NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Need to blow this **** up. Unfortunately, Melo is the only desirable asset we have. No one will touch Amare without a sweetener or even Chandler. Shump can be viewed now as damaged goods. JR is JR. Felton is just not that good.

Melo needs a 2nd superstar to play with him to be successful.

I would send do this trade with Cleveland which would pair Melo with Kyrie Irving and they have their Bosh type player in Varejao which would play well with Melo.

Melo for Speights, Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, Alonzo Gee, CLE 1st round pick 3rd overall, both CLE 2nd round picks 31st and 33rd overall.

Why would CLE do this? This will leave CLE with a 1st round pick 19th overall so they still have some yoot coming in. They now will have a big 3 in Melo, Irving and Varejao that will actually work well together. They will also have some cap to sign a very good big in the mold of Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap. This roster will actually put them in the playoffs.

Why do we do this? We get their 1st round pick overall. We get 2 young lottery players in Waiters and Thompson. We get 2 early 2nd round picks. We get yoothier right away.

I would not re-sign anybody from our current roster except for Copeland. Including Pablo. I would let JR walk if he exercises his option.

I would then try to see if Lakers would take Amare and Shump for Gasol. Amare is more MDA's player and maybe they can have a Suns revival in LaLa land. Amare and Nash have the same length in contract. Gasol contract is 1 year shorter than Amare. Also, imagine Shump and the Black Mamba terrorizing the other teams backcourt with defense?

I would also try to get rid Camby. Maybe send him to ORL for TurkeyGlue's expiring contract. Camby and Felton for TurkeyGlue.

Now for the draft. I am not a college basketball guy so I will defer to BRIGGS scouting on this. I really like his reports and he has been more right than wrong in most cases.

For the 1st round pick 3rd overall, I am looking the PG spot or a big center. Looking at BRIGGS Top 10 NBA prospects, Alen Len and CJ McCollum caught my eye. Our need for a PG weighs heavily and If CJ's comparison is Steph Curry then I am picking CJ McCollum.

For our own 24th pick I am looking for a SF. GIANNIS ADETOKUNBO. This kid will be a sleeper.

For the 31st pick, 1st pick in the 2nd round, I will select the BRIGGS favorite. Nate Wolters. He is not projected in the 1st round so he might be available in the 2nd round.

For the 33rd pick, I am looking for a SG with very good shooting skills. Allen Crabbe. NBADraft.net compares him to Hubbert Davis.

Roster would look like this.

C- Chandler/Speights
PF- Gasol/Thompson
SF- Copeland/ADETOKUNBO/Novak/TurkeyGlue
SG- Waiters/Gee/Crabbe
PF- McCollum/Wolters/Kidd

You have 2 young guards in Waiters and McCollum that can shoot. SF will be by committee until Adetokunbo is ready. Chandler and Gasol will protect the paint.

Boom!

EDIT: Fire Woody and sign JVG.

Dude, no. Remember that the grass is always greener. We're no doubt a middling team but that is a better option than being perennially stuck in the lottery. All our contracts expire in 2015, so lets just sit tight, enjoy the show and begin making moves then if they are necessary. That free agent class has Kyrie Irving, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love and Paul George in it.

These moves will put us in play for the 2015 FA class.

I disagree. You attractive stars with other stars (see Wade attracting Bosh and LeBron). None of the guys you mentioned have star potential/or will be stars by 2015. The safer bet is to keep Melo, to at least facilitate a sign and trade for a member of the 2015 group I mentioned.

You have to keep Melo. In 2015 at the latest, give him another star to play with. Melo will be older and hopefully start transitioning into a 1B or #2 option with the addition of a true star player. Grass really isn't always greener. You can't just trade Melo. We saw what happened to OKC with Durant on his own too. Be patient and happy that we are a good, but not great team. Much better than being a lotto team. It is not that easy to rebuild. In 2015 if things are still the same we can sign another star to join Melo, Shumpert, and Felton. It should be a given around here that Melo isn't going anywhere, nor should he, so start focusing on how to improve with him in the plans.

I agree that Melo is top talent...but here is the rub. How do you get capable players to play with him? We are handicapped right now with Amare's contract. Tyson is proving to be a bad match in the frontline with Melo. You need a C that can actually hit an outside shot and rebounds at a high clip. How are you getting this? That is 3 contracts that will stop us from improving. I was actually wearing my Knick Colored glasses when that trio was introduced. I thought it was a great match. Dang...I was wrong. I like Melo's game minus the blackhole part, but if you can't get him the right pieces then he becomes an asset. That roster I suggested would actually get you to the playoffs.

Would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a geriatric group or would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a yoothier core with a mixture of established veterans that has a better future? I would take the latter.

With the Wizards, Raptors and Pistons looming as playoff threats the next few seasons, I doubt the playoffs would be a guarantee for your roster. The appreciation of young talent comes from what they can become and seldom on what they actually are. Those guys will likely have flashes of brilliance during the season but flashes of anything does not produce the effort needed to build a winning team. Its the main reason why seasoned coaches are reluctant to play young players. I for one, am tired of looking at marginal talents like Channing Frye, Trevor Ariza, Nate Robinson, Gallinari and Wilson Chandler, while listening to Knick fans trying to make an argument that these guys will be perennial all-star caliber players.

Trading away Carmelo is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Yes, we don't have very much flexibility for improving the team but that doesn't mean that we don't have options. I personally think that most of our guys have market value and that is most of the battle when it comes to making a good trade. We just need to be crafty, which Grunwald has proven to be. The one thing he should look to improve upon, however, is to groom young talent in the back-end of the roster like what Briggs has been suggesting. You never know when you might be able to stumble across a Marc Gasol, Nikola Pekovic, Marcin Gortat, etc.

Banking on young talent is tough and you really have to have some kind of skill in evaluating talent. You can trust the people that are paid to do this and make educated guesses. The roster I have suggested will actually have 2 number 4 picks in the last 2 years. Tristan is the #4 pick in 2011 and Waiters is the #4 pick last year. Plus you get the #3 pick this year. These are not marginal talents.

Trading Carmelo right now while his value is high is good business.

Problem contracts are Melo, Tyson, Camby, Kidd and Novak. They have value to get you players to run with Melo?

NYKBocker wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Need to blow this **** up. Unfortunately, Melo is the only desirable asset we have. No one will touch Amare without a sweetener or even Chandler. Shump can be viewed now as damaged goods. JR is JR. Felton is just not that good.

Melo needs a 2nd superstar to play with him to be successful.

I would send do this trade with Cleveland which would pair Melo with Kyrie Irving and they have their Bosh type player in Varejao which would play well with Melo.

Melo for Speights, Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, Alonzo Gee, CLE 1st round pick 3rd overall, both CLE 2nd round picks 31st and 33rd overall.

Why would CLE do this? This will leave CLE with a 1st round pick 19th overall so they still have some yoot coming in. They now will have a big 3 in Melo, Irving and Varejao that will actually work well together. They will also have some cap to sign a very good big in the mold of Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap. This roster will actually put them in the playoffs.

Why do we do this? We get their 1st round pick overall. We get 2 young lottery players in Waiters and Thompson. We get 2 early 2nd round picks. We get yoothier right away.

I would not re-sign anybody from our current roster except for Copeland. Including Pablo. I would let JR walk if he exercises his option.

I would then try to see if Lakers would take Amare and Shump for Gasol. Amare is more MDA's player and maybe they can have a Suns revival in LaLa land. Amare and Nash have the same length in contract. Gasol contract is 1 year shorter than Amare. Also, imagine Shump and the Black Mamba terrorizing the other teams backcourt with defense?

I would also try to get rid Camby. Maybe send him to ORL for TurkeyGlue's expiring contract. Camby and Felton for TurkeyGlue.

Now for the draft. I am not a college basketball guy so I will defer to BRIGGS scouting on this. I really like his reports and he has been more right than wrong in most cases.

For the 1st round pick 3rd overall, I am looking the PG spot or a big center. Looking at BRIGGS Top 10 NBA prospects, Alen Len and CJ McCollum caught my eye. Our need for a PG weighs heavily and If CJ's comparison is Steph Curry then I am picking CJ McCollum.

For our own 24th pick I am looking for a SF. GIANNIS ADETOKUNBO. This kid will be a sleeper.

For the 31st pick, 1st pick in the 2nd round, I will select the BRIGGS favorite. Nate Wolters. He is not projected in the 1st round so he might be available in the 2nd round.

For the 33rd pick, I am looking for a SG with very good shooting skills. Allen Crabbe. NBADraft.net compares him to Hubbert Davis.

Roster would look like this.

C- Chandler/Speights
PF- Gasol/Thompson
SF- Copeland/ADETOKUNBO/Novak/TurkeyGlue
SG- Waiters/Gee/Crabbe
PF- McCollum/Wolters/Kidd

You have 2 young guards in Waiters and McCollum that can shoot. SF will be by committee until Adetokunbo is ready. Chandler and Gasol will protect the paint.

Boom!

EDIT: Fire Woody and sign JVG.

Dude, no. Remember that the grass is always greener. We're no doubt a middling team but that is a better option than being perennially stuck in the lottery. All our contracts expire in 2015, so lets just sit tight, enjoy the show and begin making moves then if they are necessary. That free agent class has Kyrie Irving, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love and Paul George in it.

These moves will put us in play for the 2015 FA class.

I disagree. You attractive stars with other stars (see Wade attracting Bosh and LeBron). None of the guys you mentioned have star potential/or will be stars by 2015. The safer bet is to keep Melo, to at least facilitate a sign and trade for a member of the 2015 group I mentioned.

You have to keep Melo. In 2015 at the latest, give him another star to play with. Melo will be older and hopefully start transitioning into a 1B or #2 option with the addition of a true star player. Grass really isn't always greener. You can't just trade Melo. We saw what happened to OKC with Durant on his own too. Be patient and happy that we are a good, but not great team. Much better than being a lotto team. It is not that easy to rebuild. In 2015 if things are still the same we can sign another star to join Melo, Shumpert, and Felton. It should be a given around here that Melo isn't going anywhere, nor should he, so start focusing on how to improve with him in the plans.

I agree that Melo is top talent...but here is the rub. How do you get capable players to play with him? We are handicapped right now with Amare's contract. Tyson is proving to be a bad match in the frontline with Melo. You need a C that can actually hit an outside shot and rebounds at a high clip. How are you getting this? That is 3 contracts that will stop us from improving. I was actually wearing my Knick Colored glasses when that trio was introduced. I thought it was a great match. Dang...I was wrong. I like Melo's game minus the blackhole part, but if you can't get him the right pieces then he becomes an asset. That roster I suggested would actually get you to the playoffs.

Would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a geriatric group or would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a yoothier core with a mixture of established veterans that has a better future? I would take the latter.

Why does everyone act like we are cap strapped forever? It's 2 years. It could actually be less seeing how large contracts become assets in the final year. Until then let's just see what happens. We will be able to start things up again in 2 years or sooner and can enjoy a couple playoff runs until then. Rebuilding is not the answer.

THE SKY IS FALLING

Isn't it? This team was built to go to the ECF this year and to the Finals next year. You think we are getting there anytime soon? Unless somebody can flip the roster where they can actually help Melo next year get to the ECF then I would say that this path is not working.

Now if the plan is what Akrud has mentioned in another thread, then mission accomplished.

I don't think so - I think the team has improved each year since the master plan has been effectuated. If things aren't rocking and rolling next year I'll be more than a little upset and unnerved. I can't think of one team in the history of sports that won anything of significance without the core first tasting the disappointment of failure

AnubisADL wrote:Knicks just need to get a little younger at PG and a competent PF.

The Knicks dont need superstars at every position. We just need better balance.

Someone like Ryan Anderson at PF and Greivis Vasquez at PG. Even if that means packaging Shumpert, Felton, and our pick.

Chandler
Anderson
Melo
????
Greivis

If we could also swing a deal for Deandre and Bledsoe we'd have

Jordan
Anderson
Melo
Vasquez
Bledsoe

Knicks have options depending on what they are willing to give up. Obviously that team isn't competing for a championship next year. Keeps our cap manageable as well.

I like Anderson and Vasquez but at the expense of Shumpert? I'm not sure about that and I don't like losing Felton's moxy. Do I have my Knick googles on for this one?

I like your Chandler deal for Bledsoe and Jordan though. It improves the team but also opens the door to other deals including those two guys (you know I like Rondo). Do you think Bledsoe can handle running the point full-time though or is he just a more athletic Raymond Felton?

On a side, what do you think of Pau Gasol at this point in his career? I personally think that he'd be a great fit at the 5 next to Melo. We'd need a lengthy defender on the court that can help (like a Ekpe Udoh) but I think this could work well on both ends of the floor.

Bigger Lineup
C Jordan
PF Anthony
SF Copeland
SG Shumpert
PG Bledsoe
6th Felton/Stoudemire

Smaller Lineup
C Jordan
PF Anthony
SF Shumpert
SG Felton
PG Bledsoe
6th Stoudemire

yellowboy90 wrote:Jordan Ft shooting scares me.

That is the only reason we can trade for him. We arent going to get back an Aldridge type talent for Chandler.

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Need to blow this **** up. Unfortunately, Melo is the only desirable asset we have. No one will touch Amare without a sweetener or even Chandler. Shump can be viewed now as damaged goods. JR is JR. Felton is just not that good.

Melo needs a 2nd superstar to play with him to be successful.

I would send do this trade with Cleveland which would pair Melo with Kyrie Irving and they have their Bosh type player in Varejao which would play well with Melo.

Melo for Speights, Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, Alonzo Gee, CLE 1st round pick 3rd overall, both CLE 2nd round picks 31st and 33rd overall.

Why would CLE do this? This will leave CLE with a 1st round pick 19th overall so they still have some yoot coming in. They now will have a big 3 in Melo, Irving and Varejao that will actually work well together. They will also have some cap to sign a very good big in the mold of Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap. This roster will actually put them in the playoffs.

Why do we do this? We get their 1st round pick overall. We get 2 young lottery players in Waiters and Thompson. We get 2 early 2nd round picks. We get yoothier right away.

I would not re-sign anybody from our current roster except for Copeland. Including Pablo. I would let JR walk if he exercises his option.

I would then try to see if Lakers would take Amare and Shump for Gasol. Amare is more MDA's player and maybe they can have a Suns revival in LaLa land. Amare and Nash have the same length in contract. Gasol contract is 1 year shorter than Amare. Also, imagine Shump and the Black Mamba terrorizing the other teams backcourt with defense?

I would also try to get rid Camby. Maybe send him to ORL for TurkeyGlue's expiring contract. Camby and Felton for TurkeyGlue.

Now for the draft. I am not a college basketball guy so I will defer to BRIGGS scouting on this. I really like his reports and he has been more right than wrong in most cases.

For the 1st round pick 3rd overall, I am looking the PG spot or a big center. Looking at BRIGGS Top 10 NBA prospects, Alen Len and CJ McCollum caught my eye. Our need for a PG weighs heavily and If CJ's comparison is Steph Curry then I am picking CJ McCollum.

For our own 24th pick I am looking for a SF. GIANNIS ADETOKUNBO. This kid will be a sleeper.

For the 31st pick, 1st pick in the 2nd round, I will select the BRIGGS favorite. Nate Wolters. He is not projected in the 1st round so he might be available in the 2nd round.

For the 33rd pick, I am looking for a SG with very good shooting skills. Allen Crabbe. NBADraft.net compares him to Hubbert Davis.

Roster would look like this.

C- Chandler/Speights
PF- Gasol/Thompson
SF- Copeland/ADETOKUNBO/Novak/TurkeyGlue
SG- Waiters/Gee/Crabbe
PF- McCollum/Wolters/Kidd

You have 2 young guards in Waiters and McCollum that can shoot. SF will be by committee until Adetokunbo is ready. Chandler and Gasol will protect the paint.

Boom!

EDIT: Fire Woody and sign JVG.

Dude, no. Remember that the grass is always greener. We're no doubt a middling team but that is a better option than being perennially stuck in the lottery. All our contracts expire in 2015, so lets just sit tight, enjoy the show and begin making moves then if they are necessary. That free agent class has Kyrie Irving, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love and Paul George in it.

These moves will put us in play for the 2015 FA class.

I disagree. You attractive stars with other stars (see Wade attracting Bosh and LeBron). None of the guys you mentioned have star potential/or will be stars by 2015. The safer bet is to keep Melo, to at least facilitate a sign and trade for a member of the 2015 group I mentioned.

You have to keep Melo. In 2015 at the latest, give him another star to play with. Melo will be older and hopefully start transitioning into a 1B or #2 option with the addition of a true star player. Grass really isn't always greener. You can't just trade Melo. We saw what happened to OKC with Durant on his own too. Be patient and happy that we are a good, but not great team. Much better than being a lotto team. It is not that easy to rebuild. In 2015 if things are still the same we can sign another star to join Melo, Shumpert, and Felton. It should be a given around here that Melo isn't going anywhere, nor should he, so start focusing on how to improve with him in the plans.

I agree that Melo is top talent...but here is the rub. How do you get capable players to play with him? We are handicapped right now with Amare's contract. Tyson is proving to be a bad match in the frontline with Melo. You need a C that can actually hit an outside shot and rebounds at a high clip. How are you getting this? That is 3 contracts that will stop us from improving. I was actually wearing my Knick Colored glasses when that trio was introduced. I thought it was a great match. Dang...I was wrong. I like Melo's game minus the blackhole part, but if you can't get him the right pieces then he becomes an asset. That roster I suggested would actually get you to the playoffs.

Would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a geriatric group or would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a yoothier core with a mixture of established veterans that has a better future? I would take the latter.

With the Wizards, Raptors and Pistons looming as playoff threats the next few seasons, I doubt the playoffs would be a guarantee for your roster. The appreciation of young talent comes from what they can become and seldom on what they actually are. Those guys will likely have flashes of brilliance during the season but flashes of anything does not produce the effort needed to build a winning team. Its the main reason why seasoned coaches are reluctant to play young players. I for one, am tired of looking at marginal talents like Channing Frye, Trevor Ariza, Nate Robinson, Gallinari and Wilson Chandler, while listening to Knick fans trying to make an argument that these guys will be perennial all-star caliber players.

Trading away Carmelo is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Yes, we don't have very much flexibility for improving the team but that doesn't mean that we don't have options. I personally think that most of our guys have market value and that is most of the battle when it comes to making a good trade. We just need to be crafty, which Grunwald has proven to be. The one thing he should look to improve upon, however, is to groom young talent in the back-end of the roster like what Briggs has been suggesting. You never know when you might be able to stumble across a Marc Gasol, Nikola Pekovic, Marcin Gortat, etc.

Banking on young talent is tough and you really have to have some kind of skill in evaluating talent. You can trust the people that are paid to do this and make educated guesses. The roster I have suggested will actually have 2 number 4 picks in the last 2 years. Tristan is the #4 pick in 2011 and Waiters is the #4 pick last year. Plus you get the #3 pick this year. These are not marginal talents.

Trading Carmelo right now while his value is high is good business.

Problem contracts are Melo, Tyson, Camby, Kidd and Novak. They have value to get you players to run with Melo?

Trading Melo is not good business because you won't get equal value back, and can't replace him. And honestly there is no reason to discuss it because zero reason he gets traded. It makes no sense from a business standpoint either. Why trade him just to try to work your way back up to where we are now. A 53-win team and 2nd round exit is what we would get out of that team when they fully develop in 3-5 years as best case scenario. No point in that. We are a 2nd round team now with an out in 2 years. Continue to build off of our big pieces in Anthony and Shumpert. They are the reason the future is still bright. We have one of the best scorers in the league at 28 years old and one of the best future perimeter defenders at 23.

you would trade him to get past where you are now.. build a team that is built to contend for a title... that would be the idea...

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Need to blow this **** up. Unfortunately, Melo is the only desirable asset we have. No one will touch Amare without a sweetener or even Chandler. Shump can be viewed now as damaged goods. JR is JR. Felton is just not that good.

Melo needs a 2nd superstar to play with him to be successful.

I would send do this trade with Cleveland which would pair Melo with Kyrie Irving and they have their Bosh type player in Varejao which would play well with Melo.

Melo for Speights, Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, Alonzo Gee, CLE 1st round pick 3rd overall, both CLE 2nd round picks 31st and 33rd overall.

Why would CLE do this? This will leave CLE with a 1st round pick 19th overall so they still have some yoot coming in. They now will have a big 3 in Melo, Irving and Varejao that will actually work well together. They will also have some cap to sign a very good big in the mold of Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap. This roster will actually put them in the playoffs.

Why do we do this? We get their 1st round pick overall. We get 2 young lottery players in Waiters and Thompson. We get 2 early 2nd round picks. We get yoothier right away.

I would not re-sign anybody from our current roster except for Copeland. Including Pablo. I would let JR walk if he exercises his option.

I would then try to see if Lakers would take Amare and Shump for Gasol. Amare is more MDA's player and maybe they can have a Suns revival in LaLa land. Amare and Nash have the same length in contract. Gasol contract is 1 year shorter than Amare. Also, imagine Shump and the Black Mamba terrorizing the other teams backcourt with defense?

I would also try to get rid Camby. Maybe send him to ORL for TurkeyGlue's expiring contract. Camby and Felton for TurkeyGlue.

Now for the draft. I am not a college basketball guy so I will defer to BRIGGS scouting on this. I really like his reports and he has been more right than wrong in most cases.

For the 1st round pick 3rd overall, I am looking the PG spot or a big center. Looking at BRIGGS Top 10 NBA prospects, Alen Len and CJ McCollum caught my eye. Our need for a PG weighs heavily and If CJ's comparison is Steph Curry then I am picking CJ McCollum.

For our own 24th pick I am looking for a SF. GIANNIS ADETOKUNBO. This kid will be a sleeper.

For the 31st pick, 1st pick in the 2nd round, I will select the BRIGGS favorite. Nate Wolters. He is not projected in the 1st round so he might be available in the 2nd round.

For the 33rd pick, I am looking for a SG with very good shooting skills. Allen Crabbe. NBADraft.net compares him to Hubbert Davis.

Roster would look like this.

C- Chandler/Speights
PF- Gasol/Thompson
SF- Copeland/ADETOKUNBO/Novak/TurkeyGlue
SG- Waiters/Gee/Crabbe
PF- McCollum/Wolters/Kidd

You have 2 young guards in Waiters and McCollum that can shoot. SF will be by committee until Adetokunbo is ready. Chandler and Gasol will protect the paint.

Boom!

EDIT: Fire Woody and sign JVG.

Dude, no. Remember that the grass is always greener. We're no doubt a middling team but that is a better option than being perennially stuck in the lottery. All our contracts expire in 2015, so lets just sit tight, enjoy the show and begin making moves then if they are necessary. That free agent class has Kyrie Irving, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love and Paul George in it.

These moves will put us in play for the 2015 FA class.

I disagree. You attractive stars with other stars (see Wade attracting Bosh and LeBron). None of the guys you mentioned have star potential/or will be stars by 2015. The safer bet is to keep Melo, to at least facilitate a sign and trade for a member of the 2015 group I mentioned.

You have to keep Melo. In 2015 at the latest, give him another star to play with. Melo will be older and hopefully start transitioning into a 1B or #2 option with the addition of a true star player. Grass really isn't always greener. You can't just trade Melo. We saw what happened to OKC with Durant on his own too. Be patient and happy that we are a good, but not great team. Much better than being a lotto team. It is not that easy to rebuild. In 2015 if things are still the same we can sign another star to join Melo, Shumpert, and Felton. It should be a given around here that Melo isn't going anywhere, nor should he, so start focusing on how to improve with him in the plans.

I agree that Melo is top talent...but here is the rub. How do you get capable players to play with him? We are handicapped right now with Amare's contract. Tyson is proving to be a bad match in the frontline with Melo. You need a C that can actually hit an outside shot and rebounds at a high clip. How are you getting this? That is 3 contracts that will stop us from improving. I was actually wearing my Knick Colored glasses when that trio was introduced. I thought it was a great match. Dang...I was wrong. I like Melo's game minus the blackhole part, but if you can't get him the right pieces then he becomes an asset. That roster I suggested would actually get you to the playoffs.

Would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a geriatric group or would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a yoothier core with a mixture of established veterans that has a better future? I would take the latter.

With the Wizards, Raptors and Pistons looming as playoff threats the next few seasons, I doubt the playoffs would be a guarantee for your roster. The appreciation of young talent comes from what they can become and seldom on what they actually are. Those guys will likely have flashes of brilliance during the season but flashes of anything does not produce the effort needed to build a winning team. Its the main reason why seasoned coaches are reluctant to play young players. I for one, am tired of looking at marginal talents like Channing Frye, Trevor Ariza, Nate Robinson, Gallinari and Wilson Chandler, while listening to Knick fans trying to make an argument that these guys will be perennial all-star caliber players.

Trading away Carmelo is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Yes, we don't have very much flexibility for improving the team but that doesn't mean that we don't have options. I personally think that most of our guys have market value and that is most of the battle when it comes to making a good trade. We just need to be crafty, which Grunwald has proven to be. The one thing he should look to improve upon, however, is to groom young talent in the back-end of the roster like what Briggs has been suggesting. You never know when you might be able to stumble across a Marc Gasol, Nikola Pekovic, Marcin Gortat, etc.

Banking on young talent is tough and you really have to have some kind of skill in evaluating talent. You can trust the people that are paid to do this and make educated guesses. The roster I have suggested will actually have 2 number 4 picks in the last 2 years. Tristan is the #4 pick in 2011 and Waiters is the #4 pick last year. Plus you get the #3 pick this year. These are not marginal talents.

Trading Carmelo right now while his value is high is good business.

Problem contracts are Melo, Tyson, Camby, Kidd and Novak. They have value to get you players to run with Melo?

Trading Melo is not good business because you won't get equal value back, and can't replace him. And honestly there is no reason to discuss it because zero reason he gets traded. It makes no sense from a business standpoint either. Why trade him just to try to work your way back up to where we are now. A 53-win team and 2nd round exit is what we would get out of that team when they fully develop in 3-5 years as best case scenario. No point in that. We are a 2nd round team now with an out in 2 years. Continue to build off of our big pieces in Anthony and Shumpert. They are the reason the future is still bright. We have one of the best scorers in the league at 28 years old and one of the best future perimeter defenders at 23.

you would trade him to get past where you are now.. build a team that is built to contend for a title... that would be the idea...

Why do you think it is that simple? There are 14 other teams trying to do the same thing and are in the lottery. Do these Cavs players suddenly transform into all-stars as soon as we trade for them? Is it that simple to draft a starting PG for a championship team with the 24th pick? My point is that however you rebuild, your rebuilding effort has about a 5% chance of putting together a roster that is as good or better than what we have now. I will stick with this team and look for ways to improve rather than start from scratch. Again, the grass isn't always greener.

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Need to blow this **** up. Unfortunately, Melo is the only desirable asset we have. No one will touch Amare without a sweetener or even Chandler. Shump can be viewed now as damaged goods. JR is JR. Felton is just not that good.

Melo needs a 2nd superstar to play with him to be successful.

I would send do this trade with Cleveland which would pair Melo with Kyrie Irving and they have their Bosh type player in Varejao which would play well with Melo.

Melo for Speights, Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, Alonzo Gee, CLE 1st round pick 3rd overall, both CLE 2nd round picks 31st and 33rd overall.

Why would CLE do this? This will leave CLE with a 1st round pick 19th overall so they still have some yoot coming in. They now will have a big 3 in Melo, Irving and Varejao that will actually work well together. They will also have some cap to sign a very good big in the mold of Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap. This roster will actually put them in the playoffs.

Why do we do this? We get their 1st round pick overall. We get 2 young lottery players in Waiters and Thompson. We get 2 early 2nd round picks. We get yoothier right away.

I would not re-sign anybody from our current roster except for Copeland. Including Pablo. I would let JR walk if he exercises his option.

I would then try to see if Lakers would take Amare and Shump for Gasol. Amare is more MDA's player and maybe they can have a Suns revival in LaLa land. Amare and Nash have the same length in contract. Gasol contract is 1 year shorter than Amare. Also, imagine Shump and the Black Mamba terrorizing the other teams backcourt with defense?

I would also try to get rid Camby. Maybe send him to ORL for TurkeyGlue's expiring contract. Camby and Felton for TurkeyGlue.

Now for the draft. I am not a college basketball guy so I will defer to BRIGGS scouting on this. I really like his reports and he has been more right than wrong in most cases.

For the 1st round pick 3rd overall, I am looking the PG spot or a big center. Looking at BRIGGS Top 10 NBA prospects, Alen Len and CJ McCollum caught my eye. Our need for a PG weighs heavily and If CJ's comparison is Steph Curry then I am picking CJ McCollum.

For our own 24th pick I am looking for a SF. GIANNIS ADETOKUNBO. This kid will be a sleeper.

For the 31st pick, 1st pick in the 2nd round, I will select the BRIGGS favorite. Nate Wolters. He is not projected in the 1st round so he might be available in the 2nd round.

For the 33rd pick, I am looking for a SG with very good shooting skills. Allen Crabbe. NBADraft.net compares him to Hubbert Davis.

Roster would look like this.

C- Chandler/Speights
PF- Gasol/Thompson
SF- Copeland/ADETOKUNBO/Novak/TurkeyGlue
SG- Waiters/Gee/Crabbe
PF- McCollum/Wolters/Kidd

You have 2 young guards in Waiters and McCollum that can shoot. SF will be by committee until Adetokunbo is ready. Chandler and Gasol will protect the paint.

Boom!

EDIT: Fire Woody and sign JVG.

Dude, no. Remember that the grass is always greener. We're no doubt a middling team but that is a better option than being perennially stuck in the lottery. All our contracts expire in 2015, so lets just sit tight, enjoy the show and begin making moves then if they are necessary. That free agent class has Kyrie Irving, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love and Paul George in it.

These moves will put us in play for the 2015 FA class.

I disagree. You attractive stars with other stars (see Wade attracting Bosh and LeBron). None of the guys you mentioned have star potential/or will be stars by 2015. The safer bet is to keep Melo, to at least facilitate a sign and trade for a member of the 2015 group I mentioned.

You have to keep Melo. In 2015 at the latest, give him another star to play with. Melo will be older and hopefully start transitioning into a 1B or #2 option with the addition of a true star player. Grass really isn't always greener. You can't just trade Melo. We saw what happened to OKC with Durant on his own too. Be patient and happy that we are a good, but not great team. Much better than being a lotto team. It is not that easy to rebuild. In 2015 if things are still the same we can sign another star to join Melo, Shumpert, and Felton. It should be a given around here that Melo isn't going anywhere, nor should he, so start focusing on how to improve with him in the plans.

I agree that Melo is top talent...but here is the rub. How do you get capable players to play with him? We are handicapped right now with Amare's contract. Tyson is proving to be a bad match in the frontline with Melo. You need a C that can actually hit an outside shot and rebounds at a high clip. How are you getting this? That is 3 contracts that will stop us from improving. I was actually wearing my Knick Colored glasses when that trio was introduced. I thought it was a great match. Dang...I was wrong. I like Melo's game minus the blackhole part, but if you can't get him the right pieces then he becomes an asset. That roster I suggested would actually get you to the playoffs.

Would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a geriatric group or would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a yoothier core with a mixture of established veterans that has a better future? I would take the latter.

With the Wizards, Raptors and Pistons looming as playoff threats the next few seasons, I doubt the playoffs would be a guarantee for your roster. The appreciation of young talent comes from what they can become and seldom on what they actually are. Those guys will likely have flashes of brilliance during the season but flashes of anything does not produce the effort needed to build a winning team. Its the main reason why seasoned coaches are reluctant to play young players. I for one, am tired of looking at marginal talents like Channing Frye, Trevor Ariza, Nate Robinson, Gallinari and Wilson Chandler, while listening to Knick fans trying to make an argument that these guys will be perennial all-star caliber players.

Trading away Carmelo is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Yes, we don't have very much flexibility for improving the team but that doesn't mean that we don't have options. I personally think that most of our guys have market value and that is most of the battle when it comes to making a good trade. We just need to be crafty, which Grunwald has proven to be. The one thing he should look to improve upon, however, is to groom young talent in the back-end of the roster like what Briggs has been suggesting. You never know when you might be able to stumble across a Marc Gasol, Nikola Pekovic, Marcin Gortat, etc.

Banking on young talent is tough and you really have to have some kind of skill in evaluating talent. You can trust the people that are paid to do this and make educated guesses. The roster I have suggested will actually have 2 number 4 picks in the last 2 years. Tristan is the #4 pick in 2011 and Waiters is the #4 pick last year. Plus you get the #3 pick this year. These are not marginal talents.

Trading Carmelo right now while his value is high is good business.

Problem contracts are Melo, Tyson, Camby, Kidd and Novak. They have value to get you players to run with Melo?

Trading Melo is not good business because you won't get equal value back, and can't replace him. And honestly there is no reason to discuss it because zero reason he gets traded. It makes no sense from a business standpoint either. Why trade him just to try to work your way back up to where we are now. A 53-win team and 2nd round exit is what we would get out of that team when they fully develop in 3-5 years as best case scenario. No point in that. We are a 2nd round team now with an out in 2 years. Continue to build off of our big pieces in Anthony and Shumpert. They are the reason the future is still bright. We have one of the best scorers in the league at 28 years old and one of the best future perimeter defenders at 23.

you would trade him to get past where you are now.. build a team that is built to contend for a title... that would be the idea...

Why do you think it is that simple? There are 14 other teams trying to do the same thing and are in the lottery. Do these Cavs players suddenly transform into all-stars as soon as we trade for them? Is it that simple to draft a starting PG for a championship team with the 24th pick? My point is that however you rebuild, your rebuilding effort has about a 5% chance of putting together a roster that is as good or better than what we have now. I will stick with this team and look for ways to improve rather than start from scratch. Again, the grass isn't always greener.

no, BUT it is called a process, that is how the pacers and grizzlies built what they have now.... the knicks continue to ignore that process which is why we continually have these threads... year, after year, after year...

My point is that however you rebuild, your rebuilding effort has about a 5% chance of putting together a roster that is as good or better than what we have now.

aND HOW did you come up with that?

NYKBocker wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Need to blow this **** up. Unfortunately, Melo is the only desirable asset we have. No one will touch Amare without a sweetener or even Chandler. Shump can be viewed now as damaged goods. JR is JR. Felton is just not that good.

Melo needs a 2nd superstar to play with him to be successful.

I would send do this trade with Cleveland which would pair Melo with Kyrie Irving and they have their Bosh type player in Varejao which would play well with Melo.

Melo for Speights, Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, Alonzo Gee, CLE 1st round pick 3rd overall, both CLE 2nd round picks 31st and 33rd overall.

Why would CLE do this? This will leave CLE with a 1st round pick 19th overall so they still have some yoot coming in. They now will have a big 3 in Melo, Irving and Varejao that will actually work well together. They will also have some cap to sign a very good big in the mold of Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap. This roster will actually put them in the playoffs.

Why do we do this? We get their 1st round pick overall. We get 2 young lottery players in Waiters and Thompson. We get 2 early 2nd round picks. We get yoothier right away.

I would not re-sign anybody from our current roster except for Copeland. Including Pablo. I would let JR walk if he exercises his option.

I would then try to see if Lakers would take Amare and Shump for Gasol. Amare is more MDA's player and maybe they can have a Suns revival in LaLa land. Amare and Nash have the same length in contract. Gasol contract is 1 year shorter than Amare. Also, imagine Shump and the Black Mamba terrorizing the other teams backcourt with defense?

I would also try to get rid Camby. Maybe send him to ORL for TurkeyGlue's expiring contract. Camby and Felton for TurkeyGlue.

Now for the draft. I am not a college basketball guy so I will defer to BRIGGS scouting on this. I really like his reports and he has been more right than wrong in most cases.

For the 1st round pick 3rd overall, I am looking the PG spot or a big center. Looking at BRIGGS Top 10 NBA prospects, Alen Len and CJ McCollum caught my eye. Our need for a PG weighs heavily and If CJ's comparison is Steph Curry then I am picking CJ McCollum.

For our own 24th pick I am looking for a SF. GIANNIS ADETOKUNBO. This kid will be a sleeper.

For the 31st pick, 1st pick in the 2nd round, I will select the BRIGGS favorite. Nate Wolters. He is not projected in the 1st round so he might be available in the 2nd round.

For the 33rd pick, I am looking for a SG with very good shooting skills. Allen Crabbe. NBADraft.net compares him to Hubbert Davis.

Roster would look like this.

C- Chandler/Speights
PF- Gasol/Thompson
SF- Copeland/ADETOKUNBO/Novak/TurkeyGlue
SG- Waiters/Gee/Crabbe
PF- McCollum/Wolters/Kidd

You have 2 young guards in Waiters and McCollum that can shoot. SF will be by committee until Adetokunbo is ready. Chandler and Gasol will protect the paint.

Boom!

EDIT: Fire Woody and sign JVG.

Dude, no. Remember that the grass is always greener. We're no doubt a middling team but that is a better option than being perennially stuck in the lottery. All our contracts expire in 2015, so lets just sit tight, enjoy the show and begin making moves then if they are necessary. That free agent class has Kyrie Irving, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love and Paul George in it.

These moves will put us in play for the 2015 FA class.

I disagree. You attractive stars with other stars (see Wade attracting Bosh and LeBron). None of the guys you mentioned have star potential/or will be stars by 2015. The safer bet is to keep Melo, to at least facilitate a sign and trade for a member of the 2015 group I mentioned.

You have to keep Melo. In 2015 at the latest, give him another star to play with. Melo will be older and hopefully start transitioning into a 1B or #2 option with the addition of a true star player. Grass really isn't always greener. You can't just trade Melo. We saw what happened to OKC with Durant on his own too. Be patient and happy that we are a good, but not great team. Much better than being a lotto team. It is not that easy to rebuild. In 2015 if things are still the same we can sign another star to join Melo, Shumpert, and Felton. It should be a given around here that Melo isn't going anywhere, nor should he, so start focusing on how to improve with him in the plans.

I agree that Melo is top talent...but here is the rub. How do you get capable players to play with him? We are handicapped right now with Amare's contract. Tyson is proving to be a bad match in the frontline with Melo. You need a C that can actually hit an outside shot and rebounds at a high clip. How are you getting this? That is 3 contracts that will stop us from improving. I was actually wearing my Knick Colored glasses when that trio was introduced. I thought it was a great match. Dang...I was wrong. I like Melo's game minus the blackhole part, but if you can't get him the right pieces then he becomes an asset. That roster I suggested would actually get you to the playoffs.

Would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a geriatric group or would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a yoothier core with a mixture of established veterans that has a better future? I would take the latter.

With the Wizards, Raptors and Pistons looming as playoff threats the next few seasons, I doubt the playoffs would be a guarantee for your roster. The appreciation of young talent comes from what they can become and seldom on what they actually are. Those guys will likely have flashes of brilliance during the season but flashes of anything does not produce the effort needed to build a winning team. Its the main reason why seasoned coaches are reluctant to play young players. I for one, am tired of looking at marginal talents like Channing Frye, Trevor Ariza, Nate Robinson, Gallinari and Wilson Chandler, while listening to Knick fans trying to make an argument that these guys will be perennial all-star caliber players.

Trading away Carmelo is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Yes, we don't have very much flexibility for improving the team but that doesn't mean that we don't have options. I personally think that most of our guys have market value and that is most of the battle when it comes to making a good trade. We just need to be crafty, which Grunwald has proven to be. The one thing he should look to improve upon, however, is to groom young talent in the back-end of the roster like what Briggs has been suggesting. You never know when you might be able to stumble across a Marc Gasol, Nikola Pekovic, Marcin Gortat, etc.

Banking on young talent is tough and you really have to have some kind of skill in evaluating talent. You can trust the people that are paid to do this and make educated guesses. The roster I have suggested will actually have 2 number 4 picks in the last 2 years. Tristan is the #4 pick in 2011 and Waiters is the #4 pick last year. Plus you get the #3 pick this year. These are not marginal talents.

Trading Carmelo right now while his value is high is good business.

Problem contracts are Melo, Tyson, Camby, Kidd and Novak. They have value to get you players to run with Melo?

Trading Melo is not good business because you won't get equal value back, and can't replace him. And honestly there is no reason to discuss it because zero reason he gets traded. It makes no sense from a business standpoint either. Why trade him just to try to work your way back up to where we are now. A 53-win team and 2nd round exit is what we would get out of that team when they fully develop in 3-5 years as best case scenario. No point in that. We are a 2nd round team now with an out in 2 years. Continue to build off of our big pieces in Anthony and Shumpert. They are the reason the future is still bright. We have one of the best scorers in the league at 28 years old and one of the best future perimeter defenders at 23.

you would trade him to get past where you are now.. build a team that is built to contend for a title... that would be the idea...

Why do you think it is that simple? There are 14 other teams trying to do the same thing and are in the lottery. Do these Cavs players suddenly transform into all-stars as soon as we trade for them? Is it that simple to draft a starting PG for a championship team with the 24th pick? My point is that however you rebuild, your rebuilding effort has about a 5% chance of putting together a roster that is as good or better than what we have now. I will stick with this team and look for ways to improve rather than start from scratch. Again, the grass isn't always greener.

The scenario I presented will give us the #3 pick overall. You can get a lottery pick PG. CJ McCollum looks like a game changer type of PG in the Steph Curry mold.

These Cavs players? So just because they were with the Cavs you will ignore their body of work? What they were projected prior to their respective drafts?
Tristan Thompson has a chance to be a double double machine. This year he averaged 11.7 ppg and 9.4 rpg.
Dion Waiters averaged 14.7 ppg with only 2 TOpg in his rookie year.

To build a team you need to build from the ground up. Its like building a car. You don't use up all your money on the engine and then nickel and dime the rest of the parts hoping the engine alone will get you to the finish line. What happens when yours shocks, tires or any other part breaks? How about running out of gas? This happened to the Knicks this year. You think it will be better moving forward?

Will it get better? I'm not sure, but i think the odds of it getting better with this team are significantly higher then with a rebuilding team. Just ask the Bobcats, Wizards, Pistons, Kings, Twolves, Bucks, and many more who have been going thru the same rebuilding process for many, many years. It just isn't as simple as trade Melo. I get it Indiana, OKC, and Memphis have done a good job at it, but to get to that point takes a lot of luck beyond the control of talented management. And again, this is all a moot point because Melo is not getting traded. Focus your energy on coming up with ideas to build with him instead. He isn't getting traded, and it makes no sense to trade him and start from scratch in the land of the Wiz, Bobcats, and Pistons.