Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:He's an OK player. His defensive #s are really bad but he helps on offense. I don't expect him to make a big difference but he's worth the league min.

Man you've got to stop thinking of players in a vacuum. It's like you look at the personal numbers and don't pay attention to the actual impact they can have on the team. I think you have a very flawed take on how this move plays into the way the Knicks will function. For one thing tell me how does Prigs look in the stat sheet as a player in a vacuum? Not good at all!!! However, his actual impact on the way the team plays is greater than his stats and Kidd had a similar positive impact earlier in the season.

Think of what these players do in terms of the Hockey assist before the assist. Often its the pass before the pass that leads to the score that is most important. The Knicks have a very specific way they play based on the flaws of the teams top scorers. We have to find other ways to make the team more efficient and part of that is having guards that can make intelligent decisions with the ball and able to knock down the open 3. Our guards also have to be able to run PnR at a high level but not be shot happy.

Now the Knicks have 2 very smart, high BB IQ PG's again, but Beno has more left in the tank than Kidd did. That's something that worked great for the Knicks and they clearly want to repeat that this year, but to have more endurance at the position than we did last year.

The guy who always overestimates the Knicks win totals by at least ten says I have a very flawed outlook! Thanks!

Typical punk response. Doesn't even begin to address my post but that's OK. Guessing Season win totals mean next to nothing. It's a guess and I tend to guess a bit higher than some. Big deal. What does that have to do with a PLAYER EVALUATION??? Stick to the topic.

The reason the Knicks wanted Beno isn't based on personal stats. There are PG's who could put up bigger numbers but not really fit into the team concept in the same way. We saw how that worked last year with Kidd and Prigs helping the team play winning BB. Kidd was just too old, but the idea was right. Now they want to repeat that kind of chemistry but with a player who should be able to endure an entire season without breaking down like Kidd did. This team needs brains on the court and guys willing to keep the ball moving and making the right decision with the ball.

You started a post by telling me what to do (and what not to do). What kind of response did you expect? Why do I have to stop looking at stats? Maybe you have to stop drastically overrating context?

STILL NOTHING? At least try to address my points or do you just want to insult one aspect of my posting here as if that covers everything i've written about over the years. Nothing else i've ever wrote matters, just my season predictions. Try to address the issue at hand and don't fall into the same lame ass attacks others with less intellect have resorted to when debating with me.

I'm not saying stats are meaningless. My point is that you have to look beyond that with certain players. Some players are more than their stats. ie KG. His intangibles are HUGE. He changes a lockerroom. There are always other things to look at besides individual stats. That was the idea behind Kidd and Prigs proved that as well last year. I think you know i'm right but you can't admit it because I challenged your point. Well grow up. I have my issues with picking season win totals and you have your issue here with seeing anything other than pure statistical value. We can call it even in terms of weaknesses.

No, I simply stopped reading when you said to ignore stats and history and look at vague things like "context." You're just citing a bunch of vague things like "team concept," "chemistry," etc. that make it easier for you to continue your wet dream that every player we acquire will become awesome.

Still with the lame responses. You seem intent on ignoring the fact that it's well known that Prigs had a positive effect on his teammates despite posting underwhelming personal stats. Kidd also had a positive effect on how the team played when he was on the floor, before he broke down. It's obvious what Grunwald is trying to do with signing Beno. He wants to recreate that kind of positive effect and at the same time it helps the locker room with adding another foreign born player so that they don't feel isolated. It's a very smart move.

Beno knows how to play smart BB. He'll move the ball, can run PnR/PnP, is a good midrange jump shooter and he's got tons of experience playing in a great organization like the Spurs. Those intangible things will really help. You could put a younger and more dynamic PG in there who is capable of scoring better but that doesn't mean that young PG will make the right decision with the ball at the right moment. Individual PG stats won't tell you the whole story with the PG position for the Knicks. As I said it didn't with Prigs and Kidd last year. Both PG's did little things that just lead to wins for the Knicks last year but didn't show up in the box score for them individually.

No, I would readily agree that Pablo and Kidd played well (and the stats actually *do* support that). I also never criticized Beno's offensive game.

Of course some things are quantifiable by the stats, but my point is that they don't put up big impressive numbers. That's what people mean by Stats telling the story for certain players. The biggest impact for Prigs and Beno isn't going to be their personal stats but the impact they have on the rest of the team. For some PG's it's very important that they put up big numbers cuz that's how they help their team the best. Some PG's don't really make other players better in the same way. Felton is good at scoring and in the PnR but out side of that he does very little to run a team. Getting players to be in the right spots executing the plays effectively and making timely decisions. Knowing when to slow it down or speed things up. Not forcing it and sometimes taking what the defense gives are all small things you can't always quantify with a stat.

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

Clean wrote:

tkf wrote:I think beno will be better than prigs... which is why I didn't like giving prigs a dime more..

No one could have thought we would have gotten Beno for the Min. I do think maybe Nate would have been better other signing if we knew we would get Beno later. I don't care about that anymore I am just happy we got a guy I have been wanting for a few years now.

well maybe not beno, but look at the list I posted days ago, there were other options better than prigs IMO.... Dj augustine being one of them..

What do you see in DJ Augustine? I thought he's the type of player you usually dislike- I think Prigs is a lot better than him- better passer, defender and intangibles. Not sure what Augustine offers.

Dj's value is simple; he's not on the MeloKnicks.
tkf can provide page long lists of players he'd rather have.

nixluva wrote:Beno is a STEAL at the minimum! He was making $7 mil last year. He definitely didn't come here for the money. He came here for a chance to win and he has a legit chance to play meaningful minutes. The Knicks needed a brain on the floor so that Felton can focus on what he does best. Felton isn't a pure PG, he's more of a SG and thank God he learned how to run PnR under MDA or else he'd really be exposed for his lack of court vision. In any event this allows the Knicks to have much improved ball movement outside of the ISO plays we run so much of. Our Bigs need good PG play. This will help to support AB to get back to his full potential. Same goes for STAT whenever he's in there. STAT needs good passing PG's. Prigs and Beno should be able to keep feeding our finishers and shooters.

Knicks fans should appreciate this move.. Beno is a heady pg, plus he can shoot efficiently... defense is shabby, but still a steal in terms of value.

Tim Hardaway Je, CJ Leslie and Jeremy Tyler are our new yoots. All are 22. Tyler qualifies as a draft pick and Leslie fell through the cracks. Good for us. Good for Grunwald.

Entering a statement season, I man Shumpert completes the nineties babies.

Eighties babies; Anthony, Bargnani, Chandler, Felton, Smith, Stoudemire,

The old heads are Kenyon Martin, Ron Artest and Pablo Prigioni - each born in the seventies. Contributions from these three extend beyond the court. Prigioni loves New York and can help Uhrih and Bargnani adjust. The Artest formerly known as Ron can mentor CJ Leslie. Kenyon Martin can school Jeremy Tyler in practice.

Saturday Night Fever anyone?

We could use another big man. Hamed Haddadi would be perfect and adds to the international appeal. Tyson Chandler could use the rest.

smackeddog wrote:Must admit, I'm happy we signed him and he's a better player, but I'd do feel a bit bad for Bobby Brown- he was desperate to be a Knick and has been holding out hope for a while now- sad to see a guys dreams get crushed.

yeah, I was pulling for Bobby to make the cut. I like Beno but, he can't guard a turn style but, then again, Brown might be a defensive liability too. Can Beno hit the 3?

arguing about the merits of DJ Augustine - lmao

smackeddog wrote:Tommy Beer pointed out Grunnies cheap pick ups the last few seasons: Lin, Novak, K-Mart, Udrih, Cope, Pablo, MWP and JR. That's a superb record.

Yeah he's been pretty good. I think they learned a lot last year despite the breakdown of the AARP Crew. This time they still tried to add vets but went a little younger all the way around. I really like this roster. It makes sense and you can see how they will try to fit these players into the rotation over the course of the season. They established a style of play that they want to continue and even enhance this year. For that you MUST have solid PG play. When Kidd broke down it really hurt the team a lot. Felton getting injured also had an impact. So we've got to make sure we have a strong PG contingent. Rather than another big, I'd rather the Knicks add Toure Murry just in case.