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Grunwald - No Sign and Trades
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Bonn1997
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5/22/2013  11:46 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
callmened wrote:did you hear the man? no sign and trades. LOL. theyre gonna try to improve via draft pick and mini vet (younger) free agents

Music to my ears...There's real value here if they target the right players.

Yes to Beasley too if they can pull off a fair deal to get him.

Yeah buy-low, high-risk players like Beasley is the way to go.


You don't simply want to buy low. You want to buy low and then have the value go up. Beasley hasn't shown any signs the latter will occur. I'm sure there are better options. And you definitely don't want to buy low and then see the value go even lower. According to Dean Oliver's #s, per 100 possessions Beasley gives up 11.5 more points than he scores. That puts him 295th out of the 305 players with at least 50 games played last year. He has a unique combination of bad offense, worse defense, and somehow lasting five years in this league.

I'm with you, but I use him as an example of a player that can be had that still offers some upside. If he isn't that player that is fine, but there are guys out there that are.


I think Copeland is as good a gamble as anyone. He showed a ton of skill. I don't know if he'd keep this up but he averaged 20 points per 36 minutes.

I'd be willing to sign Beasley to the vet min but I definitely don't want to give up assets or use up any of our exceptions to get him.

He's under contract in the 5-6m range over the next couple of seasons.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/phoenix.htm

If we want this kid, we'll have to export around the same amount of salary to PHX to get him....Best option is to sign JR Smith to the early-Bird max (slightly over $5M I believe, right?) and then flip him to PHX for Beasley, possibly with a little cash to sweeten if we recover that benefit by then. Novak, Camby -- they're not gonna want those guys...They'll want Shumpert but I'm not giving that kid up. If we want Beasley, it'll have to be for Smith. Again, if we're allowed to do S&Ts for our own FAs, something I'm confused by in this thread. Can we or can't we???

I would do this trade btw.


Oh. Then I'd like to stay a million miles away from Beasley. I'm not sure about S & Ts.
Do we have to use up our mini mid level exception or whatever it's called if we want to sign Copeland for more than the min?

It just depends on Cope. IF he wants 3 million then yes. if a team offers him over 3 million, a dollar over, the knicks can not match it. However, that doesn't mean he will sign with the other team.


But even if it's not the full mini MLE but it's still over the min (say like 1.5 mil), then I think we have to use up part of the MLE.
AUTOADVERT
yellowboy90
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5/22/2013  11:51 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
callmened wrote:did you hear the man? no sign and trades. LOL. theyre gonna try to improve via draft pick and mini vet (younger) free agents

Music to my ears...There's real value here if they target the right players.

Yes to Beasley too if they can pull off a fair deal to get him.

Yeah buy-low, high-risk players like Beasley is the way to go.


You don't simply want to buy low. You want to buy low and then have the value go up. Beasley hasn't shown any signs the latter will occur. I'm sure there are better options. And you definitely don't want to buy low and then see the value go even lower. According to Dean Oliver's #s, per 100 possessions Beasley gives up 11.5 more points than he scores. That puts him 295th out of the 305 players with at least 50 games played last year. He has a unique combination of bad offense, worse defense, and somehow lasting five years in this league.

I'm with you, but I use him as an example of a player that can be had that still offers some upside. If he isn't that player that is fine, but there are guys out there that are.


I think Copeland is as good a gamble as anyone. He showed a ton of skill. I don't know if he'd keep this up but he averaged 20 points per 36 minutes.

I'd be willing to sign Beasley to the vet min but I definitely don't want to give up assets or use up any of our exceptions to get him.

He's under contract in the 5-6m range over the next couple of seasons.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/phoenix.htm

If we want this kid, we'll have to export around the same amount of salary to PHX to get him....Best option is to sign JR Smith to the early-Bird max (slightly over $5M I believe, right?) and then flip him to PHX for Beasley, possibly with a little cash to sweeten if we recover that benefit by then. Novak, Camby -- they're not gonna want those guys...They'll want Shumpert but I'm not giving that kid up. If we want Beasley, it'll have to be for Smith. Again, if we're allowed to do S&Ts for our own FAs, something I'm confused by in this thread. Can we or can't we???

I would do this trade btw.


Oh. Then I'd like to stay a million miles away from Beasley. I'm not sure about S & Ts.
Do we have to use up our mini mid level exception or whatever it's called if we want to sign Copeland for more than the min?

It just depends on Cope. IF he wants 3 million then yes. if a team offers him over 3 million, a dollar over, the knicks can not match it. However, that doesn't mean he will sign with the other team.


But even if it's not the full mini MLE but it's still over the min (say like 1.5 mil), then I think we have to use up part of the MLE.

yeah I believe you are right.

dk7th
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5/22/2013  11:58 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
callmened wrote:did you hear the man? no sign and trades. LOL. theyre gonna try to improve via draft pick and mini vet (younger) free agents

Music to my ears...There's real value here if they target the right players.

Yes to Beasley too if they can pull off a fair deal to get him.

Yeah buy-low, high-risk players like Beasley is the way to go.


You don't simply want to buy low. You want to buy low and then have the value go up. Beasley hasn't shown any signs the latter will occur. I'm sure there are better options. And you definitely don't want to buy low and then see the value go even lower. According to Dean Oliver's #s, per 100 possessions Beasley gives up 11.5 more points than he scores. That puts him 295th out of the 305 players with at least 50 games played last year. He has a unique combination of bad offense, worse defense, and somehow lasting five years in this league.

I'm with you, but I use him as an example of a player that can be had that still offers some upside. If he isn't that player that is fine, but there are guys out there that are.


I think Copeland is as good a gamble as anyone. He showed a ton of skill. I don't know if he'd keep this up but he averaged 20 points per 36 minutes.

I'd be willing to sign Beasley to the vet min but I definitely don't want to give up assets or use up any of our exceptions to get him.

yeah lets add another high-character, overachiever to the knick roster... YUCK

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Knixkik
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5/22/2013  12:00 PM
I do think copeland can be a very good player. Maybe a big time scorer. Another key to our team improvement.
ChuckBuck
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5/22/2013  12:05 PM
dk7th wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
callmened wrote:did you hear the man? no sign and trades. LOL. theyre gonna try to improve via draft pick and mini vet (younger) free agents

Music to my ears...There's real value here if they target the right players.

Yes to Beasley too if they can pull off a fair deal to get him.

Yeah buy-low, high-risk players like Beasley is the way to go.


You don't simply want to buy low. You want to buy low and then have the value go up. Beasley hasn't shown any signs the latter will occur. I'm sure there are better options. And you definitely don't want to buy low and then see the value go even lower. According to Dean Oliver's #s, per 100 possessions Beasley gives up 11.5 more points than he scores. That puts him 295th out of the 305 players with at least 50 games played last year. He has a unique combination of bad offense, worse defense, and somehow lasting five years in this league.

I'm with you, but I use him as an example of a player that can be had that still offers some upside. If he isn't that player that is fine, but there are guys out there that are.


I think Copeland is as good a gamble as anyone. He showed a ton of skill. I don't know if he'd keep this up but he averaged 20 points per 36 minutes.

I'd be willing to sign Beasley to the vet min but I definitely don't want to give up assets or use up any of our exceptions to get him.

yeah lets add another high-character, overachiever to the knick roster... YUCK

+1, HELL NO to Beasley. We got our hands full already with the Smith babies.

VCoug
Posts: 24935
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Joined: 3/28/2007
Member: #1406

5/22/2013  1:10 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
callmened wrote:did you hear the man? no sign and trades. LOL. theyre gonna try to improve via draft pick and mini vet (younger) free agents

Music to my ears...There's real value here if they target the right players.

Yes to Beasley too if they can pull off a fair deal to get him.

Yeah buy-low, high-risk players like Beasley is the way to go.


You don't simply want to buy low. You want to buy low and then have the value go up. Beasley hasn't shown any signs the latter will occur. I'm sure there are better options. And you definitely don't want to buy low and then see the value go even lower. According to Dean Oliver's #s, per 100 possessions Beasley gives up 11.5 more points than he scores. That puts him 295th out of the 305 players with at least 50 games played last year. He has a unique combination of bad offense, worse defense, and somehow lasting five years in this league.

I'm with you, but I use him as an example of a player that can be had that still offers some upside. If he isn't that player that is fine, but there are guys out there that are.


I think Copeland is as good a gamble as anyone. He showed a ton of skill. I don't know if he'd keep this up but he averaged 20 points per 36 minutes.

I'd be willing to sign Beasley to the vet min but I definitely don't want to give up assets or use up any of our exceptions to get him.

He's under contract in the 5-6m range over the next couple of seasons.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/phoenix.htm

If we want this kid, we'll have to export around the same amount of salary to PHX to get him....Best option is to sign JR Smith to the early-Bird max (slightly over $5M I believe, right?) and then flip him to PHX for Beasley, possibly with a little cash to sweeten if we recover that benefit by then. Novak, Camby -- they're not gonna want those guys...They'll want Shumpert but I'm not giving that kid up. If we want Beasley, it'll have to be for Smith. Again, if we're allowed to do S&Ts for our own FAs, something I'm confused by in this thread. Can we or can't we???

I would do this trade btw.


Oh. Then I'd like to stay a million miles away from Beasley. I'm not sure about S & Ts.
Do we have to use up our mini mid level exception or whatever it's called if we want to sign Copeland for more than the min?

It just depends on Cope. IF he wants 3 million then yes. if a team offers him over 3 million, a dollar over, the knicks can not match it. However, that doesn't mean he will sign with the other team.


But even if it's not the full mini MLE but it's still over the min (say like 1.5 mil), then I think we have to use up part of the MLE.

I believe the most we can offer him without dipping into the MLE is $962K. If he wants more than that up to $3M then we'd have to use the MLE on him.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
VCoug
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5/22/2013  1:19 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:^^^^
See to me I am not sure the CLippers would include Bledsoe with Jordan considering they axed a trade that would have sent them Garnett. So maybe instead of Bledsoe they include the 25th pick which will not help them this year. Jordan and the 25th pick is pretty good for Tyson but I really do not want Jordan because of his FT and it will not get the kNicks an huge upgrade in skills. However, although Tyson maybe more valuable to the CLippers than Jordan. I think Jordan has more value around the league due to his age.

So the plan I had was to Portland because they want a defensive center and are willing to let Hickson walk for nothing. My plan was their 10th pick and Leonard for Jordan plus close to 11 million dollars in a trade exception. I think Jordan is better than any Center in this draft so why take a chance when you have a proven commodity and someone that can step in and play now along side a very good roster. Now if they do not want to trade Leonard with the 10th pick which is understandable they could always settle for a sign and trade for Hickson at around 5-6 million which eats into the exception. I think Hickson would be the perfect Amar'e insurance plan. If that not to the teams taste then ask for a second round pick and keep the huge exception.

SO after all that the Knicks could have

A) Bledsoe, 10th pick, Leonard, and 10 million exception


B) 25th pick, 10th pick, Leonard, and 11 mililion exception


C) 25th, 10th, Hickson, and 5-6 million exception


D) 25th, 10th, 40th pick and 13 million exception.


Each option has its advantages to pick up a couple of pieces instead of a younger Tyson. It creates an opportunity to get two pieces. Throw in the 2.5 and a salary dump of Novak or more likely Camby and you are talking the potential of getting Asik and Ryan Anderson.

All this is a pipe dream and I am not appose to keeping Tyson but trading Tyson does create some possibilities. There was an article the oher day about Paul coming to the Knicks which won't happen unless Cliff Paul turns out to really Carmelo Paul, his fraternal twin but it did show how at 15 million the knicks could make it work. So, instead of Paul why not add two players at 15 million and some change while keeping the 24th pick?

My thinking with the Clippers is all about pleasing Chris Paul, if that means they'd have to trade Bledsoe they won't even think twice.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
tj23
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5/22/2013  2:26 PM
I wonder if its possible JR decided to stay with the condition that his brother was signed also? lol
3G4G
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5/22/2013  5:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/22/2013  5:21 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
3G4G wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:Best part is Knicks can package Novak and Camby and get back a decent player.

Novak and cash for Michael Beasley type deals need to be explored.

Once Isiah is hired as GM again of an NBA team this Crack Pipe Dream just might come true.

Yes we need your boy Terrence Williams aka Mr Gunplay. Dude pulled a gun on the mother of his child a few days ago. Lmao.

Yet you lusted for a guy who actually took someone's life in an auto accident being irresponsible. He ran through a stop sign.


And you're comparing baby momma drama to that? I doubt T-Will even had a gun this sounds like some made up story by an ex who's bitter.

Grunwald - No Sign and Trades

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