Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

playa2 wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

playa2 wrote: Grown Insecure men will always feel uncomfortable in a locker room taking showers with gay men because men have big ego's insecurities thinking another man is checking them out.

Fixed that for you.

Being tolerable isn't being secure it just means you are tolerable to be in the shower with a grown ase man who is attracted to other men. Keep that to your self if it's normal for you

Nobody should have to keep their sexuality secret. And bigotry like yours is exactly why this is so important.

Yes, and if a guy feels uncomfortable in locker room, maybe that is his problem, not the gay person's problem. Perhaps he can shower after everyone has left the locker room if he's that terrified.

I never remember having to run around a locker room telling people about what I desire sexually. Why should anyone feel convicted of doing so? I can understand why a gay man would feel uncomfortable in a locker room--but there is nothing he can do about it. An overwhelming majority of men are straight and if you are 1 out of 20--you're just going to have to find ways to deal with it. One smart way is don't ask--don't tell. There is no absolute reason a person has to speak about sexuality. You go in--get dressed play hard--take a shower and go home. And to blindly believe that straight guys have to accept another man who is gay is also naive--they likely won't and they have the RIGHT to be uncomfortable with a gay man in the locker room. There is NOTHING wrong with being a gay person--but don't put that on anyone else's shoulders because they next guy has the RIGHT to be uncomfortable dressing and playing with a gay person.

No double standard though. You shouldn't allow anyone to discuss their heterosexual desires in the locker-room then.
Or you could outlaw all discussions of minority practices (e.g., no mention of religions other than Christianity)

I wouldn't endorse either of those options though.

Honest question Bonn. If you *knew* a guy was gay and you were playing basketball with him(or any contact sport) where you were flesh to flesh sweaty--how would you feel. Im being honest when I would say I would not like it--I might not even play. If that makes me a crappy person that so be it. I would treat the person with dignity and respect off the court. On it--I dont feel comfortable going body to body with gay man--thats just me. But if I did not know the person was gay and he was--then play on. I really think dont ask dont tell is the correct position for younger gay men who are involved in sports where there is body to body contact. While understanding the gay person has the right to play--the straight man has the right to say I do not want to play with him. Jason Collin is getting lauded for this at the end of his career--does he make 25mm if he makes this announcement at 22? No way. He did not ask or tell and enjoyed a fine life--my bet.

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

playa2 wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

playa2 wrote: Grown Insecure men will always feel uncomfortable in a locker room taking showers with gay men because men have big ego's insecurities thinking another man is checking them out.

Fixed that for you.

Being tolerable isn't being secure it just means you are tolerable to be in the shower with a grown ase man who is attracted to other men. Keep that to your self if it's normal for you

Nobody should have to keep their sexuality secret. And bigotry like yours is exactly why this is so important.

Yes, and if a guy feels uncomfortable in locker room, maybe that is his problem, not the gay person's problem. Perhaps he can shower after everyone has left the locker room if he's that terrified.

I never remember having to run around a locker room telling people about what I desire sexually. Why should anyone feel convicted of doing so? I can understand why a gay man would feel uncomfortable in a locker room--but there is nothing he can do about it. An overwhelming majority of men are straight and if you are 1 out of 20--you're just going to have to find ways to deal with it. One smart way is don't ask--don't tell. There is no absolute reason a person has to speak about sexuality. You go in--get dressed play hard--take a shower and go home. And to blindly believe that straight guys have to accept another man who is gay is also naive--they likely won't and they have the RIGHT to be uncomfortable with a gay man in the locker room. There is NOTHING wrong with being a gay person--but don't put that on anyone else's shoulders because they next guy has the RIGHT to be uncomfortable dressing and playing with a gay person.

Listening to some of this warped logic here, makes ya think they are trying to make a straight man feel like something is wrong with him. Thank Hollywood for that wanting men to be more feminine!

Whether he's gay or not gay, it obviously didn't affect his basketball playing skills so why even bother to tell the world?

What am I missing here?

A homosexual agenda seems to be the issue here.

He's not "courageous" at age 34, he's at the end of his 12 yr career.

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:gayness can be more broadly defined as "having sex solely for pleasure", and in this sense everyone that has sex for pleasure, and without consideration for either a spiritual or reproductive element, is gay.

I'm reminded of the Flinstones here. No one uses the term like that anymore.

this is a matter of fashion in the language, you are ignoring the idea presented

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

playa2 wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

playa2 wrote: Grown Insecure men will always feel uncomfortable in a locker room taking showers with gay men because men have big ego's insecurities thinking another man is checking them out.

Fixed that for you.

Being tolerable isn't being secure it just means you are tolerable to be in the shower with a grown ase man who is attracted to other men. Keep that to your self if it's normal for you

Nobody should have to keep their sexuality secret. And bigotry like yours is exactly why this is so important.

Yes, and if a guy feels uncomfortable in locker room, maybe that is his problem, not the gay person's problem. Perhaps he can shower after everyone has left the locker room if he's that terrified.

I never remember having to run around a locker room telling people about what I desire sexually. Why should anyone feel convicted of doing so? I can understand why a gay man would feel uncomfortable in a locker room--but there is nothing he can do about it. An overwhelming majority of men are straight and if you are 1 out of 20--you're just going to have to find ways to deal with it. One smart way is don't ask--don't tell. There is no absolute reason a person has to speak about sexuality. You go in--get dressed play hard--take a shower and go home. And to blindly believe that straight guys have to accept another man who is gay is also naive--they likely won't and they have the RIGHT to be uncomfortable with a gay man in the locker room. There is NOTHING wrong with being a gay person--but don't put that on anyone else's shoulders because they next guy has the RIGHT to be uncomfortable dressing and playing with a gay person.

No double standard though. You shouldn't allow anyone to discuss their heterosexual desires in the locker-room then.
Or you could outlaw all discussions of minority practices (e.g., no mention of religions other than Christianity)

I wouldn't endorse either of those options though.

Honest question Bonn. If you *knew* a guy was gay and you were playing basketball with him(or any contact sport) where you were flesh to flesh sweaty--how would you feel. Im being honest when I would say I would not like it--I might not even play. If that makes me a crappy person that so be it. I would treat the person with dignity and respect off the court. On it--I dont feel comfortable going body to body with gay man--thats just me. But if I did not know the person was gay and he was--then play on. I really think dont ask dont tell is the correct position for younger gay men who are involved in sports where there is body to body contact. While understanding the gay person has the right to play--the straight man has the right to say I do not want to play with him. Jason Collin is getting lauded for this at the end of his career--does he make 25mm if he makes this announcement at 22? No way. He did not ask or tell and enjoyed a fine life--my bet.

It's interesting that the rumors from a year or so ago that a gay player from NJ was thinking of coming out turned out to be true. (Collins did play for NJ for years, right?)

As for Clyde being gay . . . ahem, that seems unlikely. Clyde is about the only straight guy who can wear a pink sweater and it makes him even more of a babe magnet. Also, ahem, just look at Clyde back in the day: http://evgrieve.com/2010/10/dupin-and-hoopin.html. Who wouldn't want to sleep with him? He's the Doctor Who of sexual orientation--any time, any place, any orientation!

blkexec wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

blkexec wrote:Actually I never been faced with such an issue. When it comes down to it, I would still guard him gay or not. But my issue is why does his sexual preference matter during a basketball game. The only reason I can think of is to cause a distraction.

If its a chick with a nice body, yes I am easy.

If it's a dude thats gay, but I don't know it, I have no problems.

If it's a dude trying to make a scene that hes gay, either by what he's wearing or how he's acting, yes I have a problem with that.

But maybe I'm alone with this, so again excuse my ignorance.

Hypothetically, what about the gay dude who you only know is gay because of a casual mention, and not because of any stereotypical behavior.

He was your cover, is one of the best players on the court and is a good sportsman, and afterwards while talking about food/drinks after he says something like: "Raincheck, I have to pick up my husband from the train station, but good game, see you next week?"

Would you see him next week?

I don't care if he was MJ. He will be isolated from the majority. He would get pickef on so much, he would stop playing eventually to avoid the drama.

Busting on one another is one thing... But that's a damn shame that if his sexual preference doesn't matter as you say he would be basically bullied away for a casual comment like that.

Andrew wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

playa2 wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

playa2 wrote: Grown Insecure men will always feel uncomfortable in a locker room taking showers with gay men because men have big ego's insecurities thinking another man is checking them out.

Fixed that for you.

Being tolerable isn't being secure it just means you are tolerable to be in the shower with a grown ase man who is attracted to other men. Keep that to your self if it's normal for you

Nobody should have to keep their sexuality secret. And bigotry like yours is exactly why this is so important.

Yes, and if a guy feels uncomfortable in locker room, maybe that is his problem, not the gay person's problem. Perhaps he can shower after everyone has left the locker room if he's that terrified.

I never remember having to run around a locker room telling people about what I desire sexually. Why should anyone feel convicted of doing so? I can understand why a gay man would feel uncomfortable in a locker room--but there is nothing he can do about it. An overwhelming majority of men are straight and if you are 1 out of 20--you're just going to have to find ways to deal with it. One smart way is don't ask--don't tell. There is no absolute reason a person has to speak about sexuality. You go in--get dressed play hard--take a shower and go home. And to blindly believe that straight guys have to accept another man who is gay is also naive--they likely won't and they have the RIGHT to be uncomfortable with a gay man in the locker room. There is NOTHING wrong with being a gay person--but don't put that on anyone else's shoulders because they next guy has the RIGHT to be uncomfortable dressing and playing with a gay person.

No double standard though. You shouldn't allow anyone to discuss their heterosexual desires in the locker-room then.
Or you could outlaw all discussions of minority practices (e.g., no mention of religions other than Christianity)

I wouldn't endorse either of those options though.

Honest question Bonn. If you *knew* a guy was gay and you were playing basketball with him(or any contact sport) where you were flesh to flesh sweaty--how would you feel. Im being honest when I would say I would not like it--I might not even play. If that makes me a crappy person that so be it. I would treat the person with dignity and respect off the court. On it--I dont feel comfortable going body to body with gay man--thats just me. But if I did not know the person was gay and he was--then play on. I really think dont ask dont tell is the correct position for younger gay men who are involved in sports where there is body to body contact. While understanding the gay person has the right to play--the straight man has the right to say I do not want to play with him. Jason Collin is getting lauded for this at the end of his career--does he make 25mm if he makes this announcement at 22? No way. He did not ask or tell and enjoyed a fine life--my bet.

Honest question for you Briggs. What makes you not want to play against a gay person? What are you afraid of?

I wouldnt want a gay person on me like that--thats MY right and preference--has nothing to do with being afraid. If Im an ignorant bad guy because I dont want a sweaty gay man on me--then Im a bad person.

Bonn1997 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:gayness can be more broadly defined as "having sex solely for pleasure", and in this sense everyone that has sex for pleasure, and without consideration for either a spiritual or reproductive element, is gay.

I'm reminded of the Flinstones here. No one uses the term like that anymore.

this is a matter of fashion in the language, you are ignoring the idea presented

I don't disagree with the idea presented. We artificially label people into groups like "gay" or "heterosexual." Most women and a significant minority of men have homosexual desires, and it would probably be more common if it wasn't socially discouraged. Virtually all bonobos, who (along with chimpanzees) are our closest genetic relatives, are bisexual. It's harder to find data on this behavior in chimps.

I know gayness can also be defined as happiness or levity, and has become accepted slang for homosexuality, particularly male homosexuality. I never heard it used as a synonym for any sex for pleasure though, sounds like you are getting interpretive with your semantics. Citation please.

Former NBA player John Amaechi said he has been in touch with soccer players, including in the English Premier League, who are gay but are not ready to go public.

"Many of them are out already," he said. "They are out in the way that most people are out in that people they love and that people who care about them know that they are gay. But random strangers don't know that they are gay."

Fashanu remains the only top-level British soccer player to have come out publicly, acknowledging he was gay in 1990. The former Nottingham Forest and Norwich City striker was found hanged in a London garage at age 37.

According to an inquest, Fashanu left a note saying, because he was gay, he feared he wouldn't get a fair trial in the United States on sexual assault charges. Maryland police were seeking him on charges that he sexually assaulted a 17-year-old boy after a party at his apartment.

Robbie Rogers, a former U.S. national team player who played for Leeds in England's second-tier division last season, went public in February that he was gay, saying on his personal website that "I realized I could only truly enjoy my life once I was honest." He also said he was retiring from the sport.

Anti-gay sentiment in soccer has been expressed in different ways.

Last year, Italy forward Antonio Cassano said he hoped there were no homosexual players on the national team and used a derogatory word to describe gays. Fans of two-time defending Russian champion Zenit St. Petersburg signed a petition saying gay players were "unworthy of our great city." Marcello Lippi, Italy's World Cup winning manager, caused a stir in 2009 when he said he had never come across a gay player and would advise gay players to stay in the closet.

"The NBA is light years ahead of football, there is no doubt about that," Amaechi said.

In the U.S., Kopay, who played for five NFL teams over 10 years, was the first pro athlete to acknowledge his homosexuality publicly when he came out in 1977 after retiring, and wrote a book about it.

Andrew wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Andrew wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

playa2 wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

playa2 wrote: Grown Insecure men will always feel uncomfortable in a locker room taking showers with gay men because men have big ego's insecurities thinking another man is checking them out.

Fixed that for you.

Being tolerable isn't being secure it just means you are tolerable to be in the shower with a grown ase man who is attracted to other men. Keep that to your self if it's normal for you

Nobody should have to keep their sexuality secret. And bigotry like yours is exactly why this is so important.

Yes, and if a guy feels uncomfortable in locker room, maybe that is his problem, not the gay person's problem. Perhaps he can shower after everyone has left the locker room if he's that terrified.

I never remember having to run around a locker room telling people about what I desire sexually. Why should anyone feel convicted of doing so? I can understand why a gay man would feel uncomfortable in a locker room--but there is nothing he can do about it. An overwhelming majority of men are straight and if you are 1 out of 20--you're just going to have to find ways to deal with it. One smart way is don't ask--don't tell. There is no absolute reason a person has to speak about sexuality. You go in--get dressed play hard--take a shower and go home. And to blindly believe that straight guys have to accept another man who is gay is also naive--they likely won't and they have the RIGHT to be uncomfortable with a gay man in the locker room. There is NOTHING wrong with being a gay person--but don't put that on anyone else's shoulders because they next guy has the RIGHT to be uncomfortable dressing and playing with a gay person.

No double standard though. You shouldn't allow anyone to discuss their heterosexual desires in the locker-room then.
Or you could outlaw all discussions of minority practices (e.g., no mention of religions other than Christianity)

I wouldn't endorse either of those options though.

Honest question Bonn. If you *knew* a guy was gay and you were playing basketball with him(or any contact sport) where you were flesh to flesh sweaty--how would you feel. Im being honest when I would say I would not like it--I might not even play. If that makes me a crappy person that so be it. I would treat the person with dignity and respect off the court. On it--I dont feel comfortable going body to body with gay man--thats just me. But if I did not know the person was gay and he was--then play on. I really think dont ask dont tell is the correct position for younger gay men who are involved in sports where there is body to body contact. While understanding the gay person has the right to play--the straight man has the right to say I do not want to play with him. Jason Collin is getting lauded for this at the end of his career--does he make 25mm if he makes this announcement at 22? No way. He did not ask or tell and enjoyed a fine life--my bet.

Honest question for you Briggs. What makes you not want to play against a gay person? What are you afraid of?

I wouldnt want a gay person on me like that--thats MY right and preference--has nothing to do with being afraid. If Im an ignorant bad guy because I dont want a sweaty gay man on me--then Im a bad person.

Sure its your preference....I was looking for the "why"? There must be a why. Why does it make you uncomfortable? Have you thought deeply about that?

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Andrew wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Andrew wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

playa2 wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

playa2 wrote: Grown Insecure men will always feel uncomfortable in a locker room taking showers with gay men because men have big ego's insecurities thinking another man is checking them out.

Fixed that for you.

Being tolerable isn't being secure it just means you are tolerable to be in the shower with a grown ase man who is attracted to other men. Keep that to your self if it's normal for you

Nobody should have to keep their sexuality secret. And bigotry like yours is exactly why this is so important.

Yes, and if a guy feels uncomfortable in locker room, maybe that is his problem, not the gay person's problem. Perhaps he can shower after everyone has left the locker room if he's that terrified.

I never remember having to run around a locker room telling people about what I desire sexually. Why should anyone feel convicted of doing so? I can understand why a gay man would feel uncomfortable in a locker room--but there is nothing he can do about it. An overwhelming majority of men are straight and if you are 1 out of 20--you're just going to have to find ways to deal with it. One smart way is don't ask--don't tell. There is no absolute reason a person has to speak about sexuality. You go in--get dressed play hard--take a shower and go home. And to blindly believe that straight guys have to accept another man who is gay is also naive--they likely won't and they have the RIGHT to be uncomfortable with a gay man in the locker room. There is NOTHING wrong with being a gay person--but don't put that on anyone else's shoulders because they next guy has the RIGHT to be uncomfortable dressing and playing with a gay person.

No double standard though. You shouldn't allow anyone to discuss their heterosexual desires in the locker-room then.
Or you could outlaw all discussions of minority practices (e.g., no mention of religions other than Christianity)

I wouldn't endorse either of those options though.

Honest question Bonn. If you *knew* a guy was gay and you were playing basketball with him(or any contact sport) where you were flesh to flesh sweaty--how would you feel. Im being honest when I would say I would not like it--I might not even play. If that makes me a crappy person that so be it. I would treat the person with dignity and respect off the court. On it--I dont feel comfortable going body to body with gay man--thats just me. But if I did not know the person was gay and he was--then play on. I really think dont ask dont tell is the correct position for younger gay men who are involved in sports where there is body to body contact. While understanding the gay person has the right to play--the straight man has the right to say I do not want to play with him. Jason Collin is getting lauded for this at the end of his career--does he make 25mm if he makes this announcement at 22? No way. He did not ask or tell and enjoyed a fine life--my bet.

Honest question for you Briggs. What makes you not want to play against a gay person? What are you afraid of?

I wouldnt want a gay person on me like that--thats MY right and preference--has nothing to do with being afraid. If Im an ignorant bad guy because I dont want a sweaty gay man on me--then Im a bad person.

Sure its your preference....I was looking for the "why"? There must be a why. Why does it make you uncomfortable? Have you thought deeply about that?

perhaps he thinks the man will automatically be attracted to him and getting sexual thrills out of the contact

I always find this line of thinking humorous, as the homophobe usually believes all gay men lust after him