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NYKBocker
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11/29/2012 11:09 AM

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I thought it was 90% mental and the other half is physical? Or does it only apply in baseball?

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tkf
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11/29/2012 11:31 AM

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ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
3G4G wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
fishmike wrote:
fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....
still waiting... just curious
Didn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?

He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.
Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.

Marbury left early to New Jersey
Googs injured his knees
Death of Malik Sealy
Minnesota was stripped of 1rst rounders for 5yrs straight I believe

Not really comparable to Melo as Denver had measure of stability

not sure why people keep bringing up kobe, now Garnett.. jeez, these are not good comparisons to help an argument.. Does Garnett have a ring? Yes, was Garnett a MVP? yes, was he one of the top defensive players in the league for years.. yes.. .Ok... not sure why his name comes up... Fans feel melo never had help.. well hey, it is an old excuse, and no matter how many facts you bring up, they will just avoid the facts and bring up another player greater than him as comparison.. kind of an odd strategy to defend and argument....
one poster in this thread said this is a bottom line business... KG has a ring.. bottom line.. carmelo doesn't........ bottom line..
It's a legit comparison.
Besides awards, Kobe's career numbers and Melo's are very similiar. 25 pts/gm on 45% FG.
Career wise, KG and Melo shared the same career path. KG eliminated in 7 years straight in the 1st round, before he got help.
Pretty simple comparison.
besides MANY awards, and Many rings, their numbers are very similar... but then again they are not.. when we take kobe's best seasons and carmelo's best, it is not even close.... plus kobe's first two years in the league when he came off the bench pretty much skews his numbers a bit.. it is not as close as you think.. and another thing.. some of those awards or acknowledgments like all NBA defensive first team... those tell a story as well.. that kobe was a two way player.. carmelo wasn't...
Career wise, KG and Melo shared the same career path.
again.. not really.
it is not a legit comparison...
I would like to ask you this question and several others.. Before carmelo came to the knicks, did any of you ever think he was on the same level as kobe, lebron, KG, etc? honestly?
Kobe's best years are better than Melo's yes. I acknowledge Kobe's defensive abilities.
When they both enter the Hall of Fame, their career numbers will look very similiar though.
As for KG, did he not get bounced in 7 straight years in the 1st round as the best player on his team?
Or did I just make that up?

a lot of HOF career numbers look the same.. but after so many years, you really have to weigh that differently.. for example, when guys like dominique and jordan play into their 40's and they have a huge dip in numbers, that hurts their average, which is why you pretty much take their best years.. and it is not even close...

Same thing with garnett, sure he got bounced out of the playoffs.. but that does not make carmelo and equal or even close player to garnett... I think the circumstances were a lot different as 3g pointed out, and when garnett came to a team that had some talent, he won a ring.. carmelo has played with talent and hasn't won... end of story there man... as of this point it hasn't happened.. and you can go on to know down guys like billups, camby, kenyon, etc.. but there is proof that when carmelo played with those guys, they had some great years..... at some point the carmelo excuses just run out bro..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF

Bonn1997
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11/29/2012 11:43 AM

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ChuckBuck wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
3G4G wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
fishmike wrote:
fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....
still waiting... just curious
Didn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?

He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.
Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.

Marbury left early to New Jersey
Googs injured his knees
Death of Malik Sealy
Minnesota was stripped of 1rst rounders for 5yrs straight I believe

Not really comparable to Melo as Denver had measure of stability

not sure why people keep bringing up kobe, now Garnett.. jeez, these are not good comparisons to help an argument.. Does Garnett have a ring? Yes, was Garnett a MVP? yes, was he one of the top defensive players in the league for years.. yes.. .Ok... not sure why his name comes up... Fans feel melo never had help.. well hey, it is an old excuse, and no matter how many facts you bring up, they will just avoid the facts and bring up another player greater than him as comparison.. kind of an odd strategy to defend and argument....
one poster in this thread said this is a bottom line business... KG has a ring.. bottom line.. carmelo doesn't........ bottom line..
It's a legit comparison.
Besides awards, Kobe's career numbers and Melo's are very similiar. 25 pts/gm on 45% FG.
Career wise, KG and Melo shared the same career path. KG eliminated in 7 years straight in the 1st round, before he got help.
Pretty simple comparison.

Scoring efficiency: Small Kobe advantage
Assist:turnover ratio: Huge advantage Kobe
Rebounding: even or small advantage for Kobe (when position-adjusted)
Steals: advantage Kobe
Blocks: even
When you combine all these small to medium sized advantages for Kobe, you end up with a big overall advantage for him. Hence, his win shares and wins produced are much better.
Kobe has a slight edge overall due to his defense and the benefit of playing with dominant big men.

Is that a reply to me? It doesn't look like you were replying to any of the content I posted.

ChuckBuck
Posts: 28851
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11/29/2012 12:03 PM

Reply with quote

tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
3G4G wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
fishmike wrote:
fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....
still waiting... just curious
Didn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?

He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.
Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.

Marbury left early to New Jersey
Googs injured his knees
Death of Malik Sealy
Minnesota was stripped of 1rst rounders for 5yrs straight I believe

Not really comparable to Melo as Denver had measure of stability

not sure why people keep bringing up kobe, now Garnett.. jeez, these are not good comparisons to help an argument.. Does Garnett have a ring? Yes, was Garnett a MVP? yes, was he one of the top defensive players in the league for years.. yes.. .Ok... not sure why his name comes up... Fans feel melo never had help.. well hey, it is an old excuse, and no matter how many facts you bring up, they will just avoid the facts and bring up another player greater than him as comparison.. kind of an odd strategy to defend and argument....
one poster in this thread said this is a bottom line business... KG has a ring.. bottom line.. carmelo doesn't........ bottom line..
It's a legit comparison.
Besides awards, Kobe's career numbers and Melo's are very similiar. 25 pts/gm on 45% FG.
Career wise, KG and Melo shared the same career path. KG eliminated in 7 years straight in the 1st round, before he got help.
Pretty simple comparison.
besides MANY awards, and Many rings, their numbers are very similar... but then again they are not.. when we take kobe's best seasons and carmelo's best, it is not even close.... plus kobe's first two years in the league when he came off the bench pretty much skews his numbers a bit.. it is not as close as you think.. and another thing.. some of those awards or acknowledgments like all NBA defensive first team... those tell a story as well.. that kobe was a two way player.. carmelo wasn't...
Career wise, KG and Melo shared the same career path.
again.. not really.
it is not a legit comparison...
I would like to ask you this question and several others.. Before carmelo came to the knicks, did any of you ever think he was on the same level as kobe, lebron, KG, etc? honestly?
Kobe's best years are better than Melo's yes. I acknowledge Kobe's defensive abilities.
When they both enter the Hall of Fame, their career numbers will look very similiar though.
As for KG, did he not get bounced in 7 straight years in the 1st round as the best player on his team?
Or did I just make that up?
a lot of HOF career numbers look the same.. but after so many years, you really have to weigh that differently.. for example, when guys like dominique and jordan play into their 40's and they have a huge dip in numbers, that hurts their average, which is why you pretty much take their best years.. and it is not even close...
Same thing with garnett, sure he got bounced out of the playoffs.. but that does not make carmelo and equal or even close player to garnett... I think the circumstances were a lot different as 3g pointed out, and when garnett came to a team that had some talent, he won a ring.. carmelo has played with talent and hasn't won... end of story there man... as of this point it hasn't happened.. and you can go on to know down guys like billups, camby, kenyon, etc.. but there is proof that when carmelo played with those guys, they had some great years..... at some point the carmelo excuses just run out bro..

What are KG's excuses?

playa2
Posts: 34922
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Member: #407

11/29/2012 12:03 PM

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NYKBocker wrote:I thought it was 90% mental and the other half is physical? Or does it only apply in baseball?

Everybody who gets to the pro's has the physical tools (skillz) or they wouldn't be there, it's the mental approach and preparation that's makes the difference.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.

ChuckBuck
Posts: 28851
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11/29/2012 12:07 PM

Reply with quote

Bonn1997 wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
3G4G wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
fishmike wrote:
fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....
still waiting... just curious
Didn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?

He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.
Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.

Marbury left early to New Jersey
Googs injured his knees
Death of Malik Sealy
Minnesota was stripped of 1rst rounders for 5yrs straight I believe

Not really comparable to Melo as Denver had measure of stability

not sure why people keep bringing up kobe, now Garnett.. jeez, these are not good comparisons to help an argument.. Does Garnett have a ring? Yes, was Garnett a MVP? yes, was he one of the top defensive players in the league for years.. yes.. .Ok... not sure why his name comes up... Fans feel melo never had help.. well hey, it is an old excuse, and no matter how many facts you bring up, they will just avoid the facts and bring up another player greater than him as comparison.. kind of an odd strategy to defend and argument....
one poster in this thread said this is a bottom line business... KG has a ring.. bottom line.. carmelo doesn't........ bottom line..
It's a legit comparison.
Besides awards, Kobe's career numbers and Melo's are very similiar. 25 pts/gm on 45% FG.
Career wise, KG and Melo shared the same career path. KG eliminated in 7 years straight in the 1st round, before he got help.
Pretty simple comparison.

Scoring efficiency: Small Kobe advantage
Assist:turnover ratio: Huge advantage Kobe
Rebounding: even or small advantage for Kobe (when position-adjusted)
Steals: advantage Kobe
Blocks: even
When you combine all these small to medium sized advantages for Kobe, you end up with a big overall advantage for him. Hence, his win shares and wins produced are much better.
Kobe has a slight edge overall due to his defense and the benefit of playing with dominant big men.

Is that a reply to me? It doesn't look like you were replying to any of the content I posted.

Kobe has had many benefits to his career. He's a great player, don't get me wrong, but look at his teams. Shaq, Phil Jackson, Bynum/Gasol/Odom. Alot of his "wins" and great numbers are attributed to them.

Nalod
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11/29/2012 2:52 PM

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OMG, this arguement spilled over into another thread?? Ouch!

Can't put Kobe in same catagory as Melo in any way or fashion.

Stats alone don't tell the story.

In the arguement of all time greats there are three tiers of players:

The gods: Wilt, Kareem, Mikan, Jordan, Russell, Oscar, West, Shaq, BIrd, Magic.......

If Oscar and West are on that list, then so must Kobe.......

These are guys that dominated their era on the Stat sheet and have rings to look at when they open their Safe's.

The second tier are many great players and the list is very long! Guys like Haveleck, Elgin Baylor, Earl the Pearl. Willis,Nash, Clyde, Mchale, Drexler, Walton, Domonique Wilkens, Drexler, Stockton and Malone, Barkley, Ewing, Elvin Hayes, Hakeem, Unseld, David Robinson, Pippen.....ETC ETC

These guys were the top all stars of there era. MVPs! Leading scorers! Many trips to playoffs!

Lebron will be a god. He is racking up MVP's and has bling. He carried the cavs to the Finals. Been to three finals now. Wilt only has two rings. Oscar one and west just one. Those two dominated the era and redefined the game. Oscar was with Kareem in Milwaukee. Oscar was on some really bad teams.

If Ewing had more help would he be a god? Did Kobe become a god because he was on some really good teams?

IM not saying Kobe on that list puts him equal to any other on it but he is closer to Jordan than anyone I can think of. Kobe compared to West and Oscar is deserving in my opininon.

I can't keep Kobe off the god list and sure as hell can't put Melo on it. I can make a second tier god list with Kobe and the likes just Willis (ROY, MVP, 2 rings), The admiral (MVP, 2 rings), West, Oscar, Unseld, Walton, Clyde and leave the one ring non MVP multiple all stars in with the greats that don't.

What ever the list and how ever one has to rank, when you line up who Kobe belongs with, no way Melo is on that tier. Will always be a rung or two belong until he gives us an MVP, Scoring title, DPOY, AND some bling!!!!!

My take, if there are rankings there are the "Gods", the MVP-Bling guys, then the all time non MVP non bling guys.

Melo is at very best a third tier guy. Thats not a slight by the way. He is a David Thompson-Big Dogg-Wikens-Baylor(I demote him to 3rd tier)-Dantley-Aquire(prime)-

CashMoney
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11/29/2012 3:56 PM

Reply with quote

tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
3G4G wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
fishmike wrote:
fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....
still waiting... just curious
Didn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?

He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.
Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.

Marbury left early to New Jersey
Googs injured his knees
Death of Malik Sealy
Minnesota was stripped of 1rst rounders for 5yrs straight I believe

Not really comparable to Melo as Denver had measure of stability

not sure why people keep bringing up kobe, now Garnett.. jeez, these are not good comparisons to help an argument.. Does Garnett have a ring? Yes, was Garnett a MVP? yes, was he one of the top defensive players in the league for years.. yes.. .Ok... not sure why his name comes up... Fans feel melo never had help.. well hey, it is an old excuse, and no matter how many facts you bring up, they will just avoid the facts and bring up another player greater than him as comparison.. kind of an odd strategy to defend and argument....
one poster in this thread said this is a bottom line business... KG has a ring.. bottom line.. carmelo doesn't........ bottom line..
It's a legit comparison.
Besides awards, Kobe's career numbers and Melo's are very similiar. 25 pts/gm on 45% FG.
Career wise, KG and Melo shared the same career path. KG eliminated in 7 years straight in the 1st round, before he got help.
Pretty simple comparison.
besides MANY awards, and Many rings, their numbers are very similar... but then again they are not.. when we take kobe's best seasons and carmelo's best, it is not even close.... plus kobe's first two years in the league when he came off the bench pretty much skews his numbers a bit.. it is not as close as you think.. and another thing.. some of those awards or acknowledgments like all NBA defensive first team... those tell a story as well.. that kobe was a two way player.. carmelo wasn't...
Career wise, KG and Melo shared the same career path.
again.. not really.
it is not a legit comparison...
I would like to ask you this question and several others.. Before carmelo came to the knicks, did any of you ever think he was on the same level as kobe, lebron, KG, etc? honestly?
Kobe's best years are better than Melo's yes. I acknowledge Kobe's defensive abilities.
When they both enter the Hall of Fame, their career numbers will look very similiar though.
As for KG, did he not get bounced in 7 straight years in the 1st round as the best player on his team?
Or did I just make that up?
a lot of HOF career numbers look the same.. but after so many years, you really have to weigh that differently.. for example, when guys like dominique and jordan play into their 40's and they have a huge dip in numbers, that hurts their average, which is why you pretty much take their best years.. and it is not even close...
Same thing with garnett, sure he got bounced out of the playoffs.. but that does not make carmelo and equal or even close player to garnett... I think the circumstances were a lot different as 3g pointed out, and when garnett came to a team that had some talent, he won a ring.. carmelo has played with talent and hasn't won... end of story there man... as of this point it hasn't happened.. and you can go on to know down guys like billups, camby, kenyon, etc.. but there is proof that when carmelo played with those guys, they had some great years..... at some point the carmelo excuses just run out bro..

Garnett came to a team with SOME talent? Yeah 2 HOF'ers and an up and coming PG who may turn out to be a HOF'er himself.

Regarldess I really don't care about 1st, 2nd, 3rd tier B.S. I'm happy that Melo is a Knick. However, should we win a title during Melo's run here in NYC does that elevate him to another tier?

Blue & Orange 4 Life!

JrZyHuStLa
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11/29/2012 4:00 PM

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Don't make me create the "Carmelo Anthony is a Future Hall of Famer" thread.

Beause I'll give you plenty of reasons why.

fishmike
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11/29/2012 5:40 PM

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JrZyHuStLa wrote:Don't make me create the "Carmelo Anthony is a Future Hall of Famer" thread.
Beause I'll give you plenty of reasons why.

he's this generations dominique wilkins

He probably will make hte HOF. I would rather have a guy who knows how to win. MElo hasnt figured that out yet. Woody is working on surrounding him with 4 PGs to ensure can get him the ball where he likes it

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs

JrZyHuStLa
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11/29/2012 5:48 PM LAST EDITED: 11/29/2012 5:48 PM

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fishmike wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:Don't make me create the "Carmelo Anthony is a Future Hall of Famer" thread.
Beause I'll give you plenty of reasons why.
he's this generations dominique wilkins
He probably will make hte HOF. I would rather have a guy who knows how to win. MElo hasnt figured that out yet. Woody is working on surrounding him with 4 PGs to ensure can get him the ball where he likes it

I'd take a guy who knows how to win as well. But when you go over some of the names that have worn a Knicks jersey sine Ewing left, having a future hall of famer on a team that can get far in the postseason doesn't sound all that bad.