MS wrote:The point is. If everyone believes we didn't give up everything and they gave up a superstar how are we still not as good as them. Because they drafted faried? Really?

How many players do people want on the Knicks roster? Melo, Chandler, Shumpert

How many players do the Nuggets have that people want? Lawson, Gallo, Faried, Iggy, people are interested in Chandler and Moz

We essentially now have all of their trouble makers Smith, Melo, KMart. Logically speaking we should be far and away better, with Chandler in the fold.

Uh ... Lawson - did you miss that part?

And what do Smith and Kmart have to do with this?

Oh ... and Chandler sucks - I'll take Faried

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:They are young and a nice team.

But back to my point, it had little to do with the trade and much to do with their other personnel and drafting (we draft Shump and they draft Faried).

Getting rid of Billups did open up playing time for Lawson which was inevitable.

They could have let Melo walk and been this good or better.

Most denver fans and writers would not agree with that statement..

Ok ... we all can believe what we'd like - including Denver fans. Is Gallo's contract such a steal? How about Chandlers?

Is there any possibilities that they could have done better for the money? I think that they could have.

You're saying Denver is a prime Free Agent destination?

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:They are young and a nice team.

But back to my point, it had little to do with the trade and much to do with their other personnel and drafting (we draft Shump and they draft Faried).

Getting rid of Billups did open up playing time for Lawson which was inevitable.

They could have let Melo walk and been this good or better.

Most denver fans and writers would not agree with that statement..

Ok ... we all can believe what we'd like - including Denver fans. Is Gallo's contract such a steal? How about Chandlers?

Is there any possibilities that they could have done better for the money? I think that they could have.

You're saying Denver is a prime Free Agent destination?

I think that it is as good as Houston or any other middle market team. Denver is a nice place to live.

So are you saying that Gallo at his price is a steal and they could not do better?

There wasn't a huge crop of good free agents 2011 so they would have had to facilitate trades to get better or comparable talent. Gallo is proving to be about his worth at this time. Denver turned down Gallo for Gay you know this right? Chandler has to work his way up to it. At least they are in the very first yr of their new deals.

RUSH TO ASSESS MUCH?

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:Pre trade team at one point was 6 games over .500 before trade rumors became a big distraction to a young team of players not experienced with trades.

The team was improving, it was young, it needed a more experineced post player than Mozgov, and we were running with Felton who was an upgrade to Duhan!

With so many combinations of players, trades, free agents and picks to to in so many directions there is no proof of anything.

The proof is in the record. Denver has done well for itself, so has the kNicks.

Can't imagine why the dead horse won't come back to life?

I did not see the team getting better. They were just getting worse. Amare and Felton were flying backwards and we sold Gallo when his stock was up. I was sad to part with Chandler though and did not like that Moz was thrown in.

let me ask you this.. if that team was flying backwards what the heck is happening to this team now... especially considering the salaries, age and constant injury problems?

We suck! And Amare is even further tanking.

Has nothing to do with the trade. It has to do with how management has blundered for numerous years.

If writers in Denver thought/think that Denver won the trade, I think that most of the country think that there is/was no clear winner.

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:They are young and a nice team.

But back to my point, it had little to do with the trade and much to do with their other personnel and drafting (we draft Shump and they draft Faried).

Getting rid of Billups did open up playing time for Lawson which was inevitable.

They could have let Melo walk and been this good or better.

Most denver fans and writers would not agree with that statement..

Ok ... we all can believe what we'd like - including Denver fans. Is Gallo's contract such a steal? How about Chandlers?

Is there any possibilities that they could have done better for the money? I think that they could have.

You're saying Denver is a prime Free Agent destination?

I think that it is as good as Houston or any other middle market team. Denver is a nice place to live.

So are you saying that Gallo at his price is a steal and they could not do better?

There wasn't a huge crop of good free agents 2011 so they would have had to facilitate trades to get better or comparable talent. Gallo is proving to be about his worth at this time. Denver turned down Gallo for Gay you know this right? Chandler has to work his way up to it. At least they are in the very first yr of their new deals.

RUSH TO ASSESS MUCH?

RUSH TO ASSES MUCH? is that an attempt at cutesy posting? FAIL

Were Gallo's and Gays contracts equal? I imagine you thought this or else you would not have posted that comment (obviously).

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:They are young and a nice team.

But back to my point, it had little to do with the trade and much to do with their other personnel and drafting (we draft Shump and they draft Faried).

Getting rid of Billups did open up playing time for Lawson which was inevitable.

They could have let Melo walk and been this good or better.

Most denver fans and writers would not agree with that statement..

Ok ... we all can believe what we'd like - including Denver fans. Is Gallo's contract such a steal? How about Chandlers?

Is there any possibilities that they could have done better for the money? I think that they could have.

You're saying Denver is a prime Free Agent destination?

I think that it is as good as Houston or any other middle market team. Denver is a nice place to live.

So are you saying that Gallo at his price is a steal and they could not do better?

There wasn't a huge crop of good free agents 2011 so they would have had to facilitate trades to get better or comparable talent. Gallo is proving to be about his worth at this time. Denver turned down Gallo for Gay you know this right? Chandler has to work his way up to it. At least they are in the very first yr of their new deals.

RUSH TO ASSESS MUCH?

RUSH TO ASSES MUCH? is that an attempt at cutesy posting? FAIL

Were Gallo's and Gays contracts equal? I imagine you thought this or else you would not have posted that comment (obviously).

3g already covered the details of gallo and gays contract.. I wish he could find that post...

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:They are young and a nice team.

But back to my point, it had little to do with the trade and much to do with their other personnel and drafting (we draft Shump and they draft Faried).

Getting rid of Billups did open up playing time for Lawson which was inevitable.

They could have let Melo walk and been this good or better.

Most denver fans and writers would not agree with that statement..

Ok ... we all can believe what we'd like - including Denver fans. Is Gallo's contract such a steal? How about Chandlers?

Is there any possibilities that they could have done better for the money? I think that they could have.

like who? they are 5th in the west trailing arguably 3 of the top 4 teams in all of basketball.. Denver wanted young talent to grow with.. they have that in gallo, chandler, lawson, faried, mcgee, etc.... they have that... they didn't want to spend 10 mil on some 28 year old vet who pretty much has peaked... lets say iggy was on the market as a FA, I am sure you would sit here and say he would be a better player to sign than gallo..or chandler.. well guess what, you might have been wrong considering the year iggy is having.... I don't understand the anger.. this kid is having a good year, he is probably the most valuable piece on denver along with faried and lawson.. Actually the fact that Denver has 3 to 4 guys who are so valuable to that team shows how well they put that team together.... they are a TEAM... no matter how much you try to knock that process it looks crazy when you look at what they have done and their record... if you look at things objectively, considering expectations.. Denver has done Great, while the knicks have most of it's fanbase and media in a tizzy right now...

Anger??? HUH? HOW?

Denver has done a great job. Did you even read my posts? You are working too hard to defend them against phantom jabs at gallo that are etched in your mind.

Denver has done such a great job that I believe Melo could have walked and they would have been this good. You just need it to be about Gallo and its not.

Gallo is not as good as Faried and/or Lawson - THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM BAD

Wilson is talented but he was an FA that we were not signing. He has been a huge disappointment mostly due to injuries. Will that change? I hope so - I loved him here.

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:They are young and a nice team.

But back to my point, it had little to do with the trade and much to do with their other personnel and drafting (we draft Shump and they draft Faried).

Getting rid of Billups did open up playing time for Lawson which was inevitable.

They could have let Melo walk and been this good or better.

Most denver fans and writers would not agree with that statement..

Ok ... we all can believe what we'd like - including Denver fans. Is Gallo's contract such a steal? How about Chandlers?

Is there any possibilities that they could have done better for the money? I think that they could have.

like who? they are 5th in the west trailing arguably 3 of the top 4 teams in all of basketball.. Denver wanted young talent to grow with.. they have that in gallo, chandler, lawson, faried, mcgee, etc.... they have that... they didn't want to spend 10 mil on some 28 year old vet who pretty much has peaked... lets say iggy was on the market as a FA, I am sure you would sit here and say he would be a better player to sign than gallo..or chandler.. well guess what, you might have been wrong considering the year iggy is having.... I don't understand the anger.. this kid is having a good year, he is probably the most valuable piece on denver along with faried and lawson.. Actually the fact that Denver has 3 to 4 guys who are so valuable to that team shows how well they put that team together.... they are a TEAM... no matter how much you try to knock that process it looks crazy when you look at what they have done and their record... if you look at things objectively, considering expectations.. Denver has done Great, while the knicks have most of it's fanbase and media in a tizzy right now...

Anger??? HUH? HOW?

Denver has done a great job. Did you even read my posts? You are working too hard to defend them against phantom jabs at gallo that are etched in your mind.

Denver has done such a great job that I believe Melo could have walked and they would have been this good. You just need it to be about Gallo and its not.

Gallo is not as good as Faried and/or Lawson - THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM BAD

Wilson is talented but he was an FA that we were not signing. He has been a huge disappointment mostly due to injuries. Will that change? I hope so - I loved him here.

MS wrote:The point is. If everyone believes we didn't give up everything and they gave up a superstar how are we still not as good as them.

We're actually better than Denver. Not only do we have a better record when compared to Denver, but we've also beat Denver here in 2012-2013. 1-0.
How about we take a look at three seasons before landing Melo.

DEN of 07-08: 50-32.
NYK of 07-08: 23-59.

DEN of 08-09: 54-28.
NYK of 08-09: 32-50.

DEN of 09-10: 53-29.
NYK of 09-10: 29-53.

Gallo was on two of those Knicks teams while Melo was on all three of those Denver teams.

DEN at the time of the trade: 32-24 (4 of those loses were games in which Melo didn't play).
NYK at the time of the trade: 28-26.

lets stop acting as if the Nuggets "just started to win" once they landed Gallo. It's becoming a freaking joke. Melo was the one who rebuilt that franchise around while changing the entire culture of Denver Nuggets basketball, not Gallo. Denver even changed their logo/jersey during Melo's rookie season.

DEN of 11-12: 38-28.
NYK of 11-12: 36-30.

NYK of 12-13: 33-20.
DEN of 12-13: 35-22.

As you can see, Gallo was traded to a team that's won for years on end while Melo was on a team that always did more losing than winning. After the Nuggets got Gallo? They've done more losing than when under Melo when compared to the Knicks doing more winning with Melo than we did with Gallo.

Knicks are a MUCH better team/franchise due to Carmelo Anthony. But, the same can not be said for Gallo. The Nuggets have been a good franchise since the drafting on Melo, and that has nothing to do with Gallo. None whatsoever.

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:Pre trade team at one point was 6 games over .500 before trade rumors became a big distraction to a young team of players not experienced with trades.

The team was improving, it was young, it needed a more experineced post player than Mozgov, and we were running with Felton who was an upgrade to Duhan!

With so many combinations of players, trades, free agents and picks to to in so many directions there is no proof of anything.

The proof is in the record. Denver has done well for itself, so has the kNicks.

Can't imagine why the dead horse won't come back to life?

I did not see the team getting better. They were just getting worse. Amare and Felton were flying backwards and we sold Gallo when his stock was up. I was sad to part with Chandler though and did not like that Moz was thrown in.

let me ask you this.. if that team was flying backwards what the heck is happening to this team now... especially considering the salaries, age and constant injury problems?

We suck! And Amare is even further tanking.

Has nothing to do with the trade. It has to do with how management has blundered for numerous years.

If writers in Denver thought/think that Denver won the trade, I think that most of the country think that there is/was no clear winner.

how can you say this has nothing to do with the trade and then say management has blundered for numerous years.. .well that trade IMO was part of the blunder.. If you can't see the direction this team was going before the trade, the options we had, the talent we had to work with and the flexibility, then honestly, I just can't help you ever see it...

I think that most of the country think that there is/was no clear winner.

I think there was a clear winner... Denver could have lost carmelo for nothing.. instead they obtained pieces and assets that are not only helping now but will prove valuable in the future... the knicks are the one's that had to empty their coffers... I say denver was the clear winner here because they were at risk of losing an asset for nothing, and they came out great.... what more could they have asked for?

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

MS wrote:If Carmelo Anthony is such a great player and the superstar everyone believes he is, then why aren't the Knicks a much better team than the Nuggets?

2013
Knicks 33-20
Nuggets 35-22

2012
Knicks 36-30
Nuggets 38-28

That's all you really have to look at. Where the Knicks a great team before the trade? No. Are they a great team after the trade? NO.

Players aside, the Knicks future is non existent. We have no youth outside of Shumpert, traded every pick we have ever acquired and signed is aging or useless.

Do you think we beat Denver in the Playoffs, I am going to say it's doubtful. Would the Rockets beat us in the playoffs the probability is high. We don't do well in the half court or on the break. The East is a weak conference and yes we have the 3 seed, but that could change very quickly. This team, this franchise never deserves the benefit of the doubt. One playoff win, zero mental toughness and excuses, is NY Knick Basketball. Selfless wins games. Selfish is what this team has become.

Denver is where they are (or remained) because of coming out of Lawson and the drafting of Faried.

No spin needed.

Trading Felt-trash for Miller was pretty pretty good too.

More generally, they are where they are because they picked the right players to build with.
I doubt they would trade Gallo and Lawson for Melo right now. Or Gallo and Faried for Melo.

Maybe they wouldn't but neither would the Knicks (or most other teams). Denver would not make the trade because of previous history.

Also, you are not comparing apples to apples based on salary.

Did Denver pick the "right" players to build around? Time will tell.

They're a young group. They're most likely only going to get better.

Yeah, maybe they'll go back to playing .600 basketball every season like they did when they had Melo. I'd bet they even go to the WCF again, just like they did when they had Melo.

If only every team had Gallo and Lawson to build around!

Time will tell.

Enjoy those Nugget games!

Wait, you're actually bragging about the playoff track record of the guy with the worst playoff winning percentage in decades?

No I'm saying .600 ball and the WCF is better than .500 ball and 1st round only so far. No bragging involved. See how that works?