ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Wow, just read a page of posts where NardDogNation is schooling posters. Walsh definitely hurt the Knicks. That Amare contract is going to kill the next 2 years.

Really think Walsh was the driver to bring in Amare? You really think this is a signiture Walsh move? With everything you know about Dolan, the starphuch manifest, and impatience that this is the kind of contract he would build his legacy on to return to new york and bring a championship?

Everyone entitled to his opinion.

Yes. He(Walsh) even stated as so, back in 2010 that he was going to sign 1 maybe 2 free agents with the cap space HE freed up for the Knicks the last few years. He said Lebron was one Plan A, then he said he Plan B etc.

Plan A) Lebron B)Wade C)Bosh or Boozer D)Nowitzki E)Kobe F)Joe Johnson etc....Z)Amare Stoudemire

All his contingency plans fell through the sewer as everyone shafted the Knicks...Walsh signed STAT in desperation to save face.

"save face" to whom? know-nothing fans who needed to have their patience rewarded? a meddlesome know-nothing owner who destroys his toys?

it was neither a desperation move or a move to save face. he had no other choice given the pressure of ownership and the fanbase.

imagine the reaction if he did nothing.

it was a move of necessity even if the motivation for that move was in the form of the ignorant masses.

5 years, $100 million to micro-fracture in both knees, bad eyed Amare with no insurance, needed a good faith meeting with D'Antoni to patch up feud...

Sounds pretty desperate to me!

tell me what walsh "should have" done instead please.

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Wow, just read a page of posts where NardDogNation is schooling posters. Walsh definitely hurt the Knicks. That Amare contract is going to kill the next 2 years.

Really think Walsh was the driver to bring in Amare? You really think this is a signiture Walsh move? With everything you know about Dolan, the starphuch manifest, and impatience that this is the kind of contract he would build his legacy on to return to new york and bring a championship?

Everyone entitled to his opinion.

Yes. He(Walsh) even stated as so, back in 2010 that he was going to sign 1 maybe 2 free agents with the cap space HE freed up for the Knicks the last few years. He said Lebron was one Plan A, then he said he Plan B etc.

Plan A) Lebron B)Wade C)Bosh or Boozer D)Nowitzki E)Kobe F)Joe Johnson etc....Z)Amare Stoudemire

All his contingency plans fell through the sewer as everyone shafted the Knicks...Walsh signed STAT in desperation to save face.

"save face" to whom? know-nothing fans who needed to have their patience rewarded? a meddlesome know-nothing owner who destroys his toys?

it was neither a desperation move or a move to save face. he had no other choice given the pressure of ownership and the fanbase.

imagine the reaction if he did nothing.

it was a move of necessity even if the motivation for that move was in the form of the ignorant masses.

5 years, $100 million to micro-fracture in both knees, bad eyed Amare with no insurance, needed a good faith meeting with D'Antoni to patch up feud...

Sounds pretty desperate to me!

tell me what walsh "should have" done instead please.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Wow, just read a page of posts where NardDogNation is schooling posters. Walsh definitely hurt the Knicks. That Amare contract is going to kill the next 2 years.

Really think Walsh was the driver to bring in Amare? You really think this is a signiture Walsh move? With everything you know about Dolan, the starphuch manifest, and impatience that this is the kind of contract he would build his legacy on to return to new york and bring a championship?

Everyone entitled to his opinion.

Yes. He(Walsh) even stated as so, back in 2010 that he was going to sign 1 maybe 2 free agents with the cap space HE freed up for the Knicks the last few years. He said Lebron was one Plan A, then he said he Plan B etc.

Plan A) Lebron B)Wade C)Bosh or Boozer D)Nowitzki E)Kobe F)Joe Johnson etc....Z)Amare Stoudemire

All his contingency plans fell through the sewer as everyone shafted the Knicks...Walsh signed STAT in desperation to save face.

"save face" to whom? know-nothing fans who needed to have their patience rewarded? a meddlesome know-nothing owner who destroys his toys?

it was neither a desperation move or a move to save face. he had no other choice given the pressure of ownership and the fanbase.

imagine the reaction if he did nothing.

it was a move of necessity even if the motivation for that move was in the form of the ignorant masses.

5 years, $100 million to micro-fracture in both knees, bad eyed Amare with no insurance, needed a good faith meeting with D'Antoni to patch up feud...

Sounds pretty desperate to me!

tell me what walsh "should have" done instead please.

He should have signed MJax to coach. He should have drafted for need when he took gallo. There was a ton of talent in that draft and to take a forward when you already had Wilson and Lee made little sense. If Jax was in place my guess is he drafts Bropez in the gallo draft and a point in the Hill draft. If that happens I don't see the desperation to create space for two stars. He would have a good young core in place and cap space for one star.

BINGO! Jax or Thibadeau instead of a system coach in D'antoni for starters...

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Wow, just read a page of posts where NardDogNation is schooling posters. Walsh definitely hurt the Knicks. That Amare contract is going to kill the next 2 years.

Really think Walsh was the driver to bring in Amare? You really think this is a signiture Walsh move? With everything you know about Dolan, the starphuch manifest, and impatience that this is the kind of contract he would build his legacy on to return to new york and bring a championship?

Everyone entitled to his opinion.

Yes. He(Walsh) even stated as so, back in 2010 that he was going to sign 1 maybe 2 free agents with the cap space HE freed up for the Knicks the last few years. He said Lebron was one Plan A, then he said he Plan B etc.

Plan A) Lebron B)Wade C)Bosh or Boozer D)Nowitzki E)Kobe F)Joe Johnson etc....Z)Amare Stoudemire

All his contingency plans fell through the sewer as everyone shafted the Knicks...Walsh signed STAT in desperation to save face.

"save face" to whom? know-nothing fans who needed to have their patience rewarded? a meddlesome know-nothing owner who destroys his toys?

it was neither a desperation move or a move to save face. he had no other choice given the pressure of ownership and the fanbase.

imagine the reaction if he did nothing.

it was a move of necessity even if the motivation for that move was in the form of the ignorant masses.

5 years, $100 million to micro-fracture in both knees, bad eyed Amare with no insurance, needed a good faith meeting with D'Antoni to patch up feud...

Sounds pretty desperate to me!

tell me what walsh "should have" done instead please.

DK Im curious as to what you would have done. No malice intended - im honestly curious. You've said you can be a GM for some front offices in the league so how would you have handled striking out on all those free agents in 2010 and having to please your Owner and all these NY fans?

if i am walsh i don't bring in d'antoni unless i have a strong point guard with orchestrating skills. otherwise i do not hire d'antoni.

without hesitation i hire mark jackson-- if you are a gm you pay close attention to retired nba players who are doing color commentary-- especially point guards and listen carefully to their insights on the game.

from there i begin working on a plan to draft young talent while listening carefully to what my coach is looking for. any bloated contracts attached to players with a losing attitude or who has character issues or who have fool's gold games that never yield results in the playoffs i try to ship off.

marbury is gone, harrington gone, and crawford gone as soon as possible. i think long and hard about z-bo because you don't find players with his skills every day, despite his black hole reputation.

that's a start.

Nalod wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Wow, just read a page of posts where NardDogNation is schooling posters. Walsh definitely hurt the Knicks. That Amare contract is going to kill the next 2 years.

Really think Walsh was the driver to bring in Amare? You really think this is a signiture Walsh move? With everything you know about Dolan, the starphuch manifest, and impatience that this is the kind of contract he would build his legacy on to return to new york and bring a championship?

Everyone entitled to his opinion.

Yes. He(Walsh) even stated as so, back in 2010 that he was going to sign 1 maybe 2 free agents with the cap space HE freed up for the Knicks the last few years. He said Lebron was one Plan A, then he said he Plan B etc.

Plan A) Lebron B)Wade C)Bosh or Boozer D)Nowitzki E)Kobe F)Joe Johnson etc....Z)Amare Stoudemire

All his contingency plans fell through the sewer as everyone shafted the Knicks...Walsh signed STAT in desperation to save face.

Lets be clear, the record speaks for itself so Im not here to defend the legacy, just my interpretation.

I am forever thinking that an owner is the ultimate driver of a team. Nobody signs a 100million player with the health issues and insurance issues without the owners blessing. There are countless owners who are involved in many phases of decisions and I would have to say that the one constant thru the Jimmy era is the starphuch.

Ultimately the job of a president or GM is to take the hit for owner becuase the brand identity has to continue when a change is made. We celebrated Layden departure, Isiah's arrival, his departure, Donnie, and all the coach's over the years because we love our team. When the owner becomes the defacto face of the franchise there is a bigger problem because he won't go away so fast. Cube has made a positive impact and he has his trophy, as did Al Davis of the Raiders, but when it goes bad its hard to wipe the image away unless you hire people around you and fade away.

LIke Steinbrenner did. After a great run in the late 70's George had pissed off Reggie, made the whole Winfield debacle a mess and when he stepped away and let baseball people run things they became a modern dynasty!

Dolan is awful and he won't put his face on the franchise which is a good thing, but that does not mean he does not have big imput thru the organization.

NY and the Knicks have to take a big approach to be successful. Knicks have to compete with other entertainment to attract the $. There are 3 NHL teams, another NBA team, Two NFL teams, Two MLB teams, and minor league baseball and pro soccer. Indy has the Colts and the Pacers. Portand has the Blazers. OKC is also a one team city.

Back to Walsh and the job he did, my take is if you look at the way the Pacers were constructed over the many years there were few where they were bad. Even Isiah as the coach was a regular season success. Walsh's teams were tough and home grown and while no championships, in teh same time frame we did not win either.

So the real question is "who to blame" becomes the real focus? Since Checketts was let go we as fans love to blame the coach's (a long list) and Grunfeld, Layden, Isiah, Donnie and in time Grunfeld will get his. The one constant has been the owner. Dolan made the presentation to Lebron, Dolan was the one who finished the Melo trade when Walsh was resisting the price. Im going to guess Dolan had his hand in Amare. Donnie is long gone.

I started this thread not to rub in the face the knicks were going down but the view that Donnie/Bird have had a long vision and system to which their teams are built. Even bringing in Vogel, the youngest NBA coach and one without the star power is much different than what the knicks do. Woodson was not a starphuch but MDA and to me was a solid addition. The kind of non star moves we should be making!

With Hill's concussion its a sudden turn that gives a glimmer of hope that maybe we can turn this around and in the end the knicks will prevail and Walsh won't have the laugh.

Walsh was at the helm when we signed Amare so if you want to pin it on him I guess its fair game. He has proven to be an organizational kind of guy who never said a bad word about the team or Dolan. He played the MSG game as it is written.

A guy like that I defend because he returned order to the team and paved the way for what we have now. Love my knicks but don't love this roster. That don't make me a hater, its just my take.

I am discouraged the knicks fiscal health is not consistant with what hard core fans want.

I don't agree with some of what you're saying, or conclusions you arrive at but that's a fair take. Dolan's a jackass but he's not a demi-god. People try to pretend like the executives he has hired had no power but their plans were so radically different that they must've had a good amount of autonomy. Layden's agenda was to augment our existing core with past-their-prime-veterans. Isiah's agenda was to build a younger core by continually flipping contracts for marginally better talent. Walsh's agenda was to trade any and everything for cap space. There is little continuity between these 3 plans, so I definitely don't feel that Dolan is as involved with the day-to-day of the team, especially when it comes to signing role players, since he's never been a basketball guy. He probably interfered the one time with the Melo deal but given our track record of ineptitude (including Walsh), wouldn't you be a bit trigger happy? However, Dolan is certainly culpable for the hirings we've made over the years and that I definitely blame him for e.g. Frank Layden over any human being on God's green earth; Isiah Thomas over a Jerry West; Walsh over a Jerry Colanegelo/Kevin Pritchard/Sam Presti; Mike D'Antoni over a Tom Thibodeau/Rick Adelman, etc.

Ok, Im really not in disagreement with your point.

My take is we hire a Larry Brown who was the highest paid, or close to it at the the time. If Isiah is a basketball man, it should be obvious he is the wrong guy for that roster. Larry was a big name at the time, just off Detroits two trips to finals! So its a starphuch, as was Isiah.

We have passed on Phil Jax back in the day because he was not a proven commidity. We let Thibs go because he was not a star. Dolan hired Layden who might have been a decent judge of talent at one time as part of an organization but to me seems like he was much weaker than Grunfeld who butted heads with Dolan. Grunfeld was a Checketts guy and when Dave left, he had clashed with Dolan. There was a time when Ewing held the team hostage and was in steep decline. It might have hurt to let him walk but in the long run we should have. We hired Donnie Nelson who was the wrong coach for a Ewing team! If Donnie coached the 99' with Camby, spree and Allan it was more to his style. Grunfeld traded Oak for Camby and wanted JVG (ewings guy BTW!)out because he would not play Camby.
JVG is a good coach and when he let loose a bit the team made its 99' run!!! If they don't make the finals JVG dont' get extended and its likely he gets let go. Instead he becomes a fan favorite and Grunfeld already put himself in a corner and had to go.
Im saying that there is a large sequence of bad decisions made regarding who is hired and the decisions not consistant.

MDA was a system guy who was going to run his thing. You pay a guy 24 million not to adapt. Same for Larry. MDA was bought in to coach Lebron and friends, not Amare and Melo. It was clear MDA was miserable in his job. My take is why hire a guy and not feed him the roster he wants. DOn't bring in personal to make decisons or coach rosters that are not condusive to their talents.

For that, I blame Dolan. Dysfuncition usually starts at the top. The whole organizational failure of Isiah, the cap, the taxes,Spree's dimise, Ewings bad exit, Anucha, the trail, the lawyers, the media police they have, Larry's press conference on the highway, Marbury's empowerment and subsequent exile, MDA's hiring, the poorly orchestrated lebron visit (Donnie was weak and Dolan gave a bizzare presention), The bromance with Isiah and many other instances are just not things that happen in a well run franchise.

There is a fear that rebuilding would lose to many fans, revenue and in the face of the nyets its something nobody wants to do.

With seemingly unlimited resources it just seems to be spent on areas that don't tranlate over the years like teams in San Antonio, Indiana, Boston, Miami, and Lakers. All these teams had to have pain from time to time to aquire the assets to rebuild.

I completely agree with what you're saying now. The problem is that Dolan is partial toward "yes men" and not guys willing to tell him the truth. That comes at a tradeoff, where competence is sacrificed for cronism (see Scott Layden).

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Wow, just read a page of posts where NardDogNation is schooling posters. Walsh definitely hurt the Knicks. That Amare contract is going to kill the next 2 years.

Really think Walsh was the driver to bring in Amare? You really think this is a signiture Walsh move? With everything you know about Dolan, the starphuch manifest, and impatience that this is the kind of contract he would build his legacy on to return to new york and bring a championship?

Everyone entitled to his opinion.

Yes. He(Walsh) even stated as so, back in 2010 that he was going to sign 1 maybe 2 free agents with the cap space HE freed up for the Knicks the last few years. He said Lebron was one Plan A, then he said he Plan B etc.

Plan A) Lebron B)Wade C)Bosh or Boozer D)Nowitzki E)Kobe F)Joe Johnson etc....Z)Amare Stoudemire

All his contingency plans fell through the sewer as everyone shafted the Knicks...Walsh signed STAT in desperation to save face.

"save face" to whom? know-nothing fans who needed to have their patience rewarded? a meddlesome know-nothing owner who destroys his toys?

it was neither a desperation move or a move to save face. he had no other choice given the pressure of ownership and the fanbase.

imagine the reaction if he did nothing.

it was a move of necessity even if the motivation for that move was in the form of the ignorant masses.

5 years, $100 million to micro-fracture in both knees, bad eyed Amare with no insurance, needed a good faith meeting with D'Antoni to patch up feud...

Sounds pretty desperate to me!

tell me what walsh "should have" done instead please.

He should have signed MJax to coach. He should have drafted for need when he took gallo. There was a ton of talent in that draft and to take a forward when you already had Wilson and Lee made little sense. If Jax was in place my guess is he drafts Bropez in the gallo draft and a point in the Hill draft. If that happens I don't see the desperation to create space for two stars. He would have a good young core in place and cap space for one star.

I want to, wish I could but, can't find a single thing there I disagree with

Also the whole idea of sucking for 2 before trying to put together a Roster that would suit him is stupid. You don't build the roster to suit the coach, you hire a coach to suit the roster.

Also, with the proper coach, Zach and the others could have evolved with pieces added to make a winning team. We didn't value some of the guys we had the way we should have. I wish we still had Zach and Lee.

Nalod wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Wow, just read a page of posts where NardDogNation is schooling posters. Walsh definitely hurt the Knicks. That Amare contract is going to kill the next 2 years.

Really think Walsh was the driver to bring in Amare? You really think this is a signiture Walsh move? With everything you know about Dolan, the starphuch manifest, and impatience that this is the kind of contract he would build his legacy on to return to new york and bring a championship?

Everyone entitled to his opinion.

Yes. He(Walsh) even stated as so, back in 2010 that he was going to sign 1 maybe 2 free agents with the cap space HE freed up for the Knicks the last few years. He said Lebron was one Plan A, then he said he Plan B etc.

Plan A) Lebron B)Wade C)Bosh or Boozer D)Nowitzki E)Kobe F)Joe Johnson etc....Z)Amare Stoudemire

All his contingency plans fell through the sewer as everyone shafted the Knicks...Walsh signed STAT in desperation to save face.

The scary thing is that if we had a choice, we would've been landing BOTH Joe Johnson and Amar'e. Imagine paying $21 million for a 33 year old SG averaging 16ppg, 3rpg and 4apg alongside Amar'e.

Think, Look at his age.

Second, what was the price getting Johnson would be compared to Melo. Much less.

Its not "Melo or Johnson". I could have a differnt team. ONe thats better? Im not sure.

Nalod "sits on the fence" to get the view of both sides and ponders it. Playa things Im not brave to take a stand. This is not about who is right or wrong, thats childs play. The ultimate result is what happens on the court.

If you want to go down in the gutter and squabble, thats your call.

Fair. I presume we could've always moved Johnson to the Nets like the Hawks did but I find it difficult to make the case that we'd be a better team with the 2010-2011 roster and Joe Johnson. Johnson has a history of disappearing in the playoffs and would've been on his own since Amare would've been hurt (most likely). Gallo and Chandler would've been his no.2 and no.3 punch but they've been similarly injury-prone/inconsistent since we've traded them. And we would not have Raymond Felton and Timofey Mozgov since the 2nd max contract worth of cap space we had was used on them as opposed to a 2nd star (e.g. Joe Johnson).

I'd see this particular team as a perennial 8th seed (ala the Bucks), which we'd have to blow up and rebuild to ever realistically compete. With Melo, we're already an elite team that is only a piece or two away. I much prefer our present reality.

And for the record, I'm not looking for a squabble, just civil debate. Nothing more or less.

Agreed, But Im not sure we are elite, that melo is that kind of player, and if the pieces are not attainable because we don't have the means we have to gamble on crusty vets and unstable talents like JR. I long thought Dolan was more afraid of Nets getting Melo than consideration of his fit with team and coach. Dolan likes stars. I get it.

Without melo and those assets used in another fashion I just don't know what we look like. I doubt Linsanity ever happens as it was very circumstantial. Shame we can't cultivate talent. We got felton as a free agent once, used him in the melo trade, but cost us a valueable asset (Stashed Euro) who might be a good player. Could we have used Kostas (the euro) and Lin? I get the poison pill, but if we were not so capped and linsanity happens, we have those, with (conceptually) Gallo, wilson, Moz....our picks.......and cap space perhaps? Ability to attract players as free agents and then trade off assets to round out the roster?

I think this is where some confuse Melo hate. I don't particually dislike melo but I don't love him. Its way to complicated to derive a scenario other than "if not melo, then you think we can be as good with Gallo/Wilson? Sitting on the fence, I sometimes ponder the wider implications of not making that deal. Maybe we have to make that deal because we took on Amare and all the risk with that. So Nalod's lament is Amare was a bad move that lead to others.

Nalod saw what MDA has done with marginal talent and that could have been our rebuilding moment. No amare, just a young team with Dlee, Gallo, Wilson, and even felton. I dont' even mind if we trade those guys as assets but with a ton of cap space, some picks, some euros and creativity we could be further long than teams like Denver and Houstan and thru it maybe drafted or traded to get some all star players. Harden shook lose, Dwight shook lose, CP3 shook loose, Deron shook loose,etc. Memphis rebuilt and has good value players. Maybe other things could have happend. Love knicks, don't love this roster.

On the fence, I can see things and I don't always like the view. I can't see the long view from here but I see lots of older guys, a ball stopping star scorer, an desert thirsty club hopper who has all star talent, and a 14 mil center who does not look to take a shot unless its inside 3 feet from the rim. Amare is my favorite knick but damaged and unreliable.

Your not NYKmentality BTW, sorry to call you out on that.

I get what you're saying and its been a point I've made in other threads. Its been fairly evident that the three methods for improving a team involve are (1) trades, (2) cap space and (3) the draft. For whatever reason with Isiah, we had been forgoing option 2 and 3 of the equation and I can't understand why we'd choose to limit ourselves so badly. Year after we seemed to be continually shooting ourselves in the foot and I personally did not see a difference in the methodology until Grunwald took control e.g. letting Lin walk and signing a cheaper, more productive Raymond Felton.

As for 2010, Walsh was in no doubt a tough situation but I still feel like he brought that onto himself. It's much easier to build a dam than try to make a river flow in reverse. Was cap space important? Absolutely but was it worth inhibiting our ability to draft players and make trades, to have it just one year sooner? I personally don't think so and never did; even if LeBron was available. It turned out to be the same one option heavy methodology Isiah was using but instead of trades, Walsh focused on cap space.

Following that 23 win season, he had to have known that he would be dealing from a position of weakness. What he should've done is pledged not to sign any players whose contracts ran past 2010 and then attempt to build a cohesive lineup around what he already had. For all the negativity surrounding the Knicks roster, youth and talent was not one of them. We should've let D'Antoni's system work its magic to artificially inflate their value AND THEN moved them IF NECESSARY. After all, D'Antoni was well on his way to doing that when we got out to the 5-3 start. After all, I thought the whole purpose of bringing in D'Antoni was to run his system to make players look better than they actually were and like you, felt we should've been building toward that aim. Instead, we moved three players who would inevitably be key figures on contenders (David Lee with GS, Crawford with ATL/LAC, Randolph with MEM) while losing draft picks to sign a guy with bum knees (Amare) who was no better than what we lost (Randolph).

ChuckBuck wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Wow, just read a page of posts where NardDogNation is schooling posters. Walsh definitely hurt the Knicks. That Amare contract is going to kill the next 2 years.

Really think Walsh was the driver to bring in Amare? You really think this is a signiture Walsh move? With everything you know about Dolan, the starphuch manifest, and impatience that this is the kind of contract he would build his legacy on to return to new york and bring a championship?

Everyone entitled to his opinion.

Yes. He(Walsh) even stated as so, back in 2010 that he was going to sign 1 maybe 2 free agents with the cap space HE freed up for the Knicks the last few years. He said Lebron was one Plan A, then he said he Plan B etc.

Plan A) Lebron B)Wade C)Bosh or Boozer D)Nowitzki E)Kobe F)Joe Johnson etc....Z)Amare Stoudemire

All his contingency plans fell through the sewer as everyone shafted the Knicks...Walsh signed STAT in desperation to save face.

"save face" to whom? know-nothing fans who needed to have their patience rewarded? a meddlesome know-nothing owner who destroys his toys?

it was neither a desperation move or a move to save face. he had no other choice given the pressure of ownership and the fanbase.

imagine the reaction if he did nothing.

it was a move of necessity even if the motivation for that move was in the form of the ignorant masses.

5 years, $100 million to micro-fracture in both knees, bad eyed Amare with no insurance, needed a good faith meeting with D'Antoni to patch up feud...

Sounds pretty desperate to me!

tell me what walsh "should have" done instead please.

He should have signed MJax to coach. He should have drafted for need when he took gallo. There was a ton of talent in that draft and to take a forward when you already had Wilson and Lee made little sense. If Jax was in place my guess is he drafts Bropez in the gallo draft and a point in the Hill draft. If that happens I don't see the desperation to create space for two stars. He would have a good young core in place and cap space for one star.

BINGO! Jax or Thibadeau instead of a system coach in D'antoni for starters...

I didn't think then and I don't think now that D'Antoni was a bad signing. We were coming off a 23 win season and needed his gimmicky system to inflate the players market value, which is exactly what D'Antoni did in Phoenix (see Eddie House, Boris Diaw, Tim Thomas, etc.). I always thought that he was sort of a sacrificial lamb to get us what we needed, until we could find a real playoff coach. Apparently that wasn't the case because we kept him around beyond 2010 and the rest is history.

NardDogNation wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Wow, just read a page of posts where NardDogNation is schooling posters. Walsh definitely hurt the Knicks. That Amare contract is going to kill the next 2 years.

Really think Walsh was the driver to bring in Amare? You really think this is a signiture Walsh move? With everything you know about Dolan, the starphuch manifest, and impatience that this is the kind of contract he would build his legacy on to return to new york and bring a championship?

Everyone entitled to his opinion.

Yes. He(Walsh) even stated as so, back in 2010 that he was going to sign 1 maybe 2 free agents with the cap space HE freed up for the Knicks the last few years. He said Lebron was one Plan A, then he said he Plan B etc.

Plan A) Lebron B)Wade C)Bosh or Boozer D)Nowitzki E)Kobe F)Joe Johnson etc....Z)Amare Stoudemire

All his contingency plans fell through the sewer as everyone shafted the Knicks...Walsh signed STAT in desperation to save face.

"save face" to whom? know-nothing fans who needed to have their patience rewarded? a meddlesome know-nothing owner who destroys his toys?

it was neither a desperation move or a move to save face. he had no other choice given the pressure of ownership and the fanbase.

imagine the reaction if he did nothing.

it was a move of necessity even if the motivation for that move was in the form of the ignorant masses.

5 years, $100 million to micro-fracture in both knees, bad eyed Amare with no insurance, needed a good faith meeting with D'Antoni to patch up feud...

Sounds pretty desperate to me!

tell me what walsh "should have" done instead please.

He should have signed MJax to coach. He should have drafted for need when he took gallo. There was a ton of talent in that draft and to take a forward when you already had Wilson and Lee made little sense. If Jax was in place my guess is he drafts Bropez in the gallo draft and a point in the Hill draft. If that happens I don't see the desperation to create space for two stars. He would have a good young core in place and cap space for one star.

BINGO! Jax or Thibadeau instead of a system coach in D'antoni for starters...

I didn't think then and I don't think now that D'Antoni was a bad signing. We were coming off a 23 win season and needed his gimmicky system to inflate the players market value, which is exactly what D'Antoni did in Phoenix (see Eddie House, Boris Diaw, Tim Thomas, etc.). I always thought that he was sort of a sacrificial lamb to get us what we needed, until we could find a real playoff coach. Apparently that wasn't the case because we kept him around beyond 2010 and the rest is history.

Yes, I see it very similar. Why hire coaches and not have the roster for them? Why ask them to adapt AFTER THE FACT? I don't think a diva systems coach will take it on. I think he did adapt when he was asked to work with Amare. He likley said from day on He would not coach Marbury. Just guessing.

I thinmk most fans are looking at the aftermath and not into the pre-emptive moves that lead to decisions. This is why the knick are so frustrating. MDA and Larry are good with young guys that will play a system. If not, you need a Woodson type to manage the personality. A lot of coaches don't like Melo. Mooby is not univerally loved. He is respected, but not loved.