MaTT4281 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I hope this makes anti-Melo people appreciate him more. He did everything he could and was injured in a way most wouldn't play thru. Huge respect for him with a warrior effort in the playoffs.

The guy has a history of shooting poorly in the playoffs, career 40%..

Great for playing through pain, but now I really question why he avg 1 ast with a bum shoulder ..smh

Exactly. It was obvious he was hurt and playing his heart out. The issue is that he's the only player in the game who would take 25 shots a game with a torn shoulder when he had teammates hitting at a higher percentage than he was. And it's disappointing that he can't have a consistent impact in any non-scoring area of the game.

And which player might that be, hitting a higher percentage ??

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks

Are you suggesting we should have run the offense through Chandler and Martin?

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Melo looked in pain.

The team crumbled last year in the playoffs, literally.

Im sure most of us thought the depth we have would have sustained us. It did not.

Melo was still our best option and as long as he was able, willing and effective we'd go to him.

There was little choices to adjust mid series. Amare was not nearly "back" enough to warrant minutes and touches and JR is not where you want to go unless he is hot.

Melo is a big strong kid who gave it his best under the conditions.

Was it enough? No. Fault? Blame? Lets be fair, as a TEAM were did not match up well with Indy and we were not healthy enough to sustain.

You can be the best option and take closer to 16 shots and get 4 to 5 assists though. He's the best option to create offense - for both himself and others. (Or at least it should have been for both.)

bonn he is not capable of doing either well enough to form a contender around. and he is turning 29 in a few days.

dolan really really blew it

You are worried about Melo's age and u were an advocate of building around Amare???

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I hope this makes anti-Melo people appreciate him more. He did everything he could and was injured in a way most wouldn't play thru. Huge respect for him with a warrior effort in the playoffs.

The guy has a history of shooting poorly in the playoffs, career 40%..

Great for playing through pain, but now I really question why he avg 1 ast with a bum shoulder ..smh

Exactly. It was obvious he was hurt and playing his heart out. The issue is that he's the only player in the game who would take 25 shots a game with a torn shoulder when he had teammates hitting at a higher percentage than he was. And it's disappointing that he can't have a consistent impact in any non-scoring area of the game.

And which player might that be, hitting a higher percentage ??

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks

Whats this???..I have looked up their playoff percentage no starter is hitting a higher percentage...Give me a name..

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I hope this makes anti-Melo people appreciate him more. He did everything he could and was injured in a way most wouldn't play thru. Huge respect for him with a warrior effort in the playoffs.

The guy has a history of shooting poorly in the playoffs, career 40%..

Great for playing through pain, but now I really question why he avg 1 ast with a bum shoulder ..smh

Exactly. It was obvious he was hurt and playing his heart out. The issue is that he's the only player in the game who would take 25 shots a game with a torn shoulder when he had teammates hitting at a higher percentage than he was. And it's disappointing that he can't have a consistent impact in any non-scoring area of the game.

And which player might that be, hitting a higher percentage ??

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks

Whats this???..I have looked up their playoff percentage. no Almost every starter is hitting a higher percentage...

MaTT4281 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I hope this makes anti-Melo people appreciate him more. He did everything he could and was injured in a way most wouldn't play thru. Huge respect for him with a warrior effort in the playoffs.

The guy has a history of shooting poorly in the playoffs, career 40%..

Great for playing through pain, but now I really question why he avg 1 ast with a bum shoulder ..smh

Exactly. It was obvious he was hurt and playing his heart out. The issue is that he's the only player in the game who would take 25 shots a game with a torn shoulder when he had teammates hitting at a higher percentage than he was. And it's disappointing that he can't have a consistent impact in any non-scoring area of the game.

And which player might that be, hitting a higher percentage ??

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks

Are you suggesting we should have run the offense through Chandler and Martin?

No, Melo should have taken closer to 60 shots a game and averaged closer to -0.5 assists per game.

Kudos to Ray for stepping up a handful of games, and I'm thrilled Shump has improved that uncontested 3 pointer, but do you really have the confidence these guys are going to shoulder the offense (no pun intended) for an injured Melo?

Bonn1997 wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I hope this makes anti-Melo people appreciate him more. He did everything he could and was injured in a way most wouldn't play thru. Huge respect for him with a warrior effort in the playoffs.

The guy has a history of shooting poorly in the playoffs, career 40%..

Great for playing through pain, but now I really question why he avg 1 ast with a bum shoulder ..smh

Exactly. It was obvious he was hurt and playing his heart out. The issue is that he's the only player in the game who would take 25 shots a game with a torn shoulder when he had teammates hitting at a higher percentage than he was. And it's disappointing that he can't have a consistent impact in any non-scoring area of the game.

And which player might that be, hitting a higher percentage ??

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks

Are you suggesting we should have run the offense through Chandler and Martin?

No, Melo should have taken closer to 60 shots a game and averaged closer to -0.5 assists per game.

Kudos to Ray for stepping up a handful of games, and I'm thrilled Shump has improved that uncontested 3 pointer, but do you really have the confidence these guys are going to shoulder the offense (no pun intended) for an injured Melo?

No, the offense needed to run through Melo and he needed to distribute the ball better. Did you watch any of the games Durant played in this post-season?

Not many - my free time to watch the games primarily went to our Knicks (and a couple GS). Would have been able to shift gears now, had KD not been eliminated a game earlier than both.

But this is where we're getting into different philosphies - I'm pro Melo, but I accept that ball distribution has not been a big part of his game. We tried that experiment last year with Toney Douglas and Shumpert manning the point. Melo gets a lot of flack for being 1 dimensional, and a lot of that is fair.

That's where our 3 headed PG was supposed to step up. We had Melo obviously as our primary scorer, but also battling down low on the Indy bigs, and led the team in defensive rebounds per game. Even if Melo takes on a different role, I don't see where this offense is going to come from unless guys are hitting their shots (I'm looking at you JR and Kidd).

We failed collectively as a team.

on the off chance Melo wastes his time here - I appreciate you playing with a torn shoulder. Maybe Melo should have shut it down if he was at 85 percent and everyone would love him here

SupremeCommander wrote:this thread sums up why this place has become a waste of time

on the off chance Melo wastes his time here - I appreciate you playing with a torn shoulder. Maybe Melo should have shut it down if he was at 85 percent and everyone would love him here

+1
See you when summer league starts!

knicks1248 wrote:

PresIke wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I hope this makes anti-Melo people appreciate him more. He did everything he could and was injured in a way most wouldn't play thru. Huge respect for him with a warrior effort in the playoffs.

The guy has a history of shooting poorly in the playoffs, career 40%..

Great for playing through pain, but now I really question why he avg 1 ast with a bum shoulder ..smh

sports fans and 'history' always an interesting dichotomy...

so, is it not possible that one can overcome so-called 'history?'

and when one or a team does...what is it that impacts such a change?

can we be wrong in assessing what is behind one's poor play and more readily go to our bread basket of arguments that already support the point we want to believe in?

what gives one the indication that it was 'the playoffs' that caused his ability as a shooter, and overall player to drop as it did?

it was 'the playoffs?'

you sure about that? if so, how do you know?

other than the idea that 'in the playoffs he has shot poorly' argument...based on his performance this year...which was better than years before...it's interesting that the strongest melo critics use his past against him now...

that's fine...but this injury is real...

as for assists...funny because i have read more sophisticated arguments this year about melo vs. assists as a fairly weak argument, because a lot of the knicks game this year has been melo doing well with the pass out of the double team (and point of reference...it is fairly widely accepted he is a good passer of the ball) that has LED to a score. I believe alan hahn has used the term 'hockey assist' more than a few times to reference how melo's good work this season of passing out of double teams has led to open looks that have...surprise...contributed to led the team to lead the league in 3 point shooting.

how to lie with statistics...a great book...and lesson...read it and weep ;)

I'm refering to the playoffs, the time of the season when you opponent is locked in on you, scouts you to death..

During the regular season he was pretty darn good for us, but lets keep it real with the facts, THE PLAYOFFS IS WHERE YOU EARN IT, The money, the fame, the respect, the hardware..I'm not hating on melo, he's just a suspect player. when you start making excuses, and sugar coating his negatives and calling everybody who critics him a hater you start sounding like a fanatic.

all of this is just another excuse.. but tyson chandler doesn't get any excuses... as I said, carmelo has a history of not playing well in the postseason... so why should I think any injury was the cause of this years poor performances.. this is what he does...

SupremeCommander wrote:this thread sums up why this place has become a waste of time

on the off chance Melo wastes his time here - I appreciate you playing with a torn shoulder. Maybe Melo should have shut it down if he was at 85 percent and everyone would love him here

Pretty Much, every single topic has to turn into a Melo debate. That's why I steer clear as much as possible. Same talking points over and over .. same individuals. It's becoming redundant. This guy can't win, when he plays with an injury its a problem, when he doesn't - he's soft.

Then people make assumptions like their doctors or professional athletes when both agree that it's a significant injury to play with and can cause pain every time you shoot the ball.

For what it's worth, I'm surprised he played every game, and where I'm from that deserves respect. Also I hope for a speedy recovery - that's all that really needed to be addressed in this thread. The other non sense could have been put in 1 of the other "same talking points, ignore other facts if it don't agree with yours" thread.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Killa4luv wrote:

dk7th wrote:a small left shoulder tear might refer to the labrum, which is a fibrous sheath-like covering, or it could mean something in the rotator cuff which is a complex set of muscles.

a small tear in either of these tissues in the not shooting arm really will not have a dramatic effect on your shooting motion. painkillers can go a long way to desensitizing the area and of course the compression sleeve that he was covered in only help to keep the area protected. not requiring surgery further lowers the severity people seem to be assuming. grimacing in pain is not an indication of the level of pain a player is in.

lets not lionize this guy. his shoulder is not the issue... his BBIQ, footwork, savvy, conditioning, and heart are.

Cingratulations this idiotic response has earned you a permanent ignore. In my over 10 years on this board I've used it once. Orange Blobman. you now make twice. Ur ****ing moron.

The only problem with ignoring him is he needs to be called out for the junk he posts.

how is his response idiotic..I'll ask again, if my shoulder is a problem, why not pass the ball, im shooting worst then any player in the playoffs taking that amount of shots..

He should be saying, let me try and make my teammates better, get them some easy buckets, these tough shots that im taking are not falling, let tell felton to slash the minute you see the double coming..

The guy is a great scorer, but a foolish player

yeah let's pass the rock to JR or Kidd .... oh wait he did but no assists because those 2 couldn't even score on some open layups

foolish player or foolish fans ? i'm not sure the significance will be in Melo disfavor

Melo and JR's supporting cast shot in the mid 40s for the post-season.

except for Shump and Felton, i'm sorry but i saw no one able to carry part of the scoring load for long stretches or for several games ...

i'm not saying Melo doesn't have to pass but some context would be welcome please ... he had no reliable second scorer in these playoffs because of Stat injuries, JR not able to play like he did to win the 6th man award (for several reasons that i won't discuss here) ... Felton was this guy for the Boston series, but was not the same for several games against the Pacers, Shump provided some for some games, and Copeland a little bit too

that put more pressure on Melo to score ... and shoot more

Except for Shump and Felton? That's already almost 25 shots a game!
Durant didn't have a "reliable 2nd scorer" either. Yet he averaged over six assists a game. As long as you have NBA-level teammates, that's just a BS excuse.

so you say that Felton should have take more shots in game 6 where he was 0-7 or Shump in some other games where he was at low percentages ...

i repeat myself, i think Melo can take less shots, but the Knicks in general under performed against Indy and this blurs the results and statistics

what was the shoot percentage of OKC versus Memphis (other players than Durant), in comparisons to the Knicks versus Pacers (without Melo) ... this is a genuine question, I don't know the answer
does this affect the assists of Durant versus Melo ? I mean it is easier to record assist when your teammates score ...

just wondering