3G4G wrote:

nixluva wrote:

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:For the past two games, Bryant had refused to sit a minute.

let's now take back the anti-d'antoni words here

No one is saying its all his fault but if D'Antoni lets Kobe play until the wheels come off, he has to take his share of the blame for letting him have his way. Nothing unreasonable about any coach taking responsibility for the decisions he makes.

both player and coach want to win, want to make the playoffs. bryant knows his own body and d'antoni is not a mindreader.

you have to feel badly for bryant but there's no need to drag in d'antoni for guilt by association.

lots of knick posters enjoy making d'antoni a whipping boy. sheesh

Obviously he doesn't, otherwise his season wouldn't be over right now. It's funny how posters simply overlook facts and actual happenings. Kobe's will to win often times supersedes logic and rationale, someone within the organization has to be his better conscience no one closer than the coach. I'll put some blame on the organization too because in the past when Kobe supposedly as you said knew his body this happened

"This is probably the best I've played in a while," Bryant said after practice Monday. "I've had years the last few years where I've felt pretty good but we kept my minutes down so the numbers didn't look the same, but this year I feel pretty good."

Along with Bryant's improved scoring and efficiency, he's playing 38.7 minutes per game, slightly up from the 38.5 minutes he played last season under Mike Brown and significantly higher than the 33.9 minutes per game he logged in his final season under Phil Jackson.

"I think it's just the minutes," Bryant said. "I'm playing more. And I'm also extremely healthy. I had a whole summer to really be healthy, to be in shape, to get stronger and I think that has a lot to do with it. Diet has a lot to do with it, too. Watching what I eat."

Bryant said he was playing on "one leg" in Jackson's farewell season in 2010-11 and the Hall of Fame coach tried to manage Bryant's health by cutting his minutes, something that led critics to declare Bryant's career was on the decline.

"I played OK considering I was on one leg, but the minutes were also down too so the numbers were down," Bryant said. "It was one of the things that kind of frustrated me. Everybody said I was on the decline but the reality is my minutes were just fewer. That's something I took to heart and wanted to come back this season improved."

Phil didn't play that BS he sat Kobe's arse down.....that's what good coaches do

CHECK MATE!!!!

GOD BLESS

AND

GOOD NIGHT

Phil is in a much stronger position than most other coaches who haven't won a title. Aside from Pop, Doc and Phil, most coaches tend to push the envelope with players in order to get wins. You also have to realize that Kobe is gonna listen to Phil more readily due to his respect for him, but even Phil couldn't completely control Kobe over the years. Kobe was being allowed to make the call himself since he KNOWS his body and felt he was in shape enough to take the added strain. Now it's easy to say he was wrong cuz he torn his Achilles, but had he made it the last couple of minutes you wouldn't be able to come on here talking tough. It would've ended up being just another heroic performance by Kobe.

How you can talk so much trash when our own coach has done the same thing this season is beyond me. You're acting like this isn't something that many NBA coaches tend to do when they feel the pressure to win. Guys that have won titles don't have that same pressure on them.

Kobe "knows his pain tolerance" but he does not know his body otherwise he wouldn't have ruptured his achilles. Kobe showed signs in the game of completely breaking down and he's sat out games already this season due to injury, playing COACHBE. To know your body would mean, you know when too much stress is being placed upon it and adjust he didn't yesterday he pushed it to it's limit and now he suffers along with everyone else in Laker nation. Here's what we know, yesterday's situation could have been avoided.

Another thing please stop throwing Woody under the bus anytime it appears D'Antoni is behind the 8 ball. For the record, I think Woody is a parody of himself and the success Atlanta had this yr without him there proves such to me.

Everything else you wrote is a bunch of excuses and jibber jabber

smackeddog wrote:I get where you're coming from Nixluva, but for me if Woody started playing Melo 48 mins per game in back to backs, 47 min, 45 mins, 48 mins, 45mins, then Melo got a major injury, who honestly would be surprised? Could you imagine the boards reaction. Melo may have wanted to play all those mins, but the buck stops with the coach- if your strategy to win is to play your best player 48mins every night then really you need to come up with a better strategy. The fact kobe is 34, just makes the whole situation ridiculous. I get the pressure D'Antoni was under, and his lack of authority over his team, but having a 34 year old player play 48mins damn near every night AND in back to backs is just crazy.

YOU GET IT AND I'M HAPPY FOR YOU SMACK!!!!!

3G4G wrote:

nixluva wrote:

3G4G wrote:

nixluva wrote:

3G4G wrote:

nixluva wrote:Watching the Lakers I think it was clear that MDA was not in a strong enough position to tell Kobe to do anything. He finally got Kobe to believe in the idea of making his teammates better, which he did for a good stretch but then Kobe reverts to his usual "I can do it all by myself" and there's not much a coach can do about that. Even Phil couldn't completely control Kobe, tho some people think he's always been able to. Still Phil would have more clout than D'Antoni.

MDA is in a can't win situation in LA. He's not loved by the fans and he can't do whatever he wants when it comes to Kobe or D12. Heck when he sat Pau he got killed. He's just not in a strong enough position to do exactly what he wants to do. The pressure to win is intense. After Brown's firing no coach would be unless it was Phil. I kept thinking MDA needs to sit Kobe even it if just for a few minutes!!! But it never happened. Just so we're clear MANY coaches do this. Woody rode some of his guys into the ground. Woody is lucky that Melo didn't seriously injure himself. Thibs had Rose playing too long. It's not just an MDA thing. Coaches are under pressure to win and that leads to playing guys too much. The only time you see them not do it is after they've won and they have the clout to do things differently.

Actually Thibs didn't really run Rose into the ground, he literally had no backup guy to Rose.... as they had many players injured his MVP yr then the next season Rose averaged 35.3min/gm that's not high for star players you know this right? Matter of fact it was the lowest of his career and Rose has never played 38min/gm in a season for his career.

Another sorry attempt by you, now that you have no leg to stand on as the most stubborn D'Antoni supporter, he playing a large role in ending Kobe's season and possibly his career.

Phil/Doc/Pop/Spo/Karl you know the ELITE coaches rest and/or sit their players when they sense too much is going on physically with their guys. Yes Thibs left Rose in too long during 1 playoff game, but Rose's injury has more to do with they way he plays the game, than Thibs over working him.

I'm not excusing MDA as much as saying he's in a weak position in LA. Not only can't he win against D12 or Kobe, but the pressure to make the playoffs is unreal. He has indeed made the mistake of playing guys to long as have other coaches. The problem is that only a few coaches have the LUXURY of resting players or in the Lakers case the clout to pull a guy that doesn't want to come out and is the franchise. Kobe wanted to stay in and was effective even after the 1st couple of times he went down with some knee issues. He was making a hard drive when he tore his Achilles. Its easy to say now that he should've come out, but he had just hit 2 big 3's and the game wasn't secure. It's a mistake a LOT of coaches would make. As I said Woody has had his troubles deciding when to pull guys like when Melo wanted out or overusing Kidd etc. This isn't about my "bias" towards MDA and I laid out why it's a bigger issue than one coach.

He pursued and accepted the job (knowing the situation and all that comes with it) at guaranteed yrs and millions of dollars, therefore you should be the last person trying to apologize for his situation, not in case he has you on his payroll. If D'Antoni is as good as any other coach and his yrs in Phx are pure gold then yes he has the clout based on track record to tell Kobe I have to sit you 5min. You just train wrecked right before our eyes 2 times and walked away from it. I want to see you continue walking, have a seat next to me... homie.

Naahhhh this was a discussion in NBA circles prior to him tearing up his ankles. Of course you may have be immersed in your D'Antoni catalogs making you oblivious to the water cooler talk but when he played 48 min against Portland on Wednesday even Magic/Simmons/Jalen made this topic front and center, then on TNT they took it even a step further and made it worldwide....2 days later D'Antoni with sugar babies loaded up in his ears ignores the warnings and BOOM goes Kobe.

Nix you got anything else?

You need to learn how to read!!! No one is saying MDA has no blame. Simply that it's not as easy a call as you're making it out to be. Except for a few coaches you can name it's hard to find a coach that hasn't pushed the envelope or a player that went out there knowing he wasn't really in condition to play. What if Jordan had collapsed on the court in that game he played with serious Stomach flu symptoms? Since he made it thru the game even tho totally exhausted, no one gets to criticize Phil for that, but it could EASILY have happened. I too thought he should've rested Kobe, but I understand the pressures that made him let Kobe keep playing. It's not as simple as you're trying to make it seem. Someone mentioned RG3 and that was a worse case since he actually HAD AN INJURED KNEE with a brace on it! It's just another example of the mentality of players and coaches in Pro Sports.

Dude Kobe has been playing injured for a while and he took 2 major spills in the game where he could barely walk. Now get this.... because he never came out they never examined him to the extent to see how physically worn he was. As in possibly re-taping his ankles or giving him some physical treatments before allowing him to continue playing. So actually Kobe was playing in a game much like RG3, at least RG3 was looked at during the game after his first instance of injury

You have nothing like I thought... sorry Nix move on after watching this...everyone else feel free to watch and tell me why there wasn't reason to pull him and in particular pay attention to the Lakers announcers on his first spill

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:For the past two games, Bryant had refused to sit a minute.

let's now take back the anti-d'antoni words here

No one is saying its all his fault but if D'Antoni lets Kobe play until the wheels come off, he has to take his share of the blame for letting him have his way. Nothing unreasonable about any coach taking responsibility for the decisions he makes.

both player and coach want to win, want to make the playoffs. bryant knows his own body and d'antoni is not a mindreader.

you have to feel badly for bryant but there's no need to drag in d'antoni for guilt by association.

lots of knick posters enjoy making d'antoni a whipping boy. sheesh

Whipping boy? For saying that D'Antoni shares part of the blame as head coach for letting Kobe play all those minutes? Wow. It wasn't enough that people spent 4 years making excuses for him in NY. Always someone else's fault with D'Antoni.

four years? no. two years of roster flush don't count as making excuses for him, come on now. he waited for two years just to have a fresh start.

that fresh start lasted one half a season before the building plan for his style of ball was scrapped. then he left midway through the following season.

nobody is arguing that he does not have limitations as a coach, either. but to say he had 4 years upon which he should be judged is simply not fair.

4 seasons? no way.

I disagree about the first two years not counting. Could anyone have done a worse job in D'Antoni's second year? Just reflect on the McGrady trade and ask yourself if he did a good job. Has Donnie Walsh traveled with a team he has been gm for to evaluate the players or coaching staff before or since the Texas road trip when Toney Douglas suddenly started getting minutes over Duhon and Sergio? Also, it is pretty hard to create the drama that was going on with D'Antoni. Some of the guys had questionable character or maturity but the number and frequency of guys complaining about communication and other issues was pretty high. All he had to do was roll out the balls and set the line ups but he didn't have the strength to communicate or teach at all. Just like Wojo said yesterday," D'Antoni didn't have the strength to do the right thing and take Kobe out." When you resign and your team gets the same number of wins you got to with them in 23 games that it took you 42 games to get to you were not doing a good job or managing things correctly.

martin wrote:http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/14/kobes-trainer-says-heavy-minutes-had-nothing-to-do-with-his-injury/

“It had nothing to do with the minutes he had been playing or anything of that sort,” Grover said in a phone interview with this newspaper. “A torn Achilles tendon is a very freaky injury. It’s just one of those things that just happened.”

Grover conceded the possibility that Bryant’s torn Achilles tendon could stem from the bone spurs in his left foot that he has had “for a while.” But Grover said it’s common for anyone to suffer the injury through every-day movements, such as climbing out of bed or stepping off a sidewalk.

“Everybody is trying to look at somebody to blame for it whether it be the coaching staff, Kobe, me or whatever it is. But everyone who is involved with him has to take responsibility in this. But it’s more of a freakish injury than anything else.”

So since Grover said

"everyone who is involved with him has to take responsibility"

Grover mentioned "Bone Spurs" well if an achilles injury can occur possibly from bone spurs, then the more Kobe plays, the better chance he has at aggravating any part of his body near the region of spurs. I think Deron was playing with some in his ankle this year.....guess what the Nets sat him some games so he could receive a series of shots in his ankle. Deron has never looked better. Like I mentioned in a previous post.....Kobe should have been taken out if for nothing else to administer some type of quick therapy to his ankle, even if all that Vitti did was provide a 5-10min massage and a total retape job.

IronWillGiroud wrote:look it's called the achilles for a reason,

it's the weak point,

haha - I don't think that is what that means (that its the weak point), it happened to have been Achilles's weak point.

MDA actually got him to play unselfish basketball which no other coach was able to do.

3G4G wrote:

martin wrote:http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/14/kobes-trainer-says-heavy-minutes-had-nothing-to-do-with-his-injury/

“It had nothing to do with the minutes he had been playing or anything of that sort,” Grover said in a phone interview with this newspaper. “A torn Achilles tendon is a very freaky injury. It’s just one of those things that just happened.”

Grover conceded the possibility that Bryant’s torn Achilles tendon could stem from the bone spurs in his left foot that he has had “for a while.” But Grover said it’s common for anyone to suffer the injury through every-day movements, such as climbing out of bed or stepping off a sidewalk.

“Everybody is trying to look at somebody to blame for it whether it be the coaching staff, Kobe, me or whatever it is. But everyone who is involved with him has to take responsibility in this. But it’s more of a freakish injury than anything else.”

So since Grover said

"everyone who is involved with him has to take responsibility"

which I blamed the coach, management, and to lesser extent Kobe's stubbornness in this thread(as naturally a competitive athlete like Kobe will not sit himself) what action of responsibility should have been taken by Grover and others? If it wasn't to lessen his minutes, what actions could they have administered to Kobe? Earlier in the season when Kobe was injured and sat a couple games he said he could have played but he and the Lakers were exercising caution. Welp they should have done the same in the game against the Warriors in which he had 2 stunts go terribly wrong.

Grover mentioned "Bone Spurs" well if an achilles injury can occur possibly from bone spurs, then the more Kobe plays, the better chance he has at aggravating any part of his body near the region of spurs. I think Deron was playing with some in his ankle this year.....guess what the Nets sat him some games so he could receive a series of shots in his ankle. Deron has never looked better. Like I mentioned in a previous post.....Kobe should have been taken out if for nothing else to administer some type of quick therapy to his ankle, even if all that Vitti did was provide a 5-10min massage and a total retape job.