3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:DK...If Walsh sat on his hands and did nothing..Those contracts that Walsh was supposedly burdened with came off the books the year after LeBron..Your necessary evil theory is garbage...

he wasn't given a mandate to sit on his hands. when the commissioner of the league asserts that the kicks are not a model of intelligent management then a gm who comes in has a mandate to use his intelligence to right the ship. it was basically about dolan not interfering because every time he does he does harm. layden could only do harm with what his boss demanded of him. thomas the same thing. the latter also had the added wrinkle of blind conceit-- he actually believed in the mandate his boss gave him!

lastly, because walsh was not handcuffed by dolan, it meant that walsh could actually formulate a plan of action.

at the end of the day the team we had going in to the 2010-2011 season was year 1 of the walsh era-- ruined almost immediately by dolan not allowing a competent adult to do his job.

Walsh still made serious blunders devoid of Dolan mettling

he turned the team around and had them heading for the playoffs in two years. they were 28-26 and trending to the 7th or 8th seed, with youth and money. few gm's would be able to do better in two years. his tenure was not mistake-free.

Yes at the same time he had a platform to get there without many roadblocks besides the owner. If he does nothing as mentioned in previous posts those things naturally take place.

We had our 2008 and 2009 pick and 2011 pick and 2012 pick and 2010 cap space and potentially 2011 cap space....

If Walsh simply does nothing but let..."Tomorrow Come" those things you mentioned would naturally exist.

It's like trying to give credit to a golf caddy for handing the experienced golfer the club of choice....

I don't judge him by where we were headed which was good but still an unknown...I judge him by so much more he could have done and what he did do. I mean isn't this the argument Melo lovers use against the naysayers? Where Melo has taken us and left us in a better position than the past? Sorry that's not good enough for me because my standards are always at APEX and never in comparison to the Valley

What kills me is that the 2008-2009 roster actually started out pretty well. We had no way of predicting whether the trend would've continued over 82 games but it seemed like those guys were well on their way to jacking up their trade values. As opposed to letting things play out, Walsh took the very first deal he was offered on guys that would turn out to be pretty good ball players. The interesting thing about the situation was that he decided to keep the one guy who was the poorest fit for D'Antoni's system (Eddy Curry) from the get-go. Why not trade the guy that could never be showcased is beyond me but it turned out to be the deathblow to Walsh's 2010 plans.

NardDogNation wrote:

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:DK...If Walsh sat on his hands and did nothing..Those contracts that Walsh was supposedly burdened with came off the books the year after LeBron..Your necessary evil theory is garbage...

he wasn't given a mandate to sit on his hands. when the commissioner of the league asserts that the kicks are not a model of intelligent management then a gm who comes in has a mandate to use his intelligence to right the ship. it was basically about dolan not interfering because every time he does he does harm. layden could only do harm with what his boss demanded of him. thomas the same thing. the latter also had the added wrinkle of blind conceit-- he actually believed in the mandate his boss gave him!

lastly, because walsh was not handcuffed by dolan, it meant that walsh could actually formulate a plan of action.

at the end of the day the team we had going in to the 2010-2011 season was year 1 of the walsh era-- ruined almost immediately by dolan not allowing a competent adult to do his job.

Walsh still made serious blunders devoid of Dolan mettling

he turned the team around and had them heading for the playoffs in two years. they were 28-26 and trending to the 7th or 8th seed, with youth and money. few gm's would be able to do better in two years. his tenure was not mistake-free.

Yes at the same time he had a platform to get there without many roadblocks besides the owner. If he does nothing as mentioned in previous posts those things naturally take place.

We had our 2008 and 2009 pick and 2011 pick and 2012 pick and 2010 cap space and potentially 2011 cap space....

If Walsh simply does nothing but let..."Tomorrow Come" those things you mentioned would naturally exist.

It's like trying to give credit to a golf caddy for handing the experienced golfer the club of choice....

I don't judge him by where we were headed which was good but still an unknown...I judge him by so much more he could have done and what he did do. I mean isn't this the argument Melo lovers use against the naysayers? Where Melo has taken us and left us in a better position than the past? Sorry that's not good enough for me because my standards are always at APEX and never in comparison to the Valley

What kills me is that the 2008-2009 roster actually started out pretty well. We had no way of predicting whether the trend would've continued over 82 games but it seemed like those guys were well on their way to jacking up their trade values. As opposed to letting things play out, Walsh took the very first deal he was offered on guys that would turn out to be pretty good ball players. The interesting thing about the situation was that he decided to keep the one guy who was the poorest fit for D'Antoni's system (Eddy Curry) from the get-go. Why not trade the guy that could never be showcased is beyond me but it turned out to be the deathblow to Walsh's 2010 plans.

Actually Walsh didn't take the very first deal he was offered as he could have traded Zach to the Clippers for a 2nd rounder + a $14.6mil TPE but instead the Clippers made the same deal with Denver for Camby....

Then when he saw he gaffed on that trade as supposedly the reason he didn't do it because the Clippers were asking for a 1st rounder(per Wojo) as were the Grizzlies in Wallace(which I never bought from Walsh). I think he was making excuses as to why he wasn't savvy enough to get smart deals done. He then went back to the Clippers and traded Zach for Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley(who had a pre-existing heart condition) yet fans were slobbering over Cat at the time.

Speaking of that trade how is it...... a 34yr old Camby was traded for a 2nd round pick yet GRUNNY traded for a 39yr old Camby...gave him a 3yr contract and gave up multiple assets....including 2 2nd rounders

GOOD GOOGALEE MOOGLEE!!!!!

3G4G wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:DK...If Walsh sat on his hands and did nothing..Those contracts that Walsh was supposedly burdened with came off the books the year after LeBron..Your necessary evil theory is garbage...

he wasn't given a mandate to sit on his hands. when the commissioner of the league asserts that the kicks are not a model of intelligent management then a gm who comes in has a mandate to use his intelligence to right the ship. it was basically about dolan not interfering because every time he does he does harm. layden could only do harm with what his boss demanded of him. thomas the same thing. the latter also had the added wrinkle of blind conceit-- he actually believed in the mandate his boss gave him!

lastly, because walsh was not handcuffed by dolan, it meant that walsh could actually formulate a plan of action.

at the end of the day the team we had going in to the 2010-2011 season was year 1 of the walsh era-- ruined almost immediately by dolan not allowing a competent adult to do his job.

Walsh still made serious blunders devoid of Dolan mettling

he turned the team around and had them heading for the playoffs in two years. they were 28-26 and trending to the 7th or 8th seed, with youth and money. few gm's would be able to do better in two years. his tenure was not mistake-free.

Yes at the same time he had a platform to get there without many roadblocks besides the owner. If he does nothing as mentioned in previous posts those things naturally take place.

We had our 2008 and 2009 pick and 2011 pick and 2012 pick and 2010 cap space and potentially 2011 cap space....

If Walsh simply does nothing but let..."Tomorrow Come" those things you mentioned would naturally exist.

It's like trying to give credit to a golf caddy for handing the experienced golfer the club of choice....

I don't judge him by where we were headed which was good but still an unknown...I judge him by so much more he could have done and what he did do. I mean isn't this the argument Melo lovers use against the naysayers? Where Melo has taken us and left us in a better position than the past? Sorry that's not good enough for me because my standards are always at APEX and never in comparison to the Valley

What kills me is that the 2008-2009 roster actually started out pretty well. We had no way of predicting whether the trend would've continued over 82 games but it seemed like those guys were well on their way to jacking up their trade values. As opposed to letting things play out, Walsh took the very first deal he was offered on guys that would turn out to be pretty good ball players. The interesting thing about the situation was that he decided to keep the one guy who was the poorest fit for D'Antoni's system (Eddy Curry) from the get-go. Why not trade the guy that could never be showcased is beyond me but it turned out to be the deathblow to Walsh's 2010 plans.

Actually Walsh didn't take the very first deal he was offered as he could have traded Zach to the Clippers for a 2nd rounder + a $14.6mil TPE but instead the Clippers made the same deal with Denver for Camby....

Then when he saw he gaffed on that trade as supposedly the reason he didn't do it because the Clippers were asking for a 1st rounder(per Wojo) as were the Grizzlies in Wallace(which I never bought from Walsh). I think he was making excuses as to why he wasn't savvy enough to get smart deals done. He then went back to the Clippers and traded Zach for Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley(who had a pre-existing heart condition) yet fans were slobbering over Cat at the time.

Speaking of that trade how is it...... a 34yr old Camby was traded for a 2nd round pick yet GRUNNY traded for a 39yr old Camby...gave him a 3yr contract and gave up multiple assets....including 2 2nd rounders

GOOD GOOGALEE MOOGLEE!!!!!

The point is that he traded Randolph without allowing his market value to mature. To Walsh's credit, Randolph was only traded to us for Steve Francis and Channing Frye (aka cap space) but the Blazers also dealt him at a point of weakness.

As for the 2nd rounder, I'm pretty sure that he Denver never got it for Camby, lol. To Grunwald's credit though, Camby was traded to Portland from LAC for players that were considered assets at the time (Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw). I still hate how much we gave up for a virtual no-show this season though.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:DK...If Walsh sat on his hands and did nothing..Those contracts that Walsh was supposedly burdened with came off the books the year after LeBron..Your necessary evil theory is garbage...

he wasn't given a mandate to sit on his hands. when the commissioner of the league asserts that the kicks are not a model of intelligent management then a gm who comes in has a mandate to use his intelligence to right the ship. it was basically about dolan not interfering because every time he does he does harm. layden could only do harm with what his boss demanded of him. thomas the same thing. the latter also had the added wrinkle of blind conceit-- he actually believed in the mandate his boss gave him!

lastly, because walsh was not handcuffed by dolan, it meant that walsh could actually formulate a plan of action.

at the end of the day the team we had going in to the 2010-2011 season was year 1 of the walsh era-- ruined almost immediately by dolan not allowing a competent adult to do his job.

Also, whats funny is that we have done this exercise of what you term "low character" and "high character individuals" already...U wouldn't know it if a low character or high character individual bit u on the bottom...

3G4G wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:DK...If Walsh sat on his hands and did nothing..Those contracts that Walsh was supposedly burdened with came off the books the year after LeBron..Your necessary evil theory is garbage...

he wasn't given a mandate to sit on his hands. when the commissioner of the league asserts that the kicks are not a model of intelligent management then a gm who comes in has a mandate to use his intelligence to right the ship. it was basically about dolan not interfering because every time he does he does harm. layden could only do harm with what his boss demanded of him. thomas the same thing. the latter also had the added wrinkle of blind conceit-- he actually believed in the mandate his boss gave him!

lastly, because walsh was not handcuffed by dolan, it meant that walsh could actually formulate a plan of action.

at the end of the day the team we had going in to the 2010-2011 season was year 1 of the walsh era-- ruined almost immediately by dolan not allowing a competent adult to do his job.

Walsh still made serious blunders devoid of Dolan mettling

he turned the team around and had them heading for the playoffs in two years. they were 28-26 and trending to the 7th or 8th seed, with youth and money. few gm's would be able to do better in two years. his tenure was not mistake-free.

Yes at the same time he had a platform to get there without many roadblocks besides the owner. If he does nothing as mentioned in previous posts those things naturally take place.

We had our 2008 and 2009 pick and 2011 pick and 2012 pick and 2010 cap space and potentially 2011 cap space....

If Walsh simply does nothing but let..."Tomorrow Come" those things you mentioned would naturally exist.

It's like trying to give credit to a golf caddy for handing the experienced golfer the club of choice....

I don't judge him by where we were headed which was good but still an unknown...I judge him by so much more he could have done and what he did do. I mean isn't this the argument Melo lovers use against the naysayers? Where Melo has taken us and left us in a better position than the past? Sorry that's not good enough for me because my standards are always at APEX and never in comparison to the Valley

What kills me is that the 2008-2009 roster actually started out pretty well. We had no way of predicting whether the trend would've continued over 82 games but it seemed like those guys were well on their way to jacking up their trade values. As opposed to letting things play out, Walsh took the very first deal he was offered on guys that would turn out to be pretty good ball players. The interesting thing about the situation was that he decided to keep the one guy who was the poorest fit for D'Antoni's system (Eddy Curry) from the get-go. Why not trade the guy that could never be showcased is beyond me but it turned out to be the deathblow to Walsh's 2010 plans.

Actually Walsh didn't take the very first deal he was offered as he could have traded Zach to the Clippers for a 2nd rounder + a $14.6mil TPE but instead the Clippers made the same deal with Denver for Camby....

Then when he saw he gaffed on that trade as supposedly the reason he didn't do it because the Clippers were asking for a 1st rounder(per Wojo) as were the Grizzlies in Wallace(which I never bought from Walsh). I think he was making excuses as to why he wasn't savvy enough to get smart deals done. He then went back to the Clippers and traded Zach for Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley(who had a pre-existing heart condition) yet fans were slobbering over Cat at the time.

Speaking of that trade how is it...... a 34yr old Camby was traded for a 2nd round pick yet GRUNNY traded for a 39yr old Camby...gave him a 3yr contract and gave up multiple assets....including 2 2nd rounders

GOOD GOOGALEE MOOGLEE!!!!!

The multiple assets are out of the league and had to be included to make the salaries work.

So what...the 2 2nd rounders alone trump the 5yrs ago value making the trade idiotic....Can't bash Walsh for what he did that was stupid but protect Grunny for what he did which was doubly stupid.

Camby came in as a 7 and 9 guy. If you can get that for 2 second rounders you do it. In hindsight it was a bad move.

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:DK...If Walsh sat on his hands and did nothing..Those contracts that Walsh was supposedly burdened with came off the books the year after LeBron..Your necessary evil theory is garbage...

he wasn't given a mandate to sit on his hands. when the commissioner of the league asserts that the kicks are not a model of intelligent management then a gm who comes in has a mandate to use his intelligence to right the ship. it was basically about dolan not interfering because every time he does he does harm. layden could only do harm with what his boss demanded of him. thomas the same thing. the latter also had the added wrinkle of blind conceit-- he actually believed in the mandate his boss gave him!

lastly, because walsh was not handcuffed by dolan, it meant that walsh could actually formulate a plan of action.

at the end of the day the team we had going in to the 2010-2011 season was year 1 of the walsh era-- ruined almost immediately by dolan not allowing a competent adult to do his job.

Also, whats funny is that we have done this exercise of what you term "low character" and "high character individuals" already...U wouldn't know it if a low character or high character individual bit u on the bottom...

it doesn't matter, i get the subtext for all the crapping on walsh's head and the personal attacks: it's never melo's fault. meantime the knicks are never reaching the finals with melo as the main guy. heck the conference finals is doubtful with this loser on the team.

will he ever be in elite shape? no
will he ever make others better? no
will he ever be a complete player? no
will he ever be a leader of men? no
will he ever take responsibility for failure? no
will he always have a huge number of fluffers in spite of these deficiencies? yes

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:DK...If Walsh sat on his hands and did nothing..Those contracts that Walsh was supposedly burdened with came off the books the year after LeBron..Your necessary evil theory is garbage...

he wasn't given a mandate to sit on his hands. when the commissioner of the league asserts that the kicks are not a model of intelligent management then a gm who comes in has a mandate to use his intelligence to right the ship. it was basically about dolan not interfering because every time he does he does harm. layden could only do harm with what his boss demanded of him. thomas the same thing. the latter also had the added wrinkle of blind conceit-- he actually believed in the mandate his boss gave him!

lastly, because walsh was not handcuffed by dolan, it meant that walsh could actually formulate a plan of action.

at the end of the day the team we had going in to the 2010-2011 season was year 1 of the walsh era-- ruined almost immediately by dolan not allowing a competent adult to do his job.

Also, whats funny is that we have done this exercise of what you term "low character" and "high character individuals" already...U wouldn't know it if a low character or high character individual bit u on the bottom...

it doesn't matter, i get the subtext for all the crapping on walsh's head and the personal attacks: it's never melo's fault. meantime the knicks are never reaching the finals with melo as the main guy. heck the conference finals is doubtful with this loser on the team.

will he ever be in elite shape? no
will he ever make others better? no
will he ever be a complete player? no
will he ever be a leader of men? no
will he ever take responsibility for failure? no
will he always have a huge number of fluffers in spite of these deficiencies? yes

Well if you want to absolved Walsh of any wrong doing in handing a guy with two bad knees 100 mil then have him play continuous basketball for only half a season in three seasons, what can I say...Then you want to blame the guy who was in contention for league MVP, led the league in scoring, has been the most consistent player for the team the last 2.5 years..Single handedly carried the team into the playoffs two consecutive years with his play in two Aprils..The best player in the league two consecutive Aprils...You want to hang the blame for not getting to the ECF on that guy, again, what can I say...