signals.

Very nice fable. Back in the real world sports executives and coaches get paid somewhat handsomely to do a job. They all have egos in that they believe they are the ones who will "get it done". Walsh and MDA were better than IT and his cadre of coaches, however they still failed to get it done. This does not take any blame off of Dolan. However it does not canonnonize Walsh to sainthood either. At the end of the day, the coach he brought in eventually quit mid-season, Walsh left the team with a broken $20 million dollar PF/C, several draft picks were sent out and the team was bereft of much of the back up talent that he tried to amass when IT left.

I find it silly to lament about Dolan. He is the owner and that will not change. Our hope is that the people he picks to run Basketball are strong enough or smart enough to enhance any positives that Dolan brings to the table and work around any negatives. Walsh was not that guy.

dk7th wrote:

arkrud wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Donnie was doing ok until the Amare deal and not presenting a proper backup plan to Dolan after Lebron went to Miami. I'm not sure if its fair to kill Donnie for where the Knicks stand today though. The Knicks failed as an organization. Constantly changing plans since striking out on Lebron. Keeping Dantoni then adding Melo and Tyson. Not amnestying Amare. We are stuck with Amare. There is nothing to even talk about til 2015. The current team should play decent basketball now that they actually have a pg who can see the floor, make the right pass and actually hit an open jumpshot like an NBA pg. don't see us finishing any better than 5th though and 1st or 2nd rd exit unless we get it right after 2015

Donny did the team a disservice by not adding conditions to the contract like, an ability to play a specific amount of games per season. The report out of Phoenix said he would need more surgery within a year or so which proved prophetic. Instead, he signed a guy who was a huge injury risk without any sort of protection.

what would you have had walsh do instead? stoudemire says "no i won't agree to those terms i want a max guaranteed contract" and so he passes on stoudemire and does what instead in summer 2010?

to me it's dolan's money at stake at that point and really nothing else. therefore it is what occurs SUBSEQUENT to that investment, poor or not, that counts.

The entire plan was wrong. If you want to dissect what Walsh should have done you start with the coach he hired and his first draft and move on from there. He was desperate and had to come away with something after fleecing the franchise of talent and picks. When you ask, What would you have done? My answer would be a lot of things differently so that I wasn't in that situation.

i don't see the fleecing that you see i see clearing out isiah thomas's garbage in as short a time as possible. kind of like hercules's first labor of clearing out the augean stables.

then i would have hired mark jackson.

I agree about Jackson. I think the coaching hire influenced the draft picks taken. I think the McGrady trade was horrific and I think the way D'Antoni handled the 09'-10 season and the roster should have cost him his job.

Mark Jackson and Dolan... LOL
Mark is not an idiot to work for Dolan and MSG.
He is a guy with integrity and will not be anyonce bitch.
Walsh was there because his heart was hurting about what a joke Dolan/IT and their chronies made out of the game of basketball in NY.
At his age and his carier track he does not give a sht of what anyone thinks.
And D'Antony was there because of his ego. He regeret it very fast and was trying to get out desperately... but Dolan refused to see the signals.

where the rubber meets the road i think you're right about the impossibility of jackson working for dolan. as i have said many times, an inferior lowlife like dolan does not tolerate his betters for very long.

also lets not forget that the first two years were throwaway phony campaigns as walsh cleared out isiah's mess. would jackson have been prepared to hang on through hopeless situations like d'antoni?

smackeddog wrote:The reason we hired D'Antoni was:

1) to inflate our players stats and value, to make them more tradeable.
2) Attract FA's for when we finally got cap space- a lot of players used to think his system was fun and that he was a players coach. Not sure he's as popular as he used to be.

It wasn't about winning.

CrushAlot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:The reason we hired D'Antoni was:

1) to inflate our players stats and value, to make them more tradeable.
2) Attract FA's for when we finally got cap space- a lot of players used to think his system was fun and that he was a players coach. Not sure he's as popular as he used to be.

It wasn't about winning.

I think it was his big name also. Too bad he didn't elevate Jordan Hill's value.

Or Landry? DLee? Moz? ExtraE? Novak? Lin?............These guys did pretty well.

MDA stood up and kicked Marbury off the team.

Lamenting Jordan Hill? Dude did not pan out. Is he starting anywhere? Injury prone? What did MDA not do that he got turned around?

BTW, I don't think Jennings would have turned the franchise around.

Pop cut Danny Green once and dude eventually figured things out. Sometimes its the coach, often its the player.

Damn, look at me getting sucked into an old ass arguement.

Ok, yeah, MDA sucked and its all his fault too!!!!

My point is ever coach gets their pet project favorites and others rub them the wrong way.

I you look at the moment the decision is made, instead of hindsight the view is often different.

Sorry I chimed in to an old arguement!