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Andrea "Il Mago" (The Magician) Bargnani Appreciation
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DurzoBlint
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7/1/2013  11:34 AM
Moonangie wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:It's a fine gamble if we aren't giving up 3 picks. But we are.

U think we could have gotten a first overall pick for Novak and Camby??

I did not say that

If we aren't giving picks then we would have gotten Bargnani for free. Novak and Camby aren't viewed as positives. As much as free would be great, you actually have to give away something to get something back. Just can't get players for free typically. Getting Bargnani for 1 late first round pick and 2 late second round picks, and getting rid of the last year of Novak's contract is a steal.

+1. Getting out of Novak's contract is a HUGE plus to this deal. If Bargs works out, we got a steal. If not, we got a better shot at rebooting in '15. A big who shoots is better than a big who sits + a wing shooter who shuts down in the playoffs.

I like this deal...tentatively, but still think it was worthwhile for the 2015 benefit.

YESSSSSSSS

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
AUTOADVERT
Vmart
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7/1/2013  11:41 AM
I know why they call him the Magician, he is a giant disappearing act.
Vmart
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7/1/2013  11:42 AM
JamesKPolk wrote:This is the Bargnani you will see a lot of:

I swear he looks like he guarding the ref.

JayNYC
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7/1/2013  11:48 AM
DurzoBlint wrote:
JayNYC wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
JayNYC wrote:
Andrew wrote:
JayNYC wrote:hahaha did you just nice try me.. ALL JOKES ASIDE, I ain't gotta make this up .. MEN LIE, WOMAN LIE.. NUMBERS DONT. Looking at his numbers 43 % Career FG 36% 3PT RANGE. NEVER AVG'D MORE THAN 5 BOARDS.. NO DIMES. I didn't even look at his stats til you called me out, But I'm on point.. #FACTS

Apparently men who can't read stats do lie though.

Bargs has averaged more than 5 boards 4 different seasons. But really that's not the point. He's being brought in for a backup role, and for insurance for Amare. Camby and Novak were providing nothing in the playoffs, so why not take a chance. The move is a gamble, and after 2 years his contract comes off the books.


Hahaha. Let me be clear.. for his career he averages less than 5 boards per game.. As a 7ft 260 man that is horrendous! I keep telling folks ... you've just prove'n my argument. I don't hate the move when considering his role, and ability to give NYK a more conventional lineup. The reason i continue this debate is simply based on the idea of it being a lateral move. He is Amare .. trading picks away are reminiscent of years past. Mortgaging the future, for players with problem as a stop gag solution. I never once said i am opposed to acquiring him for Camby or Novak. They weren't factors here.. but i'm not gonna go over hype him like some other people on your UK boards either. The numbers are what they are.. you read em' why skew the argument. Accept it! 2015-2016 free agency cap space only matter if this organization makes a move that produces a winner.

I kind of like the trade because, in your words, 'He is Amare'. I don't want to rely on Amar'e for a full season. Do you? Not really a Bargs fan but I can see him fitting in here


It's not a matter of wanting to rely on STAT.. I think most overstand his struggle. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH TRADING CAMBY OR NOVAK .. not my issue, it's the picks and .. we overpaid in my opinion. Its crazy that most are ignoring that notion. As far as statistics .. I gave his numbers to show those that believe him as being an outerwordly talent that they are overestimating his worth. You've got people saying that he's not here as insurance for Amare.. in effort to justify there stance. Keep it 100%

Overpaid by giving up what will be a late 1st round pick. This guys is worth a late 1st round pick. 2nd round picks and Dolan has shown he has no problem buying 2nd round picks...you guys are reaching for reasons to complain. WE also opened up the roster spot for Purp who I expect to see signed next.

Seeing as though you believe that I am reaching for reason to complain .. please show me factual data that validates him being worthy of a 1st rd pick and second rders! Use that same logic, and show me how NYK can flip Amare for half those assets.. statistically Amare is better right? Varying degrees of injury but both have problems staying on the court.. Amare's production was better than Bargnani even last yr with supposed career ending injury.

Inhale deep like the words of my breath/ I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death-- Circa 1994 Nasty Nas: NY State of Mind
DurzoBlint
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7/1/2013  11:54 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/1/2013  11:55 AM
JayNYC wrote:
DurzoBlint wrote:
JayNYC wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
JayNYC wrote:
Andrew wrote:
JayNYC wrote:hahaha did you just nice try me.. ALL JOKES ASIDE, I ain't gotta make this up .. MEN LIE, WOMAN LIE.. NUMBERS DONT. Looking at his numbers 43 % Career FG 36% 3PT RANGE. NEVER AVG'D MORE THAN 5 BOARDS.. NO DIMES. I didn't even look at his stats til you called me out, But I'm on point.. #FACTS

Apparently men who can't read stats do lie though.

Bargs has averaged more than 5 boards 4 different seasons. But really that's not the point. He's being brought in for a backup role, and for insurance for Amare. Camby and Novak were providing nothing in the playoffs, so why not take a chance. The move is a gamble, and after 2 years his contract comes off the books.


Hahaha. Let me be clear.. for his career he averages less than 5 boards per game.. As a 7ft 260 man that is horrendous! I keep telling folks ... you've just prove'n my argument. I don't hate the move when considering his role, and ability to give NYK a more conventional lineup. The reason i continue this debate is simply based on the idea of it being a lateral move. He is Amare .. trading picks away are reminiscent of years past. Mortgaging the future, for players with problem as a stop gag solution. I never once said i am opposed to acquiring him for Camby or Novak. They weren't factors here.. but i'm not gonna go over hype him like some other people on your UK boards either. The numbers are what they are.. you read em' why skew the argument. Accept it! 2015-2016 free agency cap space only matter if this organization makes a move that produces a winner.

I kind of like the trade because, in your words, 'He is Amare'. I don't want to rely on Amar'e for a full season. Do you? Not really a Bargs fan but I can see him fitting in here


It's not a matter of wanting to rely on STAT.. I think most overstand his struggle. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH TRADING CAMBY OR NOVAK .. not my issue, it's the picks and .. we overpaid in my opinion. Its crazy that most are ignoring that notion. As far as statistics .. I gave his numbers to show those that believe him as being an outerwordly talent that they are overestimating his worth. You've got people saying that he's not here as insurance for Amare.. in effort to justify there stance. Keep it 100%

Overpaid by giving up what will be a late 1st round pick. This guys is worth a late 1st round pick. 2nd round picks and Dolan has shown he has no problem buying 2nd round picks...you guys are reaching for reasons to complain. WE also opened up the roster spot for Purp who I expect to see signed next.

Seeing as though you believe that I am reaching for reason to complain .. please show me factual data that validates him being worthy of a 1st rd pick and second rders! Use that same logic, and show me how NYK can flip Amare for half those assets.. statistically Amare is better right? Varying degrees of injury but both have problems staying on the court.. Amare's production was better than Bargnani even last yr with supposed career ending injury.

he averaged 20pts a games before the injury That alone validates the 1st rounder added since it would be a very late pick. Last 2seasons (not 3) have been underwhelming but, the potential is there and considering it would be a LATE 1st round pick, potential is about all you can get and likely NOT someone who will or has averaged 20pts a game. Also, as I said, 2nd rounder can be brought and Dolan has shown he has no problem doing so.

You comment about Amare is ridiculous because Bargs does NOT knees that can't be insured and hadn't had MULTIPLE surgeries either so, we couldn't flip him (Amare) for a flapjack.

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
JayNYC
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7/1/2013  12:11 PM
DurzoBlint wrote:
JayNYC wrote:
DurzoBlint wrote:
JayNYC wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
JayNYC wrote:
Andrew wrote:
JayNYC wrote:hahaha did you just nice try me.. ALL JOKES ASIDE, I ain't gotta make this up .. MEN LIE, WOMAN LIE.. NUMBERS DONT. Looking at his numbers 43 % Career FG 36% 3PT RANGE. NEVER AVG'D MORE THAN 5 BOARDS.. NO DIMES. I didn't even look at his stats til you called me out, But I'm on point.. #FACTS

Apparently men who can't read stats do lie though.

Bargs has averaged more than 5 boards 4 different seasons. But really that's not the point. He's being brought in for a backup role, and for insurance for Amare. Camby and Novak were providing nothing in the playoffs, so why not take a chance. The move is a gamble, and after 2 years his contract comes off the books.


Hahaha. Let me be clear.. for his career he averages less than 5 boards per game.. As a 7ft 260 man that is horrendous! I keep telling folks ... you've just prove'n my argument. I don't hate the move when considering his role, and ability to give NYK a more conventional lineup. The reason i continue this debate is simply based on the idea of it being a lateral move. He is Amare .. trading picks away are reminiscent of years past. Mortgaging the future, for players with problem as a stop gag solution. I never once said i am opposed to acquiring him for Camby or Novak. They weren't factors here.. but i'm not gonna go over hype him like some other people on your UK boards either. The numbers are what they are.. you read em' why skew the argument. Accept it! 2015-2016 free agency cap space only matter if this organization makes a move that produces a winner.

I kind of like the trade because, in your words, 'He is Amare'. I don't want to rely on Amar'e for a full season. Do you? Not really a Bargs fan but I can see him fitting in here


It's not a matter of wanting to rely on STAT.. I think most overstand his struggle. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH TRADING CAMBY OR NOVAK .. not my issue, it's the picks and .. we overpaid in my opinion. Its crazy that most are ignoring that notion. As far as statistics .. I gave his numbers to show those that believe him as being an outerwordly talent that they are overestimating his worth. You've got people saying that he's not here as insurance for Amare.. in effort to justify there stance. Keep it 100%

Overpaid by giving up what will be a late 1st round pick. This guys is worth a late 1st round pick. 2nd round picks and Dolan has shown he has no problem buying 2nd round picks...you guys are reaching for reasons to complain. WE also opened up the roster spot for Purp who I expect to see signed next.

Seeing as though you believe that I am reaching for reason to complain .. please show me factual data that validates him being worthy of a 1st rd pick and second rders! Use that same logic, and show me how NYK can flip Amare for half those assets.. statistically Amare is better right? Varying degrees of injury but both have problems staying on the court.. Amare's production was better than Bargnani even last yr with supposed career ending injury.

he averaged 20pts a games before the injury That alone validates the 1st rounder added since it would be a very late pick. Last 2seasons (not 3) have been underwhelming but, the potential is there and considering it would be a LATE 1st round pick, potential is about all you can get and likely NOT someone who will or has averaged 20pts a game. Also, as I said, 2nd rounder can be brought and Dolan has shown he has no problem doing so.

You comment about Amare is ridiculous because Bargs does NOT knees that can't be insured and hadn't had MULTIPLE surgeries either so, we couldn't flip him (Amare) for a flapjack.


Do you realize that is a double standard! Amare has averaged way more than 20 per gm.. was in the conversation for MVP a few seasons back. The fact that he has surgery.. Can't negate his scoring prowess. You are not validating your belief that Bargnani is worth trading picks away for by dismissing STAT in my opinion.. its empty rhetoric! He can't stay healthy eithier so if one aint worth trading picks for why would the other inferior player be worth it?
Inhale deep like the words of my breath/ I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death-- Circa 1994 Nasty Nas: NY State of Mind
nixluva
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7/1/2013  2:38 PM
You also have to remember that STAT's usage rate was thru the roof when he came to the Knicks. Neither Bargs nor STAT will have the same high level of usage on this team. That's a good thing. One thing tho, can we stop with this idea that Bargs is a huge injury problem? Someone tell me the major surgeries that Bargs has had? What's wrong with him? Is it his knees? His Back? Dude had a calf injury in the Lockout season and he fell on his arm after a dunk attempt and hurt his elbow. That's not really injury prone. That's just bad luck. It could happen to anyone.
DurzoBlint
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7/1/2013  2:40 PM
JayNYC wrote:
DurzoBlint wrote:
JayNYC wrote:
DurzoBlint wrote:
JayNYC wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
JayNYC wrote:
Andrew wrote:
JayNYC wrote:hahaha did you just nice try me.. ALL JOKES ASIDE, I ain't gotta make this up .. MEN LIE, WOMAN LIE.. NUMBERS DONT. Looking at his numbers 43 % Career FG 36% 3PT RANGE. NEVER AVG'D MORE THAN 5 BOARDS.. NO DIMES. I didn't even look at his stats til you called me out, But I'm on point.. #FACTS

Apparently men who can't read stats do lie though.

Bargs has averaged more than 5 boards 4 different seasons. But really that's not the point. He's being brought in for a backup role, and for insurance for Amare. Camby and Novak were providing nothing in the playoffs, so why not take a chance. The move is a gamble, and after 2 years his contract comes off the books.


Hahaha. Let me be clear.. for his career he averages less than 5 boards per game.. As a 7ft 260 man that is horrendous! I keep telling folks ... you've just prove'n my argument. I don't hate the move when considering his role, and ability to give NYK a more conventional lineup. The reason i continue this debate is simply based on the idea of it being a lateral move. He is Amare .. trading picks away are reminiscent of years past. Mortgaging the future, for players with problem as a stop gag solution. I never once said i am opposed to acquiring him for Camby or Novak. They weren't factors here.. but i'm not gonna go over hype him like some other people on your UK boards either. The numbers are what they are.. you read em' why skew the argument. Accept it! 2015-2016 free agency cap space only matter if this organization makes a move that produces a winner.

I kind of like the trade because, in your words, 'He is Amare'. I don't want to rely on Amar'e for a full season. Do you? Not really a Bargs fan but I can see him fitting in here


It's not a matter of wanting to rely on STAT.. I think most overstand his struggle. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH TRADING CAMBY OR NOVAK .. not my issue, it's the picks and .. we overpaid in my opinion. Its crazy that most are ignoring that notion. As far as statistics .. I gave his numbers to show those that believe him as being an outerwordly talent that they are overestimating his worth. You've got people saying that he's not here as insurance for Amare.. in effort to justify there stance. Keep it 100%

Overpaid by giving up what will be a late 1st round pick. This guys is worth a late 1st round pick. 2nd round picks and Dolan has shown he has no problem buying 2nd round picks...you guys are reaching for reasons to complain. WE also opened up the roster spot for Purp who I expect to see signed next.

Seeing as though you believe that I am reaching for reason to complain .. please show me factual data that validates him being worthy of a 1st rd pick and second rders! Use that same logic, and show me how NYK can flip Amare for half those assets.. statistically Amare is better right? Varying degrees of injury but both have problems staying on the court.. Amare's production was better than Bargnani even last yr with supposed career ending injury.

he averaged 20pts a games before the injury That alone validates the 1st rounder added since it would be a very late pick. Last 2seasons (not 3) have been underwhelming but, the potential is there and considering it would be a LATE 1st round pick, potential is about all you can get and likely NOT someone who will or has averaged 20pts a game. Also, as I said, 2nd rounder can be brought and Dolan has shown he has no problem doing so.

You comment about Amare is ridiculous because Bargs does NOT knees that can't be insured and hadn't had MULTIPLE surgeries either so, we couldn't flip him (Amare) for a flapjack.


Do you realize that is a double standard! Amare has averaged way more than 20 per gm.. was in the conversation for MVP a few seasons back. The fact that he has surgery.. Can't negate his scoring prowess. You are not validating your belief that Bargnani is worth trading picks away for by dismissing STAT in my opinion.. its empty rhetoric! He can't stay healthy eithier so if one aint worth trading picks for why would the other inferior player be worth it?

what scoring prowess. You have to be on the floor to score and Amare has proven every year but year one that he can't say on the floor. Every year he gets injured early in the season and again towards the middle or end. His days as a reliable option are over. That's my opinion by the way, not a fact

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
DurzoBlint
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7/1/2013  2:43 PM
nixluva wrote:You also have to remember that STAT's usage rate was thru the roof when he came to the Knicks. Neither Bargs nor STAT will have the same high level of usage on this team. That's a good thing. One thing tho, can we stop with this idea that Bargs is a huge injury problem? Someone tell me the major surgeries that Bargs has had? What's wrong with him? Is it his knees? His Back? Dude had a calf injury in the Lockout season and he fell on his arm after a dunk attempt and hurt his elbow. That's not really injury prone. That's just bad luck. It could happen to anyone.

does anyone know IF he is finally healthy (Bargs that is, not Amare)

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
Knixkik
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7/1/2013  5:29 PM
I have to say i am really warming up to the idea of Bargs being our 2nd option. Just seems like a situation where he can be very good if everything is in order. He is clearly a situation guy where he will be very successful if in the right scenario. Melo asked for help and considering the market and our lack of assets, i think this is a pretty good get. Bargs compliments Melo very well and can definitely be a 18/6 type player as a nice 2nd option to Melo. He can play the 3 on offense and 4 on defense, satisfying the debate for what position to use Melo at. This is a very good move and improves us a lot if we have good health.
Markji
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7/1/2013  5:33 PM
Here's a Ball Don't Lie take on the trade. And I think this is why a lot of us are unhappy with the trade and how much we had to give up. Even tho the picks are late round picks.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/york-knicks-trading-andrea-bargnani-because-course-155517381.html

While former Raptors personnel boss Bryan Colangelo was inexorably tied to Bargnani after not only drafting him first overall in 2006 but also giving him a (head-scratching, even at the time) five-year, $50 million extension in the summer of 2009, a new Raps regime led by recently hired former Denver Nuggets general manager and reigning NBA Executive of the Year Masai Ujiri had no such sentimental attachment; after taking the Raptors' reins on June 1, Ujiri reportedly made moving Bargnani his "first order of business."

There was quite a bit of skepticism as to whether he'd actually be able to complete that business, though, for several reasons:

• Bargnani has two years and nearly $22.3 million remaining on his current contract;

Everyone knew the Raptors were desperate to move him, not only because Ujiri (and Colangelo before him) had openly said so, but also because it seemed untenable to bring Bargnani back to a city where he'd begun hearing more boos than cheers and where player, team and fan-base all appeared ready to move on months before he suffered a right elbow injury that ended his 2012-13 season;

• And, most importantly, Bargnani hasn't really been very, or any, good for the past couple of seasons.

He has always been a very poor defender, with insufficient strength to battle bruising power forwards and centers in the post and too little foot speed to stay with speedier threes and fours on the perimeter. He's also been something of a space cadet as a helper in Toronto's team defensive schemes; the Raptors have allowed more points per possession with Bargnani on the floor than off it in each of the last six seasons, according to NBA.com's stat tool. (On/off-court data isn't available for Bargnani's rookie season.)

He grabs an astoundingly low share of available rebounds for a 7-footer, a persistent problem that reached its nadir last season, when he posted a lower rebound rate (7.6 percent of possible caroms) than the average small forward/shooting guard and the lowest of any power forward to play at least 10 games and average at least 10 minutes per game. He's not an especially gifted facilitator, averaging 1.5 assists per 36 minutes over the course of his seven-year career; this is extra bad when you consider that he averages two turnovers per-36.

These faults — the defensive liability, the absent rebounding, the underwhelming playmaking — are generally accepted truths about Bargnani's game through a 444-game NBA sample, and unlikely to meaningfully improve at the age of 27. To whatever extent he has made up for those flaws throughout his career, it's been as a result of a deep shooting stroke that can draw opposing big men out of the paint; he shot 37.6 percent from 3-point range through his first four NBA seasons, exploding just often enough to keep alive the hope that he'd figure out how to become a consistent and reliable offensive focal point.
As he took on more responsibility and took more shots in the Raptors' offense over the last three seasons, though, his accuracy and efficiency dwindled. He shot a tick under 40 percent from the floor and 31 percent from deep last season, due in part to a pair of injuries to his shooting elbow and partly, perhaps, to a seeming disinterest in getting in shape.

With that long-range stroke and scoring acumen falling by the wayside, there really wasn't too much left to Bargnani — if he couldn't carry his share of the offensive load, he was just an overpaid, underperforming albatross with no place in a Toronto future that will be built on frontcourts featuring Rudy Gay, Amir Johnson and Jonas Valanciunas. He was an afterthought whom most observers figured would net zero actual value in trade, and who was considered among the league's most likely candidates to be jettisoned via the CBA's amnesty provision.

So, y'know, enter the Knicks.

You can certainly make the argument (as some have) that the Knicks didn't lose a ton of on-court value in the deal, considering age and injury limited the 39-year-old Camby to just 253 minutes in his return season to New York and that Novak — while a more accurate and less expensive 3-point shooter than Bargnani — completely fell out of coach Mike Woodson's rotation in the postseason. You can make the argument (as some have) that a fresh start in a new city with a new role could be just what the doctor ordered for Bargnani, that working with shooting coach Dave Hopla could help Bargnani rediscover his rhythm and that a long spring, summer and fall to get healthy could do wonders for the former top overall pick.

These are possibilities; Bargnani does still have talent, after all. Still, it's difficult to see how adding Bargnani to the mix meaningfully moves the needle in a positive direction for the Knicks.

While the Knicks were repeatedly victimized by the size and interior strength of the Indiana Pacers in their six-game second-round playoff loss, Bargnani doesn't offer much in the way of rim protection, low-post muscle or in-the-paint grit; he also doesn't figure to improve what was a middling defense in terms of points allowed per possession last season. Given how successful the Knicks were last season with Carmelo Anthony at the power forward spot, it seems like the prudent move would be to bring Bargnani off the bench to provide an offensive boost; then again, the Knicks still employ Amar'e Stoudemire, and while you can kind of get on board with the idea of Amar'e operating out of the post while Andrea spaces the floor, the idea of defensive units pairing Stoudemire and Bargnani is likely already giving Knicks fans nightmares.

Plus, while Bargnani profiles as a stretch four in today's NBA, meaning his addition would seem to jive (to some degree) with the small-ball identity the Knicks fashioned last year, if the addition of another power forward winds up pushing Anthony down to small forward more often, that would seem to run counter to the Melo-at-the-four plus one big and three shooters/playmakers strategy. So while the Knicks might not have given up much on-court value in the swap, they might not have added much, either.

And then, of course, you think about the future.

The 2016 first-round pick the Knicks will give up for Bargnani had already been included in a prior trade with Ujiri, as Denver received the right to swap '16 first-rounders with New York in the deal that brought Anthony to Manhattan. The Knicks gave up their 2014 first-rounder in that deal, too, and sent off next year's second-round pick, as part of the 2012 deal that sent Toney Douglas, Josh Harrellson and Jerome Jordan to the Houston Rockets for Marcus Camby.

The two second-rounders the Knicks will reportedly send Toronto include a '14 selection they received from the Oklahoma City Thunder for Ronnie Brewer at this past February's trade deadline; the Knicks own the rights to one more '14 second-rounder, which once belonged to the Sacramento Kings but went to the Boston Celtics in 2009, then was conveyed to New York as part of the Nate Robinson deal in 2010, but New York only gets that pick if it falls between picks No. 56 and 60, which means they're not likely to see it. That means the Knicks will most likely be without a draft choice in what some have projected to be the deepest draft in years. The Knicks have also given up their second-rounders in '15 (in the Houston deal) and '16 (in the trade that brought Raymond Felton back from the Portland Trail Blazers). New York's 2017 second-rounder will go to the Raptors, for Bargnani, too.

It's true that draft picks don't always fulfill their promise; you absolutely don't have to remind Knicks fans of that. But teams that are over the salary cap and luxury tax — the Knicks are on the books for more than $77 million this year and next before this deal goes through — have precious few instruments under the new collective bargaining agreement for adding talent, let alone young, inexpensive, cost-controlled talent. The draft affords that opportunity, whether by making your own selections or by using a cache of available selections to pluck a young asset like Thomas Robinson, whom the Blazers just snagged from the Rockets for a pair of second-rounders and European prospects.

Having draft picks gives you options; not having them eliminates options. The Knicks, now, have very few options at inexpensively improving their existing core in the years ahead or developing foundational talent to have on-board beyond the 2014-15 season, when just about everybody comes off New York's books and a grand reset seems likely, and in the three years afterward, too. They have traded away said options in the hope that a high-priced player with a recognizable name who'd become persona non grata in his previous stop will be able to turn his declining fortunes around under the bright lights of Madison Square Garden.

Knicks fans have heard this tune before. It's got a bad beat, and you can't dance to it. But that doesn't mean James Dolan and company plan to stop playing that same old song over and over and over again.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
nixluva
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7/1/2013  5:38 PM
Man please! Anyone can bash Bargs based on the last 2 years, but at least we know why he was playing poorly. There's a great chance that we can get him back to his best BB and even better if we can get him to buy into the winning attitude we have here. The Raps stunk and who knows how that effected him. I'm sure the losing doesn't exactly inspire a player. He'll be coming here with a fresh start and a positive attitude. I think that's gonna make a huge difference.
misterearl
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7/1/2013  5:44 PM
Plagiarizing Rasheed's "Ball Don't Lie" is an act of treason.

The article is pessimistically bogus and talks nothing about chemistry between co-stars.

We have a star who desperately needed a scoring sidekick in the frontcourt. Fuggedabout replaying hackneyed trade/ salary cap/ statistical mumbo jumbo. The game is basketball and it is a team sport played by people who need to relate as a cohesive whole.

All that matters is that Bargnani can find a happy place in The Garden that he did not in Toronto. It would seem his drop dead gorgeous Columbian friend and model, Nawal Ayoub Valderrama, just might look forward to sitting in celebrity row on Broadway.

Nothing else matters.

once a knick always a knick
newyorknewyork
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7/1/2013  6:36 PM
Well, hopefully he comes in and builds up some decent value so that when he is a free agent we can work out a sign and trade with a team looking for a stretch 4 and get back a decent trade exemption for the 15/16 summer. If he can be a 15pt scorer as a stretch 4 we could get 6-7mil trade exemption from a team for that.
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newyorknewyork
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7/1/2013  6:40 PM
The Felton/Chandler pnr should be deadly with Bargs, Melo, Shumpert on the perimeter as well.
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GustavBahler
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7/1/2013  6:43 PM
The fact that Bargs has only played for one team I would count as a bonus. Maybe playing on a much bigger stage will fire him up.
nixluva
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7/1/2013  6:52 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:The Felton/Chandler pnr should be deadly with Bargs, Melo, Shumpert on the perimeter as well.

I think that's one of the things that many are not paying attention to. This is a player who will mesh well with just about everyone on this team. His talents are just the sort of skills we need. Bargs will be a very good pick n pop man too. Also Bargs has a very high BB IQ, which is sorely needed on this team.

Bonn1997
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7/1/2013  7:10 PM
nixluva wrote:Man please! Anyone can bash Bargs based on the last 2 years, but at least we know why he was playing poorly. There's a great chance that we can get him back to his best BB and even better if we can get him to buy into the winning attitude we have here. The Raps stunk and who knows how that effected him. I'm sure the losing doesn't exactly inspire a player. He'll be coming here with a fresh start and a positive attitude. I think that's gonna make a huge difference.

So we got another veteran with the goal of changing him into something he's never been? Didn't we learn from the past ten years?
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7/1/2013  7:16 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/1/2013  7:27 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:Man please! Anyone can bash Bargs based on the last 2 years, but at least we know why he was playing poorly. There's a great chance that we can get him back to his best BB and even better if we can get him to buy into the winning attitude we have here. The Raps stunk and who knows how that effected him. I'm sure the losing doesn't exactly inspire a player. He'll be coming here with a fresh start and a positive attitude. I think that's gonna make a huge difference.

So we got another veteran with the goal of changing him into something he's never been? Didn't we learn from the past ten years?

I am no fan of Bargs but he is better than Novak and Camby. I don't see how anyone can say otherwise. Also, the 2nd rounders and late first rounder can easily be purchased. I am indifferent about this trade. It is not great. It is not bad. It is so so.

nixluva
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7/1/2013  7:21 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:Man please! Anyone can bash Bargs based on the last 2 years, but at least we know why he was playing poorly. There's a great chance that we can get him back to his best BB and even better if we can get him to buy into the winning attitude we have here. The Raps stunk and who knows how that effected him. I'm sure the losing doesn't exactly inspire a player. He'll be coming here with a fresh start and a positive attitude. I think that's gonna make a huge difference.

So we got another veteran with the goal of changing him into something he's never been? Didn't we learn from the past ten years?

Do you have another solution short of blowing the team up, which they're not gonna do this year? See it's easy to just sit back and take pot shots, but to put yourself in the thinking process of the Knicks, they have to try and get a guy at his low value point and try to build him up. The work they did on JR was mostly successful. The work they did on Amar'e was also successful from the standpoint of his post game being improved. So the premise of taking players and helping them add to their game has actually been working. All we're asking Bargs to do is learn how to defend and give more effort, things which aren't impossible to do.

Andrea "Il Mago" (The Magician) Bargnani Appreciation

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