Nalod wrote:

CashMoney wrote:Jordan is the G.O.A.T. Lebron is hands down the best player of this era but is not close to MJ. Defense was actually played in MJ's day..you know when a player tried to go down the lane and was body slammed as opposed to the let me get of your way defense of today.

For all the scoring MJ did in his day he was also a lock down defender. Many people forget that the man won Defensive Player of the Year. The dude had a desire to win like no other and also played when there were monster in the middle.

To me if Lebron plays in MJ's era, Lebron is still a great player but not as good. MJ playing in todays NBA?

flip it around, if lebron at 6-8 260 played then don't you think he could stop players too? He is so quick and a pretty good defender.

Put him at the point who could stop him? MJ would be small next to him. He would get handled by Lebron.

Put him on the bulls I think he does pretty well.

its all hypothetical.

Yeah he could stop players but he hasn't won defensive player of the year yet. Why not put him at point now? Because he's a SF!

Yeah he would have done pretty well with the Bulls but not at SF. Spot was taken.

MJ would get handled by Lebron? Bron can't can't stop Melo yet he could stop MJ?

Bron handling MJ!?ROFL!!!! Bron wouldn't have been able to handle Bird, Dominique, Pippen, Dantley, English, Worthey or Mullen.

LBJ is the best in the game today but that's about it.

You can only compare LeBron and MJ when LeBron finishes, then we can look at both of them for their work and decide who is the Ultimate Champion of the Universe

STATMELO wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

Nalod wrote:

CashMoney wrote:Jordan is the G.O.A.T. Lebron is hands down the best player of this era but is not close to MJ. Defense was actually played in MJ's day..you know when a player tried to go down the lane and was body slammed as opposed to the let me get of your way defense of today.

For all the scoring MJ did in his day he was also a lock down defender. Many people forget that the man won Defensive Player of the Year. The dude had a desire to win like no other and also played when there were monster in the middle.

To me if Lebron plays in MJ's era, Lebron is still a great player but not as good. MJ playing in todays NBA?

flip it around, if lebron at 6-8 260 played then don't you think he could stop players too? He is so quick and a pretty good defender.

Put him at the point who could stop him? MJ would be small next to him. He would get handled by Lebron.

Put him on the bulls I think he does pretty well.

its all hypothetical.

Yeah he could stop players but he hasn't won defensive player of the year yet. Why not put him at point now? Because he's a SF!

Yeah he would have done pretty well with the Bulls but not at SF. Spot was taken.

MJ would get handled by Lebron? Bron can't can't stop Melo yet he could stop MJ?

Bron handling MJ!?ROFL!!!! Bron wouldn't have been able to handle Bird, Dominique, Pippen, Dantley, English, Worthey or Mullen.

LBJ is the best in the game today but that's about it.

Michael would get his against LeBron. Michael could score against anyone no matter how good of a defender that person was. Anyway LeBron can stop Melo, Melo averages 23.8 points on 43% shooting against James.

Melo for his career has averaged 24.9 points on 45% shooting. Lebron holding him to 23.8 on 43% shooting really doesn't say much about Lebron's D.

STATMELO wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

JamesLin wrote:Jordan:

1. Jordan won championships, even once when he's hella sick
2. Jordan worked well with someone he doesn't get along, Scottie Pippen
3. Jordan stiffed us Knicks all these years when we were dominating

LeBron:

1. Didn't come to Knicks simply to avoid tabloids exploiting his allegedly sexually liberated ugly mom.
2. Got his SAG card acting on this one hour vagina monologue called 'The Decision'.
3. Ditched the team that drafted him out right and send the city downward spiral for years.

Uhm.. yeah.. LeBron > Jordan and the world's coming to an end. I hate Jordan for obvious (Knicks) reasons btw, just in case someone thinks I'm all about Jordan.

Wow. At some point in time, we can agree with just about anyone.
I would add the word "flop" to the discussion, and see where it goes.
If Lebron had managed to drag the nobodies in Cleveland to a chip, you LeQ lovers would have something to talk about. Until then, the sample sizes don't even come close to being in a discussion.
There is really no comparison at this point.
MJ transcended sport.
LeQ is the manchild who transcends himself by "quitting in a playoff series".

Please tell me when MJ quit in the playoffs.

Please don't tell me about how MJ had Pippen. We talkin about Pippen?

These threads just never get old. martin, is it possible to get a "Group like threads together" function? I promise to click on some of these ad banners...

The HD digital present always tops out the fuzzy video tape.

Russell has 11 rings. ELEVEN RINGS IN 13 YEARS. The man won every game 7 he played in. Every single one. Russ played with Tom Heinsohn and the Jones brothers. Who I'm very sure would have made people forget about Bob Petit and Jerry Logo had they played without Russell.

Russ and MJ would tear your heart out and shove it down your dead dog's throat (after they had killed it) to win.

Lebron might postpone a meeting with his venture capital group, depending on market conditions.

LeBron didn't quit LMAO, the Cavaliers as a whole played like crap. Look at the stats of Jamison and Mo Williams in the 10 ECSF. James was left on his own against the unbelievable defense of the Celtics.

And you were expecting the Cavs to play like what? Everyone on the planet was asking questions about that game 5 against the Celtics, but you, apparently. He took one shot in the entire 1st half, and his only answer to any questions has been "That's corny."

Now tell me some stories about how LeQ doesn't flop, either. Than we can both LMAO.

Steroids? WTF? The last time I checked, being overly muscled never helped Durant, Dirk, Bird, Magic, Russell, Hakeem...sheehit, even Wilt spent much of the height of his pro career looking like a walking stick. Basketball at the highest level is about being flexible and freaky fast. Or just large and one-dimensional like Shaq. Is anybody really thinking "Shaq-a-rhoid"?
Clyde, from "Nobody Calls me Walt Anymore" [roughly quoted]: "The key is keeping your muscles flexible. I got to the point where I could dead lift 300lbs in college, but I always stretched my muscles out after a workout. These guys with huge muscles can bench 350, but they can't throw a basketball 10 feet." You'd have a better discussion talking about steroids with people like David Robinson, Artis Gilmore, etc. Did MJ ever look puffy to you? Was he using HGH to recover from injuries faster? Is that possibly what made him shoot all those threes in Portland? Has Lebron been taking rhoids since he was 16? This is pointless.

Chips count. You play the game to win, not amass records. Unless you're George McGinnis.

Russell did stop Wilt; Wilt would win the stat battles and lose the games. Over and over and over. It's embarrassing to look back at it after awhile.

Basketball. like all sports, is about winning.

Is someone going to talk about the flopping? Or is that okay 'cuz everyone's doing it?

Nalod wrote:If michael lost a series, and he sucked in it, would it tarnish his 6 rings?

Was there a series in the Bulls rise BEFORE then reached the finals by which his failed to elevate the team?

Of course there was. The fact it never happaned in the finals keeps the legend complete.

I think all points made are pretty good except those about Lebron using "HGH". Michael was in his prime in the golden age of Roids and given his drive I would not be suprised if he did. If there is subjective elements to the legend I would like to know why Mike took nearly two years off? I don't think hitting a baseball and making "SpaceJam" really is the truth. There was something else.

Does it matter? No! I don't think anyone discounts what Jordan has done on the court and his career is one for the ages.

If Chips count then Russell is the greatest of all time. Jordan second.

If pure domenence matters, Wilt was the man, then perhaps Kareem. YOu could not stop them.

If you looking at skill set and tools Lebron is a better basketball player. Bigger,faster, stronger, facilitator and shooting %. Inside game and out at age 28 Lebron is better.

But thus far one could conclude that Mike was more a "winner"!

if he lost a series he probably wouldn't have 6 rings... the fact is he won 6 rings and never lost in the finals.. This is what MJ said that seperated him from the rest.. can't argue with that..

check out this little article.. makes some sense of things..

jrodmc wrote:The problem is, MJ never sucked in a series. Any series.
If you go back and look, his worst playoff appearance is Game 1 Orlando in '95 (which the Bulls lost), and he still led his team in scoring. And he's typical lights out the rest of that series, too. Quitting is not an option. Even when you're playing with Dave Corzine against Shaq.

Steroids? WTF? The last time I checked, being overly muscled never helped Durant, Dirk, Bird, Magic, Russell, Hakeem...sheehit, even Wilt spent much of the height of his pro career looking like a walking stick. Basketball at the highest level is about being flexible and freaky fast. Or just large and one-dimensional like Shaq. Is anybody really thinking "Shaq-a-rhoid"?
Clyde, from "Nobody Calls me Walt Anymore" [roughly quoted]: "The key is keeping your muscles flexible. I got to the point where I could dead lift 300lbs in college, but I always stretched my muscles out after a workout. These guys with huge muscles can bench 350, but they can't throw a basketball 10 feet." You'd have a better discussion talking about steroids with people like David Robinson, Artis Gilmore, etc. Did MJ ever look puffy to you? Was he using HGH to recover from injuries faster? Is that possibly what made him shoot all those threes in Portland? Has Lebron been taking rhoids since he was 16? This is pointless.

Chips count. You play the game to win, not amass records. Unless you're George McGinnis.

Russell did stop Wilt; Wilt would win the stat battles and lose the games. Over and over and over. It's embarrassing to look back at it after awhile.

Basketball. like all sports, is about winning.

Is someone going to talk about the flopping? Or is that okay 'cuz everyone's doing it?

Wait, mike played 15 years and played in 6 finals.

Made the playoffs 13 times. What happend the other 7 years?
If he didn't make the finals, then he succeeded?

CashMoney wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:The problem is, MJ never sucked in a series. Any series.
If you go back and look, his worst playoff appearance is Game 1 Orlando in '95 (which the Bulls lost), and he still led his team in scoring. And he's typical lights out the rest of that series, too. Quitting is not an option. Even when you're playing with Dave Corzine against Shaq.

Steroids? WTF? The last time I checked, being overly muscled never helped Durant, Dirk, Bird, Magic, Russell, Hakeem...sheehit, even Wilt spent much of the height of his pro career looking like a walking stick. Basketball at the highest level is about being flexible and freaky fast. Or just large and one-dimensional like Shaq. Is anybody really thinking "Shaq-a-rhoid"?
Clyde, from "Nobody Calls me Walt Anymore" [roughly quoted]: "The key is keeping your muscles flexible. I got to the point where I could dead lift 300lbs in college, but I always stretched my muscles out after a workout. These guys with huge muscles can bench 350, but they can't throw a basketball 10 feet." You'd have a better discussion talking about steroids with people like David Robinson, Artis Gilmore, etc. Did MJ ever look puffy to you? Was he using HGH to recover from injuries faster? Is that possibly what made him shoot all those threes in Portland? Has Lebron been taking rhoids since he was 16? This is pointless.

Chips count. You play the game to win, not amass records. Unless you're George McGinnis.

Russell did stop Wilt; Wilt would win the stat battles and lose the games. Over and over and over. It's embarrassing to look back at it after awhile.

Basketball. like all sports, is about winning.

Is someone going to talk about the flopping? Or is that okay 'cuz everyone's doing it?

Wait, mike played 15 years and played in 6 finals.

Made the playoffs 13 times. What happend the other 7 years?
If he didn't make the finals, then he succeeded?

The key question is who did the Bulls lose to in those playoff series?

Rookie year lost the Bucks
Celtics (nba champions)
Celtics (lost finals)
Pistons (lost finals)
Pistons (nba champions)
Pistons (nba champions)
Magic (MJ played 17 regular season games that year Magic lost in the finals)

6 of those 7 years that MJ didn't go to the final his team lost to a team that went to the finals with the exception of his rookie year.

No doubt that Lebron is the best of this generation but he's not even close to MJ.

Not sure that really supports your subjective conclusion.

Nalod wrote:

Oak said "Jordan may have had best 10-year run of any athlete"...........

I agree.

That does not make him a better basketball player than jordan. Im talking 28 year olds.

Jordan had a great career, might be the best basketball career.

But Lebron is a better player. Bigger, taller, faster,................

From http://www.basketballreference.com

Jordan 6-6 195
Lebron 6-8 240
Oakley 6-8 225
K.Malone 6-9-250

I think they all got bigger no doubt. I took it from the same database.

But in the NBA size matter and Lebron is a freaking monster

The question can't be answered until Lebron retires. It's difficult to compare players from different era's let alone 2 players from different eras who play different positions.

CashMoney wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:The problem is, MJ never sucked in a series. Any series.
If you go back and look, his worst playoff appearance is Game 1 Orlando in '95 (which the Bulls lost), and he still led his team in scoring. And he's typical lights out the rest of that series, too. Quitting is not an option. Even when you're playing with Dave Corzine against Shaq.

Steroids? WTF? The last time I checked, being overly muscled never helped Durant, Dirk, Bird, Magic, Russell, Hakeem...sheehit, even Wilt spent much of the height of his pro career looking like a walking stick. Basketball at the highest level is about being flexible and freaky fast. Or just large and one-dimensional like Shaq. Is anybody really thinking "Shaq-a-rhoid"?
Clyde, from "Nobody Calls me Walt Anymore" [roughly quoted]: "The key is keeping your muscles flexible. I got to the point where I could dead lift 300lbs in college, but I always stretched my muscles out after a workout. These guys with huge muscles can bench 350, but they can't throw a basketball 10 feet." You'd have a better discussion talking about steroids with people like David Robinson, Artis Gilmore, etc. Did MJ ever look puffy to you? Was he using HGH to recover from injuries faster? Is that possibly what made him shoot all those threes in Portland? Has Lebron been taking rhoids since he was 16? This is pointless.

Chips count. You play the game to win, not amass records. Unless you're George McGinnis.

Russell did stop Wilt; Wilt would win the stat battles and lose the games. Over and over and over. It's embarrassing to look back at it after awhile.

Basketball. like all sports, is about winning.

Is someone going to talk about the flopping? Or is that okay 'cuz everyone's doing it?

Wait, mike played 15 years and played in 6 finals.

Made the playoffs 13 times. What happend the other 7 years?
If he didn't make the finals, then he succeeded?

The key question is who did the Bulls lose to in those playoff series?

Rookie year lost the Bucks
Celtics (nba champions)
Celtics (lost finals)
Pistons (lost finals)
Pistons (nba champions)
Pistons (nba champions)
Magic (MJ played 17 regular season games that year Magic lost in the finals)

6 of those 7 years that MJ didn't go to the final his team lost to a team that went to the finals with the exception of his rookie year.

No doubt that Lebron is the best of this generation but he's not even close to MJ.

Other MJ Success points (added in for redundancy):
1) MJ didn't flop
2) MJ didn't quit

Nalod wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Oak said "Jordan may have had best 10-year run of any athlete"...........

I agree.

That does not make him a better basketball player than jordan. Im talking 28 year olds.

Jordan had a great career, might be the best basketball career.

But Lebron is a better player. Bigger, taller, faster,................

From http://www.basketballreference.com

Jordan 6-6 195
Lebron 6-8 240
Oakley 6-8 225
K.Malone 6-9-250

I think they all got bigger no doubt. I took it from the same database.

But in the NBA size matter and Lebron is a freaking monster

The question can't be answered until Lebron retires. It's difficult to compare players from different era's let alone 2 players from different eras who play different positions.

Again, your comparing careers.

Can one player be better yet have a lessor career for all the subjective reasons we can discuss?

Jordan was a better player than Russell. JOrdan as a marquee name changed sports and was as big a star as Muhammad Ali, maybe bigger! But Russell had a better career. Wilt was a better player then Russell and statistically was the most dominant player in any era! DId he have a better career then Jordan?

So the arguement by some not about career and "winning", its just who is the better player. If winning is the first and formost then Jordan/Russell are the tops.

Funny, when we look at baseball players and the "G.O.A.T" we think of Mays, Hank, Babe, Bonds, etc etc......Great players that put up huge numbers. We don't look at the chips they won!

Yogi Berra won 10 of them in 14 years. Of cours it matters what team your on and who your playing with!

Thats my point.

MJ is hands down the better player of the two. If you don't want to compare MJ's career to Lebron up to this point compare their 1st 9 seasons in the league. Jordan is far superior. The only categories Lebron has over MJ is 3pt%, assists by .7 per game and total rebounds per game by .6.

Jordan vs. Lebron 1st 9 season
30 PPG vs 24.9
.516 FG% vs .483
.846 FT% vs. .746
5.9 RPG vs 6.5
5.5 APG vs. 6.2
2.5 Steals per game vs. 1.6
1 block per game vs. .8 per game

Statistics say that Jodran was better. Winning says Jordan was better. Advanced stats says that Jordan was better.

Please tell me in what way is Lebron a better player than Jordan. Everything points to MJ being better unless stats don't mean anything either.