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This is how you win around Melo
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tkf
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11/7/2012  12:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/7/2012  12:06 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
3G4G wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
3G4G wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
3G4G wrote:
fishmike wrote:fail. Swap Melo with Iggy, Gallo, Paul Pierce... any good 3 and we are still 3-0

Im glad we are winning games rather than losing but we spanked Phili who doesnt have their franchise player and the Heat who didnt want to be there.

Let just be realistic


You can insert other players as you know the board is extremely sensitive about certain players...But to go on...


Swap Melo with


Luol Deng we lose nothing - No post game

Rudy Gay we lose nothing - No post game

Joe Johnson we lose nothing - Can't play 4 spot

Thaddeus Young we lose nothing - Can't run pick and roll with Chandler, no handle

Aaron Afflalo we lose nothing - No post game

Klay Thompson we lose nothing - No post game

Ray Allen we lose nothing - No post game

Kawhai Leonard we lose nothing - No post game

Corrected


You realize we still score and shoot the 3ball at a high clip with Melo on the bench and no post player on the court right?

A credit to the 3 headed PG monster. Kidd rubbing off on everyone. Even JR dishes the rock to the open 3 ball shooter!


You can give credit to them..... it only supports my list above

No it doesn't, none of those guys are gameplanned for.

dude, who really game plans for carmelo? come on with that.. jeez...

just remember the eddy curry rule.. he was double teamed a lot not because he was unstoppable, but because teams knew he wouldn't make the pass..

why do you think lebron doesn't get double teamed a lot?

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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y2zipper
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11/7/2012  12:10 PM
Fish is simply pointing out that it's only 3 games. Nice, but doesn't tell me anything about the team in the bigger picture.
ChuckBuck
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11/7/2012  12:16 PM
dude, who really game plans for carmelo? come on with that.. jeez...

Uhm everyone. No Amare, so why not try to take away their number 1 option. Sixers doubled Melo like crazy, guess that wasn't by design right?

just remember the eddy curry rule.. he was double teamed a lot not because he was unstoppable, but because teams knew he wouldn't make the pass..

Eddy Curry is out of the league for a reason. Next.

why do you think lebron doesn't get double teamed a lot?

Because he's lethal with the pass, and has shooters like Battier, Miller, Allen, Jones, Lewis, Chalmers, Cole spacing the floor.

Too easy.

tkf
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11/7/2012  12:21 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
dude, who really game plans for carmelo? come on with that.. jeez...

Uhm everyone. No Amare, so why not try to take away their number 1 option. Sixers doubled Melo like crazy, guess that wasn't by design right?

just remember the eddy curry rule.. he was double teamed a lot not because he was unstoppable, but because teams knew he wouldn't make the pass..

Eddy Curry is out of the league for a reason. Next.

why do you think lebron doesn't get double teamed a lot?

Because he's lethal with the pass, and has shooters like Battier, Miller, Allen, Jones, Lewis, Chalmers, Cole spacing the floor.

Too easy.

not easy, you are basically killing your own argument....don't we have lethal shooters on our team? right? so why are guys still doubling carmelo according to you guys? I think, again, as usual the carmel hype train is in full effect.. the truth is, carmelo doesn't get doubled a lot, teams don't game plan for him as much as you think... and if all of that were true, then I must ask, why such little success in the playoffs?

And eddy curry being out of the league doesn't take away the fact that he was double teamed all of the time, if anything it proves my point.. you guys are overrating the aspect and effect of being double teamed!

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
ChuckBuck
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11/7/2012  12:24 PM
tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
dude, who really game plans for carmelo? come on with that.. jeez...

Uhm everyone. No Amare, so why not try to take away their number 1 option. Sixers doubled Melo like crazy, guess that wasn't by design right?

just remember the eddy curry rule.. he was double teamed a lot not because he was unstoppable, but because teams knew he wouldn't make the pass..

Eddy Curry is out of the league for a reason. Next.

why do you think lebron doesn't get double teamed a lot?

Because he's lethal with the pass, and has shooters like Battier, Miller, Allen, Jones, Lewis, Chalmers, Cole spacing the floor.

Too easy.

not easy, you are basically killing your own argument....don't we have lethal shooters on our team? right? so why are guys still doubling carmelo according to you guys? I think, again, as usual the carmel hype train is in full effect.. the truth is, carmelo doesn't get doubled a lot, teams don't game plan for him as much as you think... and if all of that were true, then I must ask, why such little success in the playoffs?

And eddy curry being out of the league doesn't take away the fact that he was double teamed all of the time, if anything it proves my point.. you guys are overrating the aspect and effect of being double teamed!

Yup, it's all hype...

Guess they just had 2 bodies pretend to guard him:

ramtour420
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11/7/2012  12:26 PM
What are we talking about again? Teams not planning for Melo ? Is this even serious?
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
3G4G
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11/7/2012  12:32 PM
tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
dude, who really game plans for carmelo? come on with that.. jeez...

Uhm everyone. No Amare, so why not try to take away their number 1 option. Sixers doubled Melo like crazy, guess that wasn't by design right?

just remember the eddy curry rule.. he was double teamed a lot not because he was unstoppable, but because teams knew he wouldn't make the pass..

Eddy Curry is out of the league for a reason. Next.

why do you think lebron doesn't get double teamed a lot?

Because he's lethal with the pass, and has shooters like Battier, Miller, Allen, Jones, Lewis, Chalmers, Cole spacing the floor.

Too easy.

not easy, you are basically killing your own argument....don't we have lethal shooters on our team? right? so why are guys still doubling carmelo according to you guys? I think, again, as usual the carmel hype train is in full effect.. the truth is, carmelo doesn't get doubled a lot, teams don't game plan for him as much as you think... and if all of that were true, then I must ask, why such little success in the playoffs?

And eddy curry being out of the league doesn't take away the fact that he was double teamed all of the time, if anything it proves my point.. you guys are overrating the aspect and effect of being double teamed!


True Melo doesn't get doubled a lot. Melo is predominantly a one-on-one player. Teams may put their best defender on him or switch defenders but this doesn't weaken the argument of replacing Melo with other players. Help defense may come after Melo gets past the first defender off the dribble. So what this is the case for many offensive players in the league.

Once again what difference would it make if a player is being game planned for..... if the team proves it can run it's base and be successful at it without it's prize player on the court?

Anji
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11/7/2012  12:37 PM
ramtour420 wrote:What are we talking about again? Teams not planning for Melo ? Is this even serious?

Did read 3g4g list of small forwards??? Do even have to ask??!!! LOL

"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
3G4G
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11/7/2012  12:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/7/2012  12:42 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
dude, who really game plans for carmelo? come on with that.. jeez...

Uhm everyone. No Amare, so why not try to take away their number 1 option. Sixers doubled Melo like crazy, guess that wasn't by design right?

just remember the eddy curry rule.. he was double teamed a lot not because he was unstoppable, but because teams knew he wouldn't make the pass..

Eddy Curry is out of the league for a reason. Next.

why do you think lebron doesn't get double teamed a lot?

Because he's lethal with the pass, and has shooters like Battier, Miller, Allen, Jones, Lewis, Chalmers, Cole spacing the floor.

Too easy.

not easy, you are basically killing your own argument....don't we have lethal shooters on our team? right? so why are guys still doubling carmelo according to you guys? I think, again, as usual the carmel hype train is in full effect.. the truth is, carmelo doesn't get doubled a lot, teams don't game plan for him as much as you think... and if all of that were true, then I must ask, why such little success in the playoffs?

And eddy curry being out of the league doesn't take away the fact that he was double teamed all of the time, if anything it proves my point.. you guys are overrating the aspect and effect of being double teamed!

Yup, it's all hype...

Guess they just had 2 bodies pretend to guard him:


This is fun....




Melo's inauguration speech is going to be a Doosy because "The Melo Coalition" is on some fierceness like never seen before

ChuckBuck
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11/7/2012  12:42 PM
ramtour420 wrote:What are we talking about again? Teams not planning for Melo ? Is this even serious?

Not sure, alot of guys are either in denial or need to get their eyes checked...

tkf
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11/7/2012  12:48 PM
3G4G wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
dude, who really game plans for carmelo? come on with that.. jeez...

Uhm everyone. No Amare, so why not try to take away their number 1 option. Sixers doubled Melo like crazy, guess that wasn't by design right?

just remember the eddy curry rule.. he was double teamed a lot not because he was unstoppable, but because teams knew he wouldn't make the pass..

Eddy Curry is out of the league for a reason. Next.

why do you think lebron doesn't get double teamed a lot?

Because he's lethal with the pass, and has shooters like Battier, Miller, Allen, Jones, Lewis, Chalmers, Cole spacing the floor.

Too easy.

not easy, you are basically killing your own argument....don't we have lethal shooters on our team? right? so why are guys still doubling carmelo according to you guys? I think, again, as usual the carmel hype train is in full effect.. the truth is, carmelo doesn't get doubled a lot, teams don't game plan for him as much as you think... and if all of that were true, then I must ask, why such little success in the playoffs?

And eddy curry being out of the league doesn't take away the fact that he was double teamed all of the time, if anything it proves my point.. you guys are overrating the aspect and effect of being double teamed!

Yup, it's all hype...

Guess they just had 2 bodies pretend to guard him:


This is fun....




Melo's inauguration speech is going to be a Doosy because "The Melo Coalition" is on some fierceness like never seen before

ROFL, you beat me to the pics.. I knew once they posted those pics, they opened the door.

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
ChuckBuck
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11/7/2012  1:00 PM
tkf wrote:
3G4G wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
dude, who really game plans for carmelo? come on with that.. jeez...

Uhm everyone. No Amare, so why not try to take away their number 1 option. Sixers doubled Melo like crazy, guess that wasn't by design right?

just remember the eddy curry rule.. he was double teamed a lot not because he was unstoppable, but because teams knew he wouldn't make the pass..

Eddy Curry is out of the league for a reason. Next.

why do you think lebron doesn't get double teamed a lot?

Because he's lethal with the pass, and has shooters like Battier, Miller, Allen, Jones, Lewis, Chalmers, Cole spacing the floor.

Too easy.

not easy, you are basically killing your own argument....don't we have lethal shooters on our team? right? so why are guys still doubling carmelo according to you guys? I think, again, as usual the carmel hype train is in full effect.. the truth is, carmelo doesn't get doubled a lot, teams don't game plan for him as much as you think... and if all of that were true, then I must ask, why such little success in the playoffs?

And eddy curry being out of the league doesn't take away the fact that he was double teamed all of the time, if anything it proves my point.. you guys are overrating the aspect and effect of being double teamed!

Yup, it's all hype...

Guess they just had 2 bodies pretend to guard him:


This is fun....




Melo's inauguration speech is going to be a Doosy because "The Melo Coalition" is on some fierceness like never seen before

ROFL, you beat me to the pics.. I knew once they posted those pics, they opened the door.

Geez when are those pictures taken? The ones I posted are from this week and clearly shows the double and triple teaming on Carmelo. I see Jason Richardson on the Suns, Stephen Jackson on the Bobcats, Ariza on the Hornets...at least get recent pictures, not Luol Deng's career glamour shots!

jrodmc
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11/7/2012  1:21 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
3G4G wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
dude, who really game plans for carmelo? come on with that.. jeez...

Uhm everyone. No Amare, so why not try to take away their number 1 option. Sixers doubled Melo like crazy, guess that wasn't by design right?

just remember the eddy curry rule.. he was double teamed a lot not because he was unstoppable, but because teams knew he wouldn't make the pass..

Eddy Curry is out of the league for a reason. Next.

why do you think lebron doesn't get double teamed a lot?

Because he's lethal with the pass, and has shooters like Battier, Miller, Allen, Jones, Lewis, Chalmers, Cole spacing the floor.

Too easy.

not easy, you are basically killing your own argument....don't we have lethal shooters on our team? right? so why are guys still doubling carmelo according to you guys? I think, again, as usual the carmel hype train is in full effect.. the truth is, carmelo doesn't get doubled a lot, teams don't game plan for him as much as you think... and if all of that were true, then I must ask, why such little success in the playoffs?

And eddy curry being out of the league doesn't take away the fact that he was double teamed all of the time, if anything it proves my point.. you guys are overrating the aspect and effect of being double teamed!

Yup, it's all hype...

Guess they just had 2 bodies pretend to guard him:


This is fun....




Melo's inauguration speech is going to be a Doosy because "The Melo Coalition" is on some fierceness like never seen before

Geez when are those pictures taken? The ones I posted are from this week and clearly shows the double and triple teaming on Carmelo. I see Jason Richardson on the Suns, Stephen Jackson on the Bobcats, Ariza on the Hornets...at least get recent pictures, not Luol Deng's career glamour shots!

Chuck, please remember that pointless hate has no sense of time.





knicks1248
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11/7/2012  2:56 PM
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:If the 90's knicks ran into the 90's bulls in the 1st rnd, would we say the same about Ewing, they took us out everytime with the exception of jordans retirment yr..

It's an unfortunate event when your playoff position puts you up against a match up you can't match up to..

If we played the injury rattled Magic in the first round last season, we would have beaten them, would you think different about melo not being able to get out of the 1st rnd..I mean the bulls and san an have finish with the best record in the NBA over the last 2 seasons..what have they done with that home court advantage..NOTHING..Match ups are everything in the playoffs..It'sUnfortunate for guys like Melo who encounter bad match ups that make them look like they aren't capable of getting to the next level.

People look back and realize Ewing did most everything he could. He was an MVP candidate. He was all NBA, all defense (maybe 2nd team but it counts). If you want to compare MElo to guys who havent won thats fine. What are his individual accomplishments. Please list.

Im thinking more in the lines of match ups, rather then indidvidule accomplishments

ES
Knixkik
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11/7/2012  2:58 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
3G4G wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
dude, who really game plans for carmelo? come on with that.. jeez...

Uhm everyone. No Amare, so why not try to take away their number 1 option. Sixers doubled Melo like crazy, guess that wasn't by design right?

just remember the eddy curry rule.. he was double teamed a lot not because he was unstoppable, but because teams knew he wouldn't make the pass..

Eddy Curry is out of the league for a reason. Next.

why do you think lebron doesn't get double teamed a lot?

Because he's lethal with the pass, and has shooters like Battier, Miller, Allen, Jones, Lewis, Chalmers, Cole spacing the floor.

Too easy.

not easy, you are basically killing your own argument....don't we have lethal shooters on our team? right? so why are guys still doubling carmelo according to you guys? I think, again, as usual the carmel hype train is in full effect.. the truth is, carmelo doesn't get doubled a lot, teams don't game plan for him as much as you think... and if all of that were true, then I must ask, why such little success in the playoffs?

And eddy curry being out of the league doesn't take away the fact that he was double teamed all of the time, if anything it proves my point.. you guys are overrating the aspect and effect of being double teamed!

Yup, it's all hype...

Guess they just had 2 bodies pretend to guard him:


This is fun....




Melo's inauguration speech is going to be a Doosy because "The Melo Coalition" is on some fierceness like never seen before

ROFL, you beat me to the pics.. I knew once they posted those pics, they opened the door.

Geez when are those pictures taken? The ones I posted are from this week and clearly shows the double and triple teaming on Carmelo. I see Jason Richardson on the Suns, Stephen Jackson on the Bobcats, Ariza on the Hornets...at least get recent pictures, not Luol Deng's career glamour shots!

Haha with the exception of wade and lebron, i see no one in those pics that are even on the same team anymore.

dk7th
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11/7/2012  3:49 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Panos wrote:
fishmike wrote:fail. Swap Melo with Iggy, Gallo, Paul Pierce... any good 3 and we are still 3-0

Im glad we are winning games rather than losing but we spanked Phili who doesnt have their franchise player and the Heat who didnt want to be there.

Let just be realistic

Hey Fishy,
I'm normally with you, your posts are usually a voice of reason around here between the haters and the dreamers, but I have to disagree with you here. This team could not have done what it has over the last 3 games without a dominant scorer. Carmelo has been a huge part of the current run. When he's out, you can see the drop off on the offensive floor. Paul Pierce, maybe. But the other two you mentioned would not have had the offensive juice to give us that firepower.

Melo has become one of the most dangerous scorers in the post area. He draws the defense like few other players can. Teams prepare to defend him, not the other players mentioned above.

100% correct. I could not agree more. So why is he taking 6 threes a game? Because he's LAZY. Same players as always been. Talent is there, but so is the Antoine Walker shot selection.

We are winning because the Knicks share the ball, take care of the ball and are defending great. Melo has certainly been a part of that. I predicted this team would win 50 games. The problem is this formula wont win in the playoffs. Never does.

Take away Melo's 3 and he's shooting 50% and with his rebounding and early commitment to defense he would be playing at an MVP level. Shot selection matters its the weak link in this guys game. Look at his FG%s in the playoffs. He shoots his teams out of games all the time. Heat game is perfect example... totally dominat first qtr and Melo shoots 4-18 the rest of the game. Thats the scoring we ride in the playoffs? There is a reason his teams always lose in the first round.

Look Im happy we are winning, but Phili looked awful, Mia didnt want to play and Melo is the same he always is. We have seen a spirited effort on defense before. His teams usually win about 50 games. Its what happens after that is a reason skeptical folks such as myself hope to see a different blue print. 3 games doesnt erase 10 years of getting **** on by this team!

i see the same frustrating pattern and i don't see lazy, i see a lack of poise, patience, and craftiness. he gets all jacked up-- the broadcasters called them "adrenaline shots"-- with his short-term success and decides to throw his game and the game out the window.

but look we can all agree that he's attacking and finishing better, he is playing some honest defense, and he is making hustle plays... so i give him credit for that. but come playoff time he has got to cut down completely on the adrenaline shots and be prepared to pass out of whatever double teams come his way and every time. dirk did it and look what happened.

no question his shot selection has been his achilles heel, among other things, his entire career. i look at his mediocre TS% as a clear manifestation of this. dude has to not take more than 2 of these 3-pointers a game while driving and getting to the line more. people don't want to admit it but melo's footwork as he tries to get to the basket is not good. jab step is not footwork. taking two "power dribbles" and trying to finish is not footwork either. and i am not talking about back to the basket post stuff either, which frankly he is not bad at. it's the stuff we see with him going iso from 22 feet where his footwork leaves a lot to be desired.

still i admit i am pleased somewhat with his first three games but everything i see with him and this team is through a filter in the form of the question "does melo and does this team play like an ECF team?"

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
ChuckBuck
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11/7/2012  3:53 PM
dk7th wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Panos wrote:
fishmike wrote:fail. Swap Melo with Iggy, Gallo, Paul Pierce... any good 3 and we are still 3-0

Im glad we are winning games rather than losing but we spanked Phili who doesnt have their franchise player and the Heat who didnt want to be there.

Let just be realistic

Hey Fishy,
I'm normally with you, your posts are usually a voice of reason around here between the haters and the dreamers, but I have to disagree with you here. This team could not have done what it has over the last 3 games without a dominant scorer. Carmelo has been a huge part of the current run. When he's out, you can see the drop off on the offensive floor. Paul Pierce, maybe. But the other two you mentioned would not have had the offensive juice to give us that firepower.

Melo has become one of the most dangerous scorers in the post area. He draws the defense like few other players can. Teams prepare to defend him, not the other players mentioned above.

100% correct. I could not agree more. So why is he taking 6 threes a game? Because he's LAZY. Same players as always been. Talent is there, but so is the Antoine Walker shot selection.

We are winning because the Knicks share the ball, take care of the ball and are defending great. Melo has certainly been a part of that. I predicted this team would win 50 games. The problem is this formula wont win in the playoffs. Never does.

Take away Melo's 3 and he's shooting 50% and with his rebounding and early commitment to defense he would be playing at an MVP level. Shot selection matters its the weak link in this guys game. Look at his FG%s in the playoffs. He shoots his teams out of games all the time. Heat game is perfect example... totally dominat first qtr and Melo shoots 4-18 the rest of the game. Thats the scoring we ride in the playoffs? There is a reason his teams always lose in the first round.

Look Im happy we are winning, but Phili looked awful, Mia didnt want to play and Melo is the same he always is. We have seen a spirited effort on defense before. His teams usually win about 50 games. Its what happens after that is a reason skeptical folks such as myself hope to see a different blue print. 3 games doesnt erase 10 years of getting **** on by this team!

i see the same frustrating pattern and i don't see lazy, i see a lack of poise, patience, and craftiness. he gets all jacked up-- the broadcasters called them "adrenaline shots"-- with his short-term success and decides to throw his game and the game out the window.

but look we can all agree that he's attacking and finishing better, he is playing some honest defense, and he is making hustle plays... so i give him credit for that. but come playoff time he has got to cut down completely on the adrenaline shots and be prepared to pass out of whatever double teams come his way and every time. dirk did it and look what happened.

no question his shot selection has been his achilles heel, among other things, his entire career. i look at his mediocre TS% as a clear manifestation of this. dude has to not take more than 2 of these 3-pointers a game while driving and getting to the line more. people don't want to admit it but melo's footwork as he tries to get to the basket is not good. jab step is not footwork. taking two "power dribbles" and trying to finish is not footwork either. and i am not talking about back to the basket post stuff either, which frankly he is not bad at. it's the stuff we see with him going iso from 22 feet where his footwork leaves a lot to be desired.

still i admit i am pleased somewhat with his first three games but everything i see with him and this team is through a filter in the form of the question "does melo and does this team play like an ECF team?"

One game at a time, my man. Wins are all that matters right now.

Let's not worry about the Eastern Conference Finals in Game 4 of the season...

newyorknewyork
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11/7/2012  4:35 PM
tkf wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
tkf wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I don't get the logic that Melo needs to win a championship or we need to rebuild when the guys we traded for him have limited playoff results and the draft picks you want during the rebuilding process have 0 playoff results.

The plan you guys want to follow is not a guranteed championship winner. Look at Denver when they traded Dice for Camby and a lotto pick landing Nene and Skeet. Then landing Melo the following yr making that 3 lotto picks in 2yrs. Then witht there huge cap space signing Kenyon Martin the highest rated free agent of that class. Now according to some of you guys logic Denver threw away 9yrs figuring out that Melo wasn't a franchise championship winning player. Following the same exact plan that you guys want to execute.

Melo needs to win a championship or bust coming from an organization that won its first playoff game in 13yrs last yr.

LET me ask you.. what would be the reason holding onto a soon to be 30 year old carmelo( by that time) who will be making 20+ million a year? Other than hoping and wishing he becomes the star player you envision after 10 years in the league, why hold onto him at that price with what he offers?

Because its better then any alternative that you have brought to the table. Whats the plan if we rebuild and the players we bring in don't get it done. Does that mean that we are going to tear it down and rebuild again and keep doing that until we find a championship team. When are we going to stop being in a transitional period, putting our players in positions to fail, villifying them then kicking them out of NY. When are we going to put our players in a position to succeed, put complimentary players around them and form some type of stability.

So unless you have some proven championship calibre players that are waiting in the wings for the Knicks to build there roster with y don't we follow through and put Melo in a position to succeed, form some stability and see what he is really made of.

No it isn't... understand the key is to win a title, right? so how do you do that with a guy making max money and you can't build a winner with him being the face of the franchise. Most keep saying carmelo played a role as "the other guy" on the olympic team.. well ok, if that is the case then he should be getting paid like an allstar role player.. but.. carmelo is not taking a pay cut to play in NY..

The alternative would be to start building a team with a true franchise talent, or better yet, build a team with the same attributes of this team.. Defense, sharing the ball, but do it with younger players, cheaper salaries and more flexibility to make moves to get that franchise talent...

that is better than the plan of keeping carmelo well into his 30's listening to him tell us how much he is willing to change every year....

Yea its all so easy and simple when your only dealing with hypotheticals. Where is this franchise player comming from? Young players don't stay young players with cheap salaries forever. So what happends if you don't find a franshise player and the young players are now looking for bigger contracts? You stay in purgatory until the franchise player falls in your lap?

If you really want to land a franchise player the #1 route is the draft with a top 5 pick. So if nothing else matters but championships then you need to tank every yr for a top 5 pick until you find one. But then there is the chance that you think you have one so you start to actually build a team with him then you find out he isn't one.

How is it a fact that you can't build a winner with Melo? We also will have a good amount of cap space when Melo is a free agent when he turns 30. So a better plan would be use that cap space to replace Amare with a big time piece that actually compliments Melo's game. Use our 2-3 draft picks that we will have over this span to fill in the rest of the roles with young players gradually finding replacements for Kidd, KT, Sheed, Prigs? And develop Iman Shumpert into a quality 3rd option. Odds are more likley that Melo finds more success in the playoffs then us landing your ideal franchise player thats going to lead us to the promise land.

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Knixkik
Posts: 35470
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
11/7/2012  4:47 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
tkf wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
tkf wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I don't get the logic that Melo needs to win a championship or we need to rebuild when the guys we traded for him have limited playoff results and the draft picks you want during the rebuilding process have 0 playoff results.

The plan you guys want to follow is not a guranteed championship winner. Look at Denver when they traded Dice for Camby and a lotto pick landing Nene and Skeet. Then landing Melo the following yr making that 3 lotto picks in 2yrs. Then witht there huge cap space signing Kenyon Martin the highest rated free agent of that class. Now according to some of you guys logic Denver threw away 9yrs figuring out that Melo wasn't a franchise championship winning player. Following the same exact plan that you guys want to execute.

Melo needs to win a championship or bust coming from an organization that won its first playoff game in 13yrs last yr.

LET me ask you.. what would be the reason holding onto a soon to be 30 year old carmelo( by that time) who will be making 20+ million a year? Other than hoping and wishing he becomes the star player you envision after 10 years in the league, why hold onto him at that price with what he offers?

Because its better then any alternative that you have brought to the table. Whats the plan if we rebuild and the players we bring in don't get it done. Does that mean that we are going to tear it down and rebuild again and keep doing that until we find a championship team. When are we going to stop being in a transitional period, putting our players in positions to fail, villifying them then kicking them out of NY. When are we going to put our players in a position to succeed, put complimentary players around them and form some type of stability.

So unless you have some proven championship calibre players that are waiting in the wings for the Knicks to build there roster with y don't we follow through and put Melo in a position to succeed, form some stability and see what he is really made of.

No it isn't... understand the key is to win a title, right? so how do you do that with a guy making max money and you can't build a winner with him being the face of the franchise. Most keep saying carmelo played a role as "the other guy" on the olympic team.. well ok, if that is the case then he should be getting paid like an allstar role player.. but.. carmelo is not taking a pay cut to play in NY..

The alternative would be to start building a team with a true franchise talent, or better yet, build a team with the same attributes of this team.. Defense, sharing the ball, but do it with younger players, cheaper salaries and more flexibility to make moves to get that franchise talent...

that is better than the plan of keeping carmelo well into his 30's listening to him tell us how much he is willing to change every year....

Yea its all so easy and simple when your only dealing with hypotheticals. Where is this franchise player comming from? Young players don't stay young players with cheap salaries forever. So what happends if you don't find a franshise player and the young players are now looking for bigger contracts? You stay in purgatory until the franchise player falls in your lap?

If you really want to land a franchise player the #1 route is the draft with a top 5 pick. So if nothing else matters but championships then you need to tank every yr for a top 5 pick until you find one. But then there is the chance that you think you have one so you start to actually build a team with him then you find out he isn't one.

How is it a fact that you can't build a winner with Melo? We also will have a good amount of cap space when Melo is a free agent when he turns 30. So a better plan would be use that cap space to replace Amare with a big time piece that actually compliments Melo's game. Use our 2-3 draft picks that we will have over this span to fill in the rest of the roles with young players gradually finding replacements for Kidd, KT, Sheed, Prigs? And develop Iman Shumpert into a quality 3rd option. Odds are more likley that Melo finds more success in the playoffs then us landing your ideal franchise player thats going to lead us to the promise land.

This is my point exactly. It is all hypotheticals. The odds of getting a high draft pick and finding players better than Melo is slim to none. Blowing it up and hoping for the best is not a good alternate plan. I would rather be a playoff team.

ChuckBuck
Posts: 28851
Alba Posts: 11
Joined: 1/3/2012
Member: #3806
USA
11/7/2012  4:57 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
tkf wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
tkf wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I don't get the logic that Melo needs to win a championship or we need to rebuild when the guys we traded for him have limited playoff results and the draft picks you want during the rebuilding process have 0 playoff results.

The plan you guys want to follow is not a guranteed championship winner. Look at Denver when they traded Dice for Camby and a lotto pick landing Nene and Skeet. Then landing Melo the following yr making that 3 lotto picks in 2yrs. Then witht there huge cap space signing Kenyon Martin the highest rated free agent of that class. Now according to some of you guys logic Denver threw away 9yrs figuring out that Melo wasn't a franchise championship winning player. Following the same exact plan that you guys want to execute.

Melo needs to win a championship or bust coming from an organization that won its first playoff game in 13yrs last yr.

LET me ask you.. what would be the reason holding onto a soon to be 30 year old carmelo( by that time) who will be making 20+ million a year? Other than hoping and wishing he becomes the star player you envision after 10 years in the league, why hold onto him at that price with what he offers?

Because its better then any alternative that you have brought to the table. Whats the plan if we rebuild and the players we bring in don't get it done. Does that mean that we are going to tear it down and rebuild again and keep doing that until we find a championship team. When are we going to stop being in a transitional period, putting our players in positions to fail, villifying them then kicking them out of NY. When are we going to put our players in a position to succeed, put complimentary players around them and form some type of stability.

So unless you have some proven championship calibre players that are waiting in the wings for the Knicks to build there roster with y don't we follow through and put Melo in a position to succeed, form some stability and see what he is really made of.

No it isn't... understand the key is to win a title, right? so how do you do that with a guy making max money and you can't build a winner with him being the face of the franchise. Most keep saying carmelo played a role as "the other guy" on the olympic team.. well ok, if that is the case then he should be getting paid like an allstar role player.. but.. carmelo is not taking a pay cut to play in NY..

The alternative would be to start building a team with a true franchise talent, or better yet, build a team with the same attributes of this team.. Defense, sharing the ball, but do it with younger players, cheaper salaries and more flexibility to make moves to get that franchise talent...

that is better than the plan of keeping carmelo well into his 30's listening to him tell us how much he is willing to change every year....

Yea its all so easy and simple when your only dealing with hypotheticals. Where is this franchise player comming from? Young players don't stay young players with cheap salaries forever. So what happends if you don't find a franshise player and the young players are now looking for bigger contracts? You stay in purgatory until the franchise player falls in your lap?

If you really want to land a franchise player the #1 route is the draft with a top 5 pick. So if nothing else matters but championships then you need to tank every yr for a top 5 pick until you find one. But then there is the chance that you think you have one so you start to actually build a team with him then you find out he isn't one.

How is it a fact that you can't build a winner with Melo? We also will have a good amount of cap space when Melo is a free agent when he turns 30. So a better plan would be use that cap space to replace Amare with a big time piece that actually compliments Melo's game. Use our 2-3 draft picks that we will have over this span to fill in the rest of the roles with young players gradually finding replacements for Kidd, KT, Sheed, Prigs? And develop Iman Shumpert into a quality 3rd option. Odds are more likley that Melo finds more success in the playoffs then us landing your ideal franchise player thats going to lead us to the promise land.

+1

This is how you win around Melo

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