knicks1248 wrote:Listen, KIDD told melo from the gate early in the season, move the ball and it will find you, and thats what he did and jump out to a 18-5 record.

Melo needs to approacch the game different. Even when Amare was healthy he gets no touches despite being the most efficient scorer on the floor because melo dominates the ball, he brings the ball up court, if that doesn't happen, the ISO is called out, and felton/kidd/prigs/jr/shump all look for melo and clrear out.

Lets face the facts here, SCORERS DON'T WIN RINGS, THEY WIN SCORING TITLES, when they become role players, thats when they take a back seat.

This little remark he made about needing help is the same thing he did in DENVER, claiming they weren't making enough moves to give him help..

CrushAlot wrote:

Clean wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:The argument that Melo should have waited to sign to become a free agent is getting very irritating. Have any of you taken the time to research the details? Have any of you taken the time out to put yourself in that position? Stop just throwing out arguments that are not based off facts, but what you've heard on a message board. This notion that he could have signed as a free agent with a lock out pending is shot down again and again by current and ex players, business and sports experts for the 1000th time. Some of you are looking less and less credible.

New york had 2 decisions, don't sign him or trade for him. That's it. What's so hard to comprehend? There wasn't a free agency option at the time. That was not an option. So instead of placing blame on Melo, it's management that made the decision.

huh? I am pretty sure there was a free agency for that offseason. So, I am not sure where you are going with this post.

Yeah there was free agency after that offseason. However, the owners locked the players out to reign in free agency first. You also are forgetting that in addition to the owners threats of a lockout and new labor agreement, the raps and cavs had just lost their franchise players for nothing. Denver was moving Melo before the deadline. If you have an issue with how the deal was negotiated that lies with the gm and possibly the owner if the inclusion of Moz has kept you up at night the past few years.
With some of the logic being used in this thread guys should be trashing Amare for forcing the Knicks to sign him to a five year deal when the docs were saying one or two more years left for his knees.

The lockout has no bearing on if we were able to sign melo or not. We would have still been able to sign him after the lockout with the current CBA. The only thing the lockout changed for our situation at the time was the amount we could pay him with a max contract.

No team would trade anything of substance for melo if he said he was only signing with us. The fact that he wanted to get as much money as possible is what gave the other teams the leverage. Even if he was traded to another team before the deadline he could have still signed with us in the offseason. Being traded does not extend your contract unless you sign a contract extension.

I am also not sure why brought up Amare. Amare never forced us to sign him to a 5 year. That is the offer our front office gave him get him to sign so we can tell lebron that Amare would be his sidekick. The difference between Amares situation and Melo's situation is about as clear as can be.

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Vmart wrote:Forget the sources, everyone knows that the Knicks need to get better. They need help scoring all their bigs were a big let down this year. Relying on JR Smith to be a scoring option isn't what you call a smart decision. Ray Felton coming up small in elimination game speaks volumes about his game. Shumpert is still feeling his way through the injury. So if you really look at the Knicks roster they need help a lot of it because most of the vets they relied on for the fast start are done.

All the vets are broken down players. Amare can't really rely on him to be healthy, same with Camby, Kidd is finished, Wallace retired, and Kenyon is a one way player at this stage in his career. There is very little to work with for the Knicks. I can't see the Knicks having a year like they did this year. The Knicks window was this year only unlike Boston had with their vets KG, Peirce and Allen.

Knicks at are a stage where they have to create a new window of opportunity. The window for this current team is closed.

I agree with you but I think we have a core u settling issue that unless addressed will mean we won't be able to win a chip with Melo. It's the combination of a "Star" player who is a one dimensional ball hog and a coach unable to design and run an offense.

If we can get a coach who can force Melo to play in an offensive system and not have him pout about the ridiculous number of shots he is jacking up or if we can get another star player who becomes the primary option with Melo playing the secondary option then our window will re-open.

What we will do instead is repeat this insanity where we spend the entire season without an offensive plan and without involving any of the supporting cast in the offense and then when Melo fails to score 60 points during the playoffs we will pint fingers at everyone but him.

What no one explains is how the supporting players are suddenly expected to start making shots after being completely ignored and forgotten on offense throughout the entire season. That applies to just about everyone except JR and he had a meltdown.

Our problems are simple:

A. Melo can't play with others who need to score the ball - unless he had a guy like Coach K to check his ego
B. Melo then has issues with not having others that can score the ball
C. Woody doesn't know how to coach an offense

If we can solve one of those we might get closer.

We need a scorer bad, one who can shoot and play off of Melo. If its a guard they must be a 3-pt shooter, if its a bigman they must be a solid midrange shooter and post scorer in the David West mold. But we need a guy. I would like to see Shumpert become the 3rd option and JR Smith as the 4th option and 6th man of course. Shumpert does have star potential and can increase his role each year, but we need that 2nd guy now and can't rely on him to be that until year 4 or 5.

we need a star player Melo can play off. Not a scorer to play off Melo. Scorers dont play off Melo because he doesnt pass the ball.

Thought after 10 years in the NBA folks would realize what he is and stop trying to make him into something else.

He needs a player similar to Billups. I never considered Billups a true star (close to it), but the perfect 2nd option to Melo. Only problem was Billups was towards the end of his prime. We need that type of player. Durant has Westbrook in that role. Sort of a 1B guy. Nothing wrong with that, most guys need that to compete for a title.

No one blows up a team that's a lock to reach the finals and compete for a chip right now - yes Durant has help AND far more importantly he appreciates what he has. He doesn't need to take all the shots and play for the scoring title. Does anyone label Durant as selfish or one dimensional? Are you really comparing our dear black hole with Kevin Durant????

Melo's problem is his selfishness and no amount of help can cure him of that. And unless he himself is able to get past it all he will ever be is world's most talented one dimensional ball hog and mental midget.

This issue in combination with Woody's complete inability to coach an offense will mean the exact sane results next year and beyond. There isn't one player in the league outside of CP3 tgat both Melo and Woody will allow to dictate terms. And we can't get him no matter what goes down.

Again we need one of two things to happen:

Coaching change -where we get a guy like Coach K, PJAX or Sloan
Primary star player - for some combination of Tyson/Shumpert/STAT/Melo

I don't care which -but the team as it stands now will be third or fourthin the East behind Heat, Pacers, Bulls and Celts - IIWII

Clean wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Clean wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:The argument that Melo should have waited to sign to become a free agent is getting very irritating. Have any of you taken the time to research the details? Have any of you taken the time out to put yourself in that position? Stop just throwing out arguments that are not based off facts, but what you've heard on a message board. This notion that he could have signed as a free agent with a lock out pending is shot down again and again by current and ex players, business and sports experts for the 1000th time. Some of you are looking less and less credible.

New york had 2 decisions, don't sign him or trade for him. That's it. What's so hard to comprehend? There wasn't a free agency option at the time. That was not an option. So instead of placing blame on Melo, it's management that made the decision.

huh? I am pretty sure there was a free agency for that offseason. So, I am not sure where you are going with this post.

Yeah there was free agency after that offseason. However, the owners locked the players out to reign in free agency first. You also are forgetting that in addition to the owners threats of a lockout and new labor agreement, the raps and cavs had just lost their franchise players for nothing. Denver was moving Melo before the deadline. If you have an issue with how the deal was negotiated that lies with the gm and possibly the owner if the inclusion of Moz has kept you up at night the past few years.
With some of the logic being used in this thread guys should be trashing Amare for forcing the Knicks to sign him to a five year deal when the docs were saying one or two more years left for his knees.

The lockout has no bearing on if we were able to sign melo or not. We would have still been able to sign him after the lockout with the current CBA. The only thing the lockout changed for our situation at the time was the amount we could pay him with a max contract.

No team would trade anything of substance for melo if he said he was only signing with us. The fact that he wanted to get as much money as possible is what gave the other teams the leverage. Even if he was traded to another team before the deadline he could have still signed with us in the offseason. Being traded does not extend your contract unless you sign a contract extension.

I am also not sure why brought up Amare. Amare never forced us to sign him to a 5 year. That is the offer our front office gave him get him to sign so we can tell lebron that Amare would be his sidekick. The difference between Amares situation and Melo's situation is about as clear as can be.

knicks1248 wrote:Listen, KIDD told melo from the gate early in the season, move the ball and it will find you, and thats what he did and jump out to a 18-5 record.

Melo needs to approacch the game different. Even when Amare was healthy he gets no touches despite being the most efficient scorer on the floor because melo dominates the ball, he brings the ball up court, if that doesn't happen, the ISO is called out, and felton/kidd/prigs/jr/shump all look for melo and clrear out.

Lets face the facts here, SCORERS DON'T WIN RINGS, THEY WIN SCORING TITLES, when they become role players, thats when they take a back seat.

This little remark he made about needing help is the same thing he did in DENVER, claiming they weren't making enough moves to give him help..

SEND CLOSK FOR SURE

CrushAlot wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The lockout had everything to do with the Melo deal. He wanted a deal under the old cba the selfish sob. The owners told the players they were reigning in free agency and taking back more bri. It was the economic climate. And yes other teams would have traded for Melo. There is no way the Nuggets were not going to move Melo at the deadline and teams would have taken the chance. The guy was 26 and a superstar. You also can't ignore the impact the big three signing in Miami had on other franchises risking the chance of losing their franchise player for nothing and the fact that the owners were locking out the players at the end of the season.

No team would trade anything of substance for melo if he said he was only signing with us. The fact that he wanted to get as much money as possible is what gave the other teams the leverage.

^Cleans right about this one Crush. If Melo had maintained that we were the only team he'd sign an extension with then things could have gone down differently. Him keeping the Nets in it was a questionable move.

We were not gonna sign him as a free agent though. I dont know why people keep saying that.

I disagree. Billy King makes that trade 8 days a week and when Melo has to choose between 25 mil, Brooklyn and Bropez or busted Amare I think he takes the 25 mil and runs with the Nets just like DWil did.

CrushAlot wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The lockout had everything to do with the Melo deal. He wanted a deal under the old cba the selfish sob. The owners told the players they were reigning in free agency and taking back more bri. It was the economic climate. And yes other teams would have traded for Melo. There is no way the Nuggets were not going to move Melo at the deadline and teams would have taken the chance. The guy was 26 and a superstar. You also can't ignore the impact the big three signing in Miami had on other franchises risking the chance of losing their franchise player for nothing and the fact that the owners were locking out the players at the end of the season.

No team would trade anything of substance for melo if he said he was only signing with us. The fact that he wanted to get as much money as possible is what gave the other teams the leverage.

^Cleans right about this one Crush. If Melo had maintained that we were the only team he'd sign an extension with then things could have gone down differently. Him keeping the Nets in it was a questionable move.

We were not gonna sign him as a free agent though. I dont know why people keep saying that.

I disagree. Billy King makes that trade 8 days a week and when Melo has to choose between 25 mil, Brooklyn and Bropez or busted Amare I think he takes the 25 mil and runs with the Nets just like DWil did.

Even if Melo says hes not signing an extension with them and only with the Knicks?

I think so. I also think if Melo might have bended in if the Knicks were not going to do the trade. The owners were very clear on their intent for the lockout and next cba and Melo wanted no part of it at the time. Also, King has proven to be pretty reckless/fearless in his pursuit of talent. It seemed DWil was leaving all along but the money was too much for him to go.

knicks1248 wrote:I think people get it twisted, Melo is 100% not a selfish player and I'm one of his biggest critics

He has a scoring mentality, even with a bunch of veterans (sheed, billups, kidd, tyson) with rings around him telling him how to play, he can't change for any more then a few weeks..

What I hate the most about melo is all the sht he talks about in training camp, oooh It's not about scoring, everybody knows I can score, or I have very good players around me..

It's like a criminal who's been locked up and in and out of jail for most of his life, and every time he's release he preaches all this "I'm going to fly straight, I'm sick of this jail sht", and six months later he's doing the same thing that lands him in prison cause he knows no other way.