Stevo718 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Stevo718 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:How many supporting cast have so many players that play hot potato with the ball at the top of the key so many times. Kidd, Prigs, Novak, Tyson and Shump are so dependent bad offensively at times for different reasons. What kind of starting two guard or three can not attack David West off the dribble or hit an open jumper consistently. The Knicks have a rotation player that has not scored in 7 games and passes up so many open shots off the pass.

THere are a lot of problems both ways but if everyone agrees that they both have failed each other there should not be a problem with people blaming the others as well as Melo.

But it is expected that the supporting cast will have scrappy games because they are exactly that.... A supporting cast, when Melo has a crappy game it turns into 4 on 5 because unless Melo is scoring he ain't doing much else. When I used to play ball if I couldn't hit a shot I would hustle on defense and crash the boards, unfortunately Melo thinks he's above doing anything else but scoring.

You say that when he had 9 boards a steal and a few deflections doesn't make sense. He has only had one bad game on the boards when he was in foul trouble. Melo in this series has really been the most consistent rebounder especially defensively.

That's one game, but who else we got besides Chandler that's plays 30 minutes a game and rebounds? It's almost by default that he should have decent rebounding numbers.

Interesting, Game one 11 and game 2 9 but o.k. Also, Chandler is no longer a rebounds so besides Melo there is nobody else.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Stevo718 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Stevo718 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:How many supporting cast have so many players that play hot potato with the ball at the top of the key so many times. Kidd, Prigs, Novak, Tyson and Shump are so dependent bad offensively at times for different reasons. What kind of starting two guard or three can not attack David West off the dribble or hit an open jumper consistently. The Knicks have a rotation player that has not scored in 7 games and passes up so many open shots off the pass.

THere are a lot of problems both ways but if everyone agrees that they both have failed each other there should not be a problem with people blaming the others as well as Melo.

But it is expected that the supporting cast will have scrappy games because they are exactly that.... A supporting cast, when Melo has a crappy game it turns into 4 on 5 because unless Melo is scoring he ain't doing much else. When I used to play ball if I couldn't hit a shot I would hustle on defense and crash the boards, unfortunately Melo thinks he's above doing anything else but scoring.

You say that when he had 9 boards a steal and a few deflections doesn't make sense. He has only had one bad game on the boards when he was in foul trouble. Melo in this series has really been the most consistent rebounder especially defensively.

That's one game, but who else we got besides Chandler that's plays 30 minutes a game and rebounds? It's almost by default that he should have decent rebounding numbers.

Interesting, Game one 11 and game 2 9 but o.k. Also, Chandler is no longer a rebounds so besides Melo there is nobody else.

CrushAlot wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Stevo718 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Stevo718 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:How many supporting cast have so many players that play hot potato with the ball at the top of the key so many times. Kidd, Prigs, Novak, Tyson and Shump are so dependent bad offensively at times for different reasons. What kind of starting two guard or three can not attack David West off the dribble or hit an open jumper consistently. The Knicks have a rotation player that has not scored in 7 games and passes up so many open shots off the pass.

THere are a lot of problems both ways but if everyone agrees that they both have failed each other there should not be a problem with people blaming the others as well as Melo.

But it is expected that the supporting cast will have scrappy games because they are exactly that.... A supporting cast, when Melo has a crappy game it turns into 4 on 5 because unless Melo is scoring he ain't doing much else. When I used to play ball if I couldn't hit a shot I would hustle on defense and crash the boards, unfortunately Melo thinks he's above doing anything else but scoring.

You say that when he had 9 boards a steal and a few deflections doesn't make sense. He has only had one bad game on the boards when he was in foul trouble. Melo in this series has really been the most consistent rebounder especially defensively.

That's one game, but who else we got besides Chandler that's plays 30 minutes a game and rebounds? It's almost by default that he should have decent rebounding numbers.

Interesting, Game one 11 and game 2 9 but o.k. Also, Chandler is no longer a rebounds so besides Melo there is nobody else.

Tyson has outrebounded Melo in one game this series and that was tonights. Melo had 9, Flu had 10.

Yet only had 3 defensive rebounds but he was more active so thats nice and he is playing through an injury I think.

The role players havent done enough, and the scoring title winner can't even shoot 40% from the field.

franco12 wrote:maybe if we didn't have to gut the team when he forced the trade here, there would be assets for management to work with.

and does he have any assists?

You know what ... how about Amare is holding this team up. Never healthy enough to be on the floor, can't trade him, can't use insurance to pay him .... just a complete waste of money that could be used to get 2-3 good players. Tired of acting like this is not an issue.

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Melo has done his part. He has made this team relevant getting them their first playoff win in over a decade last year and leading them to the 2nd round this year. We have had pleasant surprises like Felton, shumpert, and prig and hopefully shumpert can take some notes from George and grow into a bigger role. Melo was on his own once again with the other stars failing him. Regardless to how this series ends, he did his part and deserves more reliable help.

this is where you lose me with this argument..

have you ever thought it may be carmelo failing his supporting cast?

Comments like this make it hard to have a basketball discussion without interjecting personal feelings.

Melo failed to be the "star" we needed him to be and the supporting cast failed to provide support.

Tyson - All we ask Tyson to do is defend and rebound and he's been trash in both areas.

Jr Smith - Haven't provided any offense

Kidd and Camby - Need to retire. They're done

Woodson - completely out coached. Doubling is killing us by giving them the wide open 3 and taking us out of position to rebound. His rotations are terrible.

Only bright spots:
Felton
Shump

So, bottom line - the "Team" failed each other.

knickscity wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:

franco12 wrote:maybe if we didn't have to gut the team when he forced the trade here, there would be assets for management to work with.

and does he have any assists?

You know what ... how about Amare is holding this team up. Never healthy enough to be on the floor, can't trade him, can't use insurance to pay him .... just a complete waste of money that could be used to get 2-3 good players. Tired of acting like this is not an issue.

Really can't even use amare as an excuse.

The team has had incredible success without him, and there is enough talent on this team to win games agasinst a team that rarely scores above 85.

It's not about rather we had success or not without him. The argument was that we don't have any assets, and all the blame is placed on Melo when we have an "allstar" PF who rides the bench each year.

And actually, this is the series we NEED Amare. The pacers are big and we are without Camby and Sheed who were suppose to provide us size in the playoffs for this reason alone.

Forget ball movement and making shots right now, because even with our horrible shooting we are still in the games. The problem is rebounding - the pacers are living off second shot attempts. Doubling the post because we can't straight up defend - giving the pacers wide open shots.

knickscity wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:

franco12 wrote:maybe if we didn't have to gut the team when he forced the trade here, there would be assets for management to work with.

and does he have any assists?

You know what ... how about Amare is holding this team up. Never healthy enough to be on the floor, can't trade him, can't use insurance to pay him .... just a complete waste of money that could be used to get 2-3 good players. Tired of acting like this is not an issue.

Really can't even use amare as an excuse.

The team has had incredible success without him, and there is enough talent on this team to win games agasinst a team that rarely scores above 85.

It's not about rather we had success or not without him. The argument was that we don't have any assets, and all the blame is placed on Melo when we have an "allstar" PF who rides the bench each year.

Any actually, this is the series we NEED Amare. The pacers are big and we are without Camby and Sheed who were suppose to provide us size in the playoffs for this reason alone.

Forget ball movement and making shots right now, because even with our horrible shooting we are still in the games. The problem is rebounding - the pacers are living off second shot attempts. Doubling the post because we can't straight up defend - giving the pacers wide open shots.

Amare take up cap space, melo caused the team to lose assets, so lets get that clear.

The rebounding is an issue, but it isn't just the Pacers big getting rebounds, so the big man argument doesn't fly.

The knicks can't score, that has been the problem, and the main culprit is the scoring champ.

if melo even hits his average we'd be ahead in the series.

but then again maybe he is hitting his average.

37% in his first year....41% in his second year....39% currently.

Career highs in usage which means he takes up the team plays and lowest ast% meaning he does not make the correct pass or any pass for that matter.

Actually we are getting killed on OFFENSIVE rebounds by their bigs. How many times during the game did you hear "The Pacers best offense is off second chance shots?" Hibbert pulled down 6 this game, and 8 last game. This is the reason there was a line up change.

The problem is scoring as well, But I don't see how someone can squarely put the scoring blame on Melo when you have the whole team besides felton, shooting in the low 40s and 30s from the field. Yes Melo takes majority of the blame because it's his specialty, but No way can I put all the blame on him and be honest with myself.

I don't think usage can be used as a good indicator right now for us. Think you more so have to watch the game. If you have such bad shooting on a team, stats are going to be slightly off and deceiving.

Last game, I think we had a total of 11 assists. Does that mean the ball wasn't moving? No, players were missing shots, and a lot of open ones too.

Another thing, last year, everyone outside of Lebron had trouble scoring against the Pacers in the first 3 games. Percentages were very similar to ours as well. Difference, Spoletra made adjustments. Woodson need to go watch film and get it figured out.

knickscity wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:

franco12 wrote:maybe if we didn't have to gut the team when he forced the trade here, there would be assets for management to work with.

and does he have any assists?

You know what ... how about Amare is holding this team up. Never healthy enough to be on the floor, can't trade him, can't use insurance to pay him .... just a complete waste of money that could be used to get 2-3 good players. Tired of acting like this is not an issue.

Really can't even use amare as an excuse.

The team has had incredible success without him, and there is enough talent on this team to win games agasinst a team that rarely scores above 85.

It's not about rather we had success or not without him. The argument was that we don't have any assets, and all the blame is placed on Melo when we have an "allstar" PF who rides the bench each year.

Any actually, this is the series we NEED Amare. The pacers are big and we are without Camby and Sheed who were suppose to provide us size in the playoffs for this reason alone.

Forget ball movement and making shots right now, because even with our horrible shooting we are still in the games. The problem is rebounding - the pacers are living off second shot attempts. Doubling the post because we can't straight up defend - giving the pacers wide open shots.

Amare take up cap space, melo caused the team to lose assets, so lets get that clear.

The rebounding is an issue, but it isn't just the Pacers big getting rebounds, so the big man argument doesn't fly.

The knicks can't score, that has been the problem, and the main culprit is the scoring champ.

if melo even hits his average we'd be ahead in the series.

but then again maybe he is hitting his average.

37% in his first year....41% in his second year....39% currently.

Career highs in usage which means he takes up the team plays and lowest ast% meaning he does not make the correct pass or any pass for that matter.

Actually we are getting killed on OFFENSIVE rebounds by their bigs. How many times during the game did you hear "The Pacers best offense is off second chance shots?" Hibbert pulled down 6 this game, and 8 last game. This is the reason there was a line up change.

The problem is scoring as well, But I don't see how someone can squarely put the scoring blame on Melo when you have the whole team besides felton, shooting in the low 40s and 30s from the field. Yes Melo takes majority of the blame because it's his specialty, but No way can I put all the blame on him and be honest with myself.

I don't think usage can be used as a good indicator right now for us. Think you more so have to watch the game. If you have such bad shooting on a team, stats are going to be slightly off and deceiving.

Last game, I think we had a total of 11 assists. Does that mean the ball wasn't moving? No, players were missing shots, and a lot of open ones too.

Another thing, last year, everyone outside of Lebron had trouble scoring against the Pacers in the first 3 games. Percentages were very similar to ours as well. Difference, Spoletra made adjustments. Woodson need to go watch film and get it figured out.

Melo isnt shooting as well as the rest of his starters.

He's below 40%, they aren't, yet takes the most shots.

So therefore before blaming role players Melo get the bulk of the blame.

Hersports85 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Melo has done his part. He has made this team relevant getting them their first playoff win in over a decade last year and leading them to the 2nd round this year. We have had pleasant surprises like Felton, shumpert, and prig and hopefully shumpert can take some notes from George and grow into a bigger role. Melo was on his own once again with the other stars failing him. Regardless to how this series ends, he did his part and deserves more reliable help.

this is where you lose me with this argument..

have you ever thought it may be carmelo failing his supporting cast?

Exactly. How can a supporting cast play well when you have a guy taking 25 shots and averaging 1 assist a game? Has a supporting cast *ever* looked good under that kind of scenario? It's not like they can't hit a shot. His teammates have been shooting in the mid 40s from the field this post-season.

You do realize that the last 3 games Melo has been making the right pass ... And you also realize that in order to get an assist that Player B has to make a shot from Player A.

But with that said, I expect for him to do more on the defensive end and rebounding along with motivating the team.